City just stripped my STR license!

City just stripped my STR license!

Member since 2022 · 47 posts · 12 votes

Im hoping to find a solution, so I'm hoping by putting this out there that i might have some luck with some of you more seasoned STR/Real Estate aficionados… After hosting exclusively with Airbnb for the last few years, the city of Denver just stripped my license away in the most ridiculous "hearing" I've ever witnessed, let alone been involved in. Its my only property and have maintained a 5 star rating since its first quarter and have over 300 ratings. Not bad for a lil bungalow! It was intended as a second income stream as i had a brick and mortar shop downtown where i was full time for 13 years. Cooties-19 shut my business down in March 2020, right as i made my way into the hospital and a much less anticipated and extended respite for the following year. My personal business was destroyed and i lost nearly every single client, but after the entire month of April 2020 had cancelled reservations, (thanks for "having our back" Airbnb) thankfully May picked right back up and i had some folks that stepped in to help me while i was away. After having the chance to get back to things in the summer of ‘21 and now as my only income, i had to rent another house to stay at so that i could continue with Airbnb, which up until now, is the only thing that saved me from losing my home.

Last December i renew the license as always, except anticipating a response in January this year turned into mid July when i was told it was denied and i could appeal and set a hearing date. Which occurred just yesterday. Another big shout out to Airbnb for freezing my calendar in Feb this year because Denver took its sweet A$$ time! Anyhow, Denver says that the property was not my primary address, and in the words of its attack dog, Linebarger Analytics, had reported that i was receiving mail at another address in late 2020, but failed to uncover the mail carrier which was bitten by a neighbors dog causing a subsequent halt to mail delivery for the entire block for nearly two months, ergo the need to forward the mail. Within that time i had rescinded the forwarding request and delivery commenced as normal. The report also failed to mention that, and added that for some unknown reason i stopped receiving mail just this last Dec ‘22.

As expected, during the hearing i had a stack of mail from the last 6 months as i queried where this idea had come from. There was some back and forth but in short time they realized that at no point was i ever receiving mail at another address other than when i had no choice. Their line of questioning quickly pivoted to my daughter, where she goes to school, where i sleep and questions for which any answer would never suffice the deaf ears of ideologues. 

Now, the meat of it…. Nowhere in the code will you find what "primary residency" actually means, but you will find what the directors interpretation of what it means, and for the purposes of STR REGULATIONS ONLY. Primary residency, as far as i can tell is used for tax and voting registration purposes only. It is not defined elsewhere and in spite of any glaring contradictions, the city, nor the 90lb suit they put in front of the camera to represent the DA's office can admit these contradictions because alas, they work in their favor. Honestly ill pretend for a minute that the Director (excise and license) sits upon the Supreme Court Artifice of STR and was duly elected to interpret city regulations as law. Can someone tell me how, with no limitations on how many days/nights a host can make their STR available each year, can the director ALSO claim that this is not a host's regular place of return if the host has no other "regular place of return" insofar as voting registration, tax purposes, receiving mail. This is just iterated as "elsewhere", and where if 51% or more nights out of the year are booked at this STR (and again, no limits on how many nights a host can make it available), then "elsewhere" supplants a primary address and your STR license thusly. Even when elsewhere has no address.

I sat quietly, remained composed and had politely posed these questions and instead of a reasonable and plain English response my feeble mind could understand i met the ire of ideologues. No quicker had the issue of addressing me, and in my own hearing about my primary address been forgotten but now both the suit and the judge in near perfect harmony revealed some of their cards by addressing Hosts at large and how WE are the problem and how we collectively are contributing to the housing crisis. It became crystal f'ing clear at this point that whether i had been guilty or not there was no way the city was letting me walk away (or stop the zoom call) with my STR license intact. This was their raison d'étre all along, and i went in prepared to fight an entirely different game! The hearing closed with a duet, parroting woes of the housing shortage and how "we all have to do our part"… Ill spare the you 10 additional pages it would take to transcribe the rage after hearing this statement bear its full weight upon the pan opposite of mine on the scale. Now my only source of income is gone, because in the opinion of the Ubermensch, er i mean Director, has the air of an investment.

So what are my options? Put house in a trust, file another LLC and apply for a new license? Sign a lease to a trustee and have them put a new STR license in their name? Either way i lose the last 5 years of work and reputation i built on a platform so prepared to stab its "partners" in the back. Oh yea… Airbnb made sure to outfit the city with messages with guests, reviews, photos and i believe (possibly) geolocation data collected when using the app. None of which would strike me as prime facie evidence unless the court had put the defendant in a position to defend a negative, something unfamiliar to Americans, though perhaps should mull over the possibility of something to get used to.

If you made it this far, heck ya! You rock and thanks so much for letting me take up your time. Any input would be greatly appreciated! 

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Dave StokleyBusiness Member
Property Manager · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 699 posts · 799 votes
3y

If I were you here’s what I do:

1. Look for a local lawyer who is experienced with this.

2. Contact Mile High Hosts, which I think is affiliated with Rent Responsibly. They appear to be active in helping defend hosts in these situations. https://www.milehighhosts.org/

3. Dial back the “Cooties-19” and calling people “ideologues” and “suits.” There’s just no world in which that’s gonna help your case.

Good luck!


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  • Realtor · Gatlinburg · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 957 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Seth Kristian:

    Im hoping to find a solution, so I'm hoping by putting this out there that i might have some luck with some of you more seasoned STR/Real Estate aficionados… After hosting exclusively with Airbnb for the last few years, the city of Denver just stripped my license away in the most ridiculous "hearing" I've ever witnessed, let alone been involved in. Its my only property and have maintained a 5 star rating since its first quarter and have over 300 ratings. Not bad for a lil bungalow! It was intended as a second income stream as i had a brick and mortar shop downtown where i was full time for 13 years. Cooties-19 shut my business down in March 2020, right as i made my way into the hospital and a much less anticipated and extended respite for the following year. My personal business was destroyed and i lost nearly every single client, but after the entire month of April 2020 had cancelled reservations, (thanks for "having our back" Airbnb) thankfully May picked right back up and i had some folks that stepped in to help me while i was away. After having the chance to get back to things in the summer of ‘21 and now as my only income, i had to rent another house to stay at so that i could continue with Airbnb, which up until now, is the only thing that saved me from losing my home.

    Last December i renew the license as always, except anticipating a response in January this year turned into mid July when i was told it was denied and i could appeal and set a hearing date. Which occurred just yesterday. Another big shout out to Airbnb for freezing my calendar in Feb this year because Denver took its sweet A$$ time! Anyhow, Denver says that the property was not my primary address, and in the words of its attack dog, Linebarger Analytics, had reported that i was receiving mail at another address in late 2020, but failed to uncover the mail carrier which was bitten by a neighbors dog causing a subsequent halt to mail delivery for the entire block for nearly two months, ergo the need to forward the mail. Within that time i had rescinded the forwarding request and delivery commenced as normal. The report also failed to mention that, and added that for some unknown reason i stopped receiving mail just this last Dec ‘22.

    As expected, during the hearing i had a stack of mail from the last 6 months as i queried where this idea had come from. There was some back and forth but in short time they realized that at no point was i ever receiving mail at another address other than when i had no choice. Their line of questioning quickly pivoted to my daughter, where she goes to school, where i sleep and questions for which any answer would never suffice the deaf ears of ideologues. 

    Now, the meat of it…. Nowhere in the code will you find what "primary residency" actually means, but you will find what the directors interpretation of what it means, and for the purposes of STR REGULATIONS ONLY. Primary residency, as far as i can tell is used for tax and voting registration purposes only. It is not defined elsewhere and in spite of any glaring contradictions, the city, nor the 90lb suit they put in front of the camera to represent the DA's office can admit these contradictions because alas, they work in their favor. Honestly ill pretend for a minute that the Director (excise and license) sits upon the Supreme Court Artifice of STR and was duly elected to interpret city regulations as law. Can someone tell me how, with no limitations on how many days/nights a host can make their STR available each year, can the director ALSO claim that this is not a host's regular place of return if the host has no other "regular place of return" insofar as voting registration, tax purposes, receiving mail. This is just iterated as "elsewhere", and where if 51% or more nights out of the year are booked at this STR (and again, no limits on how many nights a host can make it available), then "elsewhere" supplants a primary address and your STR license thusly. Even when elsewhere has no address.

    I sat quietly, remained composed and had politely posed these questions and instead of a reasonable and plain English response my feeble mind could understand i met the ire of ideologues. No quicker had the issue of addressing me, and in my own hearing about my primary address been forgotten but now both the suit and the judge in near perfect harmony revealed some of their cards by addressing Hosts at large and how WE are the problem and how we collectively are contributing to the housing crisis. It became crystal f'ing clear at this point that whether i had been guilty or not there was no way the city was letting me walk away (or stop the zoom call) with my STR license intact. This was their raison d'étre all along, and i went in prepared to fight an entirely different game! The hearing closed with a duet, parroting woes of the housing shortage and how "we all have to do our part"… Ill spare the you 10 additional pages it would take to transcribe the rage after hearing this statement bear its full weight upon the pan opposite of mine on the scale. Now my only source of income is gone, because in the opinion of the Ubermensch, er i mean Director, has the air of an investment.

    So what are my options? Put house in a trust, file another LLC and apply for a new license? Sign a lease to a trustee and have them put a new STR license in their name? Either way i lose the last 5 years of work and reputation i built on a platform so prepared to stab its "partners" in the back. Oh yea… Airbnb made sure to outfit the city with messages with guests, reviews, photos and i believe (possibly) geolocation data collected when using the app. None of which would strike me as prime facie evidence unless the court had put the defendant in a position to defend a negative, something unfamiliar to Americans, though perhaps should mull over the possibility of something to get used to.

    If you made it this far, heck ya! You rock and thanks so much for letting me take up your time. Any input would be greatly appreciated! 

    Sell the property at presumably a peak price in your market and do not buy a STR in a major city again.

  • Member since 2022 · 47 posts · 12 votes
    3y

    I didnt buy an STR, this is my house and income at the moment. Lived here for almost ten years and have often slept in my car just to keep keep the income steady. Which is what begged my original question. No limits on days to avail an STR should not preclude that same property's designation as primary residence when occupancy exceeds 51%. In this case about 90%. Its an interpretation from the director of E&L, for STR regulations specifically

  • Dave StokleyBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 699 posts · 799 votes
    3y

    If I were you here’s what I do:

    1. Look for a local lawyer who is experienced with this.

    2. Contact Mile High Hosts, which I think is affiliated with Rent Responsibly. They appear to be active in helping defend hosts in these situations. https://www.milehighhosts.org/

    3. Dial back the “Cooties-19” and calling people “ideologues” and “suits.” There’s just no world in which that’s gonna help your case.

    Good luck!


  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @John Carbone:
    Quote from @Seth Kristian:

    Im hoping to find a solution, so I'm hoping by putting this out there that i might have some luck with some of you more seasoned STR/Real Estate aficionados… After hosting exclusively with Airbnb for the last few years, the city of Denver just stripped my license away in the most ridiculous "hearing" I've ever witnessed, let alone been involved in. Its my only property and have maintained a 5 star rating since its first quarter and have over 300 ratings. Not bad for a lil bungalow! It was intended as a second income stream as i had a brick and mortar shop downtown where i was full time for 13 years. Cooties-19 shut my business down in March 2020, right as i made my way into the hospital and a much less anticipated and extended respite for the following year. My personal business was destroyed and i lost nearly every single client, but after the entire month of April 2020 had cancelled reservations, (thanks for "having our back" Airbnb) thankfully May picked right back up and i had some folks that stepped in to help me while i was away. After having the chance to get back to things in the summer of ‘21 and now as my only income, i had to rent another house to stay at so that i could continue with Airbnb, which up until now, is the only thing that saved me from losing my home.

    Last December i renew the license as always, except anticipating a response in January this year turned into mid July when i was told it was denied and i could appeal and set a hearing date. Which occurred just yesterday. Another big shout out to Airbnb for freezing my calendar in Feb this year because Denver took its sweet A$$ time! Anyhow, Denver says that the property was not my primary address, and in the words of its attack dog, Linebarger Analytics, had reported that i was receiving mail at another address in late 2020, but failed to uncover the mail carrier which was bitten by a neighbors dog causing a subsequent halt to mail delivery for the entire block for nearly two months, ergo the need to forward the mail. Within that time i had rescinded the forwarding request and delivery commenced as normal. The report also failed to mention that, and added that for some unknown reason i stopped receiving mail just this last Dec ‘22.

    As expected, during the hearing i had a stack of mail from the last 6 months as i queried where this idea had come from. There was some back and forth but in short time they realized that at no point was i ever receiving mail at another address other than when i had no choice. Their line of questioning quickly pivoted to my daughter, where she goes to school, where i sleep and questions for which any answer would never suffice the deaf ears of ideologues. 

    Now, the meat of it…. Nowhere in the code will you find what "primary residency" actually means, but you will find what the directors interpretation of what it means, and for the purposes of STR REGULATIONS ONLY. Primary residency, as far as i can tell is used for tax and voting registration purposes only. It is not defined elsewhere and in spite of any glaring contradictions, the city, nor the 90lb suit they put in front of the camera to represent the DA's office can admit these contradictions because alas, they work in their favor. Honestly ill pretend for a minute that the Director (excise and license) sits upon the Supreme Court Artifice of STR and was duly elected to interpret city regulations as law. Can someone tell me how, with no limitations on how many days/nights a host can make their STR available each year, can the director ALSO claim that this is not a host's regular place of return if the host has no other "regular place of return" insofar as voting registration, tax purposes, receiving mail. This is just iterated as "elsewhere", and where if 51% or more nights out of the year are booked at this STR (and again, no limits on how many nights a host can make it available), then "elsewhere" supplants a primary address and your STR license thusly. Even when elsewhere has no address.

    I sat quietly, remained composed and had politely posed these questions and instead of a reasonable and plain English response my feeble mind could understand i met the ire of ideologues. No quicker had the issue of addressing me, and in my own hearing about my primary address been forgotten but now both the suit and the judge in near perfect harmony revealed some of their cards by addressing Hosts at large and how WE are the problem and how we collectively are contributing to the housing crisis. It became crystal f'ing clear at this point that whether i had been guilty or not there was no way the city was letting me walk away (or stop the zoom call) with my STR license intact. This was their raison d'étre all along, and i went in prepared to fight an entirely different game! The hearing closed with a duet, parroting woes of the housing shortage and how "we all have to do our part"… Ill spare the you 10 additional pages it would take to transcribe the rage after hearing this statement bear its full weight upon the pan opposite of mine on the scale. Now my only source of income is gone, because in the opinion of the Ubermensch, er i mean Director, has the air of an investment.

    So what are my options? Put house in a trust, file another LLC and apply for a new license? Sign a lease to a trustee and have them put a new STR license in their name? Either way i lose the last 5 years of work and reputation i built on a platform so prepared to stab its "partners" in the back. Oh yea… Airbnb made sure to outfit the city with messages with guests, reviews, photos and i believe (possibly) geolocation data collected when using the app. None of which would strike me as prime facie evidence unless the court had put the defendant in a position to defend a negative, something unfamiliar to Americans, though perhaps should mull over the possibility of something to get used to.

    If you made it this far, heck ya! You rock and thanks so much for letting me take up your time. Any input would be greatly appreciated! 

    Sell the property at presumably a peak price in your market and do not buy a STR in a major city again.


     Excellent idea!

  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Seth Kristian:

    I didnt buy an STR, this is my house and income at the moment. Lived here for almost ten years and have often slept in my car just to keep keep the income steady. Which is what begged my original question. No limits on days to avail an STR should not preclude that same property's designation as primary residence when occupancy exceeds 51%. In this case about 90%. Its an interpretation from the director of E&L, for STR regulations specifically


     If you're renting this property 90% of the time you have to be staying somewhere else most of the time. I see why they wouldn't believe this is your primary redidence.

  • Rental Property Investor · Northern NJ · Member since 2019 · 672 posts · 677 votes
    3y

    I thin you're missing the forest from the trees. It is obvious the Denver government doesn't want any STR in their city. They will stop at nothing to rid them once licenses come up for renewal. Even if you win a battle, you will lose the war. Every year or two they'll put you through the same rigamarole. It's obvious they are just making up rules as they go to get you to bend to their will. When someone can make up rules on the fly, the have a superior advantage.

    The smartest, non emotional option is to cut the STR option out of your life. Sucks, but when a city/town wants something, they usually get it. They have far more resources than you in this case.

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    3y

    First, congratulations on establishing such a successful STR business. I Know for fact it is not easy to do it and do it right, so good on ya!

    Second, I would not give them the satisfaction of wasting another second of your time fighting this ridiculous issue. Sell this house - hopefully for an insane amount of profit - and not only do not ever start a STR in a major blue city again, just move the hell out of that l*b*r*l POS city and never give them another dime of your money in taxes or any other way.

    I find this type of totalitarian behavior by municipalities infuriating. If they really don't want vacation rentals, just man up and say so, but to hide behind the "you STR owners are causing all the homelessness and housing crisis"...what a bunch of crap.

    Anyway, my friend, get the h*ll out of there....best of luck.

  • Realtor · Gatlinburg · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 957 votes
    3y

    “Their line of questioning quickly pivoted to my daughter, where she goes to school, where i sleep”


    this line of questioning for renting out your house to someone…sounds like nazi Germany when they went around to houses looking for Jewish people. 

  • Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 135 posts · 294 votes
    3y
    Quote from @John Carbone:

    “Their line of questioning quickly pivoted to my daughter, where she goes to school, where i sleep”


    this line of questioning for renting out your house to someone…sounds like nazi Germany when they went around to houses looking for Jewish people. 


     Don't own rentals in liberal cities / states, it's just not worth it.

  • Ryan MoyerBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Orlando Kissimmee Davenport Salt Lake City, Park City · Member since 2019 · 991 posts · 1k+ votes
    3y

    I am sympathetic to your plight, as I understand it can really hurt to build a reliance on something and then have that taken away.

    However, I don't really see a way out of this.  It sounds like, in an absolutely best case scenario, you're trying to violate the spirit of the law on a technicality.

    It seems pretty obvious that the spirit of the law here is that they don't want people operating commercial hospitality businesses in residential neighborhoods, but want to find a balance where they can still allow actual residents to rent out a room or their space on occasion when on vacation, etc. With 90% occupancy, it's pretty clear that you're running an STR business in practice. Whether you sleep in another home you own or your car is really immaterial to that, other than creating a technicality by which you're hoping to be able to claim the home as a primary residence so you can run a business in a non-commercially zoned district.

    Even if you are able to prove the technicality and get by on it for a renewal, that won't be a long-term solution as they'll just update the law to more clearly define these limits which they probably previously assumed to be rather obvious. It's unfortunately, but it will be this way everywhere eventually. If you're renting out a property 90% of the time that is a business. The same as a steel mill or a hotel or a car wash. It's taken municipalities a while to catch up since "STR" used to mean renting out your couch occasionally, but eventually all of these STR businesses will be required to be in commercial/tourist zones the same way every other business has to be.

    UPDATE:  Well, interesting timing, as there was just a big win in Austin in ruling that STRs couldn't be restricted to require owner-occupied, so maybe there is hope.

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  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Ryan Moyer:

    but eventually all of these STR businesses will be required to be in commercial/tourist zones the same way every other business has to be.

    Speculation. I've lived in (And currently do) areas where a business can operate in a residential area. As long as it's a nice restaurant or a lodging, I think they will always be allowed. They are even tacitly encouraged in some areas. It will depend on the political makeup of the area and their views on zoning.....


  • Investor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 708 votes
    3y
    Quote from @John Carbone:

    “Their line of questioning quickly pivoted to my daughter, where she goes to school, where i sleep”


    this line of questioning for renting out your house to someone…sounds like nazi Germany when they went around to houses looking for Jewish people. 

     Really?  what a daft thing say...  obviously, you know nothing about Nazi Germany

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Andrew S.:
    Quote from @John Carbone:

    “Their line of questioning quickly pivoted to my daughter, where she goes to school, where i sleep”


    this line of questioning for renting out your house to someone…sounds like nazi Germany when they went around to houses looking for Jewish people. 

     Really?  what a daft thing say...  obviously, you know nothing about Nazi Germany

     Sounds like the same general concept to me. Maybe a little of Stalin or Mao thinking in there as well....

  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    3y

    Thoughts:

    1. Cities can and do have the right to regulate commercial activity unless their state takes that right away (which is generally not permitted under state constitutions) so you have that working against you anyway.

    2. The no mail thing on a block for 2 months honestly sounds like a lie. You really wouldn't expect a hearing (or anyone else) to believe that because a mailman got bit - something that probably happens all the time in the US - no one on the block was able to receive home-delivered mail for two months? Mail delivers typically cover very large areas - what happened to all the other blocks - they couldn't get mail for 2 months as well? Or the other mail carriers all stepped up to cover all the other routes except your one block? Come on now. 

    3. You said you moved to a rental house in order to keep renting this out as an AirBnb. Once you moved that became your primary residence. There is a definition of primary residence; you can look it up on the IRS site. In the case of the IRS it's designed to keep you from being able to just claim anywhere, anytime, selling properties without paying capital gains, paying taxes due, etc. 

    Honestly I think the best advice that was given to you is to sell and move on. Until it's determined that cities can't stop you from having STRs anywhere, anytime, they will be allowed to regulate this activity. You don't have to like it but you are/were obviously circumventing their regulations which is why your license was denied. Take your profit (no capital gains, it sounds like) and buy in another market where there's no regulation. 

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  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @JD Martin:

    Take your profit (no capital gains, it sounds like) and buy in another market where there's no regulation. 

    And there it is. The easy solution....

    They say you can't fight City Hall (and that's not entirely accurate any more) but why? Easier and better all around to just move on....
  • Michael BaumPro Member
    Olympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    3y

    Hey @Seth Kristian, I pretty much echo the sell and move option.

    In the end there are a few STR owners vs the thousands of citizens that might be protesting the STRs in their backyard. There is no way to overcome that kind of advantage.

  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    3y

    I feel your pain. My STR market recently implemented a weighted lottery to implement an . In spite of having max weight in the lottery, one of our STRs was not chosen in the lottery. My family has operated this STR since 1999. It had thousands of positive reviews.

    We were forced to pivot.  The unit is now a MTR.  

    Rules change.  Rule changes are not always fair. 

    You may need to pivot.  You will need to determine whether that it is selling, switching to MTR, or some other option.  I suspect that fighting the city on this is not your best option.  

    Good luck

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    3y

    I could swear you posted this story already. I don't see that anything has changed. We are only hearing your side of the story. As JD already pointed out, your story has some questionable details. The mail delivery story just doesn't ring true. And why do you claim this house is your primary residence but then admit that you rented another residence so that you could rent out your primary residence?

    As for your "primary residence isn't defined" argument, that sounds like President Clinton BS. Ask any ordinary Joe off the street to define primary residence and they will do it without hesitation. If you did not live there, then it was not your primary residence.

    You should sell the house while we are still in a peak market, and move somewhere affordable that permits short-term rentals.

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  • Lender · New York, NY · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y

    This is a risk you run when you go the "metro market" approach versus doing STR in fly-to-vacation markets or drive-to vacation markets. Regulation risk is high. With all this said, have you considered the MTR approach? This is a common pivot for STR investors in metro markets that get rug pulled by city regulations.

  • Rental Property Investor · Franklin, TN · Member since 2019 · 160 posts · 125 votes
    3y

    Ryan,

    Thanks for the heads up on the Austin case. Very interesting.

  • Denver, CO · Member since 2012 · 268 posts · 162 votes
    3y
    Quote from @John Carbone:

    “Their line of questioning quickly pivoted to my daughter, where she goes to school, where i sleep”


    this line of questioning for renting out your house to someone…sounds like nazi Germany when they went around to houses looking for Jewish people. 

    First, this comment is very inappropriate. 

    Secondly, in a democracy, we work things out. The law and the political environment are the mechanisms for doing this. Sometimes, we are on the losing side of an argument, that is how democracies work. Your comparing this to Nazi Germany is insulting and ill informed.

    When corruption has played a part in how things go, that is wrong. We must support democracy full throatedly, in particular with all the openly anti-democracy folks floating around now. Buying a home is one of the most important financial decisions many can make to improve their lifelong wealth. We must support this, also, if we are to maintain the Horatio Algers America. That is a dream I believe in.

  • Member since 2022 · 47 posts · 12 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Dave Stokley:

    If I were you here’s what I do:

    1. Look for a local lawyer who is experienced with this.

    2. Contact Mile High Hosts, which I think is affiliated with Rent Responsibly. They appear to be active in helping defend hosts in these situations. https://www.milehighhosts.org/

    3. Dial back the “Cooties-19” and calling people “ideologues” and “suits.” There’s just no world in which that’s gonna help your case.

    Good luck!


    Thanks Dave, ill be reaching out to them! And i do agree with ya, and while im very composed in a professional setting, i needed to vent a little and it just so happened this was the place for that. Though you are right, and thanks again! 
  • Member since 2022 · 47 posts · 12 votes
    3y
    Quote from @John Underwood:
    Quote from @Seth Kristian:

    I didnt buy an STR, this is my house and income at the moment. Lived here for almost ten years and have often slept in my car just to keep keep the income steady. Which is what begged my original question. No limits on days to avail an STR should not preclude that same property's designation as primary residence when occupancy exceeds 51%. In this case about 90%. Its an interpretation from the director of E&L, for STR regulations specifically


     If you're renting this property 90% of the time you have to be staying somewhere else most of the time. I see why they wouldn't believe this is your primary redidence.


     Oh absolutely, and i apologize as i tend to go WAY off into the weeds sometimes. My line of thinking was not whether or not i was staying at my primary residence the majority of the time, but that in my opinion its a misuse of the term “primary residence”.. Not trying to appeal to abstract interpretations of law or skirt around, find loopholes etc. Its only that primary res are tax and voting designations, and used here in a municipal code which had been interpreted (not defined) by the director. My argument is over private property rights, which municipal codes must adhere to etc.. I do appreciate hearing from everyone on here though truly enjoy being challenged on my ideas or pointing out where im wrong. 

  • Member since 2022 · 47 posts · 12 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Mark F.:

    I thin you're missing the forest from the trees. It is obvious the Denver government doesn't want any STR in their city. They will stop at nothing to rid them once licenses come up for renewal. Even if you win a battle, you will lose the war. Every year or two they'll put you through the same rigamarole. It's obvious they are just making up rules as they go to get you to bend to their will. When someone can make up rules on the fly, the have a superior advantage.

    The smartest, non emotional option is to cut the STR option out of your life. Sucks, but when a city/town wants something, they usually get it. They have far more resources than you in this case.


     Mark, your’e spot on! Thanks for not trying to twist what i was intending to convey, and i think you got right to the soul of the entire thing. My frustrations on the surface are certainly in the moment and at first glance appear to be missing the forest through the trees. A bit deeper than that i am right there with you and know the city/state wouldnt and couldnt let me appeal the case because its not in line with their own goals and its not the hill i should be dying on. Its nothing but stress at the end of the day but in the end youre right! Ill likely be selling and looking for somewhere to park the money, certainly reach out if you have some ideas in that department haha. 

  • Member since 2022 · 47 posts · 12 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Andrew S.:
    Quote from @John Carbone:

    “Their line of questioning quickly pivoted to my daughter, where she goes to school, where i sleep”


    this line of questioning for renting out your house to someone…sounds like nazi Germany when they went around to houses looking for Jewish people. 

     Really?  what a daft thing say...  obviously, you know nothing about Nazi Germany

     Ummm, yea. No idea where the Nazi thing came from. I do know a lot about the subject and have plenty of opinions about city administrators, though id have to agree with Andrew here, it’s fairly non sequitur

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