Critique my thinking

Critique my thinking

Investor · Fort Wayne, IN · Member since 2012 · 276 posts · 77 votes

I am in the process of wrapping all my mortgages and notes on the properties I own into one. The bank is going to give me a 15 year note fixed at 4.75% interest and it will save me about $30/month and 8 years on the notes I have outstanding then what I am doing currently.

Now obviously I can't foresee the future, but after thinking (not long and hard) my thoughts are why not once these are all paid off then go back to the bank and assuming interest rates are 10% at that point take another loan against the properties pocket some of the money and then use the other to purchase more properties? Again, it's a theory and nothing I have done I just would like great minds to come with comments on what they would do.

I suppose the purpose of this and in general is to use other people's money and keep mine in my bank account lol. So, do you think this is a viable strategy or not? Why?

Also, I guess to put another kink in this discussion I do have access to private investors who are willing loan at between 8-10% interest. How would that affect if it was you if at all? My thoughts are that with my current strategy and the properties I am picking up I am getting them at around 60-75% ARV fix-up included so for me I think that I can get a private investor aboard for 1 year or less give them 8-10% interest and then have the bank go out appraise it and give me a loan for what I owe the private investor for his time in the deal. He's happy because he gets a great return on his money and I'm happy because I got the deal without any out of pocket expenses. Sorry for writing a novel it's my fatal flaw!

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Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
13y

Thanks...

A release fee can get complicated, sorta, as it could be viewed as a weighted average of the various loan to values to the outstanding balance and doing so could mean that to payoff a lesser property could require more than the sale price!

Another way is to use a set ltv to each property as if the note contained several notes, an assigned value to each property, best for you and simple. This is what you need to ask for a written LTV assigned to each property and the outstanding principal reduced as a % of each payment.

Don't know if you can attach a letter to a PM, but if it's not in pdf, be happy to look at your committment letter, fire away...

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  • Real Estate Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2009 · 171 posts · 46 votes
    13y

    You want to pay off the loan on your property early so you can use it as collateral to take out a loan on your property? Not sure what the benefit of that is. Why not just use money you have now and buy additional properties.

    Also, what happens if you sell multiple properties in the portfolio? You pay down the principal but your monthly payments stay the same. You could get into a cash flow problem depending on how much you want to sell.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    13y

    Putting all your properties under one note is like putting all your eggs in one basket, if it's 15 year fixed that doesn't sound right as a portfolioed loan, so, is the rate fixed with future qualifications along the way?

    Do you have a release fee amount for each property so that any one property can be sold or have an insured loss and not effect the entire loan?

    I suppose you have an umbrella policy. Are they servicing with escrows (probably not) so keep an eye on insurance and loss payee assignments.

    You will probably limit your ability to any second mortgage financing with a blanket mortgage, again, the release fee will play on this aspect if necessary.

    Understand that if your relationship changes or any event occurs that invokes the due on sale, it will be a large hammer.

    As to refinancing, look down the road, what are property conditions, hiow is the depreciation working for you, sure you want every property for 15 years?

    You can refi later on and use funds as you mentioned, keeping equity working.

    In the beginning, you might ask if they can provide a "Future Advance Note" allowing future advances to a loan to value in the future as a line of credit and payoff existing obligations at closing.

    As to other financing on other properties that's pretty much on a deal by deal basis, always an option. Understand that private money may not always be available.

    I'm not a fan of putting all I have with any one lender, banks do fail and new holders may not be as accomodating, but that depends on how much you're dumping into one lender too.

    The biggest concern with blanket loans are the terms of release for each property secured!

  • Investor · Fort Wayne, IN · Member since 2012 · 276 posts · 77 votes
    13y

    Bill W. That's a good point I really hadn't thought about if I wanted to sell I guess my thoughts on that are that I am 27 so more than likely I am going to keep these for buy & hold. I guess it would definitely make more sense once they are paid off to borrow only against the property that has the most equity as I am only encumbering one property and not the other 20 (wishful thinking).

  • Investor · Fort Wayne, IN · Member since 2012 · 276 posts · 77 votes
    13y

    Bill Gulley great information! I love reading your posts. While they don't always make sense to me because of the complexity I hope that someday I will have 10% of what you know.

    It's 15-year fixed loan 4.75% interest with a re-evaluation at year 10. I hadn't asked about a release fee, but that is a good thing to know about and I'll be sure to ask them to add it. What is typical for this fee?

    The property conditions of my properties I like to think are above the normal as I allot for 10% of gross rents for future repairs and all homes I acquire I rehab extensively. Since I am a full-time property manager I want the properties I manage and own to be top-notch as it all is a reflection on me.

    They did say that they would essentially leave a remaining line of credit of $75,000 for future purchases although I wasn't really sure how that all would work. I'm not sure if it would help, but if you guys would be interested in looking at the letter they sent me you may understand it better than I and also be able to help me with things I should ask for in the loan policy.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    13y

    Thanks...

    A release fee can get complicated, sorta, as it could be viewed as a weighted average of the various loan to values to the outstanding balance and doing so could mean that to payoff a lesser property could require more than the sale price!

    Another way is to use a set ltv to each property as if the note contained several notes, an assigned value to each property, best for you and simple. This is what you need to ask for a written LTV assigned to each property and the outstanding principal reduced as a % of each payment.

    Don't know if you can attach a letter to a PM, but if it's not in pdf, be happy to look at your committment letter, fire away...

  • Investor · Fort Wayne, IN · Member since 2012 · 276 posts · 77 votes
    13y

    I tried to attach to a personal message Bill Gulley, but couldn't find it do you mind if I just send it to [email protected]? If so I'll get the letter over to you and see what you think. Thanks again!

  • Landlord · San Diego, CA · Member since 2012 · 129 posts · 49 votes
    13y

    I don't see any advantage to putting all the properties under one loan. Essentially you're cross-collateralizing all of your properties to the other and limiting your flexibility in handling your assets. Like Bill Gulley says, you're putting all of your eggs in one basket. In general, you want to keep things as separate as possible.

    What happens if one property burns to the ground and you decide not rebuild? What happens if you decide to refinance in a few years but one or two properties have declined in value (say market conditions change)? How will that impact your ability to refi the others?

    I suppose you'll save on the costs of closing on one loan as opposed to many. I just wonder if you'll regret having your hands tied down the road as different opportunities come up and your priorities change.

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