Tenants want LL to pay for their broken TV

[E.S. Burrell]

Hi All

Tenants lost power throughout the house. Electrician was called to investigate the problem. He said there was a power surge and got the lights working. The furnace quit working. My furnace guy said that the furnace needed a transformer. Furnace is now working. Tenant plugged in TV and TV is not working but everything else that is plugged in outlet works. Am I responsible for replacing the TV? Tenant does not have renters insurance. Thank you. I’m taking notes from your responses.

[Dawn P.]

I don't see how a power surge is the landlord's fault - they should have had renter's insurance. 

[Kyle J.]

@E.S. Burrell I didn’t read anything in what you wrote that sounded like negligence on your part or that would make you obligated to fix the TV.

If it were me, I wouldn’t pay to fix it. Things happen and I’m not in the TV warranty business. His personal property should be covered by renters insurance. If he chose not to get insurance, that’s his choice.

For what it’s worth, I have a clause in my lease that actually addresses tenant’s personal property: “Tenant’s or guest’s personal property and vehicles are not insured by Landlord, manager or, if applicable, HOA, against loss or damage due to fire, theft, vandalism, rain, water, criminal or negligent acts of others, or any other cause. Tenant is advised to carry Tenant’s own insurance (renter’s insurance) to protect Tenant from any such loss or damage.”

Might be a good idea to see if your lease has a similar clause so you can refer the tenant to it (or consider adding it to future leases if it doesn’t have it).

[Will Gaston]

@E.S. Burrell unfortunately tenants are apt to look for someone to blame when anything goes wrong at the property. It's human nature. But sometimes things just happen outside of the landlord's control and this is what it seems like here.

I would be hard pressed to pay for a tv when there's no negligence on your part. Hopefully, this will remind them to get renter's insurance from now on and also have you require it on your next tenant. These unfortunate situations are exactly why we require on all of our units. It's good for you and the tenant. 

[Mary Alexander-Brum]

I suggest owners insist on tenants using surge protectors plugged in to protect their appliances and devices as well as the property in case this ever happens.  I think I will start insisting on this and discuss with the property manager.  An electrical surge once in 2014 caused major damage at a previous employer's manufacturing plant when a single plugged in phone in the shop caused a fire. This phone was there for shop personnel who returned late in the day or night from jobsites to return equipment and material.  They also needed access to their vehicles parked onsite while they used the company trucks to haul material to the work sites very early in the morning.

An electrical surge caused by lightening and thunder one night around 12:30am was the reason.  A person walking their dog at that hour called 911 to report smoke billowing out from the roof.  This saved the plant from being completely destroyed.  We moved operations to a modular trailer for almost a year while repairs took place.  Decades of archived hard copies of contracts and other documents were damaged.  I agree with Will Gaston that renters insurance must be insisted upon or least be highly recommended much the same as a car rental company does.  Carbon monoxide monitors and smoke detectors are already mandatory in most states and adding surge protectors for devices that easily spark during inclement weather seems like an inexpensive solution.  It is time to edit the small print.

[Joe S.]

If you do get them a new TV maybe you can get them a couple of boxes of popcorn and hand-deliver it at the same time.

[Colleen F.]

Tell them to call the electric company and ask them to pay for a new TV. Seriously how is this your fault? 

[Steve Vaughan]

While I agree this isn't your fault, I also like to see the bigger 'picture'.

Because I am in the market for a tv upgrade, I know I can get a 55" smart 4k LCD qled and whatnot for $300.

Before we die on a hill that causes us anxiety, pain, indigestion and a potential turnover, keep things in perspective.  

Splitting my $300 scenario is a lousy $150. Carry on. 

[Jared Garrison]

@Steve Vaughan

While I would agree with you that it might be easier to make the tenant happy in the short term, is it going to end there? Are they going to blame the landlord for hard water stains on their favorite sweater?...A neighborhood vandal slashing their car tire?

[Steve K.]

@E.S. Burrell are the outlets grounded properly?Is it possible that you have a three-prong outlet on an ungrounded circuit? If so that could fry a TV. I’m not sure how else a TV could be damaged by an electrical circuit. Are there two-prong outlets in the house?

[Steve Vaughan]

Originally posted by @Jared Garrison:

@Steve Vaughan

While I would agree with you that it might be easier to make the tenant happy in the short term, is it going to end there? Are they going to blame the landlord for hard water stains on their favorite sweater?...A neighborhood vandal slashing their car tire?

 I wasn't saying I would replace it, just putting a max dollar figure on a problem like always for perspective and how much of my attention something deserves to occupy. 

I've seen should I install a $25 ceiling fan or $200 security deposit disputes go on for pages on here before. Perspective.  

[Sue K.]

Originally posted by @E.S. Burrell:

Hi All

Tenants lost power throughout the house. Electrician was called to investigate the problem. He said there was a power surge and got the lights working. The furnace quit working. My furnace guy said that the furnace needed a transformer. Furnace is now working. Tenant plugged in TV and TV is not working but everything else that is plugged in outlet works. Am I responsible for replacing the TV? Tenant does not have renters insurance. Thank you. I’m taking notes from your responses.

My question is - what caused the power surge?  Was it the furnace?  Or - was the tenant plugging in too many things or something?  Meaning - is it possible the tenant was the cause of the surge - and hence - wrecked your furnace?

I think what I'd do is ask the tenant if they had done anything that caused the power surge.  Did they have a bunch of stuff plugged in, etc.  Make it look like you suspect them of ruining your furnace.  Hem and haw a bit.  Tell them you need to look into what caused the power surge and you're concerned the tenant possibly caused it and you're wondering if you should charge them for the furnace.  They'll freak out and say - oh heck no!  We didn't ruin your furnace!  Tell them you're going to look into it and maybe talk to your lawyer.  Do it in a really nice way, but sound concerned about maybe having to charge them for the furnace.  You'll get back to them next week, kind of thing.

Then, miraculously tell them you've decided not to charge them for the cost of the ruined furnace, but they need to agree in writing that they will not overload the circuits in the future and how about we just call it even - you won't charge them for the furnace and they will have to replace their own TV and suggest they plug everything into surge protector strips.

And then, maybe you could be magnanimous and give them a couple surge protector strips to show them what a nice landlord you are :-)

That's what I'd do.  Been there.  And, even if you have a clause in the contract about renter's insurance, etc., they will still do this.  They don't understand renters insurance and/or are cheap and just don't understand what landlords and tenants are each responsible for.  Plus, it never hurts to try, right?

[E.S. Burrell]

Originally posted by @Steve K.:

@E.S. Burrell are the outlets grounded properly?Is it possible that you have a three-prong outlet on an ungrounded circuit? If so that could fry a TV. I’m not sure how else a TV could be damaged by an electrical circuit. Are there two-prong outlets in the house?

Hi Steve and thank you.  My electrician checked and even though there were three prong outlets, he replaced the outlet with a new one just to make sure that wasn’t the issue. We plugged other things into the outlet and the TV is the only thing that doesn’t work. 

[E.S. Burrell]

@Mary Alexander-Brum, good call. Never even thought of adding a surge clause to lease. I will moving forward. 

[James Ma]

I would just respond with a lot of good questions like Sue mentioned so they can come to the conclusion themselves this doesn't have anything to do with you.

What caused the power surge? How do we know that?

Who would be responsible for preventing that from happening?

How often has the power surge issue been happening and ongoing for?

How would the landlord be aware there is any issue to address to prevent this from happening?

[Michael Noto]

Hard no on the TV. As much as people might think so, it is not a necessity. Also there are things called SURGE protectors. Tell them to Google it. 

[Nate Fleming]

As an electrical contractor I would say that if there was a “surge” caused by the utility company (ie blown transformer) then it would not be the responsibility of the landlord.  I’m often on calls where the surge is caused by a bad connection at where the utility connects to the houses power.  At least in Ohio,  the utility never refreshes the connections unless asked to,  so you can see places that they could be 50 years old. 

I believe it is everyone’s responsibility to use surge protectors on all sensitive electronics,  whether homeowner or renter.

I would say it could fall on negligence when the “surge” is caused by faulty wiring inside the house.  Old wiring can easily cause this.  It seems like landlords here are reluctant to update wiring here,  and honestly there’s a ton not to code.  It’s frightening.

[Steven Foster Wilson]

@E.S. Burrell if these are quality tenants who you want to keep....sure throw them a free tv.

[Nathan Gesner]

I am a homeowner. If there is an electrical surge that blows my TV, it is my responsibility, not that of the mortgage company. Unless the tenant can prove negligence, or knowledge of an existing problem, the landlord is not at fault or responsible.

[Will Gaston]

Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:

Originally posted by @Jared Garrison:

@Steve Vaughan

While I would agree with you that it might be easier to make the tenant happy in the short term, is it going to end there? Are they going to blame the landlord for hard water stains on their favorite sweater?...A neighborhood vandal slashing their car tire?

 I wasn't saying I would replace it, just putting a max dollar figure on a problem like always for perspective and how much of my attention something deserves to occupy. 

I've seen should I install a $25 ceiling fan or $200 security deposit disputes go on for pages on here before. Perspective.  

 Steve, I definitely agree with you on this. I'm a big believer in letting the small things go. You're one of the few that truly has perspective on these forums. 

However, I tried this exact scenario several years ago when a tenant accused my handyman of stepping on their washing machine and breaking it while fixing a roof repair. My handyman denied touching it and he knows that I would happily pay for any mistakes he happens to make while on the job. He is trustworthy, been with me forever, etc.

I offered to split the cost of a new washing machine with the tenant as no proof was provided that my handyman did anything. The tenant then threatened me with a lawsuit. 

My point is sometimes accepting partial responsibility or splitting the cost does not work with some people. It can escalate the situation even further.

[Zeke Liston]

Originally posted by @E.S. Burrell:

Hi All

Tenants lost power throughout the house. Electrician was called to investigate the problem. He said there was a power surge and got the lights working. The furnace quit working. My furnace guy said that the furnace needed a transformer. Furnace is now working. Tenant plugged in TV and TV is not working but everything else that is plugged in outlet works. Am I responsible for replacing the TV? Tenant does not have renters insurance. Thank you. I’m taking notes from your responses.

I would agree with the above comments, this isn't on you and you should not be held responsible. 

[Jim K.]

I completely agree with @Steve Vaughan on this one. I too have found that you can passionately insist on your rights or you can stack cheddar in this business, rarely both. As a landlord with a brain, you have to remember that part of the reason tenants are tenants are their money management skills. They live in terror of unexpected expenses.

There is also something to be said for @Will Gaston's point. But this power surge was bad enough so that even the furnace blew. Even in my area of aging infrastructure, that's pretty bad, not at all a normal event. I would definitely help them buy a new TV, but I would be careful to go no further.

What really clinches it, though, is that this is the TV. Many tenants' lives center around the idiot box. They spend many hours a day in front of it. Do you want them looking at their new TV all day and remembering that you wouldn't help spring to replace it? Or do you want them sitting in front of an even bigger one in their spare time, blissfully being reminded that the blacks are blacker and pixels are smaller because of their caring landlord? A landlord's money is best spent when it is highly visible to the tenant. This fulfills that basic principle of landlording.

[Account Closed]

@E.S. Burrell

No you are not responsible. This is why tenant insurance exists and should be required in your lease. Point them to an insurance provider and call it a day.

[Joe Splitrock]

Power surge is an act of God. It is no different than flooding, earthquakes, robbery, etc. Unless there is some reason that a landlords actions lead to the problem or you own the item that got damaged, you should not be responsible. Tell them it sucks, you had to sink money into a furnace due to the issue so you feel their pain...

[Bob Stevens]

@E.S. Burrell  NO, they should have had a power surge strip.  Let me guess very low income tenants ?

Good Luck

[Steve K.]

@E.S. Burrell Well considering you had an electrician check the outlet and it’s okay, I’d tell them to pound sand. I was asking if it was ungrounded because sometimes people replace a two-prong outlet with a 3-prong and don’t add a ground to that circuit which is a setup that can damage electronics or even cause a fire if something like an electric space heater is plugged in. The electrician would have known to check the outlet for a ground wire and other potential defects like aluminum wiring, so you should be good. In your situation I’d probably be empathetic and say I’m sorry that this occurred, then explain to them there is nothing wrong with the electrical system in the house but rather it was the transformer which belongs to the electric utility that malfunctioned, then offer to give them the contact info for the utility in case they want to call them and ask for a new TV from them (good luck with that). Encourage them to use surge protectors on any expensive electronics in the future.