Noooooo tenant is 10 days late on rent. What to do ???

[Isiah Ferguson]

Basically I've posted a late notice on a tenant door. It pretty much stated May 15, 2017 which is today is her deadline and 19th is when the court precedings will begin. I text you this am and reminded her of the late payment and this is her response " Good morning, My available funds on my social security disability account have still not been released, they have identified who the individual was that fraudulently used my debit card and charges have been filed. Still I understand that doesn't solve my rent payment, I'm meeting with my pastor this morning I have explained my situation and I believe my church family is going to help me get my rent paid. Again I apologize for the inconvenience I have caused the company !! I'm really fighting as hard as I can mentally and physically not to be put out of my home !! I'm currently fighting incurable terminal kidney disease stage 3 daily plus diabeties and diabetic nerve damage in both legs , along with upper and lower bulging discs in my back. I'm not asking for pity just for a little understanding that I am really and truly a good tenant....I've just been put in an extenuating circumstance !! I will contact you and make immediate deposit as soon as I get my rent payment !! Sincerely Janice " 

Any suggestions ? She been a day late twice before. Never really no real issues. Overall a decent tenant but this is a business. What should I do ? 

[Tony Gunter]

Start and follow through with eviction proceedings. No further thought required.

Next question...

[Corey Jacobs]

We have multiple Social Security and Disability tenants. Every si gle one geta paid on the 3rd of the month. There should be no reason that the rent has not been paid yet. Follow through with your processes.

[Ian Walsh]

Stick to the guidelines of the lease.  In ours, a tenant has until the 15th and then eviction is filed.

[Nicole A.]

@John Nachtigall After seeing the text that the OP shared with us, do you truly still not think the tenant is likely lying and likely taking advantage of his kindness?

[Melissa McGuire]

I must in advance ask your forgiveness for what I'm about to put out there.  I know you guys are in the business of renting homes, this is how you pay for YOUR family's to live to eat, send YOUR kids to college. you all have worked so very hard for so very long and don't deserve to be taken advantage of. First off are you able to verify that any of the things being told to you are true? Are they as ill as it appears they are? Were you aware of their income coming from Social Security? Has this tenant been a good or bad tenant? how long have you been their land lord. There were several post that frankly angered me and to be blunt  left me a little ashamed at people in OUR  industry. I have first hand seen with my own two eyes ssi give a check to a "payee" who had been reported as abusing that position and for a solid year taken every dime of a young women's check and then brought them enough hot dogs for them to eat for a month. THAT'S IT HOT DOGS no cleaning supplies no paper products no hygiene HOT DOGS, after I took this person to ssi to report the "payee" they took a report and turned right around and gave the payee one more check and of course they didn't even get hot dogs that month. If it hadn't been for the church and the help of some other friends I'm not sure what  would have happened.  I've carried on to much and there's so much more I could say. Not everyone is a dirt bag not everyone is trying to get over on someone.  This all being said I'm not saying you should let anyone lie to you or take advantage of you or your family because bottom line that's exactly what would be happening.  But suppose it's all true. I would verify as much of the story as I could. Once done ask yourself, can I add a burden to a being who ( if the story is true) probably can't take another sorrow.  If on the other hand it doesn't pass the sniff test then your path is clear, go by the letter of the law and regain possession of the rental and find a new renter.  I just think that we in the industry need to remember that our tenants are our bread and butter without people who pay rent every month, month after month year after year we wouldn't be able to do the things for our families we work so hard every day to do. Does that make sense. Long and the short if the persons is telling the truth you must show compassion and give a little extra time, If you've been deceived then don't become emotionally involved with it follow the letter of the law regain you possession and find a new renter. I bet I didn't help with the post but I hope I opened some hearts and minds up to a different prospective. Not all renters are dirt bags looking to get over on you. I really hope that I haven't offended anyone. It was only my intent to show another side of the issue.

[Patrick L.]

While it would be nice to feel bad for everyone and cut them all a break doing so would end up putting you out of business.  I can't count the number of excuses tenants have given me and unfortunately the ones that are true get lost in all the lies and I can't make special accommodations for any of them.    I hear all the time that my bank account was hacked, my check was screwed up/late, I lost my wallet and I had all the rent money in it, my car got repoed and the rent money was in the glove box.  

[Account Closed]

A thought experiment:

Imagine you own a widget store.  Widgets are expensive, each costing hundreds or even thousands of dollars.  One of your regular customers, Jane Deadbeat, comes into your store and buys a widget from you every month.  But this month Jane took a widget off your shelf, and walked out of the store without paying you for it.  Every time you call Jane asking for payment for the widget, she has a new story about why she can't pay for the widget.  But she is having no problems enjoying the widget that she didn't pay for, and definitely has no intention of returning it to the store.

No pay.  No Stay.  GTFO.

[Account Closed]

A quick google search says that in NC, you have to give them a 10-day pay or quit notice.  If you are giving this to them on the 15th, you are giving them almost a month of free rent before you even start the eviction process.  Why do you have 15 free days built into the lease?  Is that required in NC?  I would be posting the notice as soon as the deadline hits and I don't have the money in hand.  If you post a notice on the 2nd and they pay immediately, because they are forgetful or whatever, that's fantastic.  Some people can't remember what day it is and need reminders.  But don't wait 2 weeks to "remind" them with a notice (unless required by NC for some reason.)

[John Nachtigall]

@Nicole A.

If you are asking my opinion...

The only truly known facts are that she is late with the rent and didn't send the requested documentation.   Everything else, from her disability to her excuses is asserted.  So I think it is still quite possible it is true or false. I think it is pretty obvious she lacks any kind of coping or problem solving skills, because even if this is a con it will be revealed soon enough.   My opinion is probably that it is "half true".  She gave someone access to her account she knew and they screwed her and so she is moving it down the chain (how is that for filling in story)

That said, I would still give her to the 1st.   I know many here think that is "soft" but I view it as the logical best step.  Think of it in risk (cost) /benefit terms.

If you proceed, in court, she is going to give the same story.  And that is how many days from now?   And she is going to add that you gave her a whole 10 days (or whatever the count is) to fix it.   You are unreasonable...evil landlord....blah.   Out here in SAn Francisco her disability could complicate the eviction, I don't know about NC.   Or even worse it makes the press and people like Mellisa McGuire above are outraged and start to apply pressure for you to change your mind.   Also see my previous post on being a good tenant, I.e. Stable income and long term

If you wait till the 1st (2 weeks) she could either pay (because it was all true) or now her story is exposed and her court case is diminished.

So the question is not really do I believe her, I still mostly do, she just has bad problem solving skills.   The question is do you want to risk evicting a previously decent customer (tenant) or wait 2 weeks and be sure.   for 2 weeks you get a lot of benefit and very little cost.   And yes, emotionally I would rather be the person that gives her a break, even if she is taking advantage, because maybe it is true.

As a side note, I am surprised by the attitude about tenets in this thread and other threads like it.   They are customers, not an inconvenience to be overcome.  Without them you can't succeed.  They are also human, and therefore all different.  If 10 tenets lied to you previously, that says nothing about the probability that the 11th is lying to you.   That situation is independent of the previous 10.   Quick story, I was watching Live PD last night and they observed a woman hand a bag to a guy at 1am in a high drug area.   They pulled her over and she said it was an alarm clock.  They obviously assumed she was lying (as did the rest of the known universe).  They found the guy and sure enough, it was an alarm clock (shock).   She was telling the truth, no matter how improbable and they did their jobs by investigating despite being sceptical.   Despite 999/1000 people lying to them before.  So my question back is that are all tenets liars?...or do you treat each situation independently?  

[Nicole A.]

@John Nachtigall You do give some great points. Thank you for that. I do agree that some landlords on here (*cough cough* @Thomas S.*wink* *wink*) tend to talk quite negatively about tenants in general. I personally do treat each situation independently. I would say I also have become pretty good about reading people. Generally, the more long and detailed the story, the more likely it is not true. I have a tenant who always gave these excuses. Gov't stopped giving her her disibility check but she was fighting it. She was in a bus accident and had a huge check coming her way "any day now." She start selling purses on Ebay and making great money. So I worked with her and believed her. Time kept going by. Sometimes she'd send a bit of money but never the full amount. She ended up 2 months behind. I couldn't continue with this, so I filed for rent court. Amazingly, she found all the money for those 2 month's rent plus court fees. Yet, she is still behind every month. While she had the money to pay off the eviction process, she got too far behind to easily catch up. So I didn't really help her by waiting and letting months of rent pile up. Every month, I just file for rent court to ensure she continues to pay. No drama. No more excuses/promises either.

So, for a new tenant that is late early on in the lease, I would act immediately because I feel this sets the tone. I know eviction laws are different everywhere. Some places, you simply start the process by posting a notice on their door. Other places, such as Maryland, you start by filing a "Failure to Pay Rent" which then sets rent court a couple/few weeks later...and it's fast, like traffic court.

I also like to think of starting the process of eviction as an "insurance" of sorts. If the tenant is being truthful and actually pays, great! I can cancel the process. Depending on the situation, I might even waive the court cost of me having to file that paperwork.

I just think on this website in particular, new landlords can be swayed into waiting, believing, not filing, etc....and many times they end up wasting time and losing more money by doing that. Then they may become super jaded and cold....not bending for a thing in the world!

[Nathan Gesner]

@Isiah Ferguson Again, if the "Pastures wife" had a family emergency, why wouldn't she call you right away to let you know? Either a terrible communicator or a terrible liar. I suspect the latter.

Those of us with a lot of Landlord experience have heard these same excuses over and over. We obviously do not know the facts but are basing our opinion on our experience. Forgive us if we're a little jaded.

[James Wise]

Originally posted by @Isiah Ferguson:

Basically I've posted a late notice on a tenant door. It pretty much stated May 15, 2017 which is today is her deadline and 19th is when the court precedings will begin. I text you this am and reminded her of the late payment and this is her response " Good morning, My available funds on my social security disability account have still not been released, they have identified who the individual was that fraudulently used my debit card and charges have been filed. Still I understand that doesn't solve my rent payment, I'm meeting with my pastor this morning I have explained my situation and I believe my church family is going to help me get my rent paid. Again I apologize for the inconvenience I have caused the company !! I'm really fighting as hard as I can mentally and physically not to be put out of my home !! I'm currently fighting incurable terminal kidney disease stage 3 daily plus diabeties and diabetic nerve damage in both legs , along with upper and lower bulging discs in my back. I'm not asking for pity just for a little understanding that I am really and truly a good tenant....I've just been put in an extenuating circumstance !! I will contact you and make immediate deposit as soon as I get my rent payment !! Sincerely Janice " 

Any suggestions ? She been a day late twice before. Never really no real issues. Overall a decent tenant but this is a business. What should I do ? 

 If she doesn't pay on time you have to evict her. All the other stuff Kidney disease, legs, diabetes etc. is irrelevant and only there to distract you from the issue at hand, which is your rent payment.

I can't walk into Walmart and get a free gallon of Milk because of Kidney disease. This is the same thing. 

[Andrew Johnson]

John Nachtigall Nicole W. I think what most experienced landlords develop is pattern-recognition. Banks use patterns to decide who to lend to. Credit card companies use patterns to decide what your credit limit is. For a period of time, lenders *stopped* looking for patterns and fact-checking they lended to people based on "they are telling the truth". So a waiter ends up with a $500K mortgage on a property in Fontana. Then 2007 happens...

A lot of property owners (in the beginning) believe the hardship stories because they want to. You don't want to believe that your tenant may not be entirely forthcoming. Who wants to do that? That's not fun or enjoyable. And you *emotionally* want to believe that you leased to the right person. It's hard to step back and be objective. In my experience, a tenant who is late on rent fudges the truth way, way, way more than your 1/1000 example.

So you focus on the processes. Jim, Jane, Donna, Ed, etc. are all treated equally. You can stop the eviction process at any point. There's no harm done to the tenant. They read the lease, they should know it's coming. If they know they are coming into the money in 3 days, why stress about it? Now the reality is, it is stressful. Just as stressful as a property owner with a mortgage payment they have to make. The bank (I assure you) expects their money regardless of your tenant situation. It's why they want to see reserves. And that doesn't mean that the bank doesn't care about you as a customer.

I'm rambling now...

[Andrew Johnson]

AKA: There are two options:

1.) Hope for the best and plan for the worst.

2.) Hope for the best and...wait...

[Isiah Ferguson]

Hey, thank you guys once again. Their are so many different prospective on here pertaining to my current situation at hand. I completely understand business is business and should never been feelings involved. SOME of you guys' are kinda intimidating/aggressive with your response. It doesn't matter if she lying or not at lease some of the story is half true. The previous 2x she's been late was both on the 6th. Honestly, I don't think she a terrible tenant and probably wouldn't mine her staying especially compared to some of the horror story some of you guys have/had. Obviously, she is in some sort of situation, off course not paying her rent is disturbing but the lack of her communication is worst for the long term. I don't have to worry about the bank because the property is free and clear. Growing up, I lived in shelters with my parents, we been evicted a few time before, and late on rent is not the word. I've seen struggle. Being in this situation is kinda my fault as a landlord. I never really got a chance to set the tone because the tenant was inherited. Simply, moving forward I'm going to give her 3 options" pay me 1. Pay me on the first both May and June rent plus late fee. 2. Cash for keys & leave on the first. 3. Violate the lease, go through the eviction process, risk your credit, & have to go and back and fourth to court and having to pay court fees etc.

[John Nachtigall]

@Andrew Johnson

Humans are pattern recognition machines.   And it has served us well throughout time, hence that is how we have evolved.   But it can be wrong or misleading or both.  For example, if the last 10 tenets said "my rent was stolen" and it was a lie, what are the chances that the 11th person who give you that excuse is lying.

Pattern recognition would say, the chances are very high they are lying.   In actuality, the previous 10 actually have no bearing on the 11th (assuming they are not working together).   But the human brain, and its pattern recognition, ignores that and assumes the 11th is lying.   

By choosing to be a landlord, we are getting into the "people" business.   And people are messy and more importantly all different.   There is a great case to be made for strict, un-bendable, enforcement of the process applied without wavering to each and every person.   I am making a case for something that is harder, but in my opinion better.   Judge each situation on its merits.   I am not saying turn off your brain, or be taken advantage of, or dont be skeptical. I am saying that just because people have lied to you in the last does not mean the person in front of you is lying now. Now this is probably because I was taught, and subsequently was reinforced through learning, that when people lie and deceive, it says everything about them and nothing about you. I can only control me, and I choose to start by giving people the benefit of the doubt. 

You think pattern recognition is helping you, but what you are actually doing is pre-assuming that anyone who gives you and excuse about rent is lying....because previous people have lied.   When in reality, it is a statistically independent event.   

There is nothing particularly wrong with what you advocate, I just think there is a different and better way.

[John Nachtigall]

@Isiah Ferguson

Good luck Isiah.   Let us know how it works out.  

[Isiah Ferguson]

Yes sir, will do @John Nachtigall

[Rod Desinord]

Give me a E......V.....I...C......T!

[Andrew Johnson]

@John Nachtigall Actually, you misunderstand, I'm not assuming they are lying or telling the truth.  I'm saying that adhering to a process takes my opinion (and the errors it may/can/will create) out of it.  It renders pattern recognition unnecessary.  I don't have to worry if they lie or tell the truth.  

If you want to get emotionally entangled with your tenants and it works for you, that's great, I can't knock what you do.  Maybe you have a much better intuition about who is honest and who isn't.  I don't have that and I also don't want to get into the mire of believeing one tenant and not believing another.  Believing is the easy part, telling a tenant you don't believe them (and calling them a liar by proxy) isn't so easy.  By using a process I never have to really trust or distrust what a tenant is saying.  Hope for the best but plan for worst.  

[Tyler Parish]

Evict as soon as possible after late payment. Offer a months rent cash in order for her to leave. People with money problems usually take that, maybe offer two. But I would immediately have given them notice, even once they tell me these reasons, this sounds like a scam.

I believe a career in managing people and having tenants may have made me more cynical when people tell me their problems.

You can find a tenant that pays on time.

Good luck I hope it works out.

[Patrick McMahon]

Originally posted by @Bernie Neyer:

The process for eviction in your state should be conveyed by an attorney, or at least by an experience investor in your state. You can do an eviction Pro Se, but from what you've written, an attorney is highly suggested.

You can deliver a 3 Day Pay Rent or Quit (in some states it is a 5 days) notice yourself. In fact, you must deliver that notice first before beginning eviction procedure. I don't quite get when her due date was, but if they are late, I start by calling them and asking where the rent is. I explain the contract and that they are supposed to contact me before the 1st if the rent is going to be late. If it is late again the next month, I deliver a 3 Day Pay Rent or Quit notice. Usually that gets their attention, but often it is needed for them to go begging for help.

Don't give them 30 days to vacate unless their rent is current, or you will still have to evict them after 30 days of their having not paid the rent.

Cash for keys may work, but have them sign a paper indicating they have vacated the premises of their own accord and without coercion. Only give them money after you've inspected the premises, they have left it generally clean and you have taken full possession of the premises.

I am not a fan of cash for keys. Not because it doesn't work, but rather you send a tenant out to prey on another unsuspecting landlord without a paper trail of verifiable historical facts. When you evict someone it stays on their credit history for several years.  

Have to repeat Bernie's advice that you get the advice of an attorney or experienced investor in your state. Our local REIA has a website with directions how to do it properly.

Many states will rule against a landlord if any eviction paperwork is done improperly.  For example, you must calculate the 3-days (or 5-days) correctly and include court holidays, or reference specific statutes and post the notice or hand-deliver, etc etc.  

Also be careful about accepting partial rent because in some states (Florida) if you accept partial rent, it completely resets the clock on the eviction and you have to post a new 3-day notice.

In some states there are eviction companies that will do everything for less cost than a full-service lawyer.  

I have only done cash-for-keys twice, but both tenants weren't interested until after they received 3-day notices and realized we were serious about getting them out.  My wife hates the idea of cash-for-keys because the tenant is "getting away with it" but I look at it from a cost-benefit standpoint.  I'd rather get them out ASAP with them trying to clean the house, instead of dragging it out for a long time and having them mad and trashing the house.

[Brian Pendergraft]

If the tenant doesn't quit, you must evict.  Start the process, in most jurisdictions, she can stop the process herself even after a judgment is entered against if she pays her rent.

[Thomas S.]

If hobby, and even some professional landlords, would simply issue a 3 day pay or quit on the 2nd of the month all this drama and wasted time would be a thing of the past. Every time a landlord has a issue with a tenant paying late or trying to get them to pay after the fact it is ALWAYS THE LANDLORDS FAULT. 

This tenant was classic and crystal clear from the initial post. I know the tenant personally, or at least a dozen of her clones. 

This thread is a classic example of how not to deal with a tenant paying late. It would have been resolved long before now with far less time wasted on the part of the landlord if he had acted professionally.

Issue the paper on the 2nd, sit back and wait, get paid or follow through in short order with the eviction.  

Where does it say social worker in a landlords job description.

Sad when landlords fall into self destructive business patterns. Hopefully next time you will  handle it correctly.

[Isiah Ferguson]

Hey BP family. You guys would be proud, I did the right thing as being the lord of my land and filed for eviction. We have court on the 30th. This is my first eviction, so Hopefully this turnover goes quickly.