Four Corners STR Resorts -- Cliff Notes?

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I own a property that does very well in Champions Gate, and also manage a handful of other properties in Champions Gate, Solara, and Storey Lake. This is the property I own: https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/5... You have a very good understanding of the area already. Most of the questions you had that you speculated on you pretty much nailed. I don't manage any in Reunion but when we looked at properties to buy ourselves we came to the same conclusion as you. It is a nicer neighborhood, with typically lower ROI. The nightly rates are higher, but so are the home prices, and the bump in home prices is greater than the bump in nightly rates. So on that front, you've nailed it in that you really need to choose which is more important to you between using the place yourself or maximizing ROI. One thing that surprises a lot of people who buy remotely in the non-Reunion resorts is that, despite being really nice neighborhoods with really nice homes, the other resorts can feel kind of trashy while you're there. The houses are all jammed together and some of the PMs are renting out 9br homes for $100/nt to bad guests that play loud music and get into big fights outside. Cars are piled up everywhere on the street, etc. Other times of year when rates are higher it's better, but that kind of stuff has definitely gotten more and more prevalent with the increase in competition driving down rates and bringing in worse and more "party oriented" guests. Even if you're taking good care of your place the 4 houses around you may not be, and your guests (or you when you visit) may end up outside in your pool overhearing a drunken family argument 15 feet away next door. (One neat trick for this is when you're looking at a property, pull up the homes next door on the Airbnb/VRBO map and see if they are nice homes with good rates or if they're unthemed party pads renting out for super low rates and getting trashed). But, on the flipside of that, a 5-6br home in Reunion is going to cost significantly more than a 9br home in CG, and if themed out well that 9br home in CG can compete with the 5-6 BR themed home in Reunion on revenue despite costing 50% less. Additionally, like you mentioned, the PM requirements for amenity use are going to be a major roadblock for you if you want to prove material participation for taxes. It is going to be difficult to prove material participation if you're using a PM (and you're already fighting an uphill battle on that if you're a W2 worker and you're trying to prove material participation for yourself rather than a non-working spouse). In terms of the neighborhood, the big choice is Reunion vs. all the rest for the reasons above. Once you decide one of the rest, it's not a HUGE difference between them. A quick breakdown of them would be. Windsor Hills is the OG resort and by FAR the closest to Disney. The homes are older here so may require more renovation work if you're not buying an already renovated one, but you know the three L's of real estate and this neighborhood smashes all the rest on that. If self managing do note that the gate system is notorious for being a the world's biggest PITA. Storey Lake is the 2nd closest to Disney (once traffic is accounted for, because you don't have to touch I-4) and is one of the newer/nicer neighborhoods. Guests will pay a small premium for this and occupancy may be slightly higher, but home prices are a fair bit higher as well. You're looking at $1M+ for a non-themed newish home there, whereas the homes in Champions Gate are a good $200k+ less and you could buy a fully themed property in CG for less than an unthemed one in Storey Lake. But again, you can't move the location. Champions Gate is generally one of the cheaper neighborhoods and still really nice, but also the furthest from Disney. It was one of the first to really take it up a notch after Windsor Hills so some people still actively search out "Champions Gate" directly, but if your place doesn't stand out there with really good theming it's going to be harder because location is not on your side. One less-known advantage of Champions Gate is Passover. The HOA works with the Jewish community to basically turn the whole neighborhood into a Passover hub and orthodox Jews from all across the country travel specifically to CG for the holiday. So you get a free two week booking at Christmas rates (we actually booked 14 days all at ABOVE our Christmas rates this year) in April that none of the other resorts get, which is a nice headstart every year. Solara would not be my first choice as home prices are higher like Storey Lake, but the location is not as good so it doesn't rent at as much of a premium. Still a nice neighborhood though. Nice self management bonus is that you don't have to put names on a gate list like most of the rest, as the resort takes care of that part. Windsor at Westside I don't have personal experience with but people seem to do well there. Location is just okay, but the neighborhood is very nice and the "Windsor" name does carry some weight. Solterra is the only one I would avoid. Old. Reputation for crime. Bleh.All in all, the main piece of advice I would give people in your situation right now is that you need to REALLY do a good job on the theming (or buy one that is really well themed). Two years ago just giving it your best shot on theming meant automatic success. But now with higher prices/rates along with a lot more themed competition you can definitely still have a themed property and not cash flow. You've not only got to put in the effort of theming, you've got to actually succeed with it and creating (or finding) something that really resonates with guests.

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@Simon Lee, @Shawn McCormick can advise when it comes to location.

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Hi Simon. I have STR homes in 'four corners' (solara and windsor at westside) and my company manages a number of higher-end STR homes in reunion and other resorts in the 34747 zipcode. We also have 3 young kids, and I picked these locations as the clubhouses are great, 7,8,9 bedroom houses hold their value well, and close enough to disney, and away from Champion's Gate I-4 traffic corridor. Windsor Hills has a lower HOA, and it is an older resort, so building repairs and expenses will be higher. You'll still get high occupancy, but nightly rate demand is usually lower, so ROI will be affected. Windsor Island is very different to Windsor Hills and for your budget you will get better ROI from Windsor Island, Westside, Solara and some areas of Reunion and Championsgate. If you can't find a custom build in Reunion for your budget, it might be worth considering splitting your budget to see if you can purchase two $750K fully furnished homes, as bedroom count is king for passive revenue. I can message or even better talk over the phone, about the guest and homeowners pros/cons of Reunion/Reunion Encore, along with Margaritaville resort as they offer different business models. Bottomline, Encore wont let guest use any facilities, if the homeowner doesn't use one of their PMs. Reunion is a little more tiered and flexible to its homeowners/PM/guests. Happy to connect further. Andy Betts

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Hi @Simon Lee Sorry I'm late to the game here and thank you @Michael Baum!Much has already been said here, but I'm open to a zoom or phone call to discuss my experiences with other investors that I've worked with in all of these communities. It is great to get points of view from property managers, owners and Realtors to round out expectations and insights.Let me know if I can provide any other value to your search. Best of luck!

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We also manage homes in all the above resorts. Our Solara homes actually do really well, and we find that the community attracts a nice group of guests. The pool, clubhouse and restaurant have a more upscale feel than some of the other resorts, and not as crowded.Feel free to reach out if you would like to compare specific listings in the different resorts (i.e. a 9 B/R in Solara vs. Windsor Island or Storey Lake). We use key Data Dashboard to pull reports on revenue, occupancy and other metrics, and we are happy to pull the reports for you. Just let me know!

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Look forward to it. Feel free to shoot me a few homes you’re looking at, I can run some revenue forecasts for you too. I don’t sell real estate, but can recommend a few great realtors, if you need.

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Thanks Andy! That’s good info. I also looked up your management company and really like your pricing model. I’ll be in touch and will exchange info with you.