Tenant installed security camera

Tenant installed security camera

Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

Okay, some back story.  Small multi-family C+ property...

About a year ago, one of my tenants complained to me that packages were being stolen off the front porch of the duplex she lives in and wanted a security camera installed.  (The house next door has one, which is probably where she got the idea.)

My response was for her to ask the delivery people to put packages in the rear.  She says she did, but they still keep delivering some packages to the front.  (I have no reason not to believe her - it's an extra 20 paces, and in my experience some of the shipping companies can be lazy.)

I told her I would not be installing a camera, but if she did the research and cleared it with me before purchasing one, I would install it.  (The lease stipulates that written permission from the landlord must be given prior to alterations.)  She said did not have the money for it and we left it at that in August of 2017.

Well, this morning I get a text from her downstairs neighbor asking me why a security camera was installed on the porch.

Granted, I'm still early in the "investigating" process (I requested a pic of the camera from the complaining neighbor, but she was at work) and I have obviously not yet addressed this with the upstairs tenant (whom, I presume, is the one who installed the camera - apparently a wifi model), but I'm trying to decide how I feel about this.

First, I did not give permission (lease violation) and the camera was not installed by me or at my direction, so I have no idea where it is mounted or whether it is piercing the envelope of my siding, or caused some other damage or issue.  So, that's one concern and that needs to be dealt with regardless.  I was there a few days ago and ran into this tenant, and no mention was made about a camera being installed.

The second is the unintended consequence of the downstairs neighbor and, frankly - anyone who enters through the front vestibule (including me) - is now "on camera" that is presumably being monitored exclusively and recorded by the upstairs tenant.  (In newer versions of my lease, I have a clause that states there is no expectation of privacy in common areas and the exterior for just this purpose I wanted to avail myself of such an option, but the current leases of the tenants in question do not that particular language.)  I am assuming that the downstairs tenant may have a problem with the camera being there.  However, she may have just been asking out of curiosity or a safety concern.  Like I said, I have not proceeded any further until I get some context by seeing the camera myself (via pic or in person).

Both tenants are good tenants and do not cause any trouble and pretty much keep to themselves (both are single women living alone, FWIW).  They are low maintenance.

I personally have zero interest in installing a camera of my own at the property (many reasons, including: one more thing to maintain, no internet in my name at property, cost, any other issues like this that arise because of it, etc.), but I'm having trouble forming an opinion about this, so I'd love some feedback - pros, cons, etc.  Not having walked in these particular shoes before, I don't have the benefit of any foresight as to what issues may arise.

Thanks in advance for your collective insight.

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Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
7y

First concern is damage to the property. Second is down stairs tenant. Find out her concerns, maybe sell her on the security aspect being that she is a singe woman. If she has a computer with wi-fi she should have the access code so that she can use it as well. If not then it is a intrusion in her privacy and you may have to have it removed. If it was yours it may be a different issue but since it is another tennats that is definatly a privacy issue unless they can both monitor it. 

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  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    7y

    First concern is damage to the property. Second is down stairs tenant. Find out her concerns, maybe sell her on the security aspect being that she is a singe woman. If she has a computer with wi-fi she should have the access code so that she can use it as well. If not then it is a intrusion in her privacy and you may have to have it removed. If it was yours it may be a different issue but since it is another tennats that is definatly a privacy issue unless they can both monitor it. 

  • Rental Property Investor · St. Petersburg, FL · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    @Wesley W. You probably installed the camera when it was requested. At least you would know that it was installed correctly. If it solves an obvious security issue, I would have no problem installing a ring type doorbell camera or something like that
  • Rental Property Investor · St. Petersburg, FL · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    Meant to say "should have"
  • Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Thomas S. my perspective is identical to yours at this point.

    Update in the last 5 minutes:  Downstairs tenant sent a pic.  It looks like it is attached to the decorative metal scrolling on the porch railing, so even though the image is grainy and dark, I don't think there is any damage to the property.

    Before approaching the upstairs tenant, I will have a face-to-face conversation with the downstairs tenant.  I've already arranged that for later this weekend.  At that point, I'll determine her level of concern (or not) before approaching the upstairs tenant.

    I love the idea of suggesting the she share the code with the downstairs neighbor.  I'm not too tech savvy, so I was not aware but that is a great benefit!

  • Catskill, NY · Member since 2018 · 636 posts · 668 votes
    7y

    If the only reason she wanted a camera is because her packages were being stolen, a simpler solution would be for her to leave a note on her door requesting packages not be left at all. I work for USPS so I see the laziness of some delivery people  first hand and agree that a lot of them probably don't/won't walk the extra 20 steps to the back of the house. Packages are supposed to be left only in safe areas. I guess if the camera is already installed (without damage) and the downstairs neighbor is ok with it after you talk to her, then I would just let it go. Maybe just mention to her again that she needs permission for those types of things from now on.

  • Rental Property Investor · Upstate, NY · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    We had a tenant that did the same. Then added an ADT system inside the apartment all because they were convinced their place was being broken into. They claimed checks & cash were missing. Months later the wife is caught with street bought oxycodone & finally breaks down & admits she was doing all the break ins. Exactly what the Troopers surmised from day 1. Husband & wife split & they paid up gave 30days & left. 

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
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    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    7y

    I would allow it on two conditions:

    1. No damage to the property and/or tenant repairs damage and returns it to the original condition; and

    2. Camera must be placed in a manner that does not allow recording of other property occupants without their permission.

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