Bad Neighbors Who Want My House

General Landlording & Rental Properties
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Bad Neighbors Who Want My House

Cody Koetter
Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2014 · 3 posts · 4 votes

Hi BP!

I acquired a rental property a few years back, that I rented to family while they were saving to buy a new house, so they have been my only tenants up to this point, for this property. They told me the neighbors next door had mentioned multiple time they wanted to buy the house. So once my family members moved out we put it up for sale at Market value to test the market while we were making some small rent repairs in case we weren't able to sell if for the price we wanted.

During that time our Realtor showed the house to a good number of interested buyers, but every time she brought a buyer to the property, the neighbors next door would come over and wait for them to exit the house to start telling the buyers the house had all these issues and that we were trying to scam someone into buying it. Come to find out, one of the offers we did not accept came in the name of their elderly mother at about 30% below asking. So they were essentially trying to buy the house using their elderly mother as the purchaser, just to have the land it sits on, which ultimately pissed them off. Needless to say we did not sell the house.

Brief Background on the neighbors: These 3 brothers dad passed away about 10 years ago, who passed down enough inheritance where they bought that house and won't have to ever work, if they live within their means. So essentially a few hundred thousand dollars 10 years ago.

Yesterday, I officially put it on the market as a rental and all 3 brothers have called me acting like interested renters (from the same number.. their elderly moms cell phone), and snooping around the property. I missed one of the calls late last night and called back today, where the elderly lady answered and said she didn't know anything about a rental but the house next door was for rent, which tipped me off they were the ones who called from her cell phone. I had 3 potential renters call me today asking about the property, and ALL 3 mentioned the neighbors came over when they were out front looking at the property, saying all of the exact same things they were saying to our potential buyers, which made the folks who called me question everything I said. At this point these people are costing me buyers, renters, and money.

Since I hadn't had to deal with putting a non-family member tenant in this property up to this point I foresee these people causing me quite a bit of trouble moving forward... 

Has anyone had to deal with this type of situation, and what could I do to keep them away from my potential future tenants, so I can get this place rented?

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Jassem A.
Investor · PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 602 votes
11y

I would confront them and see why they want the property so bad at this discounted price and then counter at the full asking price.  If they don't want to pay the full asking price then I would ask them to please stop harassing the potential tenants or that you are going to contact law enforcement and also file a civil suit.

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  • Jassem A.
    Investor · PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 602 votes
    11y

    I would confront them and see why they want the property so bad at this discounted price and then counter at the full asking price.  If they don't want to pay the full asking price then I would ask them to please stop harassing the potential tenants or that you are going to contact law enforcement and also file a civil suit.

    3Reply
  • George P.
    Property Manager · Livonia, MI · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    wow,this is terrible. 

    i'd also talk to them. i'd say something like "i know you are bothering potential tenants and this needs to stop or i am filling a no trespassing orders (whatever the official term is). I know what you are doing and i wasn't born yesterday. so, this needs to stop immediately".

    either be there when tenants/clients go and see it (twice a week) or the other option is to kill them with kindness, but stick to your guns.

    lastly, you can say "if you want it this bad, pay me full price and it's yours today".

    update us on how it goes..

    2Reply
  • Anthony GaydenPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    @Cody Koetter

    The only thing that will happen if you confront them is you will make yourself look weak and possibly make the situation worse. Instead ignore them. Being ignored is the worst possible thing you can do to a troll, both on the internet, and the real world.

    Do not bother talking to them. Even if they speak with potential tenants, show the tenants the property and prove to them that the place doesn't have issues. Rent the place out and don't worry about them.

    If you decide to sell, there should be no issue as soon as they see the house. They will then know that any issues that the neighbors may have claimed were lies.

    Do not change your game plan on account of some trolls. Continue doing what you are doing and go about your business. Life is too short to be stressing over things like this.

    Podcast Guest on Show #21
    2Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · West Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2014 · 230 posts · 239 votes
    11y
    Cody Koetter My rehabber dealt with this exact issue. The neighbor wanted the house at a discount and was able to get the house to fall out of escrow twice. He hired an attorney and the attorney was able to get the neighbor to cease and desist. The house entered escrow the third time and sold. Good luck
    3Reply
  • Linda WeygantPro Member
    Investor and CPA · Arvada, CO · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    I agree with @Account Closed.  Contact an attorney and get a cease and desist letter prepared and delivered to them.

    Podcast Guest on Show #244
    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    Better call Saul.  Lawyer up!  Document what has happened.  These people have deep enough pockets that they should run scared.

    3Reply
  • Randy E.
    Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @Cody Koetter I would not speak to the neighbors directly about the situation.  I might give them a friendly hello if I saw them while I was at the house, but I wouldn't question them about their actions.  Just be nice and chit chat with them for a moment. 

    How are these guys getting directly private personal access to your tenant applicants?  When I show my houses, I arrive at the house before the applicant, I show them around, and I walk them out to their car.  The applicant leaves before me and no nefarious neighbor would ever have a chance to bad mouth my rental without me being around.  If it's not your standard practice to do the same with your applicants, maybe you should change your SOP for this property.  

    Good luck dealing with this mess,

    0Reply
  • Ellie Hanson
    Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2015 · 119 posts · 78 votes
    11y
    Don't ignore it. There have been numerous studies done that all confirm ignoring troll behavior does NOT make it go away. Call a lawyer and have them send a cease & desist letter. Let them know that they are trespassing on your property should they ever step foot on it again and then call the police if they do. Let the police know that you have a neighbor dispute and will prosecute to the full extent of the law should any damage occur on your property. If they want to play with the bull they should get the horns.
    2Reply
  • Cody Koetter
    OP
    Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2014 · 3 posts · 4 votes
    11y

    All,

    Thank you for posting on this topic as I have never had to deal with this before! I see that there are a couple main view points on this topic, of which I will being implementing a hybrid approach phased in over 2 weeks, in 1 week increments.

    I have not marketed the property in any other fashion than a yard sign at this point, as its the first of the month and I wanted to conjure up word of mouth within the neighborhood, and potentially forgo additional marketing cost should if it should rent quickly. So the main issue I've had is people seeing the sign and stopping in front of the house, which is when the neighbors come out. They have never approached me when I've been at the property. So Week 1 I will avoid the Troll and see if I get viable applicants whether they are a nuisance or not.

    After this first week when the property is available online and in the newspaper, initial contact will happen before the prospective tenants ever see the property. Which gives me the ability to be there at the same time. If I find the neighbors start getting ballsy and approaching when I'm there with the prospective tenants I will follow up after the showing with a conversation letting them know they have the option to purchase the property at market value. If they decline, then the warning will come verbally about trespassing and harassing my tenants. If I witness, or hear of, any occurrence after that, a cease and desist letter will follow shortly thereafter. If it keeps happening then I will engage the authorities. Hopefully it doesn't get that far, but if it does, it does.

    Thank you all again for taking the time to help me out here! I would have not been able to map this plan out so early in the process and have most certainly avoided dealing with it on the fly, which could go a number of unknown directions. 

    This is why BP and all of its members are the best!!

    Cody

    0Reply
  • Matthew Paul
    Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    11y

    Walk over and talk to them say " Hey guys I have a problem , I have a group that wants to rent the house and use it as a homeless shelter / halfway house for  men getting out of prison , they offered to pay me double my rent , I am torn with this choice or renting it out as a regular house , I checked with the city and its ok with them . I really dont want to but  I may have no choice "     Or something like that .

    1Reply
  • Anthony GaydenPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Ellie Hanson:
    Don't ignore it. There have been numerous studies done that all confirm ignoring troll behavior does NOT make it go away.

    Call a lawyer and have them send a cease & desist letter. Let them know that they are trespassing on your property should they ever step foot on it again and then call the police if they do. Let the police know that you have a neighbor dispute and will prosecute to the full extent of the law should any damage occur on your property.

    If they want to play with the bull they should get the horns.

     I dont know about those studies, but speaking from personal experience I have seen the opposite. You go over there and confront them, next thing you know your property is mysteriously vandalized. Some people get so offended that they will want to physically harm you.

    These kind of people thrive on confrontation. Ignoring them strips them of their power. You succeeding in spite of their efforts is the ultimate revenge. 

    Podcast Guest on Show #21
    0Reply
  • Craig Smith
    Investor · Wilkes Barre, PA · Member since 2015 · 54 posts · 14 votes
    11y

    List it on Craigslist. This way you can be at the property prior to the neighbor seeing your potential tenants

    0Reply
  • Marc M.
    Contractor · Rockville, MD · Member since 2014 · 423 posts · 135 votes
    10y

    @Cody Koetter What ever happened with this?

    0Reply
  • Bill Gulley
    Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    10y

    Defamation of property is a tortuous matter and illegal, doing that and making an offer to purchase can become an extortion matter. 

    Run this by your attorney:

    Send a "plant" buyer, with another person, H&W would be good. Talk outside with the neighbor. Record the conversation, check your state laws but generally 3 or more people do not constitute a private communication.  Your plant buyer needs to mention early on something like,  "thank you, I'll be letting my Realtor know all this, this can be public knowledge.........you're a great help, what else could be wrong.....what do you think its worth" ......     lead the conversation, with positive replies, how do you know this, what did the owner do, what do you really think its worth, how much would it cost to fix that????

    Be sure to thank them leaving.....

    That was advice I received from an attorney, public conversation with notice of what is discussed can be shared as public knowledge. 

    NAILED! Then give that to your attorney and he'll take it from there.  

    @Jerry W. might comment, he nails bad guys..... :)

    0Reply
  • John Thedford
    Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    10y

    @Bill Gulleynot sure recording the conversation would be legal depending upon state law. I would put an end to their interference by hiring an attorney. Seller might be able to make a case for damages...then again depending on proof, documentation, state laws, etc. When it comes to real estate with big ticket items involved, it is no wonder the number of people that will pull anything to make a buck! Sad commentary on our society today...?

    0Reply
  • Bill Gulley
    Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @John Thedford:

    @Bill Gulleynot sure recording the conversation would be legal depending upon state law. I would put an end to their interference by hiring an attorney. Seller might be able to make a case for damages...then again depending on proof, documentation, state laws, etc. When it comes to real estate with big ticket items involved, it is no wonder the number of people that will pull anything to make a buck! Sad commentary on our society today...?

     Why I mentioned attorney.....twice!

    The fact that you have a couple, they can also be deposed. 

    A recording may be used as notes, if the recording was legally obtained, notes can be used to give testimony. I have no idea what a judge will allow. Why I mentioned Jerry W. as well.

    A safer thing to do is to simply take pictures of the place, just put the guy in the frame to show he was there. Camera should be date and time stamped. Video is better without sound. 

    It's shisters like that that need some corrective attitude adjustments.  

    1Reply
  • Cody Koetter
    OP
    Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2014 · 3 posts · 4 votes
    10y

    @Marc M. I did implemented the hybrid approach mentioned in my last comment. I avoided the Troll while the Marketing strategy was only a yard sign. While the interest was high during this time, none of the contacts signed a rental agreement by the end of Week 1. So I marketed the property on a number of sites like the Newspaper, Zillow, Trulia, Apartment List, Hotpads, PadMapper, Lovely, Craigslist, etc., where I received an almost overwhelming number of inquires and showings. Since I was generating leads through those third party sites, the prospective tenants only saw the house when I was there.

    Since the interest was so high and the neighbors saw us showing the property about 5 times a day for a little over a week period, one of them came over after a showing and inquired about purchasing the property again. I first started out by telling him that I was disappointed in his families actions as I thought highly of them (which I didn't, but still said it). Then told him how disrespected I felt for his family to trespass onto the property to slander his neighbor (myself) and the property in an attempt to gain leverage, as it has a direct effect on my families well being. I also told him that due to my family being negatively affected by their actions, if it continued I would have to take legal action for preservation purposes, which I'd prefer neither of us have to deal with. Then, I essentially told him that the property is always for sale for X price and as he had noticed the demand is high, so continuing down the current path was not productive for his future ability to purchase the property, nor for our relationship as neighbors. At that time I already had 2 prospects asking to if we would sell the home using Seller Financing, on top of multiple qualified applications to lease property. So I told him the same thing I told all of the other people who viewed the property. The first person to submit an official offer or move forward with executing the Rental Agreement and paying the deposit, gets the property.

    Unfortunately for him, and the 1 of the 2 folks looking to buy via Seller Financing, they submitted their offers after one of the qualified applicants executed a Rental Agreement and paid their deposits. While it would have been more preferable to move forward with the Seller Financing Agreement, as that would have been most profitable, I didn't have time for the property to sit empty. 

    The next time I spoke with him was when he submitted the offer and while I had to decline it due to the executed Rental Agreement, I let him know that the lease was for 12 months and if he was still interested in purchasing the property to contact me in about 10 months, so everything could be finalized shortly after the current tenants move out.

    Funny enough, my sister called me about 1.5 weeks later while she was doing a few last things before the tenants moved in and told me he was mowing the grass of our property when she showed up. She asked him why he was doing that, as we had a lawn service coming by the next day, and he mentioned the city had come by and asked him if he could tell us the grass needed to be cut to avoid a citation. So he just mowed it so we wouldn't get fined.

    So, all in all, my takeaway from this situations were the following: 

    Show these types of properties yourself, not through an agent. Avoid the troll until you can generate qualified leads. Overlap viewings to show the properties value, if possible. Only engage the troll in a position of power letting them know you thought more highly of them, whether you think that or not (to play on their emotions). Let them know the repercussions of continuing down the current path, in a non-threatening manner, along with the fact that the last thing you want to do is take legal action. Then let them decide how the relationship progresses.

    In my situation it progressed in a favorable manner, however, if the troll still wants to continue down the current path Take Action as you stated you would.

    i hope this helps anyone else in a similar type of situation. All trolls are different in nature so if you can find a soft spot play on it. Otherwise, take your stated action and move forward with your business.

    Thanks again for everyone's input and interest in this post!

    Cody

    4Reply
  • Brian Fouts
    Investor · Fall City, WA · Member since 2013 · 200 posts · 63 votes
    10y

    Great update, glad to hear it went so well with them in the end.  

    0Reply
  • John A.
    Investor · Sierra Vista, AZ · Member since 2013 · 168 posts · 126 votes
    10y

    @Cody Koetter

    You handled this very well.  Congratulations.  I hope I never wind up in this situation.  But if I do, I'll refer back to this thread.

    0Reply
  • Jerry W.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y

    @Bill Gulley, thanks for the mention.  I have done slander of title, but this is more of an intentional interference of contract.  They are not claiming ownership, it appears they are lying about the condition of the property.  They are intentionally interfering with a business deal.  I am unaware of any state having a law of prohibiting recording a conversation where you are present and a participant.  It is possible, but I have never heard of it.  There is a big difference in recording phone calls even if you are a party.  It is absolutely legal in my state, but in some states it is not.  The gal who recorded her conversation with Monica Lewinsky in the Bill Clinton scandal was prosecuted for recording that phone call.  The test usually given on whether a recording is an invasion of privacy is the expectation of privacy.  Recording in a shower or bathroom is very different than recording someone who comes onto your property.  I can see no invasion of privacy where they went onto the neighbors property.  That would make security cameras illegal.  The only thing is that you must prove damages if you sue and win.  You are only looking at a months rent or two unless you have a witness who said they would have bought the property had the neighbors not said what they did.  Truth would be an absolute defense to a lawsuit.  A statement made with a reckless disregard for the truth or falsity would not be a defense.  just my two cents.

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