Investor · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 429 posts · 143 votes
I've got a tenant that moved out 3 days after their lease ended. There are some damages, amounting to around $600, plus a fee of $250 for not leaving the property till day 3. ($100/day, and $50 for a half day.) All in all, they're looking at $850. I sent them a letter notifying them of the damages found, and that the damages would be deducted from their deposit, and they'd owe the $250 charge. Now they're wanting They were wanting to go to court over my keeping their $500 deposit, and charging them for not moving out when their lease ended.
I ended up just doing a "cash for keys" deal (in writing), to return half of their deposit, and call it a day.
Was I right? I don't know how much it would cost to go to court, but I'm thinking a lot more than $850. I'd hate to end up losing the case for some negligence on my part.
Is there a certain dollar amount when it becomes worth it to sue the tenant?
The answer to your question is not as simple as a dollar amount. It is also measured by a landlords perceived responsibility to our industry. Every investor has a different tolerance level for prosecutions. For myself I believe that it is criminal for a tenant to not pay rent owed. When a tenant does this I believe it is my responsibility as a member of the landlord community to take that tenant to court and get a conviction regardless of the amount of money or the chances of collecting. I owe that to all landlords that will interact with that tenant in the future. The smallest amount I have gone to court for was about $100 plus my expenses.
Other landlords would bribe or pay extortion money to a tenant rather than take up a fight to evict and attempt to collect regardless of the amount. They do not believe they have any responsibility to prosecute criminal tenants and see the situation as too stressful, costly and time consuming. Their priority is only to their dollar today and do not see any return down the road through prosecution of tenants. Fortunately society in general sees things differently.
Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
If the tenant disagrees with your move out assessment, it is his/her responsibility to take you to court. I would respectfully tell them that they can if they want, that you have photos and documentation and would be happy to explain it to the judge. Most are just blowing off steam and will not bother.
If the tenant owes less than $2,000, I would just turn it over to a collections agency and not pursue taking them to court.
Investor · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 429 posts · 143 votes
9y
@Michele Fischer thanks! I feel good just wrapping this up for $250. This tenant was inherited when I bought the property, so I didn't have a chance to screen them. Here's to screening the next one, and hopefully having a more pleasant experience!
Investor · Smyrna, GA · Member since 2014 · 96 posts · 72 votes
9y
You got burned-if they would have taken you to court ( not very likely) -they would have had to pay the filing fees , and you would have handily won the case, without it costing you a cent. Then you compounded it by allowing yourself to be extorted in a "free cash for my keys" scheme. You've just empowered them to be even more greedy and unscrupulous to the next landlord. Thanks!
The answer to your question is not as simple as a dollar amount. It is also measured by a landlords perceived responsibility to our industry. Every investor has a different tolerance level for prosecutions. For myself I believe that it is criminal for a tenant to not pay rent owed. When a tenant does this I believe it is my responsibility as a member of the landlord community to take that tenant to court and get a conviction regardless of the amount of money or the chances of collecting. I owe that to all landlords that will interact with that tenant in the future. The smallest amount I have gone to court for was about $100 plus my expenses.
Other landlords would bribe or pay extortion money to a tenant rather than take up a fight to evict and attempt to collect regardless of the amount. They do not believe they have any responsibility to prosecute criminal tenants and see the situation as too stressful, costly and time consuming. Their priority is only to their dollar today and do not see any return down the road through prosecution of tenants. Fortunately society in general sees things differently.
Investor · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 429 posts · 143 votes
9y
@Matt Sicignano@Thomas S. I guess I got nervous since I've never been to court before. Actually, they're on the way back tonight to meet me to sign the agreement. You would just let them initiate the court proceedings?
9 times out of 10 threatening court action is just that , a threat.
If you operate your business professionally and follow all the regulations being taken to court will teach your ex tenant a nasty lesson and cost them money.
If you make a mistake and have to pay some money back it is still better than offering money you do not owe out of fear, always make them work for it.
Sacramento, CA · Member since 2014 · 513 posts · 319 votes
9y
I would take them to court or assign what they owe you to a collection agency. Landlords who get rolled by their wayward tenants and don't report them do a disservice to the industry. Sometimes it is because they are unaware of what their rights or don't want to face a judge in court. Learn the laws in your state and know them better than any of your tenants. Enforce them. Security deposits disputes (at least in California) is the most common reason tenants threaten to take a landlord to court. If you know the laws in your state, you will know what you can and cannot deduct from it (owed rent, repairs from damage beyond wear and tear, etc.). You will also know how many days you must return it by and what evidence is required in order to deduct the expense (receipts).
Also in future purchases with inherited tenants, you will want to ask the current owner for their payment histories, estoppel certificates, etc.
When it comes to working with tenants you inherit, you often have to retrain them. And if you screen them yourself, do not neglect the important step of conducting a thorough rental history - not only evictions but look for a history of late pays and screen for three day notices issued by previous landlords.
You also need to keep in mind that judges do not assign any value to a landlords time. It is all free time. If there is work to be done following a tenant move out that is to be deducted from a tenants deposit or will be charged to a tenant always hire a contractor to do the work and get work orders and receipts. These need to be provided to the tenants and used in court to justify deductions and fees.
Rental Property Investor · Phoenix AZ / Kendallville, IN · Member since 2016 · 293 posts · 149 votes
9y
For the most part, when we go to court for an eviction we usually get a judgment. But just because you get a judgement doesn't mean you will get paid. I never have. For me its not worth it to hire a lawyer. I just ding their credit and move on.
Investor · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 429 posts · 143 votes
9y
@Mike Cumbie Thank you Mike! So many differing opinions haha. I hope to have a drastically better situation after screening/selecting my own tenant next time
Hanford, CA · Member since 2013 · 5k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
Personally I don't give in to tenants but I also charge when I KNOW I can win so I can stand behind it. This way I can always stand my ground because I find that everyone feeling a the best defensive is a good offensive. Its amazing how many times people go away once I say no.
Keep in mind we are a odd industry in regards to how we deal with consumers. The proliferation of independent owners dilutes any possibility of uniformity. In most businesses that allow customers to make monthly payments, furniture and appliances for example, no dollar amount owed is too small not to warrant a letter from their lawyer threatening court action.
Sad that our industry is not operated as professionally as most. Or at least as professionally as corporate landlords. Our customer base would be of better quality if we did.
Our business would benefit if the industry actually established consistent operation practices and we got rid of all the mom and pop hobby landlords. Imagine having a fund all landlords contributed to, set up by landlords, to legally process all evictions and collections. It could be financed by very small monthly contributions.
Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
9y
I value my time at $100 per hour, so with even small claims court taking up half a day, I too would just give the tenant a few bucks to go away like you did.
"Sad that our industry is not operated as professionally as most. Or at least as professionally as corporate landlords. Our customer base would be of better quality if we did."
Yeah and if the restaurant industry got rid of all those pesky mom and pop shops and every restaurant was like McDonalds or Applebees the dining customers would be so much better conditioned to accept mediocrity.
I know you believe that as a landlord I owe my time and energy to the "charity" of the "Landlord community" to try and make it better. However some of us just do what is right for our business. You are free to spend $800 worth of time and energy to save losing $100 if that supports your business model all you want. I don't think it is wrong to not "donate that $700 for the betterment of society" on a tenant that is going to end up buying and be out of the rent game in 3 years anyway.