Bypassing property manager and contacting tenants

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Bypassing property manager and contacting tenants

Carolyn Keller
Investor · Turtle Creek, PA · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 0 votes

My pm, has created messes. As he would call them "miscommunications" between everyone involved with my property. some examples: He let tenant move in 7 days before lease started, to "bring in larger furniture' and create good will so they pay rent on time. My handyman noted grass extremely long. My pm hasn't been by the home since tenant moved in. I have to mail my handyman a spare key for landlord closet if i don't my pm will charge me for key hand off a percentage of the said project. I also have find my own handyman and other project people or pm takes 15 % off the top. He has stressed my tenant, on and on... I have only been with the pm company for 4 months. they have a clause if i terminate agreement and sign with another pm in three months i have to pay them 1800, 2 months full rent. Alternatively i can terminate and only pay reminder of their pm fees or 6 months whichever is less, and still cannot hire another pm co. Its a living nightmare to say the least. 

so fast forward to today. I am doing everything for the home myself, except for contacting tenant. I am planning a retaining wall project for summer and want small things done in the fall. (gutters etc) I would like to just have handyman or myself notify tenants when someone is coming at least 48 hrs in advance, and sort of reach out to tenant see if their happy with the pm services. Not really to discuss details, but more to get their satisfaction rate. Is this contact something frowned upon? Could i create problems? anyone out there have a pm and contact tenants directly?

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Colleen F.Pro Member
Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y

@Carolyn Keller  I was very neutral, I asked what was your contact with PM  number and type of contacts (phone, email, etc). Issue type/resolved or not and overall satisfaction with the PM (1-10 scale).  Also asked the name of the contact they spoke with/ were rating since there were a couple of people in the office. I also asked if they dropped off checks was the office open. I left and open space for them to comment too.

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  • Robert Melcher
    Residential Real Estate Broker · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2016 · 506 posts · 311 votes
    10y

    I am sorry for your troubles.  We aren't all weenies.

    If my clients ever have an issue with us, we address it straight away. 

    If a client remains unhappy, we let them go, it's not worth the fighting.

    Lastly, if a client opens up the second channel to the tenants, and we aren't there while the  talk takes place, we fire them.

    Our whole business depends on competence and trust.

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  • Ashley Schroeder
    De Pere, WI · Member since 2016 · 83 posts · 39 votes
    10y

    Is there anything in the agreement that makes them uphold their end of the deal?  Viable reasons to terminate the PM if they aren't doing x, y, z?  It sounds like you're paying a PM to do nothing other than add more stress.  If they aren't doing their job then they should be let go.  Especially if you are doing everything already anyway.  We haven't worked with PM companies so I don't know the specific "rules", but I don't see why you wouldn't be able to reach out to YOUR tenant in regards to making sure they are satisfied with everything, including the PM. 

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  • John Warnagiris
    Investor · Stroudsburg, PA · Member since 2016 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    10y
    I hate to say it, but it sounds like you need to find a new p.m. And I am certain although I haven't seen the contract, there are certainly performance issues on their part that would allow you to break the contract. However, I am not a lawyer. And 15% sounds ridiculous to put up this kind of issues. Saying all of that, my personal advice is to open a dialogue with the p.m. Voicing your specific concerns. And I would go as far as putting that in writing, and letting them know their contract is jeopardy if it is not rectified. Again, it is disappointing to hear that you're getting such poor performance from a key member of your staff. But at the end of the day, it is your property, it is your money and you need to be happy with their performance. My $0.02
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  • Carolyn Keller
    OP
    Investor · Turtle Creek, PA · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 0 votes
    10y

    Agreement between me and pm company, vague at best. No real rules about taking 15 % of projects, or key hand-off fees. Really makes me angry on the key hand off fee, b/c the other pm wife offered to meet person at home to let them in to landlord closet, after i told them my gal could drive to their office. I guess worst case scenario, tenant tells pm and they have fit and hopefully fire me.

    i was given tenants phone and email, in inadvertently between emails back and forth. and mostly i am worried for my tenants that they are not having items addressed, its been super quiet from pm for the last week or so. Which silence to me is never a good thing.

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  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y

    I know it is customary for some of the PM companies to  charge a percent of any repair they manage, that was likely in the pm contract.  If you use your handyman and your contractors I don't think it really benefits you to use the PM company for these activities so I think for your way of working this company doesn't really work.  You could just send your communications to the PM and have them send them on if  you want to keep distance from the tenant. However if the tenant is already contacting you then it is already bypassing the PM and you have to reinforce the lines of communication to the pm or decide you will bypass them. If you bypass them the tenant will always call you. Do you want to go on vacation? do you want to get called during your workday?  Just saying it is up to you because if you start this communication path the tenant will take it.  One compromise with your handyman is have him notify the tenant, in addition I would use a coded lock or a lockbox for the key for the handyman.

    I did send tenants a survey on the PM company I used at one point via email. I did this to gauge the use of the pm and the tenant issues they were handling ,  turns out no one called them...  I think it is a good idea to do it but some tenants wont respond.

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  • Carolyn Keller
    OP
    Investor · Turtle Creek, PA · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 0 votes
    10y

    Colleen F. How did you word the survey and did the PM know you did that?

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  • Account Closed
    Investor · Singapore · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    I am constantly amazed at the power investors give up to their property managers. And PMs who dont understand the dynamic. You are the owner of the property. You have not ceded any rights to the PM in this regard. The PM is your employee/vendor. Now just like any business relationship, it is governed by a contract and as a competent business person you should read the contract. Also NEWSFLASH: You do not have to agree to the terms if they are one sided. This is not a cell phone contract with AT&T where you have to sign or not buy the service. Its a business contract with two parties, both who need to be satisfied their interests are protected.

    In this particular case, its YOUR property. You can have it repaired without PM involvement. It kind of defeats the purpose of having a PM of course but you can do it. I suggest you write a strong letter to your PM explaining they are not performing and you are cancelling the contract. Then you contact the tenants and tell them to send all future rents to you. Then find a new PM and sign a better deal this time!

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  • Carolyn Keller
    OP
    Investor · Turtle Creek, PA · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 0 votes
    10y

    So right, you guys think like i do. Will send an email to tenants just giving them my info, and let them know i am available, as the owner, if they are unhappy or whatever. Then will have my handyman contact them. I need to talk with the manager that initially met me and who got me to sign. I have every detail of what they were lacking in, should be a no brainer for him to understand how upset i am. If no response still,then will send a certified letter and termination email. 

    When investing in another state never really know these details on PM's and how they operate. Hopefully can help another small investor along the way. 

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  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y

    @Carolyn Keller  I was very neutral, I asked what was your contact with PM  number and type of contacts (phone, email, etc). Issue type/resolved or not and overall satisfaction with the PM (1-10 scale).  Also asked the name of the contact they spoke with/ were rating since there were a couple of people in the office. I also asked if they dropped off checks was the office open. I left and open space for them to comment too.

    3Reply
  • Oren K.
    Rental Property Investor · Toronto, Ontario · Member since 2012 · 538 posts · 298 votes
    10y

    @Account Closed 

    I very much agree with you regarding reading contracts and not signing anything that does not make sense. These are significant investments that in all likelihood will have a meaningful impact on the buyers income, wealth and future. 

    As important and valuable as the rest of the team is (e.g. Title, Lawyer, Accounting, inspectors, etc.), once the property is purchased, the PM is in the mission critical role of direct management and client engagement (Tenant and Owner). NOT vetting them, getting and checking references and doing everything you can to be sure they are the right ones for you, is very short sighted to me.

    One change I would make to your recommendation is to first find another PM (and vet them). Then have the new PM tell the tenant to send all future payments to the new PM. Finally, send the old PM their 'discharge' papers. I think you want to make sure that the old PM is not getting any more funds from the tenant and then claiming them as their termination fee. If they really believe they are in the right, let them bring it to small claims court.

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  • Carolyn Keller
    OP
    Investor · Turtle Creek, PA · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 0 votes
    10y

    Good news!!! Thank you to everyone for your comments! Talked with manager and they are letting me out of the agreement without any kind of penalty. He admitted to bad service. Also said other pm undergoing cancer treatments and the two guys have been covering, working 70 hour weeks. Again something i knew nothing of, or i would have understood better. 

    Might take a breather and self manage for a bit, or go with a smaller more local company. Wish PM's came with customer reviews, like Amazon.. lol

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