Mold Complaint, Tentat Threatening Lawsuit - Advice

Mold Complaint, Tentat Threatening Lawsuit - Advice

Member since 2021 · 12 posts · 4 votes
I've had a problem tenant for months, literally from the moment he moved in. Complaint after complaint after complaint.

To cut a long story short, recently there was a leak from a pipe in the condo, nothing major. I sent a restoration company out as there was moisture to baseboards and some of the drywall in the room. They believe to have a found a tiny amount of mold, but otherwise no big issues.

Tenant calls complaining to property manager, threatening lawsuits and says he's feeling all of these illnesses and it must be because of mold.

He says his health is at risk and demands ALL of his money back spent on the property.

Because of all the drama over the last few months - they offer him a sweetheart deal because I can't take the stress any longer - ALL of his money back, which is about 4 months rent, all of his deposits back and help in finding him a new place.

He rejects the deal, doesn't want to leave, and is more interested in his legal recourse based on what the mold tests will show from the restoration company.

An insurance claim has been opened, this professional restoration process will cost thousands.

Nobody involved can figure out the logic here. He claims his health is at risk and he feels ill, but is refusing to leave the property. He keeps demanding things (like getting all his money back), we meet his demands, and he still refuses to leave.

It appears he's fishing for a lawsuit or may have one on the way, but this is bananas to me. I don't know what else I can do here.
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Las Vegas · Member since 2020 · 38 posts · 29 votes
5y
Originally posted by @Greg Scott:

If you have given the tenant everything they asked for and they elected to stay, that says a lot about their motivations to a judge.

It sounds like this business may not be for you.  These sorts of things happen all the time.  Learn to manage these bumps in the road or consider exiting.

I think you are being a little too harsh here.

Sounds like they are new to the business and the last thing you expect is someone threatening to sue you while refusing to leave the property in question, which they claim is causing them harm.

I've never come across this before. Usually most tenants I experience that have a unit issue and want out, they just want their money and want to get out. I've never seen a scenario where someone claims a unit has made them sick, they are offered all of their money back and they refuse to leave the unit making them sick.
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  • Greg ScottPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · SE Michigan · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    5y

    If you have given the tenant everything they asked for and they elected to stay, that says a lot about their motivations to a judge.

    It sounds like this business may not be for you.  These sorts of things happen all the time.  Learn to manage these bumps in the road or consider exiting.

  • Las Vegas · Member since 2020 · 38 posts · 29 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Greg Scott:

    If you have given the tenant everything they asked for and they elected to stay, that says a lot about their motivations to a judge.

    It sounds like this business may not be for you.  These sorts of things happen all the time.  Learn to manage these bumps in the road or consider exiting.

    I think you are being a little too harsh here.

    Sounds like they are new to the business and the last thing you expect is someone threatening to sue you while refusing to leave the property in question, which they claim is causing them harm.

    I've never come across this before. Usually most tenants I experience that have a unit issue and want out, they just want their money and want to get out. I've never seen a scenario where someone claims a unit has made them sick, they are offered all of their money back and they refuse to leave the unit making them sick.
  • Property Manager · Denver, CO · Member since 2021 · 667 posts · 587 votes
    5y

    @Jimmy Vance If the issue was dealt with in a timely manner AND the tenant was offered an escape hatch and didn't take it, then you should have nothing to worry about. He can claim anything he wants but if you have documentation to back up your side of the story, in the remote chance this ends up in front of a judge, the tenant will have a difficult time making a case out of this. This guy sounds irrational; let your PM handle it. 

  • Real Estate Broker · Rochester Hills, MI · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    "Nobody involved can figure out the logic here"

    He is going for a payday.  He has you on the hook, you agreed to give him all of his money back so he knows hes got you and he is now moving the goal posts.  

    Your story is a bit confusion as well, you say "tiny bit of mold" yet you opened up an insurance claim.  Also, do you know it is mold?  If not, stop using the word mold and use mold like substance or something less damming to yourself in all of your communications with everyone.  If you don't know with 100% confidence what it is, stop naming it.  

    You seem to be pursuing one option, that is good.  Another route to go is to get the city building and health and safety departments involved.  They can get this tenant out quicker then you can in todays COVID environment.

    From a legal perspective, and I am not a lawyer nor am I giving legal advice, you are in a decent position.  You seem to be dealing with the issue, offered to get the tenant out so if he is choosing to stay and continue to put his health at risk because of what he believes is in the home, that is on him.  I might even have the PM draw up an addendum and send to him spelling this all out.  Get his refusal in writing even in just text messages or emails him refusing all of his funds back and he is going to stay and sue.  He is making the choice to stay, you have been more than accommodating so that puts you in a good spot.   

    This can be a stressful business at times, no doubt about it.  

  • Member since 2021 · 12 posts · 4 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Scott M.:

    "Nobody involved can figure out the logic here"

    He is going for a payday.  He has you on the hook, you agreed to give him all of his money back so he knows hes got you and he is now moving the goal posts.  

    Your story is a bit confusion as well, you say "tiny bit of mold" yet you opened up an insurance claim.  Also, do you know it is mold?  If not, stop using the word mold and use mold like substance or something less damming to yourself in all of your communications with everyone.  If you don't know with 100% confidence what it is, stop naming it.  

    You seem to be pursuing one option, that is good.  Another route to go is to get the city building and health and safety departments involved.  They can get this tenant out quicker then you can in todays COVID environment.

    From a legal perspective, and I am not a lawyer nor am I giving legal advice, you are in a decent position.  You seem to be dealing with the issue, offered to get the tenant out so if he is choosing to stay and continue to put his health at risk because of what he believes is in the home, that is on him.  I might even have the PM draw up an addendum and send to him spelling this all out.  Get his refusal in writing even in just text messages or emails him refusing all of his funds back and he is going to stay and sue.  He is making the choice to stay, you have been more than accommodating so that puts you in a good spot.   

    This can be a stressful business at times, no doubt about it.  

    I spoke with the restoration company today. They said the tenant kept claiming there was mold. They never said there was any mold and are treating this as a water damage remediation job. The tenant called the PM and claimed there was mold found. He also kept trying to put words in their mouths, claiming there was mold in the central air unit, but there was nothing more than filthy looking coils that an AC tech company cleaned out.

    The PM is placing it in writing this morning that he requested all of his money back, we offered all of his money back, and he's refusing to leave.

  • Member since 2020 · 404 posts · 235 votes
    5y

    Isnt this the purpose of having landlord liability insurance so they can goto bat for you? Just tell the tenant to pound sand. More than likely he can't afford a lawyer and if so your insurance should represent you in this case. As long as you werent neglilent and let a leak happen under your watch and got worst. 

  • Deland, FL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Jimmy Vance:
    I've had a problem tenant for months, literally from the moment he moved in. Complaint after complaint after complaint.

    To cut a long story short, recently there was a leak from a pipe in the condo, nothing major. I sent a restoration company out as there was moisture to baseboards and some of the drywall in the room. They believe to have a found a tiny amount of mold, but otherwise no big issues.

    Tenant calls complaining to property manager, threatening lawsuits and says he's feeling all of these illnesses and it must be because of mold.

    He says his health is at risk and demands ALL of his money back spent on the property.

    Because of all the drama over the last few months - they offer him a sweetheart deal because I can't take the stress any longer - ALL of his money back, which is about 4 months rent, all of his deposits back and help in finding him a new place.

    He rejects the deal, doesn't want to leave, and is more interested in his legal recourse based on what the mold tests will show from the restoration company.

    An insurance claim has been opened, this professional restoration process will cost thousands.

    Nobody involved can figure out the logic here. He claims his health is at risk and he feels ill, but is refusing to leave the property. He keeps demanding things (like getting all his money back), we meet his demands, and he still refuses to leave.

    It appears he's fishing for a lawsuit or may have one on the way, but this is bananas to me. I don't know what else I can do here.

     40 years renting houses and apartments 
    I would be upset the same as you 

    You are doing fine 

    I would contact local real estate Atty and get them evicted.  I would imagine your lease says something about landlord can evict to make repairs 

    Fix the issue.  Rerent 
    offer NOTHING to tenant 

  • Nina ErlandsonPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2020 · 41 posts · 29 votes
    5y

    I would consult with an attorney for sure to make sure you are aware of any local and state laws and have yourself protected. Normally your PM should have a lawyer to refer you to.

    Also I wouldn’t offer to give back all the money for rent as you have no fault and the issue was attended at a timely manner.

    And also draft a letter you are releasing him from his lease commitment without penalty as he feels his health is at risk. You are taking his concern seriously and it is being investigated but meanwhile you don’t want anyone to live in fear for his health.

    I don’t think you can evict him based on him being difficult but with a good lawyer and enough evidence on your end you can put your foot down and start dictating the rules.

    I had issues with tenants and one of the issue turned out to be the PM, you need someone to be on your side and protect your best interest and not just a messanger. Make sure your PM meets that criteria.

  • Rental Property Investor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2015 · 44 posts · 23 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Jimmy Vance:
    Originally posted by @Scott M.:

    "Nobody involved can figure out the logic here"

    He is going for a payday.  He has you on the hook, you agreed to give him all of his money back so he knows hes got you and he is now moving the goal posts.  

    Your story is a bit confusion as well, you say "tiny bit of mold" yet you opened up an insurance claim.  Also, do you know it is mold?  If not, stop using the word mold and use mold like substance or something less damming to yourself in all of your communications with everyone.  If you don't know with 100% confidence what it is, stop naming it.  

    You seem to be pursuing one option, that is good.  Another route to go is to get the city building and health and safety departments involved.  They can get this tenant out quicker then you can in todays COVID environment.

    From a legal perspective, and I am not a lawyer nor am I giving legal advice, you are in a decent position.  You seem to be dealing with the issue, offered to get the tenant out so if he is choosing to stay and continue to put his health at risk because of what he believes is in the home, that is on him.  I might even have the PM draw up an addendum and send to him spelling this all out.  Get his refusal in writing even in just text messages or emails him refusing all of his funds back and he is going to stay and sue.  He is making the choice to stay, you have been more than accommodating so that puts you in a good spot.   

    This can be a stressful business at times, no doubt about it.  

    I spoke with the restoration company today. They said the tenant kept claiming there was mold. They never said there was any mold and are treating this as a water damage remediation job. The tenant called the PM and claimed there was mold found. He also kept trying to put words in their mouths, claiming there was mold in the central air unit, but there was nothing more than filthy looking coils that an AC tech company cleaned out.

    The PM is placing it in writing this morning that he requested all of his money back, we offered all of his money back, and he's refusing to leave.

     I own a remediation company (AdvantaClean Franchise) and we do air and surface testing to evaluate whether there is mold on the premises.   I agree with everyone else who said first and foremost talk to an attorney.  The other thing I'd consider you discuss with the restoration company is potentially sampling/testing for mold, once they test and it comes back within the normal range that means the tenant has no basis for their claims;  If it comes back that there is mold however, you'll have to remediate it.... also if your remediation company is telling you there is "no mold" without doing any testing, you may want to do further research and/or get a licensed mold inspector in there. 

  • Member since 2021 · 12 posts · 4 votes
    3y

    Just to give an update on how all of this played out.

    We sent a mold remediation company in August 2021 to test the place, work out any issues.

    They get there and they call me to advise me that the tenant has his own mold tester taking air samples.

    One of the bathrooms comes up with a high mold reading (on his end) - which of course it would since there was a bad flood in that room and we just got there to remediate.

    A local law firm decides to take him on. We receive a legal letter. Property manager has their attorney in play, I open insurance claim.

    He claims property made him sick in the "three months" living there.

    He's also refusing to move out, turning down several keys for cash deals, and continues paying rent.

    At one point he sent a 30-day notice to vacate, we approved, and then he refused to leave.

    We're forced to get him a hotel room while remediation is getting done.

    He kept sneaking back into the property and tearing down their plastic containments that were placed over the bathroom entrance - to prevent them from taking accurate post-work air tests. He also kept entering the property (with no protective gear) while the remediation company was working to take pictures of the work.

    While all of this is going on, he's continuously calling property manager with complaint after complaint.

    Property gets remediated with several delays due to his conduct. I stopped paying for his hotel at one point because of his conduct.

    Finally, this deadbeat goes around his own attorney to contact me directly to reach a keys for cash deal.

    Me and the property management company come together to present him with a cash offer to get him out (we went 50/50 on it) - because another 8 months of him would have been hell.

    Basically refunded his four months, and bought out his remaining eight. So yeah, it wasn't cheap but I was in a bad spot. I spoke to several lawyers, and all of them said I would win in court.

    But, most insurance carriers don't provide coverage for mold claims - and I was warned by my carrier that if they determine his claim is straight mold - they are pulling out and I have to pay out of pocket for my legal defense and may even owe the carrier money for legal fees.

    Most lawyers told me, I would win but wouldn't be able to reclaim legal fees from him because he had no assets and barely worked. One lawyer I spoke to had just finished up a mold case against the lawyer the tenant hired - and it played out for five years. That owner spent 75K in legal fees, won the case, has been unable to reclaim monies he spent.

    How did this guy get in my property? He used his mother as a co-signor - perfect credit, six-figure salary, home owner.

    But, the property manager - who was terminated by the company - never advised me this was a co-signor situation. When I got the application, I thought it was couple moving in together (son and mother have different last names). She never ran his credit, checked his referrals, job status, etc - which is why the management company went 50-50 with me to get him out, to avoid a lawsuit by me against them.

    We reached the deal, he left within 30 days, at the end of September 2021. I also made him sign an iron-clad legal release ( I was in the legal field for 10 years and had property manager's lawyer review it).

    Fast forward to today, I get a call from another investor - an out of state real estate attorney - who basically went through the same scenario with this same tenant. He moved in to this owner property in October 2021, which is right after my issue with him, and within a few months claimed he was getting sick from the home, brought in a mold guy - but this time the mold report was beyond favorable to the owner. However, he drove the owner and his property manager so crazy that they also made a keys for cash deal to get him out (although for a lot less than mine) by refunding several months rent and returning his security deposit - and also made him sign a legal release.

    He got in this guy's place by paying a full year upfront (2100 x 12, since his credit was crappy and couldn't provide income verification). The mother did not co-sign this time. The owner took a chance, he won't take that kind of chance again.

    I would love to warn the owner of the current place he's renting. I managed to find his current address, but the property records list the owner as a living trust in California and no contact information.

    The guy appears to be what some lawyers termed to me as a "career tenant."

  • Drew SygitBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    3y

    Great update

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