sec 8nswers It's not that complicated folks

[Bob Stevens]

Ok so it seems EVERYONE is making renting to sec 8 MUCH more complicated than it needs to be, not sure why. Maybe some guru is selling courses and telling everyone it is. Well, it's not. So here are answer to most of the questions I am seeing. 

Screen EXACTLY as you would for any tenant. 

When buying a prop, with a tenant already in, YES, get a copy of the HAP, agreement and lease, Call the office and make sure all is in order, DO NOT trust the seller. 

YES, the SD will come to you, if not, NOT your problem, Tell the tenant previous owner never gave to me. 

YES, you WILL fail your inspection, so what, everyone does. They will provide you with a list of items, do them. You have 30 days (in most states)

NO NEVER supply appliances (OH you do not have to) Why? When they break its your problem, when the tenant brings their own, yep, it's their problem.

If they do not pay their portion (if they have one) you say, " hey you are breaking the rules of your program, if you do not pay you will " lose your free ride ". watch how fast they pay. If not, evict, the same way you evict any tenant. 

NO, you do not determine how much sec 8 is going to pay, it's based on the FMR and in some cases they pay more.

If the tenant is not allowing access to do a repair (NEVER in 10 years has this happened to me) you put a 24 notice on the door and go in. ITS YOUR house not theirs. If they still give you a hard time, (not sure why they would make no sense) turn on your phone and record it. Tell them you are calling the office, and they just may lose their free ride. Watch how fast they accommodate you. Folks its ALL about wording, Be tough but polite.

Rent amount, they pay the FMR, and is some cases more. If you get a rent increase and the tenants portion goes up a little and they complain, say oh well you can leave, but the new place will have the same rent amount. So, suck it up and pay the extra X or move to a lower " class" area where the FMR will be lower. Either way I am getting the rent increase.

Best sites to market your property, the Sec 8 site.

Last, you rent to them the same exact way you rent to anyone, just more paperwork. 

Folks stop making it more difficult than it needs to be, buy right, Reno right, rent right, exactly how you would with any tenant.

I hope my suggestions help good luck to all.

[Colleen F.]

@Michael Smythe  I can't agree more on the limitations there should be on section 8. Sure you have some people who have limited ability to move up the economic ladder because they have intellectual or mental health issues but I just don't get long term section 8 for as many people as there are on it. It crosses generations.

[Jill F.]

Quote from @Bob Stevens:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Bob Stevens:

Quote from @Jill F.:

Quote from @Bob Stevens:

Quote from @Jill F.:
Hud "fair market rent" determinations of "reasonable" rent are based on the 40th percentile of rents for a "moderate" apartment in a given small market rent (zip code) area. I don't compete on price. My apartments are nicer than the median or average apartments in the markets where I compete, and as a result easily command more rent than section 8 will pay. I am generally above the 75th percentile of rents in my markets so my apartments always fail the HUD "reasonableness" requirement. The section 8 business model just doesn't work with my business model. They want to pay me $670 in a neighborhood where I have a line of people willing to pay me $825 and in another area $1050 where I get $1295. No thanks.

 Sex 8 ALWAYS pays more, much more then cash tenants in Cleveland and the burbs. I just got 975 for a 2 br in N Collinwood, MAX cash 750. 850 FOR 1 BR in East Cleveland vs maybe 600. 1400. Not sure how you fail, reno is the same way for cash. I have done more than a thousand, move in and outs and countless reno/repairs in  Cleveland.

You are wrong. How many Section 8 tenants do you think are in the Redwood apartments? (Hint: 0, because they charge too much. Section 8 will deem their asking rent "unreasonable")

I'll explain it again (speaking s-l-o-w-ly): Section 8 uses the HUD guidelines for fair market rent which are based on the 40th percentile of a moderately priced apartment in a given zip code. Section 8 published rents include all utilities and are adjusted down for utilities not paid by the landlord. Section 8 pays more to SLUMLORDS renting less than the average apartments. https://www.huduser.gov/portal/datasets/fmr.html

https://www.huduser.gov/portal/datasets/fmr/fmrs/FY2024_code...

The small area FMR for N Collinwood (44119) is $1000 gross (all utilities included)

Landlords (like me and redwood) with nice rental properties, will not take section 8 because they do not pay enough rent. BTW: The 75th percentile rent for market rate apartments with only w/s/t included even in N Collinwood is $1064. If you had nice places you'd be able to get more rent- Have a nice bottom feed.

 1srt off no need to speak with me in this manner. Of course you do not take sec 8 in the best areas, I never said that. I would never put sec 8 in Chagrin Falls.  I said in CLEVELAND and burbs they are paying more which is true. Slumlord, hmm I don't think so. GH, MH, CH, EULCID is hardly the slum. You are not getting more rent with a cash tenant in those areas no matter how nice you make them. We just got 1450 for 3/1 in GH, not getting any more with a cash tenant, but what do I know I have only done about 80 in N Collinwood, and 500 overall in all the burbs. BTW N Collinwood you will get 1200-1300 for a 3/1 not sure where you are getting 1k from. I could have granite, SS appliances, tile baths and floors, etc, you are not getting more with cash.  I just got 950 for a 2br top floor duplex. 800 for a 1 br in EAST Clev.  Bottom feed, I will take my 20% net caps all day.  wow such an attitude for no reason. 

Good luck 

lets keep in mind we all have Bias  and Bob's bias is Section 8 Cleveland as that is how he makes his living owning and selling these types of assets in multiple markets..

Jill on the other hand is an owner operator in Akron with a ton of first hand experience self managing these assets in basically the same market  Akron and E cleveland are only what 15 20 minute drive from each other.  

There is no sugar coating  section 8,  its a specialty niche and one Earns every penny they make in that niche. And from what I have seen from owning over 200 section 8 doors personally from Detroit to Jackson MS.. is the Juice simply was not worth the squeeze.. so we own Zero today. And most of the clients I do fix and flip funding for in the same markets wont deal with these assets either been there done that and they like market rent and market tenants.. Its a choice one makes once they have owned both types of assets for any number of years..

 Agreed, however there was no reason to "attack " me. I simply stated sec 8 pays more than cash in Cleveland and the burbs which is true. Not sure why she went on a tyrant. No biggy I have moved on.. 

Poor little Bob-- complaining because some woman that 'you don't even know' was mean to you on the internet.  I politely corrected an incorrect statement in your initial post and you then doubled down with b.s. in response to the correct information claiming in some kind of non sequitur to be confused as to how one could 'fail.'  ONCE AGAIN: It is quite possible to get significantly more than section 8 will pay in the neighborhoods that you operate in BECAUSE: hud rules require section 8 to set rent at the 40th percentile of rents in a given zip code. This is basic math. I provided useful information and links instead of b.s. posturing. Additionally, I operate in neighborhoods with lower median incomes than 44119 (44306 and 44310) and routinely get significantly more in rent than section 8 will pay.  In any event, I'm soooo glad you've managed to move on from such a vicious attack :eyeroll:

[David Greathouse]

Quote from @Bob Stevens:

Ok so it seems EVERYONE is making renting to sec 8 MUCH more complicated than it needs to be, not sure why. Maybe some guru is selling courses and telling everyone it is. Well, it's not. So here are answer to most of the questions I am seeing. 

Screen EXACTLY as you would for any tenant. 

When buying a prop, with a tenant already in, YES, get a copy of the HAP, agreement and lease, Call the office and make sure all is in order, DO NOT trust the seller. 

YES, the SD will come to you, if not, NOT your problem, Tell the tenant previous owner never gave to me. 

YES, you WILL fail your inspection, so what, everyone does. They will provide you with a list of items, do them. You have 30 days (in most states)

NO NEVER supply appliances (OH you do not have to) Why? When they break its your problem, when the tenant brings their own, yep, it's their problem.

If they do not pay their portion (if they have one) you say, " hey you are breaking the rules of your program, if you do not pay you will " lose your free ride ". watch how fast they pay. If not, evict, the same way you evict any tenant. 

NO, you do not determine how much sec 8 is going to pay, it's based on the FMR and in some cases they pay more.

If the tenant is not allowing access to do a repair (NEVER in 10 years has this happened to me) you put a 24 notice on the door and go in. ITS YOUR house not theirs. If they still give you a hard time, (not sure why they would make no sense) turn on your phone and record it. Tell them you are calling the office, and they just may lose their free ride. Watch how fast they accommodate you. Folks its ALL about wording, Be tough but polite.

Rent amount, they pay the FMR, and is some cases more. If you get a rent increase and the tenants portion goes up a little and they complain, say oh well you can leave, but the new place will have the same rent amount. So, suck it up and pay the extra X or move to a lower " class" area where the FMR will be lower. Either way I am getting the rent increase.

Best sites to market your property, the Sec 8 site.

Last, you rent to them the same exact way you rent to anyone, just more paperwork. 

Folks stop making it more difficult than it needs to be, buy right, Reno right, rent right, exactly how you would with any tenant.

I hope my suggestions help good luck to all.

 Exactly!!  This is perfect

[Bob Stevens]

Quote from @David Greathouse:

Quote from @Bob Stevens:

Ok so it seems EVERYONE is making renting to sec 8 MUCH more complicated than it needs to be, not sure why. Maybe some guru is selling courses and telling everyone it is. Well, it's not. So here are answer to most of the questions I am seeing. 

Screen EXACTLY as you would for any tenant. 

When buying a prop, with a tenant already in, YES, get a copy of the HAP, agreement and lease, Call the office and make sure all is in order, DO NOT trust the seller. 

YES, the SD will come to you, if not, NOT your problem, Tell the tenant previous owner never gave to me. 

YES, you WILL fail your inspection, so what, everyone does. They will provide you with a list of items, do them. You have 30 days (in most states)

NO NEVER supply appliances (OH you do not have to) Why? When they break its your problem, when the tenant brings their own, yep, it's their problem.

If they do not pay their portion (if they have one) you say, " hey you are breaking the rules of your program, if you do not pay you will " lose your free ride ". watch how fast they pay. If not, evict, the same way you evict any tenant. 

NO, you do not determine how much sec 8 is going to pay, it's based on the FMR and in some cases they pay more.

If the tenant is not allowing access to do a repair (NEVER in 10 years has this happened to me) you put a 24 notice on the door and go in. ITS YOUR house not theirs. If they still give you a hard time, (not sure why they would make no sense) turn on your phone and record it. Tell them you are calling the office, and they just may lose their free ride. Watch how fast they accommodate you. Folks its ALL about wording, Be tough but polite.

Rent amount, they pay the FMR, and is some cases more. If you get a rent increase and the tenants portion goes up a little and they complain, say oh well you can leave, but the new place will have the same rent amount. So, suck it up and pay the extra X or move to a lower " class" area where the FMR will be lower. Either way I am getting the rent increase.

Best sites to market your property, the Sec 8 site.

Last, you rent to them the same exact way you rent to anyone, just more paperwork. 

Folks stop making it more difficult than it needs to be, buy right, Reno right, rent right, exactly how you would with any tenant.

I hope my suggestions help good luck to all.

 Exactly!!  This is perfect

 Well not perfect but a darn good "template. :)  

[Bob Stevens]

Quote from @Jill F.:

Quote from @Bob Stevens:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Bob Stevens:

Quote from @Jill F.:

Quote from @Bob Stevens:

Quote from @Jill F.:
Hud "fair market rent" determinations of "reasonable" rent are based on the 40th percentile of rents for a "moderate" apartment in a given small market rent (zip code) area. I don't compete on price. My apartments are nicer than the median or average apartments in the markets where I compete, and as a result easily command more rent than section 8 will pay. I am generally above the 75th percentile of rents in my markets so my apartments always fail the HUD "reasonableness" requirement. The section 8 business model just doesn't work with my business model. They want to pay me $670 in a neighborhood where I have a line of people willing to pay me $825 and in another area $1050 where I get $1295. No thanks.

 Sex 8 ALWAYS pays more, much more then cash tenants in Cleveland and the burbs. I just got 975 for a 2 br in N Collinwood, MAX cash 750. 850 FOR 1 BR in East Cleveland vs maybe 600. 1400. Not sure how you fail, reno is the same way for cash. I have done more than a thousand, move in and outs and countless reno/repairs in  Cleveland.

You are wrong. How many Section 8 tenants do you think are in the Redwood apartments? (Hint: 0, because they charge too much. Section 8 will deem their asking rent "unreasonable")

I'll explain it again (speaking s-l-o-w-ly): Section 8 uses the HUD guidelines for fair market rent which are based on the 40th percentile of a moderately priced apartment in a given zip code. Section 8 published rents include all utilities and are adjusted down for utilities not paid by the landlord. Section 8 pays more to SLUMLORDS renting less than the average apartments. https://www.huduser.gov/portal/datasets/fmr.html

https://www.huduser.gov/portal/datasets/fmr/fmrs/FY2024_code...

The small area FMR for N Collinwood (44119) is $1000 gross (all utilities included)

Landlords (like me and redwood) with nice rental properties, will not take section 8 because they do not pay enough rent. BTW: The 75th percentile rent for market rate apartments with only w/s/t included even in N Collinwood is $1064. If you had nice places you'd be able to get more rent- Have a nice bottom feed.

 1srt off no need to speak with me in this manner. Of course you do not take sec 8 in the best areas, I never said that. I would never put sec 8 in Chagrin Falls.  I said in CLEVELAND and burbs they are paying more which is true. Slumlord, hmm I don't think so. GH, MH, CH, EULCID is hardly the slum. You are not getting more rent with a cash tenant in those areas no matter how nice you make them. We just got 1450 for 3/1 in GH, not getting any more with a cash tenant, but what do I know I have only done about 80 in N Collinwood, and 500 overall in all the burbs. BTW N Collinwood you will get 1200-1300 for a 3/1 not sure where you are getting 1k from. I could have granite, SS appliances, tile baths and floors, etc, you are not getting more with cash.  I just got 950 for a 2br top floor duplex. 800 for a 1 br in EAST Clev.  Bottom feed, I will take my 20% net caps all day.  wow such an attitude for no reason. 

Good luck 

lets keep in mind we all have Bias  and Bob's bias is Section 8 Cleveland as that is how he makes his living owning and selling these types of assets in multiple markets..

Jill on the other hand is an owner operator in Akron with a ton of first hand experience self managing these assets in basically the same market  Akron and E cleveland are only what 15 20 minute drive from each other.  

There is no sugar coating  section 8,  its a specialty niche and one Earns every penny they make in that niche. And from what I have seen from owning over 200 section 8 doors personally from Detroit to Jackson MS.. is the Juice simply was not worth the squeeze.. so we own Zero today. And most of the clients I do fix and flip funding for in the same markets wont deal with these assets either been there done that and they like market rent and market tenants.. Its a choice one makes once they have owned both types of assets for any number of years..

 Agreed, however there was no reason to "attack " me. I simply stated sec 8 pays more than cash in Cleveland and the burbs which is true. Not sure why she went on a tyrant. No biggy I have moved on.. 

Poor little Bob-- complaining because some woman that 'you don't even know' was mean to you on the internet.  I politely corrected an incorrect statement in your initial post and you then doubled down with b.s. in response to the correct information claiming in some kind of non sequitur to be confused as to how one could 'fail.'  ONCE AGAIN: It is quite possible to get significantly more than section 8 will pay in the neighborhoods that you operate in BECAUSE: hud rules require section 8 to set rent at the 40th percentile of rents in a given zip code. This is basic math. I provided useful information and links instead of b.s. posturing. Additionally, I operate in neighborhoods with lower median incomes than 44119 (44306 and 44310) and routinely get significantly more in rent than section 8 will pay.  In any event, I'm soooo glad you've managed to move on from such a vicious attack :eyeroll:

 Wow you have issues, go away. You are providing zero value. Nothing you posted corrected me as nothing I said was incorrect.  You are 100% incorrect. I am not speculating.  1500- 1700 for a 3 br in Clevland and the burbs is higher than you will get with a cash tenant. Don't believe me, go buy one and see how it goes. Your info is 100% useless as is most on the internet.  I speak /email with CMHA almost daily. You really think you're going to get more then 850 for a 1 br in East Cleveland if there was granite, hot tubs and SS appliances. ? Or more then 1500ish in GH MH WH. Cleveland if there were the same appointments?  Hey, go buy a prop on say Plymouth Ave , diamond it out, let us all know how it goes. 

[Bob Stevens]

Quote from @Michael Smythe:

Agree that S8 often pays more rent than cash for Class D and some Class C areas. Definitely NOT Class A and rarely Class B.

We struggle with newbie investors that buy a Class B rental and fix it up real nice - but they've listened to some fake guru online about S8 and want us to put them in their nicely fixed up property. We'd prefer getting them a cash tenant who will take better care of the property!

OPINION: S8 program should only give voucher holders 6 years max on the program and require them to attend college or trade school to improve their income. Should also require financial literacy programs, so they learn how to budget, save and fix their credit.

I don't like my tax dollars supporting "free loaders" for decades.

 Well everything in Cleveland and the burbs starts with a B. So sec 8 100% pays more in those areas as I mentioned. Of course, in Chagrin, Solon, Beachwood, etc, cash is king which is exactly what I said. Hey, I have a 1 br voucher moving in this week, 875 BAM!! cash would be 650 MAX! But what do I know LOL,

Keep Crushing it @Michael Smythe

[James Wise]

Quote from @Bob Stevens:

Quote from @Jill F.:

Quote from @Bob Stevens:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Bob Stevens:

Quote from @Jill F.:

Quote from @Bob Stevens:

Quote from @Jill F.:
Hud "fair market rent" determinations of "reasonable" rent are based on the 40th percentile of rents for a "moderate" apartment in a given small market rent (zip code) area. I don't compete on price. My apartments are nicer than the median or average apartments in the markets where I compete, and as a result easily command more rent than section 8 will pay. I am generally above the 75th percentile of rents in my markets so my apartments always fail the HUD "reasonableness" requirement. The section 8 business model just doesn't work with my business model. They want to pay me $670 in a neighborhood where I have a line of people willing to pay me $825 and in another area $1050 where I get $1295. No thanks.

 Sex 8 ALWAYS pays more, much more then cash tenants in Cleveland and the burbs. I just got 975 for a 2 br in N Collinwood, MAX cash 750. 850 FOR 1 BR in East Cleveland vs maybe 600. 1400. Not sure how you fail, reno is the same way for cash. I have done more than a thousand, move in and outs and countless reno/repairs in  Cleveland.

You are wrong. How many Section 8 tenants do you think are in the Redwood apartments? (Hint: 0, because they charge too much. Section 8 will deem their asking rent "unreasonable")

I'll explain it again (speaking s-l-o-w-ly): Section 8 uses the HUD guidelines for fair market rent which are based on the 40th percentile of a moderately priced apartment in a given zip code. Section 8 published rents include all utilities and are adjusted down for utilities not paid by the landlord. Section 8 pays more to SLUMLORDS renting less than the average apartments. https://www.huduser.gov/portal/datasets/fmr.html

https://www.huduser.gov/portal/datasets/fmr/fmrs/FY2024_code...

The small area FMR for N Collinwood (44119) is $1000 gross (all utilities included)

Landlords (like me and redwood) with nice rental properties, will not take section 8 because they do not pay enough rent. BTW: The 75th percentile rent for market rate apartments with only w/s/t included even in N Collinwood is $1064. If you had nice places you'd be able to get more rent- Have a nice bottom feed.

 1srt off no need to speak with me in this manner. Of course you do not take sec 8 in the best areas, I never said that. I would never put sec 8 in Chagrin Falls.  I said in CLEVELAND and burbs they are paying more which is true. Slumlord, hmm I don't think so. GH, MH, CH, EULCID is hardly the slum. You are not getting more rent with a cash tenant in those areas no matter how nice you make them. We just got 1450 for 3/1 in GH, not getting any more with a cash tenant, but what do I know I have only done about 80 in N Collinwood, and 500 overall in all the burbs. BTW N Collinwood you will get 1200-1300 for a 3/1 not sure where you are getting 1k from. I could have granite, SS appliances, tile baths and floors, etc, you are not getting more with cash.  I just got 950 for a 2br top floor duplex. 800 for a 1 br in EAST Clev.  Bottom feed, I will take my 20% net caps all day.  wow such an attitude for no reason. 

Good luck 

lets keep in mind we all have Bias  and Bob's bias is Section 8 Cleveland as that is how he makes his living owning and selling these types of assets in multiple markets..

Jill on the other hand is an owner operator in Akron with a ton of first hand experience self managing these assets in basically the same market  Akron and E cleveland are only what 15 20 minute drive from each other.  

There is no sugar coating  section 8,  its a specialty niche and one Earns every penny they make in that niche. And from what I have seen from owning over 200 section 8 doors personally from Detroit to Jackson MS.. is the Juice simply was not worth the squeeze.. so we own Zero today. And most of the clients I do fix and flip funding for in the same markets wont deal with these assets either been there done that and they like market rent and market tenants.. Its a choice one makes once they have owned both types of assets for any number of years..

 Agreed, however there was no reason to "attack " me. I simply stated sec 8 pays more than cash in Cleveland and the burbs which is true. Not sure why she went on a tyrant. No biggy I have moved on.. 

Poor little Bob-- complaining because some woman that 'you don't even know' was mean to you on the internet.  I politely corrected an incorrect statement in your initial post and you then doubled down with b.s. in response to the correct information claiming in some kind of non sequitur to be confused as to how one could 'fail.'  ONCE AGAIN: It is quite possible to get significantly more than section 8 will pay in the neighborhoods that you operate in BECAUSE: hud rules require section 8 to set rent at the 40th percentile of rents in a given zip code. This is basic math. I provided useful information and links instead of b.s. posturing. Additionally, I operate in neighborhoods with lower median incomes than 44119 (44306 and 44310) and routinely get significantly more in rent than section 8 will pay.  In any event, I'm soooo glad you've managed to move on from such a vicious attack :eyeroll:

 Wow you have issues, go away. You are providing zero value. Nothing you posted corrected me as nothing I said was incorrect.  You are 100% incorrect. I am not speculating.  1500- 1700 for a 3 br in Clevland and the burbs is higher than you will get with a cash tenant. Don't believe me, go buy one and see how it goes. Your info is 100% useless as is most on the internet.  I speak /email with CMHA almost daily. You really think you're going to get more then 850 for a 1 br in East Cleveland if there was granite, hot tubs and SS appliances. ? Or more then 1500ish in GH MH WH. Cleveland if there were the same appointments?  Hey, go buy a prop on say Plymouth Ave , diamond it out, let us all know how it goes. 

This battle gonna be bigger than Mike Tyson vs Jake Paul ya'll.

[Tim Miller]

Section 8 - either you love or hate it. Everyone keeps talking about how great it is and just set your processes around them. But there is a lot more to this and it starts with actually reading the contract you're signing!

See our short list:

Here are just a few items in the Housing Assistance Payments Contract that keeps us from accepting section 8

1. The owner must give the PHA any information on rents charged by owner for other unit.

2. PHA shall not be obligated to pay any late payment if HUD determines that late payment by PHA is beyond the PHA's control.

3. HUD shall have full & free access to contract unit, premises, & all
accounts & other records of the owner that are relevant to HAP
Contract.

4. The owner must grant such access to computerized or
other electronic records & to any computers, facilities & must
provide any information or assistance needed to access the records.

5. PHA failure to pay the owner is not a violation of the lease. The owner may not terminate the tenancy for nonpayment.

6. Must give 90 days notice to vacate

As you can see there are a number of reason not to take section 8. We will
not allow them full access to any of our computers, smart phones,
office and so on.

[Bob Stevens]

Quote from @James Wise:

Quote from @Bob Stevens:

Quote from @Jill F.:

Quote from @Bob Stevens:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Bob Stevens:

Quote from @Jill F.:

Quote from @Bob Stevens:

Quote from @Jill F.:
Hud "fair market rent" determinations of "reasonable" rent are based on the 40th percentile of rents for a "moderate" apartment in a given small market rent (zip code) area. I don't compete on price. My apartments are nicer than the median or average apartments in the markets where I compete, and as a result easily command more rent than section 8 will pay. I am generally above the 75th percentile of rents in my markets so my apartments always fail the HUD "reasonableness" requirement. The section 8 business model just doesn't work with my business model. They want to pay me $670 in a neighborhood where I have a line of people willing to pay me $825 and in another area $1050 where I get $1295. No thanks.

 Sex 8 ALWAYS pays more, much more then cash tenants in Cleveland and the burbs. I just got 975 for a 2 br in N Collinwood, MAX cash 750. 850 FOR 1 BR in East Cleveland vs maybe 600. 1400. Not sure how you fail, reno is the same way for cash. I have done more than a thousand, move in and outs and countless reno/repairs in  Cleveland.

You are wrong. How many Section 8 tenants do you think are in the Redwood apartments? (Hint: 0, because they charge too much. Section 8 will deem their asking rent "unreasonable")

I'll explain it again (speaking s-l-o-w-ly): Section 8 uses the HUD guidelines for fair market rent which are based on the 40th percentile of a moderately priced apartment in a given zip code. Section 8 published rents include all utilities and are adjusted down for utilities not paid by the landlord. Section 8 pays more to SLUMLORDS renting less than the average apartments. https://www.huduser.gov/portal/datasets/fmr.html

https://www.huduser.gov/portal/datasets/fmr/fmrs/FY2024_code...

The small area FMR for N Collinwood (44119) is $1000 gross (all utilities included)

Landlords (like me and redwood) with nice rental properties, will not take section 8 because they do not pay enough rent. BTW: The 75th percentile rent for market rate apartments with only w/s/t included even in N Collinwood is $1064. If you had nice places you'd be able to get more rent- Have a nice bottom feed.

 1srt off no need to speak with me in this manner. Of course you do not take sec 8 in the best areas, I never said that. I would never put sec 8 in Chagrin Falls.  I said in CLEVELAND and burbs they are paying more which is true. Slumlord, hmm I don't think so. GH, MH, CH, EULCID is hardly the slum. You are not getting more rent with a cash tenant in those areas no matter how nice you make them. We just got 1450 for 3/1 in GH, not getting any more with a cash tenant, but what do I know I have only done about 80 in N Collinwood, and 500 overall in all the burbs. BTW N Collinwood you will get 1200-1300 for a 3/1 not sure where you are getting 1k from. I could have granite, SS appliances, tile baths and floors, etc, you are not getting more with cash.  I just got 950 for a 2br top floor duplex. 800 for a 1 br in EAST Clev.  Bottom feed, I will take my 20% net caps all day.  wow such an attitude for no reason. 

Good luck 

lets keep in mind we all have Bias  and Bob's bias is Section 8 Cleveland as that is how he makes his living owning and selling these types of assets in multiple markets..

Jill on the other hand is an owner operator in Akron with a ton of first hand experience self managing these assets in basically the same market  Akron and E cleveland are only what 15 20 minute drive from each other.  

There is no sugar coating  section 8,  its a specialty niche and one Earns every penny they make in that niche. And from what I have seen from owning over 200 section 8 doors personally from Detroit to Jackson MS.. is the Juice simply was not worth the squeeze.. so we own Zero today. And most of the clients I do fix and flip funding for in the same markets wont deal with these assets either been there done that and they like market rent and market tenants.. Its a choice one makes once they have owned both types of assets for any number of years..

 Agreed, however there was no reason to "attack " me. I simply stated sec 8 pays more than cash in Cleveland and the burbs which is true. Not sure why she went on a tyrant. No biggy I have moved on.. 

Poor little Bob-- complaining because some woman that 'you don't even know' was mean to you on the internet.  I politely corrected an incorrect statement in your initial post and you then doubled down with b.s. in response to the correct information claiming in some kind of non sequitur to be confused as to how one could 'fail.'  ONCE AGAIN: It is quite possible to get significantly more than section 8 will pay in the neighborhoods that you operate in BECAUSE: hud rules require section 8 to set rent at the 40th percentile of rents in a given zip code. This is basic math. I provided useful information and links instead of b.s. posturing. Additionally, I operate in neighborhoods with lower median incomes than 44119 (44306 and 44310) and routinely get significantly more in rent than section 8 will pay.  In any event, I'm soooo glad you've managed to move on from such a vicious attack :eyeroll:

 Wow you have issues, go away. You are providing zero value. Nothing you posted corrected me as nothing I said was incorrect.  You are 100% incorrect. I am not speculating.  1500- 1700 for a 3 br in Clevland and the burbs is higher than you will get with a cash tenant. Don't believe me, go buy one and see how it goes. Your info is 100% useless as is most on the internet.  I speak /email with CMHA almost daily. You really think you're going to get more then 850 for a 1 br in East Cleveland if there was granite, hot tubs and SS appliances. ? Or more then 1500ish in GH MH WH. Cleveland if there were the same appointments?  Hey, go buy a prop on say Plymouth Ave , diamond it out, let us all know how it goes. 

This battle gonna be bigger than Mike Tyson vs Jake Paul ya'll.

 I have moved on from this wasted conversation. 

[James Hamling]

Quote from @Bob Stevens:

Ok so it seems EVERYONE is making renting to sec 8 MUCH more complicated than it needs to be, not sure why. Maybe some guru is selling courses and telling everyone it is. Well, it's not. So here are answer to most of the questions I am seeing. 

Screen EXACTLY as you would for any tenant. 

When buying a prop, with a tenant already in, YES, get a copy of the HAP, agreement and lease, Call the office and make sure all is in order, DO NOT trust the seller. 

YES, the SD will come to you, if not, NOT your problem, Tell the tenant previous owner never gave to me. 

YES, you WILL fail your inspection, so what, everyone does. They will provide you with a list of items, do them. You have 30 days (in most states)

NO NEVER supply appliances (OH you do not have to) Why? When they break its your problem, when the tenant brings their own, yep, it's their problem.

If they do not pay their portion (if they have one) you say, " hey you are breaking the rules of your program, if you do not pay you will " lose your free ride ". watch how fast they pay. If not, evict, the same way you evict any tenant. 

NO, you do not determine how much sec 8 is going to pay, it's based on the FMR and in some cases they pay more.

If the tenant is not allowing access to do a repair (NEVER in 10 years has this happened to me) you put a 24 notice on the door and go in. ITS YOUR house not theirs. If they still give you a hard time, (not sure why they would make no sense) turn on your phone and record it. Tell them you are calling the office, and they just may lose their free ride. Watch how fast they accommodate you. Folks its ALL about wording, Be tough but polite.

Rent amount, they pay the FMR, and is some cases more. If you get a rent increase and the tenants portion goes up a little and they complain, say oh well you can leave, but the new place will have the same rent amount. So, suck it up and pay the extra X or move to a lower " class" area where the FMR will be lower. Either way I am getting the rent increase.

Best sites to market your property, the Sec 8 site.

Last, you rent to them the same exact way you rent to anyone, just more paperwork. 

Folks stop making it more difficult than it needs to be, buy right, Reno right, rent right, exactly how you would with any tenant.

I hope my suggestions help good luck to all.

 Yuuup. 

What I did on appliances, I wouldn't supply them but I let them know I had an affiliate vendor who DID offer a "Rent To Own" on appliances for any tenant's I/we had.   Sometimes that brought in as much net as the rents themself, lol. 

I think you should take a week or 2 Bob and write a "Crash Course How-To" e-book and then offer it up for $10 per download. No joke, serious.    I've started considering doing the same on assorted "simple stuff" that for some reason seems so mysterious and "complicated" for way WAY too many. 

[Bob Stevens]

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Bob Stevens:

Ok so it seems EVERYONE is making renting to sec 8 MUCH more complicated than it needs to be, not sure why. Maybe some guru is selling courses and telling everyone it is. Well, it's not. So here are answer to most of the questions I am seeing. 

Screen EXACTLY as you would for any tenant. 

When buying a prop, with a tenant already in, YES, get a copy of the HAP, agreement and lease, Call the office and make sure all is in order, DO NOT trust the seller. 

YES, the SD will come to you, if not, NOT your problem, Tell the tenant previous owner never gave to me. 

YES, you WILL fail your inspection, so what, everyone does. They will provide you with a list of items, do them. You have 30 days (in most states)

NO NEVER supply appliances (OH you do not have to) Why? When they break its your problem, when the tenant brings their own, yep, it's their problem.

If they do not pay their portion (if they have one) you say, " hey you are breaking the rules of your program, if you do not pay you will " lose your free ride ". watch how fast they pay. If not, evict, the same way you evict any tenant. 

NO, you do not determine how much sec 8 is going to pay, it's based on the FMR and in some cases they pay more.

If the tenant is not allowing access to do a repair (NEVER in 10 years has this happened to me) you put a 24 notice on the door and go in. ITS YOUR house not theirs. If they still give you a hard time, (not sure why they would make no sense) turn on your phone and record it. Tell them you are calling the office, and they just may lose their free ride. Watch how fast they accommodate you. Folks its ALL about wording, Be tough but polite.

Rent amount, they pay the FMR, and is some cases more. If you get a rent increase and the tenants portion goes up a little and they complain, say oh well you can leave, but the new place will have the same rent amount. So, suck it up and pay the extra X or move to a lower " class" area where the FMR will be lower. Either way I am getting the rent increase.

Best sites to market your property, the Sec 8 site.

Last, you rent to them the same exact way you rent to anyone, just more paperwork. 

Folks stop making it more difficult than it needs to be, buy right, Reno right, rent right, exactly how you would with any tenant.

I hope my suggestions help good luck to all.

 Yuuup. 

What I did on appliances, I wouldn't supply them but I let them know I had an affiliate vendor who DID offer a "Rent To Own" on appliances for any tenant's I/we had.   Sometimes that brought in as much net as the rents themself, lol. 

I think you should take a week or 2 Bob and write a "Crash Course How-To" e-book and then offer it up for $10 per download. No joke, serious.    I've started considering doing the same on assorted "simple stuff" that for some reason seems so mysterious and "complicated" for way WAY too many. 

 I have been told for years to write a book. I even wanted to monetize for ONLY .99 7 tips on what to look for when walking a prop to purchase, especially the ones that have been vacant for year. But nope I just put the tips on my site LOL. .It really is amazing what is 2nd nature to me/us that others do not know. Hey, it's all about giving back right, um wait, NO LOL. 

I heard there are people paying 7k, YES 7K on " sec 8 courses!! DAM I could have charged $2500, for this, what a bargain LOL. , Can you imagine. After 10 minutes WTH are they talking about. Its just paperwork

All the best 

[Greg M.]

If S8 is so great, can someone explain to me why:

1) The government has to create laws that force landlords to accept it. 

2) The government has to pay shills to come to forums like these and promote it. And I'm not talking about Bob, I'm talking about the S8 experts that are all too willing to help others start accepting S8 and are "in contact" with the HA all the time. They pop up here every few months, never to be seen again.

3) Why aren't landlords tripping over each other to get these so-called wonderful tenants at these alleged higher than market rates?

[James Hamling]

Quote from @Bob Stevens:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Bob Stevens:

Ok so it seems EVERYONE is making renting to sec 8 MUCH more complicated than it needs to be, not sure why. Maybe some guru is selling courses and telling everyone it is. Well, it's not. So here are answer to most of the questions I am seeing. 

Screen EXACTLY as you would for any tenant. 

When buying a prop, with a tenant already in, YES, get a copy of the HAP, agreement and lease, Call the office and make sure all is in order, DO NOT trust the seller. 

YES, the SD will come to you, if not, NOT your problem, Tell the tenant previous owner never gave to me. 

YES, you WILL fail your inspection, so what, everyone does. They will provide you with a list of items, do them. You have 30 days (in most states)

NO NEVER supply appliances (OH you do not have to) Why? When they break its your problem, when the tenant brings their own, yep, it's their problem.

If they do not pay their portion (if they have one) you say, " hey you are breaking the rules of your program, if you do not pay you will " lose your free ride ". watch how fast they pay. If not, evict, the same way you evict any tenant. 

NO, you do not determine how much sec 8 is going to pay, it's based on the FMR and in some cases they pay more.

If the tenant is not allowing access to do a repair (NEVER in 10 years has this happened to me) you put a 24 notice on the door and go in. ITS YOUR house not theirs. If they still give you a hard time, (not sure why they would make no sense) turn on your phone and record it. Tell them you are calling the office, and they just may lose their free ride. Watch how fast they accommodate you. Folks its ALL about wording, Be tough but polite.

Rent amount, they pay the FMR, and is some cases more. If you get a rent increase and the tenants portion goes up a little and they complain, say oh well you can leave, but the new place will have the same rent amount. So, suck it up and pay the extra X or move to a lower " class" area where the FMR will be lower. Either way I am getting the rent increase.

Best sites to market your property, the Sec 8 site.

Last, you rent to them the same exact way you rent to anyone, just more paperwork. 

Folks stop making it more difficult than it needs to be, buy right, Reno right, rent right, exactly how you would with any tenant.

I hope my suggestions help good luck to all.

 Yuuup. 

What I did on appliances, I wouldn't supply them but I let them know I had an affiliate vendor who DID offer a "Rent To Own" on appliances for any tenant's I/we had.   Sometimes that brought in as much net as the rents themself, lol. 

I think you should take a week or 2 Bob and write a "Crash Course How-To" e-book and then offer it up for $10 per download. No joke, serious.    I've started considering doing the same on assorted "simple stuff" that for some reason seems so mysterious and "complicated" for way WAY too many. 

 I have been told for years to write a book. I even wanted to monetize for ONLY .99 7 tips on what to look for when walking a prop to purchase, especially the ones that have been vacant for year. But nope I just put the tips on my site LOL. .It really is amazing what is 2nd nature to me/us that others do not know. Hey, it's all about giving back right, um wait, NO LOL. 

I heard there are people paying 7k, YES 7K on " sec 8 courses!! DAM I could have charged $2500, for this, what a bargain LOL. , Can you imagine. After 10 minutes WTH are they talking about. Its just paperwork

All the best 

Wait WHAT!!!! $7k??!!!! For what?! 

Sec8 I have dealt with literally has entire "How-To" info manuals for landlords they give out, readily, FOR FREE. Because yeah, the only thing that changes is the dang paperwork and a few minor details. 

In my markets there is a city rental license inspection, then a separate sec8 inspection, whopdie-doo, a 2nd inspection, lol. 

And yeah, like you said, listing it is UBER easy, ya put it on the free sec8 site and get ready for 100 calls. 

The lease is the lease, background check is background check. 97% is done exactly the same as a standard rental, so WTF is $7k in EDU for, the 3% of difference???? Which again, all the info is readily available. 

Wow.... I mean what else are they saying for that $7k, "break-through" revelations of genius like pick 1,2,3 wall colors for your units and paint em all with that keeping the paint codes so refresh paint can be done via touchup..... If someone can't figure that nugget out they shouldn't be a landlord full-stop. 

Or "have a few good go to vendors for handyman, mechanicals etc..", ooohhh-aaahhh that's worth $1k easily right there right.... 

Ya know what blows my mind is being a person of pre-internet, is just how many people will throw $ away on BS "Guru" packages vs just googling a dang thing and finding the plethora of FREE info to answer it all.... 

[Anthony Na]

S8 is designed to keep certain people financially dependent and financially illiterate. It’s easier to control them that way.

[Peter Dukaj]

What is Sec 8 paying in Detroit/Redford area? 

[Brian Kloft]

Like with most of RE, Section 8 can be hyper local. While there are lots of areas where the Section 8 won't pay enough to get market rent, I have had plenty of clients that had Section 8 paying more than what market rent was for their place. I know this was true because they brought me their houses to manage so I was collecting the rent and then later had to rent it out again. Personally I have a problem with Landlords collecting more than market rent from Sec 8, just like I have a problem with Sec 8 tenants that are abusing the system. Both of them are a waste of tax payer monies that could be better used to help other people that truly need the help. But just like any government program or other large system there is a lot of waste. 

As far as Tim's reasons for not being willing to take Sec 8 tenants, most of them I see as just excuses used to justify the position and not valid reasons. 1. They want to make sure that you aren't charging Sec 8 more than what market rent is on your property. This is a good thing for tax payers to prevent fraud. 2. government shutdown causes delay in rent payment and you want to charge a late fee? 4. never seen that one before, I will have to look, but in all my years doing it I have never had any request even remotely like this. 5. If government shutdown causes delay you can't evict while waiting. However is Sec 8 will no longer be paying then the tenant will become 100% responsible and you can evict for non payment. 6. Not a big deal, some states require this for any tenant period. ----- Personally I think you are being way over paranoid. Have you ever looked at any of your insurance policies in detail, or if you live in an HOA have your read it in detail? Lots of companies that you don't have a choice in changing the wording of the contract or a choice in going with someone else have things like that in their contracts. Obviously you are free to use them or not, however many states are now putting rules in place where you can not deny someone just because they are on Section 8 so you may not have the option in the future.

[Rereloluwa Fatunmbi]

Quote from @Steve K.:

I used to have S8 properties and for the most part I agree with your sentiment: it doesn't have to be as bad as the stigma around it might lead one to believe. I never had any issues waiting on paperwork or the bureaucracy side of it like I had been warned about. I actually never failed an inspection!

However I sold those properties, as when I looked at the numbers compared to my other properties in better locations, I realized I was making a lot more money on those other properties. Even though they had less pro-forma cashflow in the magic spreadsheet, they were actually more profitable overall. This is because of less vacancy/turnover, rents increased much faster, less tenant damage, less maintenance and repair costs, and most important of all MUCH higher appreciation due to being in more desirable areas that actually improved instead of staying stagnant like many S8 areas. 

Other than making less money overall, some of the other downsides of my S8 experience were the following:

1. It's a sad way to make money IME. A very high percentage of my tenants (in fact, almost all of them) were single mothers. Many of them had drug or alcohol issues. Many of them had abusive boyfriends who took advantage of them. 3 of them died in my units from drug overdoses. 1 drank herself to death. I dealt with a lot of domestic abuse situations involving children... some of my S8 tenants only had to pay $7 for their portion of rent every month, but I still felt bad taking that money from them. 

2. S8 tenants never have good credit, savings, or anything to lose if they trash your property (besides their voucher, not always enough to make them care in my experience). In my other properties with high-earning tenants, I can get a judgment and garnish their wages, threaten their pristine credit that they actually care about, go after their savings, etc. Not so with S8, I'm paying out of pocket even if the place is completely destroyed (happened to me a few times unfortunately, and not by people in the program but usually their friends or relatives). 

3. There is always a lot more people living in the property than the person in the program. First the approved tenant moves in: perfect applicant, single mom with one kid, no pets... soon her adult kids move in with their kids and then her ex moves in with his kids and their kid's kids and their pitbulls and mastiffs...  most of the problems I had were not with people actually in the program. You have less control for this reason, and the property gets way more beat up. You can screen all you want and evict all you want, but it's hard to control when they invite people in so it's unavoidable unless you live next door or something. Having that many people in the property puts a lot more wear and tear on it, even if the people give a crap (but many don't, in fact many are entitled with no respect or appreciation). I had to deal with a lot more issues than I've ever had in non-S8 rentals like extensive property damage and also bed bugs, roaches, drain lines completely clogged up by grease (I learned what sewer worms are, look it up), spray paint art on walls and food on ceilings, noise complaints, police at the property, removing dead bodies, etc.  

4. As mentioned above, S8 properties tend to be in bad locations. I reiterate this because I have made the lion's share of my money in real estate by investing in "up and coming" locations as they transition from borderline to popular parts of town. The problem with S8 buildings is they can hold an area back that would otherwise be in the "Path of Progress". If there are a lot of S8 buildings in an area, it'll never be nice. I've seen gentrification spread right up to a block of S8 buildings, and then go around that block leaving it right where it was and will probably always be (undesirable). 

Appreciation is where the real money is at IME, and S8 is an appreciation killer. Buying in areas with a lot of good jobs and desirability is the key to growing wealth from rapid appreciation. S8 renters simply don't have good jobs, or they wouldn't be on S8. People live there because they have no other options. Property values are usually flat for this reason, compared to better locations where more people actually choose to live. So S8 not longer fits my strategy personally. 

 Thanks for sharing the cons of S8. This provides the complete picture when read with the original posting. 

[Vadim F.]

@Bob Stevens keep crushing it! Anyone who says that S8 doesn't pay more in lower class areas has no idea what they are referring to. Also, why in the world would someone but higher end finishes in a D class area thinking they'll get higher rents? Cheap and functional is all it needs to be. Us S8 investors know that investing in lower class areas, come with higher risk. This is the exact reason why we go with S8, so we get guaranteed rent and not chasing it. The rehab are almost the same, yes the inspectors will usually ding some minor stuff that and usually you'd need to replace a few windows if they can't be repaired. In the end the process is the same as a cash paying tenant, except that inspections can take a bit of time unless you know people at CMHA, etc.

[Bob Stevens]

Quote from @Rereloluwa Fatunmbi:

Quote from @Steve K.:

I used to have S8 properties and for the most part I agree with your sentiment: it doesn't have to be as bad as the stigma around it might lead one to believe. I never had any issues waiting on paperwork or the bureaucracy side of it like I had been warned about. I actually never failed an inspection!

However I sold those properties, as when I looked at the numbers compared to my other properties in better locations, I realized I was making a lot more money on those other properties. Even though they had less pro-forma cashflow in the magic spreadsheet, they were actually more profitable overall. This is because of less vacancy/turnover, rents increased much faster, less tenant damage, less maintenance and repair costs, and most important of all MUCH higher appreciation due to being in more desirable areas that actually improved instead of staying stagnant like many S8 areas. 

Other than making less money overall, some of the other downsides of my S8 experience were the following:

1. It's a sad way to make money IME. A very high percentage of my tenants (in fact, almost all of them) were single mothers. Many of them had drug or alcohol issues. Many of them had abusive boyfriends who took advantage of them. 3 of them died in my units from drug overdoses. 1 drank herself to death. I dealt with a lot of domestic abuse situations involving children... some of my S8 tenants only had to pay $7 for their portion of rent every month, but I still felt bad taking that money from them. 

2. S8 tenants never have good credit, savings, or anything to lose if they trash your property (besides their voucher, not always enough to make them care in my experience). In my other properties with high-earning tenants, I can get a judgment and garnish their wages, threaten their pristine credit that they actually care about, go after their savings, etc. Not so with S8, I'm paying out of pocket even if the place is completely destroyed (happened to me a few times unfortunately, and not by people in the program but usually their friends or relatives). 

3. There is always a lot more people living in the property than the person in the program. First the approved tenant moves in: perfect applicant, single mom with one kid, no pets... soon her adult kids move in with their kids and then her ex moves in with his kids and their kid's kids and their pitbulls and mastiffs...  most of the problems I had were not with people actually in the program. You have less control for this reason, and the property gets way more beat up. You can screen all you want and evict all you want, but it's hard to control when they invite people in so it's unavoidable unless you live next door or something. Having that many people in the property puts a lot more wear and tear on it, even if the people give a crap (but many don't, in fact many are entitled with no respect or appreciation). I had to deal with a lot more issues than I've ever had in non-S8 rentals like extensive property damage and also bed bugs, roaches, drain lines completely clogged up by grease (I learned what sewer worms are, look it up), spray paint art on walls and food on ceilings, noise complaints, police at the property, removing dead bodies, etc.  

4. As mentioned above, S8 properties tend to be in bad locations. I reiterate this because I have made the lion's share of my money in real estate by investing in "up and coming" locations as they transition from borderline to popular parts of town. The problem with S8 buildings is they can hold an area back that would otherwise be in the "Path of Progress". If there are a lot of S8 buildings in an area, it'll never be nice. I've seen gentrification spread right up to a block of S8 buildings, and then go around that block leaving it right where it was and will probably always be (undesirable). 

Appreciation is where the real money is at IME, and S8 is an appreciation killer. Buying in areas with a lot of good jobs and desirability is the key to growing wealth from rapid appreciation. S8 renters simply don't have good jobs, or they wouldn't be on S8. People live there because they have no other options. Property values are usually flat for this reason, compared to better locations where more people actually choose to live. So S8 not longer fits my strategy personally. 

 Thanks for sharing the cons of S8. This provides the complete picture when read with the original posting. 

 I did not read the cons as IMO there are none, 10 years with 100s of tenants. FEW if any issues, , less issues with sec 8 vs cash 

[Bob Stevens]

Quote from @Vadim F.:

@Bob Stevens keep crushing it! Anyone who says that S8 doesn't pay more in lower class areas has no idea what they are referring to. Also, why in the world would someone but higher end finishes in a D class area thinking they'll get higher rents? Cheap and functional is all it needs to be. Us S8 investors know that investing in lower class areas, come with higher risk. This is the exact reason why we go with S8, so we get guaranteed rent and not chasing it. The rehab are almost the same, yes the inspectors will usually ding some minor stuff that and usually you'd need to replace a few windows if they can't be repaired. In the end the process is the same as a cash paying tenant, except that inspections can take a bit of time unless you know people at CMHA, etc.

 Hi, I have not seen where someone said they do not pay more than cash, if they did , well that person needs to get off the internet and learn the real world. HIGHER finishes, someone said that? again, they need to get off the internet, no clue what they are doingl ITS THE SAME EXACT way as renting to anyone, just more paperwork,

All the best 

[Vadim F.]

Quote from @Bob Stevens:

Quote from @Vadim F.:

@Bob Stevens keep crushing it! Anyone who says that S8 doesn't pay more in lower class areas has no idea what they are referring to. Also, why in the world would someone but higher end finishes in a D class area thinking they'll get higher rents? Cheap and functional is all it needs to be. Us S8 investors know that investing in lower class areas, come with higher risk. This is the exact reason why we go with S8, so we get guaranteed rent and not chasing it. The rehab are almost the same, yes the inspectors will usually ding some minor stuff that and usually you'd need to replace a few windows if they can't be repaired. In the end the process is the same as a cash paying tenant, except that inspections can take a bit of time unless you know people at CMHA, etc.

 Hi, I have not seen where someone said they do not pay more than cash, if they did , well that person needs to get off the internet and learn the real world. HIGHER finishes, someone said that? again, they need to get off the internet, no clue what they are doingl ITS THE SAME EXACT way as renting to anyone, just more paperwork,

All the best 

 There are people drinking tons of kool-aid from all these online gurus. Have no idea what they are doing. 

[Bob Stevens]

Quote from @Greg M.:

If S8 is so great, can someone explain to me why:

1) The government has to create laws that force landlords to accept it. 

2) The government has to pay shills to come to forums like these and promote it. And I'm not talking about Bob, I'm talking about the S8 experts that are all too willing to help others start accepting S8 and are "in contact" with the HA all the time. They pop up here every few months, never to be seen again.

3) Why aren't landlords tripping over each other to get these so-called wonderful tenants at these alleged higher than market rates?

 well they are, The amount of posts I see everywhere have increased substantially for those wanting to rent to sec 8 . I have been telling everyone for 12 years. SCREEN properly, thats all its about  

[Vadim F.]

The tenant process for S8 and cash paying is the same....you do the same exact background checks. The only difference is more paperwork and inspections.