Property Manager Wants Bank Account Access

Property Manager Wants Bank Account Access

Member since 2021 · 16 posts · 5 votes

Hello Bigger Pockets Community,

I have some multi family properties (total of eight units) and the property management company has a shared bank account so they can deposit rents and then debit expenses with co-sign ability. They recently overdrafted my account because they claimed there weren't enough available funds for expenses (had over $2,000 in account at the time), so they're now saying they would like there to be one months rent or security deposits to be kept in the bank account at all times (roughly $5,000). I don't like the idea of leaving security deposits with them because they don't keep it in a separate account. They leave it in the same account and then draw funds out of it when they need to for expenses which seems to defeat the point of a security deposit, unless of course the expenses are related to move out. This is why I removed the security deposits and placed them in a separate account that only I have access to.

1. Does any of this seem normal? How much money would it be advised to leave in the account for this situation? I already don't like that they have co-sign ability. Having more than $1,000 in the account seems high to me. To me it seems to make sense to withdraw as much left over money as possible so it can be reinvested or sit in an interest-bearing account.

2. I have a $300 threshold for expenses per property and if that get's used I refund it, although they tend not to notify me of expenses in the first place that go over and also don't tell me when a unit is turning. But since there's two properties, I keep about $600-800 per month in the account for expenses at all times, sometimes more. Is this not enough? How much should I leave in the account for the management team?

3. Moving forward, what would be advised for an agreement with a property management company for paying bills?

It seems like there's a lot of red flags here but I'm trying to see if I'm overlooking something or if they way they are operating is normal in the property management space, although from what I've seen it seems most companies pay bills out of their own pocket first and then deduct that from rental income before sending payment to the owner.

Many thanks for your input!

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
4y

This is not normal. Deposits should be maintained separately from operating funds. The PM should not have access to your bank account except to deposit funds.

Time to search for a professional.

Remember: cheaper doesn't mean you'll make more money.

Start by going to www.narpm.org to search their directory of managers. These are professionals with additional training and a stricter code of ethics. It's no guarantee but it's a good place to start. You can also search Google and read reviews. Regardless of how you find them, try to interview at least three managers.

1. Ask how many units they manage and how much experience they have. If it's a larger organization, feel free to inquire about their staff qualifications.

2. Review their management agreement. Make sure it explicitly explains the process for termination if you are unhappy with their services, but especially if they violate the terms of your agreement.

3. Understand the fees involved and calculate the total cost for an entire year of management so you can compare the different managers. It may sound nice to pay a 6% management fee but the extra fees can add up to be more than the other company that charges 10% with no additional fees. Fees should be clearly stated in writing, easy to understand, and justifiable. Common fees will include a set-up fee, leasing fee for each turnover or a lease renewal fee, marking up maintenance, retaining late fees, and more. If you ask the manager to justify a fee and he starts hemming and hawing, move on or require them to remove the fee. Don't be afraid to negotiate, particularly if you have a lot of rentals.

4. Review their lease agreement and addenda. Think of all the things that could go wrong and see if the lease addresses them: unauthorized pets or tenants, early termination, security deposit, lease violations, late rent, eviction, lawn maintenance, parking, etc.

5. Don't just read the lease! Ask the manager to explain their process for dealing with maintenance, late rent, evictions, turnover, etc. If they are professional, they can explain this quickly and easily. If they are VERY professional, they will have their processes in writing as verification that policies are enforced equally and fairly by their entire staff.

6. Ask to speak with some of their current owners and current/former tenants. You can also check their reviews online at Google, Facebook, or Yelp. Just remember: most negative reviews are written by problematic tenants. The fact that a tenant is complaining online might be an indication the property manager dealt with them properly so be sure to ask the manager for their side of the story.

7. Look at their marketing strategy. Are they doing everything they can to expose properties to the widest possible market? Are their listings detailed with good quality photos? Can they prove how long it takes to rent a vacant property?

This isn't inclusive but should give you a good start. If you have specific questions about property management, I'll be happy to help!

The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
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17 Replies

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  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    4y

    Seems weird that a PM would want to share an account with you.

  • Member since 2021 · 16 posts · 5 votes
    4y
  • Drew SygitBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    4y

    This is the REVERSE of standard SFR and small multi-family (up to 50 units or so) management, where all funds stay in the PMC's bank account and are sent to the owner periodically, typically monthly.

    For larger apartment buildings iIt's normal for all rents to be deposited to the owner's bank account and the PMC be given access to this account to pay bills.

    Regarding your setup, it seems odd for only 8 units. 

    It could still obviously work, but given the other problems you are having, there appears to be bigger issues. Read below our standard advice when evaluating PMC's:

    In our experience, the #1 mistake landlords make when selecting a Property Management Company (PMC) is ASSUMING instead of CONFIRMING.

    It's often a case of not doing enough research, as they don't know what they don't know!

    Landlords mistakenly ASSUME all PMCs offer the exact SAME SERVICES and PERFORM those services EXACTLY THE SAME WAY, so price is the only differentiator.

    So, the first question they usually ask a PMC is about fees - instead of asking about services and HOW those services are executed.

    This also leads them to ASSUME simpler is better when it comes to management contracts.

    The reality is the opposite - if it's not in writing then the PMC doesn't have to provide the service or can charge extra for it!

    We have a 12 page management contract that we've added our real experiences to over the years, with the intent of protecting both us AND the landlord. Beyond the Monthly Management, Placement & Maintenance fees, all other fees in our contract are IF EVENT -> THEN fees.

    We don’t know any PMCs to recommend in the area mentioned, but since selecting the wrong PMC is usually more harmful than selecting a bad tenant, you might want to read our series about “How to Screen a PMC Better than a Tenant”:

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/member-blogs/3094/91877-how-to-screen-a-pmc-better-than-a-tenant-part-1-services-and-processes

    We recommend you get management contracts from several PMCs and compare the services they cover and, more importantly, what they each DO NOT cover.

    EDUCATE YOURSELF - yes, it will take time, but will lead to a selection that better meets your expectations & avoids potentially costly surprises!

    P.S. If you just hire the cheapest or first PMC you speak with and it turns into a bad experience, please don’t assume ALL PMC’s are bad and start trashing PMC’s in general. Take ownership of your mistake and learn to do the proper due diligence recommended above😊

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    4y

    This is not normal. Deposits should be maintained separately from operating funds. The PM should not have access to your bank account except to deposit funds.

    Time to search for a professional.

    Remember: cheaper doesn't mean you'll make more money.

    Start by going to www.narpm.org to search their directory of managers. These are professionals with additional training and a stricter code of ethics. It's no guarantee but it's a good place to start. You can also search Google and read reviews. Regardless of how you find them, try to interview at least three managers.

    1. Ask how many units they manage and how much experience they have. If it's a larger organization, feel free to inquire about their staff qualifications.

    2. Review their management agreement. Make sure it explicitly explains the process for termination if you are unhappy with their services, but especially if they violate the terms of your agreement.

    3. Understand the fees involved and calculate the total cost for an entire year of management so you can compare the different managers. It may sound nice to pay a 6% management fee but the extra fees can add up to be more than the other company that charges 10% with no additional fees. Fees should be clearly stated in writing, easy to understand, and justifiable. Common fees will include a set-up fee, leasing fee for each turnover or a lease renewal fee, marking up maintenance, retaining late fees, and more. If you ask the manager to justify a fee and he starts hemming and hawing, move on or require them to remove the fee. Don't be afraid to negotiate, particularly if you have a lot of rentals.

    4. Review their lease agreement and addenda. Think of all the things that could go wrong and see if the lease addresses them: unauthorized pets or tenants, early termination, security deposit, lease violations, late rent, eviction, lawn maintenance, parking, etc.

    5. Don't just read the lease! Ask the manager to explain their process for dealing with maintenance, late rent, evictions, turnover, etc. If they are professional, they can explain this quickly and easily. If they are VERY professional, they will have their processes in writing as verification that policies are enforced equally and fairly by their entire staff.

    6. Ask to speak with some of their current owners and current/former tenants. You can also check their reviews online at Google, Facebook, or Yelp. Just remember: most negative reviews are written by problematic tenants. The fact that a tenant is complaining online might be an indication the property manager dealt with them properly so be sure to ask the manager for their side of the story.

    7. Look at their marketing strategy. Are they doing everything they can to expose properties to the widest possible market? Are their listings detailed with good quality photos? Can they prove how long it takes to rent a vacant property?

    This isn't inclusive but should give you a good start. If you have specific questions about property management, I'll be happy to help!

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
  • Architect · Memphis, TN · Member since 2020 · 259 posts · 144 votes
    4y

    Very unusual Dave! 

  • Jon KellyPro Member
    Investor · Bethlehem, PA · Member since 2016 · 929 posts · 951 votes
    4y

    @Dave Jackson You hired a PM, why are you keeping the security deposits? Is this a full service PM? How much are you paying them? 

    Your last paragraph is correct. Typically, the PMs will deduct expenses from rent before sending payment to the owner. Most PMs are flexible on the amount of reserves they keep for minor expenses. You want it to be high enough to where they are consistently asking you to deposit more funds, but low enough to where you're receiving enough rental income. 

    I would interview other PMs in your area and discuss their process. You may end up making a switch. 

  • Property Manager · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2012 · 135 posts · 156 votes
    4y

    Hello @Dave Jackson It sounds like your PM is trying to get away with not having a trust account. Trust account violations is where most RE Brokers get in to trouble, so not having to deal with them is a plus for them. It's nice for them, but not always the most efficient or effective method for the Landlord. I assume it differs state to state, but in NC, we can keep deposits in the same account as the rents. We just need to make sure the accounting is handled properly. I believe your PM should maintain their own account for deposits and rents, and they can use rents for expenses. We have a $300 threshold for any single repair. For our multi-unit owners, we simply email them a quote for the make ready cost, and when they approve via email, we pull from the account once repairs are complete. For SFR individual owners, we have the same process, but may need them to send in additional funds if necessary. They typically pay via Zelle, CashApp or Venmo, which are setup to go directly in to the trust account. So they can pay half up front, then the remainder upon completion when photos are provided. Bottom line is, I feel your PM is being a bit lazy based on what you describe. Best of luck.

  • Member since 2021 · 16 posts · 5 votes
    4y

    @Drew Sygit Thank you for the information. Seems odd to me also, unfortunately I did do a lot of vetting and interviewing but since I'm in tertiary market, there weren't too many options for other property managers. Already had to fire another one in the same area. Looks like I'll have to return to the drawing board here.

  • Member since 2021 · 16 posts · 5 votes
    4y

    @Nathan Gesner I appreciate your response. I did a lot of researching and vetting and unfortunately the options for property management are very limited in my area and this is the biggest company there that seemed like the best company. The problems didn't start arising until after the fact.

    You provide good questions to ask, so thank you. I will add them to my checklist when interviewing new property managers.

  • Member since 2021 · 16 posts · 5 votes
    4y

    @Jon Kelly Yes they are a full service property management company. I agree they should hold the deposits, but because they kept drawing from them to pay bills, I decided to hold onto them myself. Not ideal, but there are unfortunately limited options in my market for property management, but I will be looking for a new one now.

    I pay the current company 10% of gross rents received, although expenses have been extremely high so sometimes I'm led to believe there's something else going on.

  • Member since 2021 · 16 posts · 5 votes
    4y

    @Steve Maginnis. I agree and you make excellent points. I'll keep this in mind when I hire the next one. Many thanks.

  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    4y

    There are actually different types of property management agreements out there. Some of the old school property managers in my market have owner account access. The advantage is that all in-flow and out-flow comes from YOUR account. They pay themselves from your account. Some PM companies collect rent and hold in their account until the end of the month, deduct expenses and then transfer to the owner. That means you see no money until the end of the month. I am not sure if that is better. You are saying they want one months rent held in your account, but in that situation they are holding one months rent in THEIR account.

    You should keep the security deposits in a separate account, but I also think the checking account needs enough working capital to pay bills. One months rent is pretty typical. It is concerning that they are not getting your approval for expenses over the approval threshold. That would be my biggest concern.

    I think most PM prefer to hold the money for a month in their account, but that is really for their protection more than it is your protection. 

  • Member since 2021 · 16 posts · 5 votes
    4y

    @Joe Splitrock Thank you for your response. Between the eight units, I'm grossing around $5,000 a month. Are you saying it's typical to leave $5,000 in the shared checking account at all times?

    My concern is that keeping too much in the account encourages them to take out money without approval first or spend more than they need to without providing an invoice first. Seems appropriate to me to keep enough for utilities and miscellaneous repairs, so about $1,000, but are you suggesting it be more? If there's that many expenses in any given month, it seems like they should be notifying me first or requesting more funds before just drawing indiscriminately.

  • Member since 2021 · 388 posts · 277 votes
    4y

    I am super wary of the fly by night property managers. and there are lots of them. I eliminate this problem by managing a limited number of properties I can manage while working full time. Greed will  not get you in any good place. As long as my properties in a good shape, good tenants are available, I am able to manage them easily,  and I have very little headache while managing I will continue to invest in real estate. Once it will become too high pressure I will value my health more than the money.

  • Rental Property Investor · Clarksville, TN · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y

    @Dave Jackson

    Weird. Never been asked to do that by any of the six property managers we've worked with.

  • Property Manager · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 728 posts · 596 votes
    4y

    @Dave Jackson

    In my state, you have to have separate accoubt for deposits.

  • Suzanne PlayerPro Member
    Attorney · New York City / Long Island, NY · Member since 2020 · 597 posts · 248 votes
    4y

    Another concern is that there are state (& sometimes local) laws that govern how security deposits are handled.  I don't know what state you are in, and am not giving you legal advice.  My point is that you need to check with a local attorney with expertise in this area that can advise you on how to handle this.  In some states, making a mistake can be way more costly than the attorney fee.  

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