New Landlord, First turnover, Need Advice

New Landlord, First turnover, Need Advice

Investor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2016 · 6 posts · 0 votes

So I have a two BR townhouse and for the past year I have had two great tenants with absolutely no issues. These are the first tenants I have ever had. We will call them 1 and 2. Well, 1 decides she wants to move out at the end of their lease (May 31st). 2 wants to stay. Great! So I signed a new lease with tenant 2 and collected a new security deposit. I did a walkthrough just to find out the condition of the house and determine how much security they would receive back from the first lease. Well, 1's bathroom was filthy. They hadn't cleaned it at all. The first floor (All common area, kitchen, Living room, 1/2 bath, and dining room) was worse. Mold in bath, on window seals, and baseboards. Crumbs and food everywhere! they haven't cleaned the microwave once in the past year nor the oven. The stove and outside of the oven has a thick layer of grease on it. There was food splashed on the walls. it was pretty bad. So I decide I will charge a small cleaning fee to get the townhouse back to where it was when I first rented it to them. (16% of their total security deposit). Also, there is a pretty large gash/scrape in the laminate floors on the first floor. I decide to charge a fee to get that fixed as well. (5% of total security). So, now for the interesting part, the mother of tenant 1 calls me. She threatens me with small claims court and tells me all this is normal wear and tear and "how can I expect not to find hair on the toilet after someone has lived there a year".

How would yall handle this? I honestly don't know what to do. I really don't want to go to court over less than $300. Is this normal?

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Investor · Cathedral City, CA · Member since 2014 · 481 posts · 170 votes
10y

Good tenants don't do this. Time to get the folks out of your rental! Charge them the costs to get the rental back in the correct share. Find new good tenants!

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  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
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    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    10y

    @Travis Campbell hopefully you took pictures or had it professionally cleaned, so you have a receipt showing the expense. If you have no proof like this, it could be hard to prove in court, but I am betting they are bluffing. I always have properties professionally cleaned so I can produce a receipt if challenged. Plus I hate cleaning up after nasty tenants!

    Here is how I would handle the situation. Politely let the mother know that you never had a lease with her and you would appreciate it if she didn't contact you ever again. Tell her you are not able to discuss any matters pertaining to the tenant as a matter of privacy. Block her number if you have to. If the tenant calls you, just explain politely that the chargers were very low for the amount of time spent cleaning. Let the tenant know you consider it a closed matter. If the tenant threatens court, you can politely say that is their decision. Let them know you lawyer told you to discontinue speaking to anyone who threatens to sue you (most lawyers would give that advice). Do not talk to them again.  

    Most likely since they are too lazy to clean their house, they are probably too lazy to go down to the court house and file a small claims suit. People threaten to sue all the time, but it takes time and money to file the paperwork. Most people are hot-heads who will never follow through. IF they do drag you into court, just have a professional accounting of the work completed and time/charge involved. 

    I would take my chances, but do what you are comfortable with. You know the situation better than me!

  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    10y

    Your issues, as I see it:

    1. Percentages of security deposit. You typically only get to deduct actual costs from deposits. If the percentages match the cost, OK. 

    2. Why would you get a new deposit from Tenant #2? Did the deposit amount change? Did you let them use the deposit for rent? 

    3. How do you apportion what percentage of damage to what tenant? How does Tenant 2 feel about forking out 50% of repair/cleaning costs?

    4. Is the $300 the total cleaning/damages? In that case, wouldn't it only be $150 for Tenant 1? 

    5. Why talk to Tenant 1's mother at all, unless Tenant 1 was under 18 (man, I hope not!)?

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  • Investor · Cathedral City, CA · Member since 2014 · 481 posts · 170 votes
    10y

    Good tenants don't do this. Time to get the folks out of your rental! Charge them the costs to get the rental back in the correct share. Find new good tenants!

  • Investor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2016 · 6 posts · 0 votes
    10y

    My percentages were simply to show yall how much I was taking for each item. Of course the percentages coincide with what the repairs and cleaning actually cost me. I did not just say "Humm, I think I'll charge 16% for that.". I got a new deposit because it was a brand new lease. Not an extension. Deposit amount did change (went up). I am not planning on splitting up the amount back to each tenant. They paid me with one deposit check so I plan on supplying them with one refund check and it is up to them to determine who gets what. This is the first problem I have ever had with them in the past year and a half. Also, the problem is wI think tenant 1, who is the one moving out. Tenant 2 who is staying seems to understand the cleaning fee and has no problem paying it from what I can tell. 

    I know now I should not talk to the parent but like I said, these are our first tenants in our first rental and I am trying to learn as I go without getting sued in the process. 

    The mother and tenant 1 are supposed to come clean and make repairs tonight and I am to go inspect afterward. My biggest concern now is if it is not clean to my (aka my wifes) standards and we still have to charge a cleaning fee. At this point, for such a small amount of money, if that happens we might just eat it and pay it ourselves. We make enough on the rental to cover that no problem and I don't believe it is worth a half day off work dealing with court.

  • Vancouver, WA · Member since 2016 · 230 posts · 161 votes
    10y

    Hey @Travis Campbell, none of this sounds like normal wear and tear.  The unit should be in the same condition they moved in and if you can document that it's worse than when they moved in, they are responsible for all non wear-and-tear items.

    Personally, if they already moved out and their lease is up, I most definitely would not let them back in the house.  I would let a professional cleaner handle the cleaning and if they choose to go to court (they probably won't), but if they do, you have all the evidence you need to substantiate your deduction of the security deposit.

  • Investor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2016 · 6 posts · 0 votes
    10y

    the only issue with that is tenant 1 and 2 are friends and 2 is in a current lease. (remember only tenant 1 is moving out). so I told them if tenant 2 wants to let them back in to clean and they can get it clean up to my wifes standards, so be it. we will call it a done deal and walk away from it. thank yall for all the advice. I am learning as I go and learning a ton from you experts.

    I will report back tonight and let yall know how the inspection goes. after talking to yall and a couple of landlord friends I have, I don't believe I will settle and eat the cleaning costs. If they want to go to court then so be it. (and I am with yall and don't think that will happen.)

  • Mindy JensenPro Member
    BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    10y

    @Travis Campbell,

    I would not allow Tenant #1 back into the home. Her lease is up. She should have cleaned it before she left, because that is what normal decent tenants do. You don't wait for the landlord to tell you it's messy. What if you had a completely new tenant moving in on June 1? You would have had to clean it or have it professionally cleaned before the new tenant moved in.

    Do you have pictures from before she moved in and after she moved out? (You should always take pictures of the property before move in, along with a condition report sheet that the tenant fills out in the first 2 days of move-in to document the property in the condition in which they found it. Then after they are 100% moved out, take pictures again before you clean it or do anything else to it to document the condition in which they returned it to you.)

    I agree that you have no relationship or obligation to Tenant 1's mom. And you are absolutely within your right to expect to find no hair (so gross) on the toilet, because she should have cleaned it.

    You should have receipts documenting the costs for all expenses. All states require that you document the amount deducted from the security deposit, and provide that to the tenant within a set amount of time. The set amount of time varies from state to state, so figure out how long you have in your state to provide this. If you do not provide it in time, you could be liable to the tenant for three times the entire security deposit, regardless of whether they left it a mess.

    After you do everything within the letter of the law, all you can do it wait to see if they file. If you win - and if you can document all this, you should - they would most likely be responsible for court costs as well.

  • Investor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2016 · 6 posts · 0 votes
    10y

    @Mindy Jensen Yes ma'am. I have pictures of everything along with a check in sheet. I think the mother is just trying to flex. Once she gets over there tonight she will see why we are charging a fee. She is trying to argue that since I did not have any turnover and no loss of income and still have a tenant living in the townhome, I can not charge a cleaning fee and can not have the place cleaned when I have an active tenant. If she gives me any slack tonight I will politely ask her to never contact me again and if her daughter wishes to take me to court then I will see her there.

  • Mindy JensenPro Member
    BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    10y

    It has nothing to do with who is living in the property currently. It has everything to do with the condition in which you presented her with the property, and the condition in which she returned it to you.

    What does your lease say regarding the property condition upon surrender?

    Again, the time for her to clean it was before she left, not after. Good luck!

  • Investor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2016 · 6 posts · 0 votes
    10y

    The lease says she must return the property to me in the condition in which I gave it to her, of course. And I know that all this should have been taken care of before she left, but since she still had a friend living there and we have had absolutely no problems from them in the past year and a half, I decided to be a little lenient. Next time, I probably wont make the same decision.

    that being said, I went over for the inspection last night after they finished... the townhome was spotless. they cleaned everything from the baseboards to the microwave to the toilets. Everything. they had someone come repair the floor as well. I am happy with the way this turned out but it was more stressful for myself than it should have been but that's ok, I'll know next time.

    Thanks for all the advice! I am sure I will have many more questions for yall

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