I'm finally a "mean landlord"

I'm finally a "mean landlord"

Dave PoeppelmeierBusiness Member
Realtor · Maumee, OH · Member since 2015 · 491 posts · 722 votes

This post is for the new and newer Investors out there. When we start out as Investors, most of us want to be the great landlord we never had: one that fixes everything quickly, who is super nice, and wants to make life supremely enjoyable for our residents. We want to make the world a better place! When we have 1, 2, 3 rentals, we can easily do that. But guess what happens as we continue to grow: the Law of Large Numbers starts to rear it's ugly head, for better and for worse.

As we continue to rent our houses and units out over time, we are going to be interacting with many new people. These people you will not be able to get to know as well, because you have 10 houses now and not 2. You have your screening procedures in place, but you let someone in that almost meets your criteria. They have a great story about getting back on their feet, they love the house, they want the school district, etc. You have now encountered the Professional Resident. The resident that know all of the rules of the leasing game, what you as an Owner can and can't do, and actively seek to be a pain in the rear. You are getting maintenance calls every week, some legitimate, some not, some they caused on purpose. Rent is late, they almost pay all of it, but it's not too much of a balance. Before you realize it, rent has stopped coming in, they are not responding to communication, and now you start the eviction process, which in places like CA and NY, is darn near impossible to get someone to leave. 

You ask yourself "what happened???" You realize that you were too nice. Next time, you're going to stick to your screening procedures! That goes well for a while, but then you buy another house with residents living there, and a week before closing they give their 30-day notice to vacate. No problem, they said they'll be out at the end of next month. The end of the month comes and one person has moved out, but the other needs a few more days to get their work to relocate them out of town. Sure, no problem, just pay the prorated rent when you move out and that will work out fine. The only problem, is now that resident has let his brother come stay with him for a few days, and now he thinks he's renting the place and won't leave. You now have a squatter! Guess what you get to do? Go through the eviction process because he knows you can't simply call the police for trespassing, he as stuff there! He's living there, has a key, and says see you in court. 

Yes, both of these situations happened to me, along with many others along the way. Most of us want to be generally nice to people, believe in the Golden Rule/Karma/Law of Attraction/etc. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there that don't play by those rules. There are people that will take advantage of any little thing they can get their hands on, including your benevolence. Looking back at all of the situations I've been involved in, it's because I deviated from solid rental business practices in the name of "being nice" and "trying to help someone out". 

Now, should we be the Landlords from Hell that are all over our residents for every little thing they seemingly do and assume everyone is out to get us? Of course not. That would be bad ju-ju for sure. We can (and should) be genuinely nice and polite, and provide good service as property owners. But we have to do so in the space of our lease and the law, and no further. Fortunately, I'm big enough now that I have Property Management to handle all of this, but if I were starting over or managing my portfolio for myself, I would be "mean". By that I mean operating to the letter of the lease all the time. If they are late with their rent, they are late with their rent and they pay the late fee. If I'm sure they (or their kids) did something to the property, they are liable. Or, if they are going to be able to pay rent on the 6th instead of the 5th, put everything IN WRITING via letter/email/text, and if they don't follow through, charge them the late fee. 

It's tempting and easy to let things slide and be the "nice guy/gal" to avoid conflict. Don't do it. If you can't do that: do NOT manage your own properties. You will pay more money getting taken advantage of than you're going to pay for a good property manager. There are hundreds of articles and threads on here about how to find a good PM so I won't bore you with that. 

Bottom line: This is YOUR business, and you need to look out for YOU first. Outside of your rent and maintenance of the property, your residents don't owe you anything, nor do you owe them anything beyond your owner responsibilities, But, if you do your job right, the right people will tell others about you, especially in small towns or markets like Student Housing. I hope this helps, and please drop other instances where you were "too nice" and how it turned out. Good luck!

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
4y

Good share, @Dave Poeppelmeier!

I don't have any big horror stories because I started out managing for others and always took it seriously (though I have made mistakes).

I do have a lot of horror stories. In fact, the majority of Landlords that I manage for were the kind of Landlords that thought their generosity towards Tenants would result in well-behaved, long-term tenants. It almost never works out. I don't have hard numbers, but it's certainly higher than 80%. Examples:

  • My own father-in-law believed Tenants would take better care of his property and pay on time if he treated them generously. He kept rent below market rates, gave his tenants the month of December for free as a Christmas present, never charged late fees, and would accept every sob story sold to him. He had five properties when he passed away and I took over management. Between those five, four of the tenants were evicted after my father-in-law had lost about $40,000 over the past two years.
  • Landlord asked for help with a non-paying renter. I immediately recognized the tenant's name because we had rejected their application the year before. They paid one month of rent, skipped a month, then negotiated paying 50% for a year with the promise of catching up after that. They stopped paying any rent after a few more months. The property as so trashed that I called Family Services and the children were removed immediately. Floating $hit in four inches of sewage and they had built a path with boards so the kids could get to their beds. That's not an exaggeration. Between unpaid rent/utilities and damages to the home, the Landlord lost $30,000 in one year. I later took over management of four more properties for her and she had lost tens of thousands on each one.
  • Little old lady calls because she thinks her renter is "not being honest" about the situation. Four months of not paying rent or utilities. Every time the Landlord complains, Tenant writes a long letter explaining all her problems and asking for a little more time because she "found a new job that starts tomorrow". A quick review of the Tenants facebook page shows that her only "job" is selling marijuana, smoking it, and asking people to party with her. $12,000 in losses.

I have dozens of these stories. No good deed goes unpunished. If you operate with the belief that people are generally good and they will appreciate generosity, you will fail in this business. It's why grocers and gas stations do not let people keep a tab.

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    4y
    my favorite do good for tenant was this:

    my PM calls  harsh winter tenant just had baby heat is double what it used to be ( gas bill) they cant afford it and rent..  please give rent abatement for 3 months then they will pay the balance off each month for the remainder of their lease been good tenants up to then.. Me of course sure No problem .. well 3 months comes and goes and they simply moved out gone into the wind LOL took me for 3 months rent.. 
  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    4y

    Terrible attitude. You are running a business. As you said "YOUR business." Businesses have clients and customers. Regardless of what business you are in, whether its providing a housing product, providing professional services, selling a cell phone, your attitude should not be to "and you need to look out for YOU first.". 

    You really just articulated the difference between any crappy business versus those that look to create a great experience for their clients. The former generally fail or fail to thrive, while the later become very successful businesses.  Regardless of what your product or service is...make sure your customers and clients love that product and the customer service you give them. 

  • Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    4y

    @Dave Poeppelmeier

    Gotta agree with Russell on this one. It's pretty much a no-brainer.

    "Look after the customer, and the business will take care of itself." Ray Kroc

  • Dave PoeppelmeierBusiness Member
    OP
    Realtor · Maumee, OH · Member since 2015 · 491 posts · 722 votes
    4y

    @Russell Brazil I'm not saying be a jerk, and of course you want to fix things quicky and give good quality service. I have/had great relationships with my residents for the most part, but I got burned, expensively, several times. The intent of the post is to warn people like me, who usually go out of my way to help others, you can't do that as a property owner sometimes. If you're going to do that, yes it's going to work out sometimes, but other times you're going to get taken to the cleaners by people. And I personally have gotten taken to the cleaners one too many times now.

    Keller Williams Citywide | Dave Poeppelmeier534 Reviews
  • Drew SygitBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    4y

    All, 

    "and you need to look out for YOU first." @Russell Brazil

    "Look after the customer, and the business will take care of itself." Ray Kroc  @Jim K.

    In our opinion, the two above statements are NOT mutually exclusive!

    You can look out for yourself & your business, by taking care of the customer:)

    To @Dave Poeppelmeier point though, you can't let customers ruin your business. 

    You have to set boundaries from day one with tenants, be a LITTLE flexible when "life happens", but run your business like a business, not a charity.



  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y

    @Dave Poeppelmeier Thanks for posting! This should be a sticky (if we had stickys).....We must have 5 posts every week from some idealistic newbie who is worried about ethics, and the horrible real estate business that preys on the poor tenants. LMAO. If they could read posts like yours, it might help them get off on the right track.

  • Investor · Rochester, NY · Member since 2016 · 576 posts · 358 votes
    4y

    I'm 'mean' during the screening process. I nicely tell about a dozen nice, worthy, wonderful people that they have not been selected as my next tenant. 

    After that I'm nice. "Nice" does not mean, 'get taken advantage of,' 'believe every lie a tenant tells me,' 'let someone live in my house without paying rent,' etc. 

    I want to be that great landlord. I won't let the world defeat my idealism.

    @Dave Poeppelmeier , thanks for the thought provoking post! Keep them coming!

    I'm currently reading "Know what you're For" by Jeff Henderson. I recommend it.

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    4y

    Good share, @Dave Poeppelmeier!

    I don't have any big horror stories because I started out managing for others and always took it seriously (though I have made mistakes).

    I do have a lot of horror stories. In fact, the majority of Landlords that I manage for were the kind of Landlords that thought their generosity towards Tenants would result in well-behaved, long-term tenants. It almost never works out. I don't have hard numbers, but it's certainly higher than 80%. Examples:

    • My own father-in-law believed Tenants would take better care of his property and pay on time if he treated them generously. He kept rent below market rates, gave his tenants the month of December for free as a Christmas present, never charged late fees, and would accept every sob story sold to him. He had five properties when he passed away and I took over management. Between those five, four of the tenants were evicted after my father-in-law had lost about $40,000 over the past two years.
    • Landlord asked for help with a non-paying renter. I immediately recognized the tenant's name because we had rejected their application the year before. They paid one month of rent, skipped a month, then negotiated paying 50% for a year with the promise of catching up after that. They stopped paying any rent after a few more months. The property as so trashed that I called Family Services and the children were removed immediately. Floating $hit in four inches of sewage and they had built a path with boards so the kids could get to their beds. That's not an exaggeration. Between unpaid rent/utilities and damages to the home, the Landlord lost $30,000 in one year. I later took over management of four more properties for her and she had lost tens of thousands on each one.
    • Little old lady calls because she thinks her renter is "not being honest" about the situation. Four months of not paying rent or utilities. Every time the Landlord complains, Tenant writes a long letter explaining all her problems and asking for a little more time because she "found a new job that starts tomorrow". A quick review of the Tenants facebook page shows that her only "job" is selling marijuana, smoking it, and asking people to party with her. $12,000 in losses.

    I have dozens of these stories. No good deed goes unpunished. If you operate with the belief that people are generally good and they will appreciate generosity, you will fail in this business. It's why grocers and gas stations do not let people keep a tab.

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y

    @Nathan Gesner is right of course.

    Although there are certainly more good people than bad out there as tenants, it's the bad ones that will cost you tens of thousands. For some landlords that would mean the end of their business.

  • Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    @Dave Poeppelmeier,

    No good deed ever goes unpunished-- especially in real estate rentals!   I think it's a lesson every landlord needs to learn, first hand.         Long term landlords are salty for a reason, and that reason is experience.

    I have lots of stories of being burned, but I think my favorite last year was when we put a brand new roof/siding/windows and  this unit was the only one with a deck, super cute renovated little duplex-- was rented to a single mom, but of course it wasn't just her-- it came with her crazy boyfriend.   After we put like $15K into the duplex in improvements, they complain that a nearby tree branch fell on their car (not our tree), so I told them to call their car insurance or renters insurance.    They then tell me the car is flooded (there was no flood), and we should replace their car.    Obviously they didn't have insurance and wanted to get us to pay for a new car for them.   The following weekend, we see a giant rock you could sit on, approximately 2 ft from our duplex, with about 8-10 broken beer bottles next to it and a sign taped to the brand new siding "This is the anger rock, slumlord caused flood waters  and my car is destroyed.  Please break a bottle on the anger rock in remembrance of a well maintained audi"-- you can't make this up!!!!   We immediately served them their 30-day notice of non-renewal,  increased rent and have a wonderful tenant in there now! 

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y

    @Linda S. Good one.....we should start a thread about bad tenants, it could turn into a great mini-series... :-)

    I could throw in the house with the 'lesbian initiation room', but this is a family show......ya can't make this stuff up.......

  • Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    @Bruce Woodruff,

    We really should...   gosh it'd be fascinating!  I really don't think people would believe what the reality is!   

      I don't know what  a ' lesbian initiation room' room entails,   I'm sure there was plenty of logic in coming up with that term though.. but I do know we have done maintenance calls  for a young couple  and saw  multiple strap- ons!    #TMI

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:

    Terrible attitude. You are running a business. As you said "YOUR business." Businesses have clients and customers. Regardless of what business you are in, whether its providing a housing product, providing professional services, selling a cell phone, your attitude should not be to "and you need to look out for YOU first.". 

    You really just articulated the difference between any crappy business versus those that look to create a great experience for their clients. The former generally fail or fail to thrive, while the later become very successful businesses.  Regardless of what your product or service is...make sure your customers and clients love that product and the customer service you give them. 

    some say customer first  client always right etc etc..  probably some happy median there in the landlord bizz..

    if your dealing with low end rentals a lot of section 8 etc where your tenants can be trying I can see where they wear you down and you get cranky..  

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    Not in this business! Too much on the line because we are, as landlords, providing a multi hundred thousand dollar asset for people to use.

    I would go so far as to say the client does not come first, the landlord is always right. (I'm assuming a good decent landlord of course)

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Linda S.:

    @Bruce Woodruff,

    We really should...   gosh it'd be fascinating!  I really don't think people would believe what the reality is!   

      I don't know what  a ' lesbian initiation room' room entails,   I'm sure there was plenty of logic in coming up with that term though.. but I do know we have done maintenance calls  for a young couple  and saw  multiple strap- ons!    #TMI

     Ahaha...put the two together and you have a party...... :-)

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