Prospective Tenant Showed Up Under the Influence

General Landlording & Rental Properties
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Prospective Tenant Showed Up Under the Influence

Joseph Lee
Rental Property Investor · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2016 · 60 posts · 30 votes

Hey everyone, just looking for a little feedback on a situation that occurred a few weeks ago in case the situation ever comes up again.

While looking to sublease the rental that we're currently renting (bought a duplex to house hack), we had a showing where one of the two prospective sub-lease tenants was...very high. It was easy to smell, he had glazed over eyes, etc. I realize state laws are changing around the country, but marijuana is still illegal in MN, and to top it off, he was the one who drove the couple to the unit.

After they left the showing, we sent them an email saying that we noticed he was under the influence and we wouldn't feel comfortable approving them as tenants and our landlord would not either (he's a police officer). We did not send them an application.

Any issue with this? How would you have handled it? I'm looking for feedback from both a legal standpoint and a business standpoint. 

To lay it out plainly, here is my justification- My analogy is that I like to have a drink, but I'm not going to show up to a showing drunk. If I did, I wouldn't expect the landlord to do anything different than we did. We did not discriminate against them based on a protected class, but discriminated because he was under the influence (breaking the law by using the drug) and came to a showing as such, not exhibiting a pattern of responsibility.

Thoughts/concerns/comments? If we were way off base, I have no problem being called out on it- just please explain why.

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
9y

I am going to chim in here because no one has mentioned it.

when your house hacking a 1 to 4 unit and you live in one unit as your primary residence.

You DO NOT FALL under any of the equal housing act laws.. you can discriminate to your hearts content.. You need give no reason or any other feedback to a perspective tenant.

This is one of the great things of house hacking you can set up some premier tenants...

If you only want older established neighbors with no kids NO problem.. etc etc etc.

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  • Anna Fuchs
    Real Estate Investor · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2016 · 9 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    Great question - we had the exact same thing happen a couple weeks ago. We gave them a paper application, so we didn't get in trouble with discrimination, but had anticipated denying any application received (they never submitted). I'd love to hear if anyone else has thoughts on this, or a better way to handle. Agreed that them coming to a showing like this just shows a lack of respect and responsibility in a prospective tenant. Thanks!

    0Reply
  • Brian Garlington
    Realtor · Oakland, CA and a Real Estate Investor with Multi-Family Units and a Self Storage Facility · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Anna Fuchs

    @Joseph Lee

    Both of your gut instincts are already telling you to avoid them so simply avoid them.

    As a property owner you are allowed to say you don't allow illegal drugs, and you don't allow smoking of any kind in or on the grounds of your properties. If they say you can't "tell us" that....then you are easily able to choose not to rent to them.

    If they say "We weren't smoking or doing drugs, it was our friend who gave us a ride over here that did the smoking". You can simply say, "We evaluate many prospective tenants at our rentals and there are a variety of factors that we look at before choosing the best qualified candidate for our rentals and after talking things over with my "business partner" it was determined to make the offer to someone else". 

    You are not under any obligation to tell them who you rented to or even if you rented out the property. 

    0Reply
  • Gail K.
    Augusta, GA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    This would have been a fun story to post under "Tenant Applicants Say The Dumbest Things".

    There was no need for you to explain to these two why you passed on this person.

    Gail

    0Reply
  • John Woodrich
    Flipper/Rehabber · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Although you determined they were under the influence it could have been a prescribed medication they were on (medical marijuana?) that could have made them seem impaired.  I don't think you will have any issues with this but your individual judgment can always lead to discrimination.

    Personally, I would have been forward during the showing. If I smelled marijuana I would have asked about the smell.  Then I would have let them know that we have a crime free/drug free addendum (which may or may not be required by the city) that we are forced to stick with.  The fact that I called them out may embarrass them enough where they wouldn't ask for an application.

    Not sure how I would have handled it if I felt a little intimidated though.  Maybe I would have emailed them back the info above to be "MN nice".

    I would recommend you take the MHA Principles of MN Rentals class.  Half day and a lot of valuable information.

    0Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    You do not have to justify your decision to anyone. You simply contact them and inform them they do not qualify and that you will not be sending them a application.

    You have no further responsibilities and owe them nothing in the form of a explanation. .

    0Reply
  • Steve B.
    Engineer · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Drunks aren't a protected class so you don't need to explain much. The trouble occurs when you reject an applicant for one reason but they fall into a protected class unrelated to your rejection. Then it may be up to the courts to determine your motives if they pursue a legal action based on their false assumptions.
    0Reply
  • Jack B.
    Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Any display of irresponsible behavior during the showing (where I'm assessing their attitude and level of sophistication) is automatic grounds for rejection. Is he going to fall asleep with a cigarette in his mouth while stoned out of his mind and burn my house down?

    0Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    I am going to chim in here because no one has mentioned it.

    when your house hacking a 1 to 4 unit and you live in one unit as your primary residence.

    You DO NOT FALL under any of the equal housing act laws.. you can discriminate to your hearts content.. You need give no reason or any other feedback to a perspective tenant.

    This is one of the great things of house hacking you can set up some premier tenants...

    If you only want older established neighbors with no kids NO problem.. etc etc etc.

    Podcast Guest on Show #222
    JLH Capital Partners51 Review
    WebsiteView Page
    2Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    Steve makes a valid point.

    Rejected applicants could also come back in the night and set your house on fire.

    When you have a applicant you do not want for your own legitimate reason take responsibility. Crack open the basement door where you are hiding and tell them no thanks you do not want them as a tenant. Shut the door, turn off the light, hunker down and prey. That is how we landlords roll.

    1Reply
  • John Woodrich
    Flipper/Rehabber · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Jay Hinrichs you are correct that when you are house hacking or when you are renting a duplex you can discriminate however he mentioned that they are subletting an apartment.

    0Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @John Woodrich  well I guess I did not catch that part... LOL.. devils in the details

    Podcast Guest on Show #222
    JLH Capital Partners51 Review
    WebsiteView Page
    0Reply
  • Joseph Lee
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2016 · 60 posts · 30 votes
    9y

    Thanks for all the replies, everyone.

    @John Woodrich, I definitely agree with everything you're saying. If it's medical marijuana prescribed by a doctor, I see where there would be an issue with our response. And on us not being upfront at the showing, we honestly didn't know how to handle it with this being our first rodeo. You hear about the stupid and crazy things that tenants say and do, but you never quite believe them until you experience it yourself. 

    Am I right in saying that you're fine to tell them that they can't smoke, but if it's medical, they need to make you aware of that for it to be illegal discrimination if you reject them for using the drug? I don't want to get too far in the weeds, but it seems like a very real hypothetical. 

    Lastly, is most of the battle with fair housing is avoiding the appearance of possible discrimination? Listening to Brandon Turner's landlording book, it seems as though he's most concerned with avoiding the appearance of discrimination, as he recommends things that are extremely, extremely conservative when it comes to not being discriminatory (at least from my newbie perspective). Don't get me wrong- I don't want to end up in a courtroom trying to state my case for discriminating illegally, but there seems to be a more common-sense approach that is worried more about avoiding real discrimination while running your business as it should be in terms of evaluating tenant risk than avoiding any and all situations where it could be perceived as discriminating.

    Again, I really appreciate the feedback from everyone. 

    0Reply
  • John Woodrich
    Flipper/Rehabber · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Joseph Lee As far as smoking goes, I would have a no smoking policy in the unit.  In regards to medical marijuana - in MN I believe the only medical marijuana is used via a nebulizer or a pill, it isn't smoked conventionally.  This could have changed.

    I wouldn't say that all you should worry about is the appearance of discrimination, I would worry about doing it whether you are trying or not.  I haven't listened to the landlord book but discrimination is a real issue, especially when you get closer to the cities.  I would highly recommend you take the MHA class.  It has a conservative feel to it however it will tip you off to things you haven't thought of before.  When renting your duplex you can choose whomever you want as previously mentioned.  You don't have to worry about discriminiation issues.

    0Reply
  • Deanna McCormick
    Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    So your subleasing ,, it is permitted according to the lease you currently have? Do you have written permission from landlord for that? What ever your present landlord has as rental criteria should be the same for to whom ever your trying to sublease to. Anyone renting needs to qualify the same as you did for the apartment. Iit would be better if you could find someone to take over your lease, then get signed off, so you wouldn't have any further responsibility toward the landlord.  You do the advertising, showing but all the leasing, and applications goes thru the landlord, once they are approved you are signed off the lease and they are signed on to balance of your lease term.

    ON Seperate note:

    A Discrimination charge from not being informed is something to avoid. Most renters in Mpls /  St Paul areas are well aware of tenant laws. and if someone would file a discrimination claim you'd have to respond properly and would incur costs just to do that thru a attorney.. So costs involved would be huge. 

    If your planning on a upcoming future in the rental business.. then

    Join MMHA  Minneapolis Multi Housing Association it's tax deductible and great resource for leases, classes and have listings of contractors and vendors in the area.

    Don't ever open a can of worms verbally telling someone why they aren't someone your comfortable renting to, IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE !! 

    0Reply
  • Joseph Lee
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2016 · 60 posts · 30 votes
    9y

    @John Woodrich- thanks for the recommendation. I'll take a look at that class. We're taking the one put on by the city of Minneapolis in a couple of weeks. We plan to abide by fair housing for our duplex even thought it's not required as you mentioned. It'll be good practice for when it's strictly a rental and we no longer live there.

    @Deanna McCormick- yes, it's allowed according to our lease and the details have been talked about at length with our landlord. What you recommend is very close to how we're doing it. Maybe I'm being dense here, but one question on your last statement- doesn't giving no reason at all allow them more room to file a discrimination claim? For example, if the tenant is a racial minority and they're not told why they were denied (even if it was for something like a past eviction), wouldn't they have more room to claim discrimination because they believe the denial was due to their race/color rather than if you just told them up front that they were being denied for that past eviction? Again, I'm new to this and simply trying to learn, but that's where my train of thought takes me.

    0Reply
  • Deanna McCormick
    Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Until you run a complete credit check, income verification, you wouldn't have anything to deny someone for until your run the application. If you pre-screen someone over the phone tell them what the rent amount is , income requirements, how many tenants permitted in unit, credit score over XXX, then you'll weed out some from the beginning. Just simply denying them the opportunity to submit a application is not a great idea..if they ask to do that. You can always find someone more suited and with better credit matches if you continue to do showings.  

    Form letter with you did not meet our criteria is best.  and check, credit, income, criminal, what ever applies. I never make a return phone call.. send it out in the mail. 

    Check the ultimate source for tenant screening on this web site for more details.

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