Tenant test positive for lead paint on bath tub

Upstate New York, New York
General Landlording & Rental Properties
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Tenant test positive for lead paint on bath tub

Marci Stein
Rental Property Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2011 · 956 posts · 510 votes

Not sure how to proceed —

2 adult tenants. No children .
newly moved in and tested for lead on peeling paint on side of painted bathtub. Positive. 

From what I’ve read, I am required to remediate this if a child under 6, 

is living in the house - however, this is not the case .
anyone please advise how to proceed.
Am I responsible if an adult finds lead in paint? I’m in upstate NY ..  TY!

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Patricia Steiner
Real Estate Broker · Hyde Park Tampa, FL · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
2y

Geez...maybe we start here:  

1.Lead paint is expected with any building/structure constructed before 1978.  Landlords have an obligation in most states to provide a Lead Paint Disclosure (brochure) to tenants that basically states this fact. You don't need to test for it but if you have knowledge of the existence of lead paint, you are required to provide those reports/disclosures. (Where to get Lead Paint Brochure for free if you don't already have it:  https://www.epa.gov/lead/protect-your-family-lead-your-home-...

2. Peeling paint is a problem. If you have it, it needs to be remedied - whether it's lead or not. When it is not remedied, you   open yourself up to tenant issues like the one you're experiencing. But....  

3.  You're not required when no child is present to remediate it.  See the following (and there are tons more online):

https://www.justia.com/real-estate/landlord-tenant/informati...

Considering that adults do absorb 11% of lead paint (children have much higher risk) and you now know it is present, it is worth curing to preserve your property valuation and attract/retain quality tenants.  There are many inexpensive options that include having the tub sealed/reglazed.  Lead Paint poses a danger when it is deteriorating so sealing it cures the risk.  The other option is to replace the bathtub altogether.  

While you don't have a legal obligation to do anything (and hopefully you gave out the lead paint disclosures when you rented it), all a tenant has to do is claim their health has been negatively impacted to initiate a law suit against you for damages.  Those are also all over the internet...whether they prevail or not, it's an expensive avenue to go down.  

I recommend telling the tenants that you had no knowledge of the lead paint and that you appreciate them bringing it your attention. Share that while you are not required to cure it as no children are in the unit, you would like to do so by (whatever you choose). Schedule the work and give them the required notice of entry.  Take back control by acting - and just make this issue go away.  

Hope this helps...hope even more that this issue goes away for you soon.

Best...


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  • Patricia Steiner
    Real Estate Broker · Hyde Park Tampa, FL · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y

    Geez...maybe we start here:  

    1.Lead paint is expected with any building/structure constructed before 1978.  Landlords have an obligation in most states to provide a Lead Paint Disclosure (brochure) to tenants that basically states this fact. You don't need to test for it but if you have knowledge of the existence of lead paint, you are required to provide those reports/disclosures. (Where to get Lead Paint Brochure for free if you don't already have it:  https://www.epa.gov/lead/protect-your-family-lead-your-home-...

    2. Peeling paint is a problem. If you have it, it needs to be remedied - whether it's lead or not. When it is not remedied, you   open yourself up to tenant issues like the one you're experiencing. But....  

    3.  You're not required when no child is present to remediate it.  See the following (and there are tons more online):

    https://www.justia.com/real-estate/landlord-tenant/informati...

    Considering that adults do absorb 11% of lead paint (children have much higher risk) and you now know it is present, it is worth curing to preserve your property valuation and attract/retain quality tenants.  There are many inexpensive options that include having the tub sealed/reglazed.  Lead Paint poses a danger when it is deteriorating so sealing it cures the risk.  The other option is to replace the bathtub altogether.  

    While you don't have a legal obligation to do anything (and hopefully you gave out the lead paint disclosures when you rented it), all a tenant has to do is claim their health has been negatively impacted to initiate a law suit against you for damages.  Those are also all over the internet...whether they prevail or not, it's an expensive avenue to go down.  

    I recommend telling the tenants that you had no knowledge of the lead paint and that you appreciate them bringing it your attention. Share that while you are not required to cure it as no children are in the unit, you would like to do so by (whatever you choose). Schedule the work and give them the required notice of entry.  Take back control by acting - and just make this issue go away.  

    Hope this helps...hope even more that this issue goes away for you soon.

    Best...


    9Reply
  • Marci Stein
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2011 · 956 posts · 510 votes
    2y

    Thank you for this thorough response - 

    so you’re saying, although I am not required to fix the shipping lead paint on the bathtub I should do it ? It is  a very expensive fix (2k)

    0Reply
  • Scott Mac
    Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Marci Stein:

    Thank you for this thorough response - 

    so you’re saying, although I am not required to fix the shipping lead paint on the bathtub I should do it ? It is  a very expensive fix (2k)


    If it was the bathtub in your personal bathroom--how would you handle it?

    If it were mine I'd have it pulled (properly discarded) and replaced (probably with a shower and matching surround): https://www.homedepot.com/b/Bath-Showers-Shower-Walls-Surrounds/N-5yc1vZbzbs

    1Reply
  • Marci Stein
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2011 · 956 posts · 510 votes
    2y

    Scott, thanks for your reply —just wondering why would you replace a porcelain claw tub instead of repairing the paint where it is  chipsping?

    2Reply
  • Henry T.
    Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y

    Can it be encased? Frame around it? Sandblasted? Maybe paint over and stop the chipping with an epoxy type paint, or rustoleum? I don't know enough about your issue. You might tell your new geniuses not to eat the chips and they should be ok. You could also mention in passing conversation that you get 5 offers a week for the house, and sometimes think about selling.

    2Reply
  • Jonathan R McLaughlin
    Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y

    @Marci Stein no kids yet, what if she's pregnant? And she likely is or trying to be or they wouldn't be testing.

    Do NOT be penny wise/pound foolish here. Lead laws are no joke, especially since there is documentation of lead presence.

    Insulate yourself now and get rid of the thing.

    5Reply
  • Scott Mac
    Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Marci Stein:

    Scott, thanks for your reply —just wondering why would you replace a porcelain claw tub instead of repairing the paint where it is  chipsping?

     A burly gent with a saws all would make quick work of it if it were mine.

    I know these old timers make comfy bathtubs for those who like to soak--nice and deep-but the sides are tall, requiring a large step over and to me the antique look is not something I want to offer the market.

    A shower with a surround can be a relativity easy install and makes the unit from what I would consider a "Boutique" or (lower income) offering to a more mainstream modern offering.

    Personally I would not rent a unit with a claw tub for myself to live in.

    A shower with a spray wand attachment and a mixing valve setup is a modern offering.

    And for a unit that might appeal more to those with tikes in the house, a bathtub with a surround would be my choice.

    But of course if money is the issue another repainting might solve the problem, especially if you cannot raise the rent with a more modern offering.

    Are the current renters tub soakers who love this setup?

    Do you have a ready supply of tub soakers who love this setup to fill the unit on a turn.

    Is this a low income unit?

    Are there other similar units in a building that you own and replacing one means replacing 20 to modernize?

    These are just some of my random thoughts.

    Good Luck!

    2Reply
  • Marci Stein
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2011 · 956 posts · 510 votes
    2y

    These tenants love their big fat clawfoot tub, so I’ll fix it up and keep it - and I appreciate everybody’s feedback.

    Thank you!!

    4Reply
  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Marci Stein:

    Thank you for this thorough response - 

    so you’re saying, although I am not required to fix the shipping lead paint on the bathtub I should do it ? It is  a very expensive fix (2k)

    I am in a high cost market.  I can get a tub and short enclosure re-glazed at $500 and regular height at $600.   It does not last as long as original, but if tenant is not hard on it it should last a decade.  

    I would address the issue even if not legally required.  

    good luck
    4Reply
  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    2y

    Nation wide you are required to provide your tenant with a lead paint disclosure form if the house is built before 1978.

    I do not know of any states that require the remediation of lead paint if there are no children living in the house. That doesnt mean there isnt any, but none that I know of, and I own properties in some of the strictest lead paint states such as MA and MD, and neither require remediation for adults. 

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  • Carlos Ptriawan
    Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Marci Stein:

    Thank you for this thorough response - 

    so you’re saying, although I am not required to fix the shipping lead paint on the bathtub I should do it ? It is  a very expensive fix (2k)


     LOL 2k is very cheap for these kind of issue. Just fix it and don't think about it.

    2Reply
  • Alex Kreeger
    Member since 2019 · 63 posts · 60 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Marci Stein:

    Not sure how to proceed —

    2 adult tenants. No children .
    newly moved in and tested for lead on peeling paint on side of painted bathtub. Positive. 

    From what I’ve read, I am required to remediate this if a child under 6, 

    is living in the house - however, this is not the case .
    anyone please advise how to proceed.
    Am I responsible if an adult finds lead in paint? I’m in upstate NY ..  TY!


    Surprised this is even a question. You know of an issue. Fix it.  

    1Reply
  • Marci Stein
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2011 · 956 posts · 510 votes
    2y

    Incredibly unhelpful comment

    0Reply
  • Marci Stein
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2011 · 956 posts · 510 votes
    2y

    There are nuances to this situation, which make it unclear such as the LAW .
    There are no children under 6 living in the house.

    0Reply
  • Carlos Ptriawan
    Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Marci Stein:

    There are nuances to this situation, which make it unclear such as the LAW .
    There are no children under 6 living in the house.


    Apologize first.
    The other day, there's this question in BP, there's a tree  that's almost falling to the ground,
    tenant already giving me warning.

    Question is: who is going to pay if the tree is falling, tenant or landlord ? LOL 
    This is so obvious. 

    Your problem is actually because the cost is $2,000 ; so you want solution "how to fix lead issue for two hundred bucks only". It's not about Law :-)

    0Reply
  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    2y

    What I would do:

    1. Have it tested myself and not take their word for it, whether I got my own test or had someone do it.

    2. Assuming it does test positive, have someone come out and spray the tub to encapsulate it and tell the tenants not to eat the paint chips in the meantime.

    3. Kick these PITA tenants to the curb or give them a nice big fat rent increase when their lease is up just for being asshats knowing they were moving into an old place that probably had lead and using that leverage to make you have to redo the tub, which probably looked that way when they saw the unit and agreed to rent the unit. I try to make my places really nice and fix anything that needs fixing and keep them safe but I will never put up with tenant strong-arming; anyone that tries that with me can find a new place to live. 

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  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Marci Stein:

    There are nuances to this situation, which make it unclear such as the LAW .
    There are no children under 6 living in the house.


    You can fix it for cheaper. Have the tub reglazed. I've had them done for under $500. They look brand new, they have non-slip bottoms, and it will encapsulate the lead paint and make it 100% safe.

    Example: https://www.supremebathrefinishing.com/?gad=1&gclid=CjwK...

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  • Marci Stein
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2011 · 956 posts · 510 votes
    2y

    Carlos- first , you criticize my question -

    then you presume to know why I am looking for a solution and that i only pay $200

    you are Way out of line and I don’t 

    appreciate this. 

    1Reply
  • Marci Stein
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2011 · 956 posts · 510 votes
    2y

    Nathan - yes, that is exactly what I have decided to do. Thank you very much. Good to know you are in agreement.

    0Reply
  • Carlos Ptriawan
    Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Marci Stein:

    Carlos- first , you criticize my question -

    then you presume to know why I am looking for a solution and that i only pay $200

    you are Way out of line and I don’t 

    appreciate this. 


    I am just being very direct to you as it's very simple. The two hundred buck is literal example.
    On the thread you should just ask "how to fix my lead problem in much cheaper way".

    Some folks here in BP do not want to be a responsible landlord or donot know how to and some is using law as an excuse.

    It really does not matter if there's adult or kid or law prohibit this and that if there's health issue. It is LL responsibility to fix.

    Technical problem can't be solved using law, but solve it using technical approach. Your tenant actually do you a favour.

    0Reply
  • Marci Stein
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2011 · 956 posts · 510 votes
    2y

    It totally matters whether an adult or a child is living in the house. children chew on things that are not edible unlike adults.

    That is why the law clearly states it is not a health hazard, and does not need to be remediated, unless a young child is living there.

    0Reply
  • Jonathan R McLaughlin
    Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y

    @Marci Stein while you are right it may be a shortsighted approach. You won’t be able to have them move out if they bring a child under 6 into the apartment without risking a substantial claim of retaliation and then you have a documented lead hazard which requires full documented mitigation and sign off of liability from a licensed lead mitigation professional yada yada. 

    1Reply
  • Marci Stein
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2011 · 956 posts · 510 votes
    2y

    Jonathan this is very true which is why I am having the problem fixed

    0Reply
  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    2y

    I think you made the right decision, I would repeat what JD said-have it tested yourself first so that you know for sure. If the paint is chipping off, I'd still have it refinished.

    2Reply
  • Jim K.
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    2y

    @Marci Stein

    There are, surprisingly, people who have not shown a lack of mental clarity in the past commenting on here who don't seem to have a good idea of what's involved in removing and disposing a clawfoot tub in an old home in the Northeast, and this is probably up on a second or higher floor. Looking at you @Scott Macand @Jonathan R McLaughlin. You've both got to know better than this, and if you don't, I'd be happy to have that long, technical discussion elsewhere.

    The main reason why these things have survived in place for so long is the real cost of updating a ninety-year-old clawfoot tub with a modern alcove tub and tiled shower surround. It usually costs about as much in the end for a full bathroom remodel. Even finding the right guy to do it in upstate NY for a reasonable cost in any sort of timeframe that would work with tenants in place would be an adventure.

    I completely agree with @JD Martin here, Marci. Your PITA tenants decided to move into a house with a clawfoot tub and then immediately decided to test the peeling paint on it. Either they were too ignorant to know that it simply HAD to be lead paint, or they're trying to work the system. My money is on them trying to scam you here. Get them out. Spray the tub. Move on. If you want to remodel the bathroom, don't do it for them.

    3Reply
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