How much do you pay Handymen, workers, day laborers etc?

How much do you pay Handymen, workers, day laborers etc?

Investor · Los Angeles County, CA · Member since 2012 · 962 posts · 279 votes

Hi everyone we have several rentals in the Los Angeles area. For tenant turnover we often have to do basic cleaning, flooring, paint, caulk etc.

For this we go with the cheapest labor possible. I found a "handyman" worker who speaks only broken English, but enough to understand 80% of what we talk about.

So the pros are that he's generally cheaper than a contractor. I trust him for the most part. But the cons are there's a communication problem as far as English and that his prices are becoming more expensive for what his actual skills are.

Anyways I was wondering how much you generally pay for someone like this and how you pay them (per job/per hour)

I feel that in the beginning he charged very little for his services, but lately he has been increasing prices.

For instance, for a one bed one bath apartment (650 sq ft apx) with large kitchen he charged $1660 for basic cleaning and paint. I happened to be out of town for this so I just had him collect the keys so we had not agreed upon a price. For this he used a double coat of Behr Ultra Paint/primer, and had to deal with a lot of oils from the kitchen, but I still don't understand how it could be this expensive. He also claimed it took 6 days with 2 people.

We argued over this price because I have had apartment paint specialists (found through apartment associations) paint a similar apartment with basic cleaning for about $500. These people come in over 1-2 days and just spray everything with cheap paint but it will still come out looking good overall.

So how do you all set up basic systems for paying handymen? Do you pay per hour? I could see them taking their time if paid hourly. How do you set up incentives for them to do things more quickly? Or any negotiating tips would be helpful.

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Chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 93 posts · 12 votes
13y

why would you pay "per hour" at all ? I pay for the job done. need painting ? ..here is 5gallons of american finest flat and you tell me how much you want to paint the whole crib. if I start paying an hour rate .. all of them suddenly will become very slow. in general I provide material and ask for skill/labour. first question is : how soon can u get it done = X, second question is how much =Y. then do this in ur head Y/X and u get ur hourly rate ...which in some cases make a lot of sense in some cases I smile and tell them to beat it ..

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  • Real Estate Investor · Englewood, CO · Member since 2013 · 988 posts · 258 votes
    13y

    Will,

    It is my philosophy to pay more than the competition for several reasons.

    One, employee/contractor loyalty.

    Second, it is human nature to get what you think you are worth. If the pay does not equal what you think you are worth, then shortcuts and other methods come into play. Read about why people steal from the workplace for a better understanding of this reasoning.

    Finally, the old saying, you get what you pay for.

  • Investor · Los Angeles County, CA · Member since 2012 · 962 posts · 279 votes
    13y

    Thanks Tom. I like that philosophy in some ways ;) Especially when you think about quality of work.

    Now I'm trying to figure out some specifics as to what other's are paying for this type of job. Then I figure out a point to compare it to. For this example my worker requested for 3 x what I would have expected from him, although perhaps the quality was slightly better than expected.

  • Investor · Paradise Valley, AZ · Member since 2012 · 361 posts · 214 votes
    13y

    I pay 90 cents per square ft. for a two tone paint job. I pay my handyman who I have used for many years 17-25 bucks an hour depending on what he is doing.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    13y

    First, are you using someone who is insured? If not, are you willing to risk any assets you currently have should he get hurt while working for you?

    Personally, I will only use insured contractors, and I tend to pay handymen $15-20/hour in the Atlanta area, and $20-25 in other areas.

  • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 555 posts · 261 votes
    13y

    I would not hire a handyman for painting, especially considering that in CA, any job over $500 requires a license.

    That said, I think an unlicensed handyman should get no more than $22/hr. Even then, you should pay by the job, not by the hour.

    For cleaning in LA, it should be no more than $17/hour. A 1bd/1ba should take no more than 6 hours if using a good degreaser.
    That would make the cleaning part $120 max.

    10 gals of Behr ultra would be $400. That means he charged about $1100 for paint labor. Based on $22/hr, that would mean 50 man hours were spent painting your apt. Sounds a little slow.

    If he spent 6 days, hopefully he prepped it properly and you won't have paint issues down the line, considering that the kitchen was oily.

    You NEVER want someone to just spray everything for cheap. Spraying over dirt and oils will lead to massive paint failure in no time.

    Next time your apt is vacant, get five real licensed contractor estimates and pay the handyman only a fraction of that.

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Cookeville, TN · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 948 votes
    13y

    I live in a small town and the cost of living is much less, but I generally pay $10 - $15 per hour. And I have several guys that do good work and that I can trust, and they are all eager and thankful for the work. And these guys can do just about anything except lay carpet (and I do still need a sheet-rock guy). The carpet guys always want to do the work by the square foot or square yard. And based on the time that it takes them to do a job, it usually turns out to be much higher than 10-15 per hour. But it seems that they all get together and commonize on a per-yard rate.

  • Investor · Los Angeles County, CA · Member since 2012 · 962 posts · 279 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Mike Franco:
    Based on $22/hr, that would mean 50 man hours were spent painting your apt. Sounds a little slow.

    Wow Mike I think you're pretty darn close as far as pricing here.

    I think he did spend a lot of time with prep work etc. Although, his original price was going to be $1800 but after I complained he lowered it to the $1660.

    He told me that he spent about $350 on Paint and other supplies. I think he said he used 5-6 gallons of paint.

    I don't want to just nickle and dime him. I just thought that he was over charging.

    I agree that 50 hours seems a lot for a job like this. I think that he probably really spent just a few hours a day, but I was not around to inspect it.

    I feel that it's hard to turn a profit in this business without trying to get deals on labor. Especially for things that don't require as much skill like painting.

    I understand that licensed workers will have their own insurance etc, but I'm trying to turn a profit here and in LA the real estate/mortgage payments are so high...

    How much would a licensed painter or handyman charge in Los Angeles?

    Thanks everyone for your different input, helps a lot.

  • Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    I pay $50-60 per room for labor only. That's usually flat white ceiling, light beige eggshell walls, and semi gloss white trim. I'm not a fan of Behr paint. I was using Sherwin Williams, but they keep jacking their prices. I've found the Kilz Pro X to be just as good for less $.

    For handymen, I usually pay my painter to do little stuff. I have another guy that works for $15 per hour. He has a lot of skills, but kind of slow. I have another guy that will do anything for $10 per hour, but no drivers license. He's good for evictions, crawl spaces, asbestos, and other stuff that people with drivers licenses don't want to deal with.

    None of these guys have insurance. (I doubt they have health insurance and looking at their teeth, dental is probably a vast mystery to them) I purchase workman's comp. It's not that expensive and covers all of these uninsured workers. You can get a policy for $5-15 per $100 that you pay these guys, depending on what kind of work they do.

  • Investor · Los Angeles County, CA · Member since 2012 · 962 posts · 279 votes
    13y

    Rob K Hey where do you get this insurance from? Could I go directly to my renter's insurance?

    I guess that's another big risk I'm taking hiring these laborers.

    With buy and hold real estate it's really hard to find cash flow if I'm not cheap LOL.

  • Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    I purchased a work comp policy for my business from the broker that I get my car and homeowners insurance from. It was $750 up front and then I go through an audit every year which only takes about 20 minutes. They look at how much payroll I had and base the premium on that.

    If you want cheap labor, you should spend the money on insurance. I've found that most contractors are uninsured. The ones that do have insurance usually charge a fortune. Many roofers in my area are uninsured. The roofer that I use has insurance, but what if an uninsured guy fell off your roof? I don't want to risk it.

  • Investor · Los Angeles County, CA · Member since 2012 · 962 posts · 279 votes
    13y

    Thanks Rob I'm going to call my insurance guy (state farm) about this. I also don't know about taxes etc as far as how to set that up with these laborers.

    When I do things like roofs or painting 2 story buildings I try to hire licensed contractors, but I suppose they could be hiring someone unlicensed as well. It's scary thinking about liability issues. I guess that's just going to be another cost that will eat into any profit :-/ ... but it is probably worth it.

  • Investor · Mustang, OK · Member since 2013 · 33 posts · 5 votes
    13y

    I pay $15-$17 per hour

  • Chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 93 posts · 12 votes
    13y

    why would you pay "per hour" at all ? I pay for the job done. need painting ? ..here is 5gallons of american finest flat and you tell me how much you want to paint the whole crib. if I start paying an hour rate .. all of them suddenly will become very slow. in general I provide material and ask for skill/labour. first question is : how soon can u get it done = X, second question is how much =Y. then do this in ur head Y/X and u get ur hourly rate ...which in some cases make a lot of sense in some cases I smile and tell them to beat it ..

  • Commercial Real Estate Broker · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2013 · 36 posts · 11 votes
    13y

    Will F.

    My suggestion is having a contractor (or handyman) look at your units and give you a set price per unit type for the work you describe and say that this will be a recurring gig if he continues to do a good job. Then you know how much and can budget going forward. The type of work you describe should not cost $1660 even in LA where labor and materials are more expensive. How many units do you own/manage? You should be able to negotiate a deal based on volume as well.

  • Real Estate Broker · San Diego, CA · Member since 2012 · 104 posts · 20 votes
    13y

    Will F. - Look into State Fund for workers comp insurance.
    http://www.statefundca.com/.

  • Rental Property Investor · Redlands, CA · Member since 2008 · 68 posts · 11 votes
    13y

    Heres what i would have charged you so you have an idea:

    -$450 top notch pay for helper with exp. for a helper that knew how to paint. its unlikely i would pay this much unless he specialized in painting. 150x3 days tops per helper. only 1 helper needed. no way no how this should have went 3 days. personally i would have done this job on my own with no help and that would have taken 3 days by myself. I would charge an extra $50-100 if you had popcorn cielings.
    -$900 x 3 days for myself. if the help makes 150 per day you can bet your sweet *** im making double that per day
    -$50 to cover any materials i didnt already have
    -$200 40 per gallon. 4 gallons of Behr paint needed. and i would buy 1 extra gallon in case. which is already included in the price

    TOTAL $1600 THIS WOULD NOT INCLUDE CLEANING SUCH AS TOILETS OR SINKS. CLEANING THAT TYPE OF STUFF IS EXTRA. I WOULD DO THIS JOB FOR $1500 SINCE IM WILLING TO MAKE LESS PER DAY AS WELL AS MY HELP RARELY MAKES $150 PER DAY. I DO CLEAN WALLS AND THINGS PERTAINING TO THE JOB ITSELF. I AM A LICENSED/INSURED CONTRACTOR LIVING IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA SO THESE ARE PRETTY ACCURATE NUMBERS. I HAVE ALL MY TEETH AND SPEAK PERFECT ENGLISH. ON SECOND THOUGHT I WOULD HAVE CHARGED THE $1600 SINCE IM A LITTLE WAYS AWAY FROM L.A.

  • Rental Property Investor · Redlands, CA · Member since 2008 · 68 posts · 11 votes
    13y

    forgot to add, i think you got robbed !

  • Investor · Los Angeles County, CA · Member since 2012 · 962 posts · 279 votes
    13y

    Thanks guys. Yeah I think he totally overcharged for the inside of the apartment. I forgot to mention that the sq ft of the apartment is about 840.

    Anyways last week I let him paint the exterior of this 2 1/2 story triplex. The triplex is mainly stucco but has all wood paneling on the front and wood trim all around the first, second floor and the roof.

    He charged $2300 to paint the exterior wood trim around roof and on first level, also the front of the triplex, which was all damaged wood that needed a lot of replacing. This took about 4 days with 2-4 workers and had extensive wood damage.

    I feel that for this we got a better deal, as I was there most of the time to inspect it.

    PS and no I did not have insurance for this, but have spoken to my insurance agent and will have it for the next time ;P Actually the next time I will most likely use a licensed painter

  • Rental Property Investor · Kansas City MO · Member since 2013 · 147 posts · 9 votes
    13y

    I think the biggest thing I want to take from your experience is to always no matter what get the estimate ahead of time.

    J Scott when you say to get someone that is insured, exactly what types of insurance are you wanting them to have? And I assume you verify this by asking for documentation.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Shawn Sorter:

    J Scott when you say to get someone that is insured, exactly what types of insurance are you wanting them to have? And I assume you verify this by asking for documentation.

    Liability insurance at a minimum. Workers comp if they have employees or if they are doing dangerous work.

  • Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    I would highly recommend that all of you with sizeable assets, who are hiring laborers, have a workmans comp policy. It's not that expensive and you can exclude people you hire who have their own policy. You will only be paying on laborers who are uninsured.

    If you are hiring a tree trimmer or roofer, get a copy of their insurance. Call the agent to verify that it's intact. Insurance for roofers and tree trimmers is VERY expensive. Many go without. Many will tell you they are insured. As soon as you ask for a copy, their story changes.

    I hired a roofer years ago who had a 20 year old employee rest an aluminum ladder against power lines. When I saw that, I went ape(bleep). I told him to get the ladder off the lines. The "boss" told me, "That kid's a dumbass. I'm just waiting for him to get electrocuted." I switched roofers after that. You never know when someone will get hurt. If there's no insurance, you could be getting sued.

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