Should a PM walk the property before dispatching a plumber?

[Kaven L.]

We pay a PM to manage a SFH, and this past week we received a $1k bill from a plumber for fixing the washing machine drain pan. I'm a little frustrated because from the plumbing bill I don't understand what exactly was repaired and why. I believe the PM lives an hour and a half away (purchased PM business that we were previously using) and didn't visit the home before sending out the plumber because they didn't seem to know any more details about the invoice than what was written in the description. Is it standard practice for a PM to visit the home and see what the issue is before sending out a repair person? I'd be more receptive to the bill if I knew exactly what was wrong and what services were done.

[Taylor Dasch]

I would definitely find out exactly what happened and if they did visit the property prior to dispatching them. Normally I wouldnt expect the PM to do that but if it was $1000, I would at least expect them to get a quote or offer to let me find my own plumber / get quotes. 

[Kaven L.]

After discussing, the plumber took longer because they weren't provided measurements or good detail of what the problem was. The plumber had to drive to the store to get the right sized part, and then also was not told that he didn't have to install the tenant's washer which would have saved us money because he called a second plumber to come over and help him lift the washer. Theoretically the bill would have been lower if my PM had visited and briefed the plumber prior to engaging him. 

[Kaven L.]

Is it reasonable to ask the PM to at least make a visit next time to brief the service provider on what the issue is, or is this technically outside of the scope of a usual PM's services?

[Adam Bartomeo]

You are funny! We get about 200 - 300 maintenance requests every month; I would have to hire a FT property manager just to "walk" the maintenance concerns. Which isn't a problem if the owners wanted to pay about 20% per month. Our solution to this has been our Maintenace Techs. We dispatch them first at $50/hr to see if there is a simple fix and there most often is. It has worked out to be a win/win. BTW $1000 sounds like a LOT OF $$$

[Nathan Gesner]

Quote from @Kaven L.:

Is it reasonable to ask the PM to at least make a visit next time to brief the service provider on what the issue is, or is this technically outside of the scope of a usual PM's services?

It's unreasonable to expect the PM to drive 90 minutes to look at every job before sending a contractor. That's three hours out of that manager's day, plus gas. 

It's also unreasonable to expect the PM to know enough about every job that they can identify the problem and explain exactly what the plumber needs.

On the other hand, this whole situation stinks. Didn't the plumber know in advance that he would need to lift the washing machine? Plumbers should be close to $100 an hour and this sounds like four man-hours, maximum. If the drain pan isn't working, that must mean the washing machine is leaking, which should be a tenant issue if the machine belongs to them. I just don't understand what happened here.

Your PM could do a better job by requiring the tenant to take pictures or video so they understand the issue and can share that information with the plumber.

[Kaven L.]

What happened was our previous PM handed over their business to a new PM who lives 90 minutes away (previous PM was local). The whole situation sucks because new tenants moved in and had trouble with their washer install, so the PM dispatched a plumber. The issue ended up was with the drain pan, so the plumber spent time driving to Home Depot. Tenants are responsible for their own install of washer/dryer but the plumber called over a second person and installed it on our dime. 

[Kaven L.]

Quote from @Adam Bartomeo:

You are funny! We get about 200 - 300 maintenance requests every month; I would have to hire a FT property manager just to "walk" the maintenance concerns. Which isn't a problem if the owners wanted to pay about 20% per month. Our solution to this has been our Maintenace Techs. We dispatch them first at $50/hr to see if there is a simple fix and there most often is. It has worked out to be a win/win. BTW $1000 sounds like a LOT OF $$$

 Oh interesting, are the maintenance techs in-house employees, or are they contracted but at a cheaper rate?

[Adam Bartomeo]

Quote from @Kaven Li:

Quote from @Adam Bartomeo:

You are funny! We get about 200 - 300 maintenance requests every month; I would have to hire a FT property manager just to "walk" the maintenance concerns. Which isn't a problem if the owners wanted to pay about 20% per month. Our solution to this has been our Maintenace Techs. We dispatch them first at $50/hr to see if there is a simple fix and there most often is. It has worked out to be a win/win. BTW $1000 sounds like a LOT OF $$$

 Oh interesting, are the maintenance techs in-house employees, or are they contracted but at a cheaper rate?

 Yes, they work directly for us.

[Craig Janet]

I'm still not understanding the issue. A drain pan is for emergency leaks from the washer, I would bet 90% of households don't have one (I don't). If that is all they did $1000 is outrageous. 

This is an issue for your PM. I don't expect them to drive out to every maintenance issue but they need to communicate with the tenant to get as much information as possible. Many issues could be fixed over the phone or simply denied because it's not a land lord's responsibility.  Instead they get a maintenance request and call an expensive plumber who is unsupervised and pretty much has a blank check to do whatever they want. 

[Kaven L.]

Quote from @Craig Janet:

I'm still not understanding the issue. A drain pan is for emergency leaks from the washer, I would bet 90% of households don't have one (I don't). If that is all they did $1000 is outrageous. 

This is an issue for your PM. I don't expect them to drive out to every maintenance issue but they need to communicate with the tenant to get as much information as possible. Many issues could be fixed over the phone or simply denied because it's not a land lord's responsibility.  Instead they get a maintenance request and call an expensive plumber who is unsupervised and pretty much has a blank check to do whatever they want. 

 The bill was just under $1,100 and it covered replacing the drain pan and installing the washing machine. The tenant actually just moved in and per the lease they're responsible for washer and dryer, but their installer couldn't install the washer due to the non-functioning drain pan. 

[Bill B.]

A drain pan is a $50, maybe $100 piece of plastic that should have already been there unless they cracked it trying to install their washer. 

No chance the PM should go there ahead of time. But…the plumber should send picture of problem with an estimate to PM. If it’s over $250 they should call you for approval otherwise just fix it. Then they should send a picture of the fixed situation. 

As mentioned above. There wouldn’t be “a problem with the drain pan” unless the washer was overflowing. That’s its job. To protect the floor or more importantly the lower level ceiling in the case of a leak/overflow form the washer. 99% of them never do anything their entire life. i would have balked at a $500 estimate for that job.

Ps. This is just another argument for ALWAYS including appliances with a rental. You just paid more than buying a washer and dryer with delivery an installation. I wonder what it will cost you when they remove their washer dryer and damage the pan again. 

[Joe S.]

First of all $1000 to change Drain pan!!!!???😰. It sounds like the plumber took advantage of the situation.

second… Many property managers wouldn’t know much difference between a hammer or a screwdriver so expecting them to go assess the situation is not practical.

Thrid…The  property manager should be doing some pushback on behalf of the Landlord for such an unrealistic price.  Verbiage such as they’ll never use that plumber again for such unrealistic price if it is not adjusted downward. 

P.S if I were you, I would be upset as well.

[Joe S.]

Quote from @Bill B.:

A drain pan is a $50, maybe $100 piece of plastic that should have already been there unless they cracked it trying to install their washer. 

No chance the PM should go there ahead of time. But…the plumber should send picture of problem with an estimate to PM. If it’s over $250 they should call you for approval otherwise just fix it. Then they should send a picture of the fixed situation. 

As mentioned above. There wouldn’t be “a problem with the drain pan” unless the washer was overflowing. That’s its job. To protect the floor or more importantly the lower level ceiling in the case of a leak/overflow form the washer. 99% of them never do anything their entire life. i would have balked at a $500 estimate for that job.

Ps. This is just another argument for ALWAYS including appliances with a rental. You just paid more than buying a washer and dryer with delivery an installation. I wonder what it will cost you when they remove their washer dryer and damage the pan again. 

Makes me wonder why the Property Manager would not have told the tenant that it’s their responsibility to hook up their own washer. This poster definitely got shafted in my opinion. 

[Adam Michael Andrews]

OP is asking the wrong question. Part of the premise of hiring a manager is that they will manage repairs, including efficiency of repairs.

Anyone can pick up a phone and throw unlimited amounts of money at a vague reported problem. That does not qualify as "managing repairs." You could do that yourself. There is near-zero value add.

Your manager failed you because they didn't care to understand the problem or to follow up on the *right* solution. They did not communicate the scope well to the plumber, who it sounds like should not have been involved in the first place

I would have a point-blank conversation about the above with your manager and ask who he or she thinks should cover the waste of paying multiple professionals to shuffle a thin plastic piece underneath an appliance the tenant was responsible for installing in the first place.

[Kaven L.]

Quote from @Adam Michael Andrews:

OP is asking the wrong question. Part of the premise of hiring a manager is that they will manage repairs, including efficiency of repairs.

Anyone can pick up a phone and throw unlimited amounts of money at a vague reported problem. That does not qualify as "managing repairs." You could do that yourself. There is near-zero value add.

Your manager failed you because they didn't care to understand the problem or to follow up on the *right* solution. They did not communicate the scope well to the plumber, who it sounds like should not have been involved in the first place

I would have a point-blank conversation about the above with your manager and ask who he or she thinks should cover the waste of paying multiple professionals to shuffle a thin plastic piece underneath an appliance the tenant was responsible for installing in the first place.

 Thanks all! I called the plumbing company and kindly negotiated 2 hours off the bill, bringing it down to $787. I then asked my PM to request 1-1.5 hours worth of labor from the tenant. What happened was the plumber charged six hours of labor which included driving to the store and buying a new drain pan, and then waiting for a second plumber to show up and help lift the washing machine. The tenants just moved in, and they're responsible for their own washer install, but their installer refused because the drain pan was slightly the wrong fit. The materials charge was $180, and from Google I'm reading that a 400% markup on parts happens sometimes. I personally wish we skipped the drain pan install since I believe newer washers have sensors inside. I live in apartments that aren't on ground floor and none of the apartments I've lived in have a drain pan. 

[Adam Michael Andrews]

Quote from @Kaven L.:

Quote from @Adam Michael Andrews:

OP is asking the wrong question. Part of the premise of hiring a manager is that they will manage repairs, including efficiency of repairs.

Anyone can pick up a phone and throw unlimited amounts of money at a vague reported problem. That does not qualify as "managing repairs." You could do that yourself. There is near-zero value add.

Your manager failed you because they didn't care to understand the problem or to follow up on the *right* solution. They did not communicate the scope well to the plumber, who it sounds like should not have been involved in the first place

I would have a point-blank conversation about the above with your manager and ask who he or she thinks should cover the waste of paying multiple professionals to shuffle a thin plastic piece underneath an appliance the tenant was responsible for installing in the first place.

 Thanks all! I called the plumbing company and kindly negotiated 2 hours off the bill, bringing it down to $787. I then asked my PM to request 1-1.5 hours worth of labor from the tenant. What happened was the plumber charged six hours of labor which included driving to the store and buying a new drain pan, and then waiting for a second plumber to show up and help lift the washing machine. The tenants just moved in, and they're responsible for their own washer install, but their installer refused because the drain pan was slightly the wrong fit. The materials charge was $180, and from Google I'm reading that a 400% markup on parts happens sometimes. I personally wish we skipped the drain pan install since I believe newer washers have sensors inside. I live in apartments that aren't on ground floor and none of the apartments I've lived in have a drain pan. 

I am glad you are getting some money back on this situation, but the fact remains that your PM was seriously negligent in this situation and oversaw the run up of this ridiculous and unreasonable bill. You still need to address their role in this situation directly or it will happen again as managing repairs is a core part of the PM role.

[Kaven L.]

I emailed the PM yesterday and explained I was unhappy with how the situation was handled. Is it fair to ask the tenant to cover a piece? It was pretty upsetting the PM didn't do a good job communicating to the plumber the washer install is tenant's responsibility, nor did they do a good job explaining what happened to cause a 6-hour job at $1100, or try to lower it before charging me. This was the email I received: 

"I received a call from the tenant yesterday. They were having a new washer & dryers being delivered, upon the delivery the installer was unable to install due to the flooring.
Please see attached.
The funds in your reserve acct is $1000. Please advise regarding payment. I can pay a portion and you can pay the remaining balance."

[Adam Michael Andrews]

Quote from @Kaven L.:

I emailed the PM yesterday and explained I was unhappy with how the situation was handled. Is it fair to ask the tenant to cover a piece? It was pretty upsetting the PM didn't do a good job communicating to the plumber the washer install is tenant's responsibility, nor did they do a good job explaining what happened to cause a 6-hour job at $1100, or try to lower it before charging me. This was the email I received: 

"I received a call from the tenant yesterday. They were having a new washer & dryers being delivered, upon the delivery the installer was unable to install due to the flooring.
Please see attached.
The funds in your reserve acct is $1000. Please advise regarding payment. I can pay a portion and you can pay the remaining balance."

It’s your relationship to manage. For me, I would need them understand this was a failure on their part, and it can’t happen again. Hopefully they have that sense and the blame isn’t being deflected on other parties. They all represent themselves, your PM is supposed to represent YOU and that didn’t happen.

This immediate situation is almost secondary to the fact your manager is being negligent with your money. That said I would start negotiations billing back the full amount of the job to the tenant per their lease agreement and responsibility for the install.

[Kaven L.]

Quote from @Adam Michael Andrews:

Quote from @Kaven L.:

I emailed the PM yesterday and explained I was unhappy with how the situation was handled. Is it fair to ask the tenant to cover a piece? It was pretty upsetting the PM didn't do a good job communicating to the plumber the washer install is tenant's responsibility, nor did they do a good job explaining what happened to cause a 6-hour job at $1100, or try to lower it before charging me. This was the email I received: 

"I received a call from the tenant yesterday. They were having a new washer & dryers being delivered, upon the delivery the installer was unable to install due to the flooring.
Please see attached.
The funds in your reserve acct is $1000. Please advise regarding payment. I can pay a portion and you can pay the remaining balance."

It’s your relationship to manage. For me, I would need them understand this was a failure on their part, and it can’t happen again. Hopefully they have that sense and the blame isn’t being deflected on other parties. They all represent themselves, your PM is supposed to represent YOU and that didn’t happen.

This immediate situation is almost secondary to the fact your manager is being negligent with your money. That said I would start negotiations billing back the full amount of the job to the tenant per their lease agreement and responsibility for the install.

 Thanks Adam. I'll wait to see what the PM says. I agree it doesn't seem like they have my best interests in mind. The tenants are an entity client of the PM and the PM mentioned she rents 10+ homes to them and she loves renting to them. Seems like a conflict of interest.