Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 1 vote
Hey guys,
My new tenant moved in last month and before she had even moved in her things, she had painted two of the bedrooms as well as the baseboards and door frames white (the rest of the house is light oak). She had several cans throughout the house as well, as if she had plans to paint even more. If a lease states that no alterations are to be made to the property without written permission, is this grounds for eviction? It is spelled out in the lease that eviction can occur if the lease terms are violated.
This tenant recently sold her brand new home and is now living in my 1,000 sq ft home built in 1950 and she bombards me daily with complaints about things being old and gross (literally), even asking us to replace all of the electrical outlets and build regular closet doors (ours are floor to ceiling metal doors). I realize I can't evict her for being annoying, but if I can use this as leverage I intend to. The rental property is in Missouri.
Also, she paid for the entire year up front, in the event that she was evicted, I'm not legally obligated to refund that money if she was in violation of her lease, correct?
(Again, I'm not planning on doing that, I just feel as if she doesn't truly understand what she got herself into)
Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
8y
Note: We rarely give a flat out "No", but the result is often the same. It's easier for tenants to accept the outcome if they can understand our reasoning. We have some standard responses to over-the-top demands:
"That would be very difficult."
"We're not prepared to do that."
"The house rents for XXX per month for the condition it was in when you began your tenancy. Changes and upgrades cost money. If we make the changes you request, it could result in an increase in rent. How important is XXX (the request) to you?"
"XXX (the request) would be nice have, but this place doesn't have that. If that's what you need, then maybe this house/apartment isn't the best fit for you. You could consider finding a different place to live."
"Well that's an idea. We'll consider it and get back to you."
"That doesn't work for us."
"This isn't working for us, and it seems it isn't working for you either. It's time to talk about a move-out plan."
---------
If a tenant breaks a term of the rental agreement, we address it as soon as we become aware of it. Regarding damages, the conversation might start off with the phrase "What happened here?" Open ended questions elicit more information. We charge for damages as they occur or as we learn of them for two reasons... 1. It reinforces the terms of our rental agreement and 2. If we waited until the end of tenancy the security deposit would rarely be enough. It's also an opportunity to discuss again the terms of the rental agreement. If we can't resolve the problem with a gentle reminder, then we will serve a "Notice to Comply".
1. It's customary in our industry to accept rent in advance for only one month at a time. Sometimes with students who receive housing funds, perhaps a quarter or semester at a time. It's a red flag when a tenant wants to pay for a year in advance. If you get a chance, see the landlord thriller "Pacific Heights". :-)
2. Do you have a strong lease that is worded clearly? Did you review that terms of the agreement with the tenant and emphasize key points? Did you build in penalties when a tenant breaks one of the most significant terms?
3. If a tenant did what this tenant did in the first month, clearly a violation of the rental agreement, I would immediately review the rental agreement again with her. I would also require her to cease these actions and I would charge her now for what it would take to restore the unit to it's original condition. Then I would set that money aside for use later, so she could continue to live in the place with the cosmetic changes she already made. If she continued to make changes without my prior written consent, then I would again serve her proper legal notices each time. Each time we serve a legal notice, we also charge a $20 service fee. It doesn't take long for tenants to come into compliance.
4. Consider that some of her observations about the house may point to habitability issues that would need to be resolved by you. Have you had the electrical safety checked by a qualified electrician? Non-grounded outlets and too few outlets are common in houses from the 1950s. You will notice tenants will overload outlets if they don't have what they need, which can become a fire hazard. Also, older buildings may have lead-based paint, so you should at a minimum give her the EPA booklet "Protect Your Family From Lead In Your Home" and sign a disclosure document about what you know or don't know about lead in the home.
5. In my jurisdiction we can evict for "no cause", so it's easy to end a month-to-month tenancy at any time when it's no longer working for us. This gives us more negotiating power. Tenants know this and are careful not to cross us. Unfortunately, you've locked yourself into a longer term lease. Perhaps in your jurisdiction in Missouri it wouldn't be possible to evict for "no cause". When you need to evict for "cause" it most often requires giving the tenant the chance to correct their behavior and come back into compliance with the rental agreement.
6. When it just isn't working for us and it's obvious it's not the best situation for the tenant either, we try to negotiate a "move out plan"..... see BP Podcast #83. This is much cleaner, less costly, and also more swift than an eviction through the courts. If the place doesn't meet her needs, you may want to let her break the lease without penalty and move on.
Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
8y
Yes, you have to refund her money. You can't keep rent for months that you kicked them out.
You could require that the walls be returned to the color and condition they were in when they vacate, and use the deposit to cover it. Keep in mind that most judges are probably not going to be too sympathetic to a lawsuit over a free paint job unless the colors are atrocious. You have an old house, not the Taj Mahal.
If it were me, I would simply let them know in writing that any alterations must be returned to original condition at lease end or they will be held liable for damages.
Gainesville, FL · Member since 2013 · 127 posts · 21 votes
8y
Eviction is expensive, and if she's doing a bad job with the paint, maybe her security deposit will cover most of the cost of repainting the house if you let her complete the lease? As for keeping the year's rent, that's unlikely. You would probably be obligated to mitigate your damages after evicting her, which would mean finding a replacement tenant, giving the evicted tenant grounds to demand a refund of her prepaid rent.
Hayward, CA · Member since 2017 · 91 posts · 40 votes
8y
Sorry for the pain this renter is bringing into your life.
Definitely let them know the house has to be returned to its original condition(ex. Paint color) upon move out and hopefully u have a sizable deposit to cover the “damages”
Just inform them nothing will be change out unless it’s broken.
I feel like once they settle in, it would be better.
Since u have a year worth of rent, I feel like u have the upper hand.
Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 1 vote
8y
Thanks! I already spoke with her about the paint, she agreed not to do anything else unless she has written permission (though her excuse was that the tan paint was old and needed to be redone). I am just really bothered by the fact that she had no respect for our agreement and is now demanding all of these repairs be done at my expense.
She recently told me that the oven is broken (it is working, it is just old and takes longer to cook than her new GE one) and she is throwing a fit that I wont just buy a new one (the current one has a flat top and is evidently rare to find at a decent price). If we buy a regular one with a "normal" top, we will have to remove part of the wall behind it or the stove will stick out about an inch. When I pointed that out to her she began listing off all of the things she dislikes about the house. I'm just at my wits end trying to remain professional LOL
Real Estate Agent · Bellingham, WA · Member since 2017 · 427 posts · 182 votes
8y
As others have said, you absolutely have to return the money. It is not a damage silo site, it is rent. You can keep the damage deposit against cost of repainting the property. None of that is legal advice, just opinion.
For her complaints, did she tour the property before hand? If so, tough, she saw it and said it was in acceptable condition. If she doesn’t like it, and doesn’t want to replace those things herself, she needs to live with it, as they all sound cosmetic only. (Just be sure they are. Loose outlets can be a hazard. )
As an alternative, you could leverage her for a cheap rehab. What I mean is you can sit down and tell her the above: the changes she wants are cosmetic, non-material things that do not affect her quality of life or safety. If she is insistent on the changes though, you can do one of two things.
1) She can split the cost on mutually agreed items with you. 2) items you don’t agree to split but agree can be changed, she can pay for herself, but the changes will remain after she leaves, and any negative changes or repairs that need to come from her changes will be taken out of her damage deposit.
Once again, none of that is legal advice, so take from it what you will.
Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 1 vote
8y
She did view the property beforehand and actually told my agent that showed her the house that she would handle most of the cleaning that still needed to be done and that the cosmetic stuff wasn't an issue. What actually happened was that her credit score is a 600, her yearly income is $10k, and she has two pit bulls. The only reason we chose her is because she could pay for the year up front (she is also a "widow trying to rebuild" and we are kind people). She is thinking that now that she is "in" she can make demands. Thank you for the advice, the things she is complaining about are all cosmetic and just normal wear and tear for an old property. She received $110,000 from the sale of her house, so I think she just doesn't understand we don't have that much.
Walnut Creek, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
8y
Why not sell her the house then and let her do whatever she pleases to it? This sounds like poor screening though and this situation is a result of that. You'd probably be well served by spending 20 mins or so reading MO landlord rules/laws.....
Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 1 vote
8y
Poor screening? Do your applications have a box for "spoiled brat"? She had good references and paid rent for the whole year plus a huge deposit. The only issue we're having is her delusional sense of entitlement.
Property Manager · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
8y
Carrie Nevins I agree. You can't screen for being a brat and I would have let her in my house too. I'll go out on a limb and guess you are saying yes too much. Start saying no. No I'm not changing your outlets. Remind her this is older home is in the same condition when you looked at it and rented it. If you want a brand new house go rent one and let me know when the faucet starts leaking. Better now while you still can.
Good luck!
Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 1 vote
8y
Thank you, Josh. I finally did say exactly what you suggested tonight. I have been trying to avoid bringing "emotions" into our relationship, but I honestly am just tired of being told how awful everything is for her. I told her that unless there is something that needs repair to not contact me anymore. :(
Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
8y
Note: We rarely give a flat out "No", but the result is often the same. It's easier for tenants to accept the outcome if they can understand our reasoning. We have some standard responses to over-the-top demands:
"That would be very difficult."
"We're not prepared to do that."
"The house rents for XXX per month for the condition it was in when you began your tenancy. Changes and upgrades cost money. If we make the changes you request, it could result in an increase in rent. How important is XXX (the request) to you?"
"XXX (the request) would be nice have, but this place doesn't have that. If that's what you need, then maybe this house/apartment isn't the best fit for you. You could consider finding a different place to live."
"Well that's an idea. We'll consider it and get back to you."
"That doesn't work for us."
"This isn't working for us, and it seems it isn't working for you either. It's time to talk about a move-out plan."
---------
If a tenant breaks a term of the rental agreement, we address it as soon as we become aware of it. Regarding damages, the conversation might start off with the phrase "What happened here?" Open ended questions elicit more information. We charge for damages as they occur or as we learn of them for two reasons... 1. It reinforces the terms of our rental agreement and 2. If we waited until the end of tenancy the security deposit would rarely be enough. It's also an opportunity to discuss again the terms of the rental agreement. If we can't resolve the problem with a gentle reminder, then we will serve a "Notice to Comply".
1. It's customary in our industry to accept rent in advance for only one month at a time. Sometimes with students who receive housing funds, perhaps a quarter or semester at a time. It's a red flag when a tenant wants to pay for a year in advance. If you get a chance, see the landlord thriller "Pacific Heights". :-)
2. Do you have a strong lease that is worded clearly? Did you review that terms of the agreement with the tenant and emphasize key points? Did you build in penalties when a tenant breaks one of the most significant terms?
3. If a tenant did what this tenant did in the first month, clearly a violation of the rental agreement, I would immediately review the rental agreement again with her. I would also require her to cease these actions and I would charge her now for what it would take to restore the unit to it's original condition. Then I would set that money aside for use later, so she could continue to live in the place with the cosmetic changes she already made. If she continued to make changes without my prior written consent, then I would again serve her proper legal notices each time. Each time we serve a legal notice, we also charge a $20 service fee. It doesn't take long for tenants to come into compliance.
4. Consider that some of her observations about the house may point to habitability issues that would need to be resolved by you. Have you had the electrical safety checked by a qualified electrician? Non-grounded outlets and too few outlets are common in houses from the 1950s. You will notice tenants will overload outlets if they don't have what they need, which can become a fire hazard. Also, older buildings may have lead-based paint, so you should at a minimum give her the EPA booklet "Protect Your Family From Lead In Your Home" and sign a disclosure document about what you know or don't know about lead in the home.
5. In my jurisdiction we can evict for "no cause", so it's easy to end a month-to-month tenancy at any time when it's no longer working for us. This gives us more negotiating power. Tenants know this and are careful not to cross us. Unfortunately, you've locked yourself into a longer term lease. Perhaps in your jurisdiction in Missouri it wouldn't be possible to evict for "no cause". When you need to evict for "cause" it most often requires giving the tenant the chance to correct their behavior and come back into compliance with the rental agreement.
6. When it just isn't working for us and it's obvious it's not the best situation for the tenant either, we try to negotiate a "move out plan"..... see BP Podcast #83. This is much cleaner, less costly, and also more swift than an eviction through the courts. If the place doesn't meet her needs, you may want to let her break the lease without penalty and move on.
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
8y
I stopped reading after the first few comments. Stop communicating verbally. Require her to submit all her requests in writing but preface the conversation with a reminder that she knew what she was renting. If she's unhappy, let her terminate her lease early and go find another place that's in perfect shape for the same price that will accept her dogs and demanding attitude.
Augusta, GA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
8y
I agree with what Marcia and Nathan have suggested...
ALL non-emergency repair requests are to be in writing. Typically landlords would describe emergency repair requests along the line of involving "fire, flood or blood" (if this helps).
One would assume that a tenant with a lousy credit score, two pitbulls and a yearly income that places her on poverty status would be grateful any landlord would rent to her. However, that's often not the case. In this instance this woman has been a homeowner (and previously living in a new house) so there are two strikes against her liking being a renter and living in an older place.
I do like the suggestion that, if she continues to be a royal pain in a low spot you either consider offering to let her buy your house (if you are interested in selling it) or offering her the "Happy Clause"; however, in doing the latter you'd have to return any unused rent. If she buys the place she can fancy it up all she wants.
At any rate, print her up some forms she can send to you via snail mail when she has some legitimate repairs to be made and, if need be, block her daily complaints about things being old and gross.
Sorry to say but you are not equipped to deal with tenants, especially this type. So far every decision you have made from screening to dealing with issues and tenant complaints (management) has been wrong and worsened your situation. Your learning curve in this business will be very steep or short lived.
You have received plenty of good advice. Question now is whether you have what it takes to do the job. This is a business that requires hard lines and strict enforcement of policy.
Poor screening? Do your applications have a box for "spoiled brat"? She had good references and paid rent for the whole year plus a huge deposit. The only issue we're having is her delusional sense of entitlement.
That's the problem she's using that advanced rent as leverage against you. If she hadn't paid that year upfront would she still of met your criteria? If she didn't pay that upfront would you of even listened to her requests probably not. If you aren't get familiar with your land lord laws so you know what you must provide and operate within that.... then you can simply deny her requests that are outside of the lease rather than looking to evict her.
Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 1 vote
8y
Hi Thomas,
I'm not sure which decisions you are referring to, as the only thing that has really gone wrong was her decision to paint (which I have already dealt with and will be taking out of her deposit). I haven't given into any of her demands, was simply asking if others had evicted based on a lease violation such as this one. I'm not trying to make a future out of investing in real estate properties, so I really could care less if I "have what it takes."
Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 1 vote
8y
Hi Matt,
You are correct, she is thinking that because she paid so much in advance she can throw her weight around. At this point, she can take it or leave it, but she agreed to live in the house as-is, so that is what she will get.
