smokers?

OP

Investor · Woodbridge, VA · Member since 2015 · 476 posts · 197 votes

11y

Originally posted by @Lynn McGeein:

Even with no-indoor-smoking rules in solid B areas, not low-income, I've had carpets and linoleum burned by cigarette butts, not to mention the smell in the walls and carpet. I do not smoke, but I know plenty of smokers, and most of those I know do smoke inside their home, especially when it's raining or cold outside. And even if they do go outside, it's usually not far enough away to keep all smoke from entering the house. No, thank you. Non-smokers only for me now.

My question is has this happened once or a dozen times? Was this an otherwise great tenant or someone who gave you all kinds of headaches outside of smoking? Not trying to dig you honestly, just trying to understand because this is the opposite of what ive seen although Ive only had one tenant that has smoked so far.

Nicole A.Pro Member

Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

11y

A little steamed from that other thread about smoking? ;-)

I do think some people take it a bit far, but many LLs also are very anti-pets. In the end, it is their property, so they'll do what they want, but they also could be missing out on a great tenant.

I do not allow smoking in my units and have in my lease that there is a $15 fee as additional rent for each butt I find in the yard any time. Not sure if this is collectible or not as I haven't had to test it, because as you know, smokers aren't bad people. I know many times they do come outside to smoke because I'll be driving the area and happen to drive past (2 of my properties are on a fairly busy road) and see them sitting on the front porch having a smoke.

However, I have had some of my tenants smoke inside. One girl even knew I was coming to the property yet was smoking and when I knocked on her door, I could hear her spraying air freshener while I stood in the hall waiting for her to answer. I called her out on it. She's a great tenant otherwise, and I wouldn't call her "low-class." But she got lazy. I wouldn't doubt if she's continued to smoke inside.

But as long as things aren't damaged, I'm happy. I go over there and generally, it smells just fine and the place looks great! And I'm not a smoker, so I "can smell."

5 Reply

Lynn McGeein

Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

11y

Several different tenants. Not a dozen because I learned to just say non-smokers only. It's all in what is important to you, and I just don't want smoke in my homes. If you don't mind taking that risk, then you'll be able to provide a market that others are not servicing and probably have longer-term tenants because fewer other places to go.

I, personally, target renters with a well trained large family dog as I went through a very difficult time finding a rental when we moved to a new area with our 75-lb lab, so we focused on single family detached with nice fenced backyards. I have many conditions attached and charge a larger security deposit to lessen my risk, but I'm willing to take that risk where I am not willing to put up with smoking in my house. You choosing to rent to smokers might be your niche market.

2 Reply

OP

Investor · Woodbridge, VA · Member since 2015 · 476 posts · 197 votes

11y

@Nicole A. haha not steamed, I just notice this seems to be becoming a trend on this forum. Anytime a persone asks if they should rent to a tenant who smokes there is a thousand people going "hell no!!"

@Lynn McGeein Like I said I wasent trying to take a shot at you personally, I was just curious about the circumstances. You are absoloutly right that every LL has the right to say yes or no to anyone for anything that is not considered a protected class.

Colleen F.Pro Member

Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes

11y

For me the bad rap comes from:

- the couch in our furnished rental they set on fire.

- the butts they throw out the car window

- the still burning butts they throw by the (dry wood) barn

- the burn marks on the wood floor

the smell.

I understand the habit. I grew up in a smoking household and I know what it was like to live with smokers. 3 of 7 of us smoke as adults. Some smoke outside but I would put that higher then 1% smoking inside. I know people can be responsible but tenants always say I will go outside and only about half actually mean it. My brother smokes "outside" and his house reeks...

2 Reply

Jenny Del Toro

Real Estate Agent · Bedford, TX · Member since 2015 · 5 posts · 4 votes

11y

I've seen a few grass fires caused by cigarettes tossed off of apt balconies. The fire hazard is the biggest red light IMO, but also the smoke and butts will discolor everything, even if the tenant uses an ashtray, there's always the stray but will leave some kind of yellow/brown spots

Luka Milicevic

Real Estate Agent · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

11y

I don't allow smoking in my properties. It is absolutely NOT because of the people who do the smoking, it is simply because of the smoke itself.

Even if people do smoke outside 100% of the time (which they don't) the smoke smell still makes it into their clothes and then into the house. The smell then seeps into the carpet and drywall. It gives it a very distinct ashtray smell and isn't easy to get rid of.

Again, nothing wrong with the people. I have friends that smoke like chimneys, but I can't handle the smoke smell going into my properties.

4 Reply

@Luka Milicevic @Jenny Del Toro @Colleen F.

OP

Investor · Woodbridge, VA · Member since 2015 · 476 posts · 197 votes

11y

Thank you to everybody for giving me your views and experiences. While I may always smoke outside maybe my view is skewed because smoking is a social thing a lot of times, and when I smoke I go outside so people smoking with me will tend to follow suite.

While you have opened my eyes to why so many people are against it, I still don't think we deserve quite the negativity we get. I appreciate that we can have a lively discussion about things here on BP without any mud slinging. I hope everyone has a good weekend.

3 Reply

Joel OwensBusiness Member

Moderator

Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes

11y

The problem with cigarettes is their enforceability on others who do not smoke.

Think about it this way. You are in a public place and someone is smoking. The cigarette they are smoking has hundreds of chemicals in it that are not good for the body. The person who WANTS to smoke has a filter on their end of the cigarette. The innocent bystander who wants nothing to do with it has to inhale the full unfiltered fumes.

If smokers put a bubble around their heads where it didn't impact others who did not want to inhale such fumes then that would be fair. Cigarettes are a drug plain and simple.

One of my brothers smoked like a chimney and had a stroke. Had to quit and now he has recovered fully years later.

I don't take issue with people who want to enjoy their cigarettes just not at the cost of others who didn't choose that path. I have seen countless times renters break the rules with smoking.

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OP

Investor · Woodbridge, VA · Member since 2015 · 476 posts · 197 votes

11y

@Joel Owens thank you for your opinion and I am glad your brother has recovered. I will not comment however on the ethics of smoking in public because lets face it... we will never get everyone even close to coming to a concensus on that.

Nnabuenyi Anigbogu

Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 298 posts · 261 votes

11y

I guess in the end its just a personal preference thing. I have noticed that smokers tend to smell like smoke a majority of the time (at least all the ones i know and come in contact with). Some of them dont smoke in their house or apt but since their clothes can carry the smell, the apt still reeks of it.

My biggest pet peeve are those that smoke in public in front of an entrance where it is impossible to go around them. So every non smoker that wants to enter the building HAS to go through a cloud of smoke. Other than that i have no qualms with smokers and have good friends that smoke.

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JD MartinBusiness Member

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Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes

11y

I don't allow smoking of any type in my properties - not cigarettes, cigars, pipes, e-cigs, vapes, pot, whatever. The only smoke that should be in one of my properties is from a burned pot roast. Reason is because tobacco smoke (and pot smoke, too) is extremely difficult to get out of a unit and, given that 80%+ of the population doesn't smoke, makes the unit very difficult to re-rent to a non-smoker without total rehab. Non-smokers can smell a unit that has been smoked in, even just once in a while, like a hound can smell an escaped convict.

I do allow smoking outside, as it would be difficult to enforce otherwise. But as to your question as to when/how smokers got such a bad rap? Next time you are at a traffic light, try to count the number of cigarette butts at the curbside, and you'll get a little more illumination :) . BTW, I am a former smoker, been quit 20 years, and I generally like hanging out with smokers more than pious holier-than-thou non-smokers, but that doesn't mean I'm blind to the fact that a lot of smokers are just plain pigs.

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OP

Investor · Woodbridge, VA · Member since 2015 · 476 posts · 197 votes

11y

@Nnabuenyi Anigbogu That is true, while I have never been told that my house smells like smoke (smokers and non-smokers alike) I have had times where my wife (who doesn't smoke) tell me that I need to go change or I will notice it the morning after when I go to put my clothes in the laundry. This tends to only happen really when I have been in a bar that allows smoking or a place where there has been many smokers congregated together.

As far as smoking in front of entrances, there is always inconsiderate people in every crowd, smokers just tend to be more obvious due to the smell.

Thanks for taking the time to give me your opinion. I feel like I am getting a lot of good feedback on here.

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Dawn AnastasiPro Member

Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes

11y

LOTS of reasons:

- Stains the walls and ceilings when people smoke inside

- Gets inside the carpeting and makes the house smell bad -- really gets into curtains and furniture too

- Can make burn holes in carpets

- People put them on the counter tops and they wind up causing stains/burn marks

- People flush them down the toilet and it causes clogs

- Butts litter the ground around the house because smokers seem to think littering butts is okay (when did just throwing a used butt out your car window or anywhere outside on the ground become "okay"???)

- Even when smoking "outside" the smoke wafts its way inside the house and smells bad

- Smoke attaches to the person's clothes, hair and breath and that comes inside the house

- People will leave butts everywhere inside the house -- on window sills, in ashtrays that don't get emptied out, on the floor, etc.

Steve Vaughan

Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes

11y

@Kevin Harrison It's not that I dislike people that smoke. Most if my tradesmen do and we are friends. I'm glad when the only vice my drywaller or painter has is tobacco!

It's a tenant risk profile I completely avoid based on the following:

Reason 1- I have had to remediate 6 places where they promised to smoke outside. All 6 processes awful, exhausting and expensive.

Reason 2 - smokers attract shade while they are smoking outside, especially in apt bldgs. The backpack walker wandering by... wants a smoke or needs a light... and oh - they also have products for sale. It breeds the underbelly stuff we all want to avoid.

Reason 3- they associate with their own kind. What kind of gf/bf and other buddies coming over can you expect? Two can quickly turn into 4, which becomes 12 on weekends. Liquor and Jane flows- rules and sense go out the window.

Reason 4 - not every smoker I've had has been a turd, but EVERY turd has been a smoker. My only 3 full evictions, my only 2 cash for keys or my only 4 please just leave and I'll forgive the back-rent types have been smokers. I would rather have a vacant property than one occupied by the typical smoker. Those not willing to take care of themselves will hardly be the best to take care of your property.

OP

Investor · Woodbridge, VA · Member since 2015 · 476 posts · 197 votes

11y

@Dawn Anastasi Thanks for the feedback, although I do notice that many of your problems have to do with people that are smoking inside. Which means they were already breaking the rules to begin with ;-).

@Steve Vaughan this part of your post literally made me laugh "not every smoker I've had has been a turd, but EVERY turd has been a smoker". Thanks for the insight. I will admit that much more than 10 years ago, smoking is not nearly as common and it seems that the majority of people who still smoke fall into 2 catagories. 1) those who have been doing it forever and are set in their ways and 2) people who really cant afford it anyway that tend to have many other bad habits. There are still quite a few of us in the middle though (see how I excluded myself there? lol) and I think that we should all be judged on our own merits not just all lumped into the "smokers are bad" sterotype.

Steve Vaughan

Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes

11y

Very true on your second point @Kevin Harrison -some also 'have many other bad habits'. My worst ones had relapsed back into pills, meth, etc. Everyone of them also had bad teeth. Check that grill! Ever see a treatment center during a smoke break? 3/4 of them smoke, I swear. Good points.

Remember, we aren't hating the smoker here, just the smoke and what it does and brings to our properties!

OP

Investor · Woodbridge, VA · Member since 2015 · 476 posts · 197 votes

11y

@Steve Vaughan I disagree with you that it brings in drugs and other bad things. People either do or do not do those things and will find them If they want to weather or not they smoke.

I have started out with one opinion and now I think I am coming around. It never really dawned on me that I might be in the minority and not the majority. Of course this is also the first time I have talked about this in a forum.

Karen Musselman

Mohrsville, PA · Member since 2015 · 57 posts · 10 votes

11y

This is a great discussion here. Personally, I think PVs (personal vaporizers aka e-cigs) are getting more of a bad rap than they should be getting.

I'm a former smoker and now a "habitual" vaper. I vape in my house, in my car, etc. with absolutely no "residual" affects at all. I've been in many, many homes of non-smoking friends and neighbors and none of them have a problem with me "vaping" inside of their homes.

I've been vaping in our home for almost two years now and nobody even notices it. My aunt told their daughter, who is a heavy smoker, you can vape inside the house, but you can't smoke in here. My aunt and uncle are both non-smokers and they never smell anything while my cousin and I are vaping indoors.

If I was a landlord, I'd absolutely allow vaping inside the units. PVs do not produce any smoke; it's only a fog. And it dissipates almost immediately after being exhaled. Nothing gets on the walls or paint or anything. There's nothing burning, nothing is getting lit up, no carcinogens, etc.

Whenever we get to the point of doing buy & hold deals for rental properties, I'd advertise 'No Smoking - Vaping Okay.' If anything, it may get some people off of cigarettes and over to PVs!

Just my 2c as a former 35-year heavy smoker. :-)

Nicole A.Pro Member

Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

11y

Someone mentioned people throwing their butts out of the car while driving. I, too, hate that! It's okay to smoke in your car, but heaven forbid you keep the butts in your car and dispose of it properly. I especially dislike when I'm driving behind you and see that red glow fly all over my car....or find butts stuck in my radiator or intercooler.

Speaking of smells carried into the house by your clothes...I definitely notice that if I'm around smokers on my own clothes. Or, when I go to my favorite Indian, Mexican, and Korean restaurants. The smells is so delicious in the restaurant but not the absorbed smell in my clothes! lol

Carpets also absorb smell. I used to like carpet but got wise. I don't like it especially in rentals, but not my own house either. I wash my dog and all her bedding weekly, but that carpet still smells like...dog. She doesn't have accidents in the house either. She's just a smelly thing... Gonna be ripping out that last bit of carpet in my living room very soon!

Laura Turner

Lancaster, PA · Member since 2014 · 29 posts · 4 votes

11y

My experience with smokers and tenants in general is that they will get away with whatever they can. If you let somebody slide once, it will happen again.

I don't insist that tenants are non-smokers, because there's no way to control what they do outside, and they'll tell you they don't smoke if they think it will result in not getting the rental. But my move-in sheet has a checklist so tenants can report anything wrong with the property, and there's a space to check 'smell of smoke', 'smell of pets', and 'any other smell'.

However, I will admit to having a personal prejudice against smokers. I just can't conceive of how somebody could knowingly willingly choose to blow their hard-earned money killing themselves, or could let a drug control them. To me it shows a complete lack of self respect, and somebody who doesn't respect himself won't respect anybody else either. While discrimination against a particular race, gender, or other quality that is neither better or worse than any other is wrong, discrimination based on a choice of actions in not wrong.

OP

Investor · Woodbridge, VA · Member since 2015 · 476 posts · 197 votes

11y

@Karen Musselman I definitely have to agree with you. I have been on and off with the vaporizers. I told my wife I would quit before I turn 30 (about to turn 28). They work great but this last time I lost mine for about 3 days in a friends car and after 24 hours I broke down and went to the store for a pack of smokes. I will say however I do notice that my lungs like it much better when I vape, and I also will vape inside and have not noticed any residual effects.

@Nicole A. I agree that fabrics and carpet absorb smells like nobody's business. my current home has almost no carpet left except for a little bit on the basement stairs until I figure out what I want to put there. My rental has a bunch of carpet that is going to be replaced with some high quality vinyl planking as soon as its due to be replaced.

As far as the butts on the side of the road, yes there are inconsiderate people everywhere, but technically they are Bio-degradable. At least they are suppose to be nowadays.

Karen Musselman

Mohrsville, PA · Member since 2015 · 57 posts · 10 votes

11y

Originally posted by @Kevin Harrison:

@Karen Musselman I definitely have to agree with you. I have been on and off with the vaporizers. I told my wife I would quit before I turn 30 (about to turn 28). They work great but this last time I lost mine for about 3 days in a friends car and after 24 hours I broke down and went to the store for a pack of smokes.

OMG! You should have just picked up a disposable PV instead! LOL I finally opted for the eGo style with two batteries and hubs keeps about 5-7 refillable cartridges on hand with 1-2 bottles of ejuice.

OP

Investor · Woodbridge, VA · Member since 2015 · 476 posts · 197 votes

11y

@Karen Musselman I know I know... But at least I have given myself a timeline and someone to keep me accountable. I working on it, but to be honest a lot of times I enjoy a good smoke.