Sometimes, its easier to work with problem tenants than strong arm them.
Rental Property Investor · Ithaca, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Sometimes, its easier to work with problem tenants than strong arm them.
Most Popular Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votesQuote from @Caleb Brown:
Quote from @Nick Rutkowski:
Quote from @Caleb Brown:
Do you think they would have left if being paid the $1,000? Seems they are the type to take advantage and not follow the rules
Ego will do that lol. Hard part with business is separating your emotions from it. What's important is to learn and move on. Cash for keys is definitely the best way to get people out
in the day when I was very active at court houses steps cash for keys was by far the best way to get folks to move and bad tenants in a state with bad eviction laws to me would be the preferred method. you simply pay them when they are leaving the house not before.. that works fine and you give them more than 1k .. you make it worth their while.. IE motivate them for money.
30 Replies
- Real Estate Agent · Kansas City · Member since 2018 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes1y
Do you think they would have left if being paid the $1,000? Seems they are the type to take advantage and not follow the rules
- 1yMackaylee BeachPro MemberReal Estate Agent · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 492 votes
Navigating the eviction process can certainly be challenging. Unfortunately, relying on a "nice card" approach doesn't always ensure that tenants will vacate the property in good condition. In real estate, you experience both wins and losses.
- Rental Property Investor · Ithaca, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1yLooking back yes I think I would have been able to work it out with them to move out. At least a lot better than the path I chose to take. I think I let my ego get the best of me and instead of doing a cash for keys I went straight to court.
Quote from @Caleb Brown:
Do you think they would have left if being paid the $1,000? Seems they are the type to take advantage and not follow the rules
- Real Estate Agent · Kansas City · Member since 2018 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes1y
Quote from @Nick Rutkowski:
Looking back yes I think I would have been able to work it out with them to move out. At least a lot better than the path I chose to take. I think I let my ego get the best of me and instead of doing a cash for keys I went straight to court.Quote from @Caleb Brown:
Do you think they would have left if being paid the $1,000? Seems they are the type to take advantage and not follow the rules
Ego will do that lol. Hard part with business is separating your emotions from it. What's important is to learn and move on. Cash for keys is definitely the best way to get people out
- Rental Property Investor · Ithaca, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
Quote from @Mackaylee Beach:
Navigating the eviction process can certainly be challenging. Unfortunately, relying on a "nice card" approach doesn't always ensure that tenants will vacate the property in good condition. In real estate, you experience both wins and losses.
True, people can be unpredictable. Maybe the path I chose was the best, but my wallet would disagree. I still think if I would have worked it out with them rather than jumping straight to court, I would have taken a smaller loss.
- Rental Property Investor · Ithaca, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
Quote from @Caleb Brown:
Quote from @Nick Rutkowski:
Looking back yes I think I would have been able to work it out with them to move out. At least a lot better than the path I chose to take. I think I let my ego get the best of me and instead of doing a cash for keys I went straight to court.Quote from @Caleb Brown:
Do you think they would have left if being paid the $1,000? Seems they are the type to take advantage and not follow the rules
Ego will do that lol. Hard part with business is separating your emotions from it. What's important is to learn and move on. Cash for keys is definitely the best way to get people out
Agreed. I’ve been doing this for almost 10 years, you’d think I’d know better. As long as someone can learn from my mistake and not do it themselves then that’s all I ask.
- 1yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Caleb Brown:
Quote from @Nick Rutkowski:
Looking back yes I think I would have been able to work it out with them to move out. At least a lot better than the path I chose to take. I think I let my ego get the best of me and instead of doing a cash for keys I went straight to court.Quote from @Caleb Brown:
Do you think they would have left if being paid the $1,000? Seems they are the type to take advantage and not follow the rules
Ego will do that lol. Hard part with business is separating your emotions from it. What's important is to learn and move on. Cash for keys is definitely the best way to get people out
in the day when I was very active at court houses steps cash for keys was by far the best way to get folks to move and bad tenants in a state with bad eviction laws to me would be the preferred method. you simply pay them when they are leaving the house not before.. that works fine and you give them more than 1k .. you make it worth their while.. IE motivate them for money.
- Rental Property Investor · Ithaca, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1yThat's how I would propose it as an option next time. It costs me $1,500 to evict a tenant with it usually taking two-three months. To strengthen my case I'm suppose to refuse rent for the months I'm evicting. Being out three months of rent plus $1,500, I'd be better off handing back their SD and forgiving the month of rent they couldn't pay.
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Caleb Brown:
Quote from @Nick Rutkowski:
Looking back yes I think I would have been able to work it out with them to move out. At least a lot better than the path I chose to take. I think I let my ego get the best of me and instead of doing a cash for keys I went straight to court.Quote from @Caleb Brown:
Do you think they would have left if being paid the $1,000? Seems they are the type to take advantage and not follow the rules
Ego will do that lol. Hard part with business is separating your emotions from it. What's important is to learn and move on. Cash for keys is definitely the best way to get people out
in the day when I was very active at court houses steps cash for keys was by far the best way to get folks to move and bad tenants in a state with bad eviction laws to me would be the preferred method. you simply pay them when they are leaving the house not before.. that works fine and you give them more than 1k .. you make it worth their while.. IE motivate them for money.
- 1yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Nick Rutkowski:
That's how I would propose it as an option next time. It costs me $1,500 to evict a tenant with it usually taking two-three months. To strengthen my case I'm suppose to refuse rent for the months I'm evicting. Being out three months of rent plus $1,500, I'd be better off handing back their SD and forgiving the month of rent they couldn't pay.Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Caleb Brown:
Quote from @Nick Rutkowski:
Looking back yes I think I would have been able to work it out with them to move out. At least a lot better than the path I chose to take. I think I let my ego get the best of me and instead of doing a cash for keys I went straight to court.Quote from @Caleb Brown:
Do you think they would have left if being paid the $1,000? Seems they are the type to take advantage and not follow the rules
Ego will do that lol. Hard part with business is separating your emotions from it. What's important is to learn and move on. Cash for keys is definitely the best way to get people out
in the day when I was very active at court houses steps cash for keys was by far the best way to get folks to move and bad tenants in a state with bad eviction laws to me would be the preferred method. you simply pay them when they are leaving the house not before.. that works fine and you give them more than 1k .. you make it worth their while.. IE motivate them for money.
the only thing with that is protecting future landlords.. but then again thats a personal choice..
- 1yJoshua ChristensenPro MemberReal Estate Broker · Albuquerque, NM · Member since 2015 · 281 posts · 232 votes
@Nick Rutkowski Thanks for sharing this very painful experience. Wow!
I've seen some doozys as well. I agree that working with people is easier and more cost effective than the alternative.
As I read this, I'm considering creating a Cash For Keys written program that I can give my tenants at lease signing to remind them to come to me rather than just stop paying. I'm not quite sure what it would look like, but I definitely want my units back in rentable condition with as little down time as possible.
Thanks! Have an amazing weekend
- Investor · Fort Washington, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
I really don't get it. They wanted to leave but you chose to evict them. Was the reason to evict so you can pursue them or sue for something? If they were only there a month you could re-rent easy with little to no turnover renovation. I assume you know at this point but in general, the goal is the screen for a very good tenant and keep them there as long as possible. You see all the expenses you had in just that. People who fail to keep good tenants and turn over every year, they lose.
- 1yDan H.Pro MemberInvestor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Nick Rutkowski:
That's how I would propose it as an option next time. It costs me $1,500 to evict a tenant with it usually taking two-three months. To strengthen my case I'm suppose to refuse rent for the months I'm evicting. Being out three months of rent plus $1,500, I'd be better off handing back their SD and forgiving the month of rent they couldn't pay.Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Caleb Brown:
Quote from @Nick Rutkowski:
Looking back yes I think I would have been able to work it out with them to move out. At least a lot better than the path I chose to take. I think I let my ego get the best of me and instead of doing a cash for keys I went straight to court.Quote from @Caleb Brown:
Do you think they would have left if being paid the $1,000? Seems they are the type to take advantage and not follow the rules
Ego will do that lol. Hard part with business is separating your emotions from it. What's important is to learn and move on. Cash for keys is definitely the best way to get people out
in the day when I was very active at court houses steps cash for keys was by far the best way to get folks to move and bad tenants in a state with bad eviction laws to me would be the preferred method. you simply pay them when they are leaving the house not before.. that works fine and you give them more than 1k .. you make it worth their while.. IE motivate them for money.
the only thing with that is protecting future landlords.. but then again thats a personal choice..
Exactly this and why you should not do cash for keys to reward poor tenant actions. You are training the tenant on exactly how to $crew the next LL. If everyone took the cash for keys approach, then the odds of a LL getting such a tenant increases.
I have never had to do a cash for keys. I have been asked quite a few times. I suspect most who requested cash for keys had previously received cash for keys.
What I do instead is explain:
- the housing shortage in my market and that an eviction will forever make it difficult to find a quality rental in this market.
- I will ding their credit such that all credit cards and other debt will cost them more.- I will keep their security deposit for funds owed.
- I will do my best to garnish future wages until their debt to me is paid in full.
This has worked 100% time so far. Zero evictions and zero cash for keys. My family has had rentals almost 50 years. I think it is good screening, luck, and that my tenants believe what I tell them.
Do not reward tenant bad behavior!
- 1yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Nick Rutkowski:
That's how I would propose it as an option next time. It costs me $1,500 to evict a tenant with it usually taking two-three months. To strengthen my case I'm suppose to refuse rent for the months I'm evicting. Being out three months of rent plus $1,500, I'd be better off handing back their SD and forgiving the month of rent they couldn't pay.Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Caleb Brown:
Quote from @Nick Rutkowski:
Looking back yes I think I would have been able to work it out with them to move out. At least a lot better than the path I chose to take. I think I let my ego get the best of me and instead of doing a cash for keys I went straight to court.Quote from @Caleb Brown:
Do you think they would have left if being paid the $1,000? Seems they are the type to take advantage and not follow the rules
Ego will do that lol. Hard part with business is separating your emotions from it. What's important is to learn and move on. Cash for keys is definitely the best way to get people out
in the day when I was very active at court houses steps cash for keys was by far the best way to get folks to move and bad tenants in a state with bad eviction laws to me would be the preferred method. you simply pay them when they are leaving the house not before.. that works fine and you give them more than 1k .. you make it worth their while.. IE motivate them for money.
the only thing with that is protecting future landlords.. but then again thats a personal choice..
Exactly this and why you should not do cash for keys to reward poor tenant actions. You are training the tenant on exactly how to $crew the next LL. If everyone took the cash for keys approach, then the odds of a LL getting such a tenant increases.
I have never had to do a cash for keys. I have been asked quite a few times. I suspect most who requested cash for keys had previously received cash for keys.
What I do instead is explain:
- the housing shortage in my market and that an eviction will forever make it difficult to find a quality rental in this market.
- I will ding their credit such that all credit cards and other debt will cost them more.- I will keep their security deposit for funds owed.
- I will do my best to garnish future wages until their debt to me is paid in full.
This has worked 100% time so far. Zero evictions and zero cash for keys. My family has had rentals almost 50 years. I think it is good screening, luck, and that my tenants believe what I tell them.
Do not reward tenant bad behavior!
Dan your market/assets/tenants are on a totally different level than a good majority of the rest of the country. One of the things many who think CA OR WA are too expensive or are anti landlord.. this works two ways.. and exactly how you describe it.. Tenants fool with you and they will end up in the Barrio..
in my court house steps days these were not tenants these were very pissed off homeowners who just lost thier home.. completely different their credit is already trashed etc.. So cash for keys got them moved and kept them from destroying the house on the way out.. I mean one family on one home i bought basically stripped down to the studs .. everything was gone by the time I got them out.
- Property Manager · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2024 · 39 posts · 16 votes1y
Hi @Nick Rutkowski,
Yeah evictions are always tough. I'm in CA and you're in NY so we have it a bit harder than most states to evict a tenant. Thanks for sharing this, I will be mindful of this myself when moving forward. - Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes1y
No offense, but that's a terrible idea! You are telling the tenant in advance that they can break their lease at any time and get paid to do it. If they want to leave, for any reason, they just have to pretend they can't afford the rent. You'll let them break their lease and hand them cash.
I manage 400 rentals. I get rid of bad tenants regularly and have never paid any of them to leave.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews - Rental Property Investor · Ithaca, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
Quote from @Nathan Gesner:
No offense, but that's a terrible idea! You are telling the tenant in advance that they can break their lease at any time and get paid to do it. If they want to leave, for any reason, they just have to pretend they can't afford the rent. You'll let them break their lease and hand them cash.
I manage 400 rentals. I get rid of bad tenants regularly and have never paid any of them to leave.
I did it the opposite way, I strong armed them, rammed them through court, and put a judgement against them. The "correct" way I'm assuming you're referring to. Maybe you're a better judge of people than I am, I admit I'm not the best at judging others and let a few slip through.
Just looking back, I've evicted enough people to see where I could have done it differently. For this case in particular, I think cash for keys or absolving them of past rent as soon as they hand me the keys would have worked better than going through a NY eviction. But each eviction is different. 9/10 I'm doing it the way you describe - no money back, get out asap, take them to court, judgement, garnishing. If I find out where they live next, I'll send them my contractor's bill and a small claims court paperwork. I posted this story because it was different, at least, in my experience it was. Hopefully it could help out someone else.
- Rental Property Investor · Ithaca, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
Quote from @Josh Otero:
Hi @Nick Rutkowski,
Yeah evictions are always tough. I'm in CA and you're in NY so we have it a bit harder than most states to evict a tenant. Thanks for sharing this, I will be mindful of this myself when moving forward.Our states are tough for evictions. Its easy for everyone else to say, "kick them out as soon as possible" not realizing "soon as possible" is 3-6 months. It's not a quick enough way, although cash for keys goes against all landlording lessons we are taught. I think it's a tool you should not count out if it means a tenant leaves in a month vs 6. I don't know what they tell you in CA but here in NY we are suppose to reject any sort of income during the time of the eviction. There goes months of income and fees paid to lawyers.
- Rental Property Investor · Ithaca, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1yI've had my lawyer write up an agreement for me one time. You might as well let them do it if your state is particular with how evictions are done. Here in NY if I wrote a cash for keys agreement, it would have to be filed in specific legal places with certain documents and notarized. Lawyers have that paperwork on hand, much easier for me. I leave legal matters to the pros.
Quote from @Joshua Christensen:
@Nick Rutkowski Thanks for sharing this very painful experience. Wow!
I've seen some doozys as well. I agree that working with people is easier and more cost effective than the alternative.
As I read this, I'm considering creating a Cash For Keys written program that I can give my tenants at lease signing to remind them to come to me rather than just stop paying. I'm not quite sure what it would look like, but I definitely want my units back in rentable condition with as little down time as possible.
Thanks! Have an amazing weekend
- Rental Property Investor · Ithaca, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1yThey were there for about 6 months before this happened. Yep. See what ego does? I would not give them their deposit back because they missed a month, which turned into two, which turned into an eviction, which turned into them moving in their family and so on. Looking back, I should have just let them go. It would have saved me a lot of time.
Quote from @Mark Cruse:
I really don't get it. They wanted to leave but you chose to evict them. Was the reason to evict so you can pursue them or sue for something? If they were only there a month you could re-rent easy with little to no turnover renovation. I assume you know at this point but in general, the goal is the screen for a very good tenant and keep them there as long as possible. You see all the expenses you had in just that. People who fail to keep good tenants and turn over every year, they lose.
Yes, the goal is to screen for good tenants, these guys were ones who slipped through. It happens, which is why I'm posting this story so others can learn from my experience.
- Rental Property Investor · Ithaca, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Nick Rutkowski:
That's how I would propose it as an option next time. It costs me $1,500 to evict a tenant with it usually taking two-three months. To strengthen my case I'm suppose to refuse rent for the months I'm evicting. Being out three months of rent plus $1,500, I'd be better off handing back their SD and forgiving the month of rent they couldn't pay.Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Caleb Brown:
Quote from @Nick Rutkowski:
Looking back yes I think I would have been able to work it out with them to move out. At least a lot better than the path I chose to take. I think I let my ego get the best of me and instead of doing a cash for keys I went straight to court.Quote from @Caleb Brown:
Do you think they would have left if being paid the $1,000? Seems they are the type to take advantage and not follow the rules
Ego will do that lol. Hard part with business is separating your emotions from it. What's important is to learn and move on. Cash for keys is definitely the best way to get people out
in the day when I was very active at court houses steps cash for keys was by far the best way to get folks to move and bad tenants in a state with bad eviction laws to me would be the preferred method. you simply pay them when they are leaving the house not before.. that works fine and you give them more than 1k .. you make it worth their while.. IE motivate them for money.
the only thing with that is protecting future landlords.. but then again thats a personal choice..
Exactly this and why you should not do cash for keys to reward poor tenant actions. You are training the tenant on exactly how to $crew the next LL. If everyone took the cash for keys approach, then the odds of a LL getting such a tenant increases.
I have never had to do a cash for keys. I have been asked quite a few times. I suspect most who requested cash for keys had previously received cash for keys.
What I do instead is explain:
- the housing shortage in my market and that an eviction will forever make it difficult to find a quality rental in this market.
- I will ding their credit such that all credit cards and other debt will cost them more.- I will keep their security deposit for funds owed.
- I will do my best to garnish future wages until their debt to me is paid in full.
This has worked 100% time so far. Zero evictions and zero cash for keys. My family has had rentals almost 50 years. I think it is good screening, luck, and that my tenants believe what I tell them.
Do not reward tenant bad behavior!
Dan, you have to reread what I posted, I did the opposite and evicted them. I admit, I could learn to be a better judge of character, even 10 years in I'm always learning. Id say 100% of my evictions are "no money back, get out now, see you in court, get my judgement, place it on public record."But this one eviction didn't have the same outcome as the others. Which is why I posted it with my own introspection.
- Investor · Malakoff, TX · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes1y
This may be more due to the state you're in than the tenant.
- Rental Property Investor · Ithaca, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
Quote from @Eric James:
This may be more due to the state you're in than the tenant.
This too, good point.
- Investor · Fort Washington, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
Quote from @Nick Rutkowski:
They were there for about 6 months before this happened. Yep. See what ego does? I would not give them their deposit back because they missed a month, which turned into two, which turned into an eviction, which turned into them moving in their family and so on. Looking back, I should have just let them go. It would have saved me a lot of time.Quote from @Mark Cruse:
I really don't get it. They wanted to leave but you chose to evict them. Was the reason to evict so you can pursue them or sue for something? If they were only there a month you could re-rent easy with little to no turnover renovation. I assume you know at this point but in general, the goal is the screen for a very good tenant and keep them there as long as possible. You see all the expenses you had in just that. People who fail to keep good tenants and turn over every year, they lose.
Yes, the goal is to screen for good tenants, these guys were ones who slipped through. It happens, which is why I'm posting this story so others can learn from my experience.
Yes, valuable lesson learned. I get wanting to keep the deposit. I would want too as well. In this case I'd tell them I was keeping it, requesting they leave, and I wouldn't take action in court for anything. They would be free and clear. If they refused, I know at least where I am, it would be months of them getting free rent through evection.
Either way, thanks for posting so others can avoid this. No landlord here who has been in it for a while has not has some expensive lesson learned.
- Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes1y
Thanks for posting...good to share the tough stories.
I can't invest in an area where it takes months to evict. Low probability but high risk.
- Huntsville, AL · Member since 2024 · 50 posts · 23 votes1y
In my experience it's always best to work with problem tenants than go through the eviction process. Did you self manage or use a Property Management Company?
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