Central AC Advice

Central AC Advice

Investor 路 Fort Lauderdale, FL 路 Member since 2012 路 1k+ posts 路 465 votes

I have a few general questions about central AC and some specific ones about pets.

I have a tenant who's complaining that her electric bill is too high.  Her monthly electric bill is around $150.  She said she spoke to friends and they live in houses and the bill is not that high.

The property is an older multi-family built in the 1950s, concrete block structure with a flat roof.  So I know as far as insulation it's far from perfect.  Furthermore I am in South Florida and it's HOT out.  Today is probably like 90 degrees with 200% humidity.

So here are some additional information.

My own house, about twice it's size, I am paying only $100 electric.  Although my house is well insulated, with a pitched roof and an insulated attic, and I set my thermostat such that it's 80 degrees during the day when no one is home, and 76 degrees in the evenings.

Her building has three units, her unit is an end unit, facing south.  The other units are similar sizes.  Her next door neighbor's bill is about $100 a month in the summer.  Although her next door neighbor is a single person, and does the same thing I do, set to 78 during the day, and 76 when home in the evenings.

The unit who is complaining about high electric bill, she sets her thermostat to 72 all day long.  Her and a boy friend, with two dogs, both 50 pounds.  One is an Australia Cattledog and the other a Labrador.  It is a two bedroom unit about 750 SF.

I went to the unit and the AC gets down to 74 and it can't seem to go lower any further, and hence the unit is running all day.  When they get home at night, its gets warmer.

The AC unit is a 2 ton unit, which according to the sizing chart, is appropriate for that size apartment.  Unit was installed in 2004, so about 11 years old.  Last serviced in May 2015, refrigerant fully charged then.

I looked up the inspection report I did eight months ago when I bought the unit, and inspector noted the temperature difference is 16 degrees and unit is operating as expected.

I called up the AC company who service all my units and they said about 18-22 degree difference is what should be expected on a brand new system, and the efficiency drops as the system gets older and the coils get dirty, or there is a leak in the refrigerant line.  When they serviced it in May, there was no leak.

Spoke to the tenant about raising the temperature being set to 72 all day, she said they feel 72 is not that low, and they have lived in places where they set it to 68 or lower and no issue.  As for leaving it at 72 all day, it is because she doesn't want her big dogs to get too hot.

I change the filters every month.  I can tell their filter is at least SEVERAL TIMES dirtier than the other tenants with no pet.  Often time the filter is matted down with pet hair.  All units in this building have the same brand/model units installed at the same time.  So we are comparing apples with apples.  I wonder how much the efficiency is affected by a dirtier filter due to the two big dogs?

The other issue is with a two bedroom apartment of 750SF, with two adults and two 50# dogs, is this oversized for this size unit?  Is it almost like 4 adults living in a two bedroom in terms of requirements for heating and cooling?  I normally do not allow pets but this tenant was inherited from the last owner so I made an exception on allowing the dogs.

My inclination is to advise them to try and optimize their thermostat during the days, and perhaps try changing out the filter every 15 days, and see if that makes a difference.

What I couldn't believe is how much dirtier the filters are with the two dogs.  I actually changed the filter one day went back after 7 days and checked it and it has MUCH MORE dirt and hair on it then a three month old filter in the other no pet apartment.

Also, are the modern day units engineered differently?  I seem to remember old units I have in the 80s and 90s were able to cool to 65 degrees when the outside is 95 degrees, but newer units I kept hearing all they can do is cool 18-22 degrees.

Sorry to be so long winded.

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Realtor 路 Palm Beach Gardens, FL 路 Member since 2014 路 99 posts 路 36 votes
11y
Thermostat set to 72掳 in the summer in south FL? She's lucky the bill is only $150.
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  • Realtor 路 Palm Beach Gardens, FL 路 Member since 2014 路 99 posts 路 36 votes
    11y
    Thermostat set to 72掳 in the summer in south FL? She's lucky the bill is only $150.
  • Investor 路 Woodbridge, VA 路 Member since 2015 路 476 posts 路 197 votes
    11y

    I work on industrial HVAC for a living, so not quite the same.

    I will tell you though that a dirty filter will make your air handler work significantly harder, while at the same time slowing down the cold air getting into the apartment, both of which kill efficiency. And yes 72 is way to cold to run for just 2 dogs. It is a waste of energy. Those dogs will be just fine at 74-78, and if she wants to keep it that cold a higher energy bill is just going to come with it naturally. I would show her where to  buy and how to install new filters and have her check them regularly. While that may not be a perfect soloution, the high energy bill is at least half her fault for trying to keep the unit so cold all day for no reason.   

  • Investor 路 Edwardsville, IL 路 Member since 2015 路 432 posts 路 481 votes
    11y

    I have a second house in Estero, Florida that I just had to replace the entire system.  Because the units run so much they are only good for 10 years before causing problems in Florida.  If your units are at the end of their useful life, they won't operate as efficiently.  You might have them brush their dogs (outside) a couple of times a week to see if that helps the filter situation. 

    Also check with your energy provider's website to see if they have any rebate programs to help landlords with replacing older HVAC units.  A buddy of mine got 8 new HVAC systems last year for his eight plex at NO CHARGE!  Oh, and he is a HVAC guy - who do you think got paid to install them.  I love this country!

  • Visalia, CA 路 Member since 2015 路 97 posts 路 44 votes
    11y

    I went so far as to put filter material on the return air grilles to catch most of our dog's hair (German Shepherd).  It was a little labor intensive, but I wanted to trap all the hair before it reached the system filter.  It worked too... the return grilles were caked with dog hair.  I rinsed them off with the hose, let them dry, then installed them again

    Sadly, this is the cost we pay for having dogs in the house.

  • Investor 路 Vancouver, WA 路 Member since 2013 路 3k+ posts 路 4k+ votes
    11y

    That's another good reason not to allow pets, especially big dogs with lots of hair. If you are not already charging them extra pet rent, then you should. They are causing extra wear and tear on your HVAC system and probably other parts of the apartment. I bet the ducts are full of hair too, if they have lived there a long time. So, I would recommend cleaning the ducts, cleaning the furnace, and changing the filter as often as necessary. All at the tenant's expense.

    Are these tenant's on a M2M rental agreement? If so, you can easily change the terms of the rental agreement to include instructions for what they need to do for proper care and cleaning of the HVAC unit, considering the presence of the dogs. Also add a clause about proper care of the pet, to include dog grooming, to keep down the amount of dog hair inside the apartment.

    If the HVAC unit is operating as it should, which seems to be the case, then it is the lifestyle choice of the tenant that is adding cost to the electric bill. The tenant always has the option to move elsewhere. If they do, then make the unit pet free in the future.

    Also, since you purchased the building eight months ago, and this is the first summer of ownership, it may behoove you to collect information on each of the three units as to their average utility costs. If you can get the info from the utility company, great, but they might not reveal such to you if the accounts are in the names of the tenants. If that is the case, see if you can get the information from the tenants. Note the variables, such as the month, average outside temperature, number of occupants, number of pets, insulation and shade.

    Many utility companies offer free energy audits, if yours does, see if there are some cost effective improvements you can make that will benefit all of the units.

    South facing units will get the brunt of the sun's heat. If possible, you may want to add some shade foliage to that side of the building. Shades and/or awnings for the windows can help as well. 

  • Miami, FL 路 Member since 2014 路 16 posts 路 1 vote
    11y

    @Sam Leon I am actually having a similar issue on one of my units in the building facing south. 2/1 but no dogs. They have been complaining about the electric bill exceeding $200 a month. They were leaving the unit on 24/7 set somewhere between 72-74 degrees. Than they started shutting the unit off completely when they were not home thinking that would lower the bill which is making the unit work much harder when it turns on. I was able to convince them to raise the temperature up to 79 when no one was home at keep it around 76 when they are home. Will see what happens with their next bill. The unit is an older 2 ton unit from the year 2000.

  • Property Manager 路 Livonia, MI 路 Member since 2011 路 4k+ posts 路 1k+ votes
    11y

    "humidity is 200%"..

    lol

    i lived in florida for 8 yrs, i know how that feels.. 

  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire 路 Northeast, TN 路 Member since 2015 路 10k+ posts 路 16k+ votes
    11y

    I would try creating some shade for the unit. Direct sun on the unit is going to affect the temperature drop. Shade can drop surface temperatures by 10 degrees or more, which will have an impact on how efficient your unit can be. 

    Having 2 medium sized dogs is not like having 2 humans, not even close. I have owned dogs all of my life - big dogs, 100 pounds or so - and I have never had a problem cooling a space. Filters do get clogged faster, so that is something they need to consider. 

    Skyline Properties
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  • Real Estate Investor 路 Lake Worth, FL 路 Member since 2009 路 263 posts 路 92 votes
    11y

    What HVAC installers have informed me is that keep A\C filter clean, use spray cleaner for coils when dirty, when most older A\C s were installed in Florida we didn't have the code requiring the retaping of vents with a quality tape to prevent leakage into the attic.

    Additionally the insulation, windows and doors are going to be contributing factors.
    You will be surprised how many people in South Florida do Not realize the amount of money being wasted by the Duct tape drying out and air venting into Non A\C spaces.

  • Investor 路 Royal Palm Beach, FL 路 Member since 2013 路 162 posts 路 67 votes
    11y

    $150 is a bit more than average, but they are setting the thermostat and below average.  FP&L will tell you that for every degree you raise the temperature, you will save 8-10% on your bill.  So, if they want to have a $100 bill then..

    72 degrees = $150
    73 = $135
    74 = $121.5
    75 = $109.35
    76 = $98.42

    I would 1) have the coil cleaned ($150 in place, $250 if taken out) and 2) have them set the thermostat at 76.  That is still SUPER cold here in Florida.  

    I would also send them the notice of non-renewal when there lease is up and get some good tenants.  I charge $100/mo pet fee and a $350 pet deposit.  That scares most pet owners away....but I'm fair across the board :-)

    Good luck!

  • Investor 路 San Francisco, CA 路 Member since 2014 路 577 posts 路 203 votes
    11y

    If tenants want to make upgrades and they stay with the house, if demand is reasonable I ask them to pay half. If they decline, it wasn't meant to be 馃槉

  • Natalie KolodijBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Tax Strategist| National Tax Educator| Accepting New Clients 路 Member since 2014 路 3k+ posts 路 4k+ votes
    11y

    I know this is gonna be Florida blasphemy...

    But if they only keep it that cold for the dogs they could also keep the whole house at 76 

    Then keep the dogs in a room during the day w/ a window A/C - I think my energy star rated A/C is estimated at a $70 a year cost. 

    Also- If they want cheaper electric bills they can move into a newer rental- they're rent will likely be at least $50 a month more than your older unit though. 

    They sound like complainy people. My house is 104 years old. I have entire rooms without heat. I bought a majestic electric fire place and shut up about it. I didn't make the landlord change the house. 

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