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Updated 2 months ago, 09/14/2024
Third floor fire egress
I have a 4 unit, there are some bedrooms on the third floor that don't quite meet egress requirements because it's a 22' drop from the window sill instead of the maximum 20'
I've been thinking of solutions and came up with something that I think might just work. An egress roof window would get you into the roof which could get you over to the second floor stairs, I'd have to add a few more stairs but that would be easy.
The main question is the roof pitch, can any amount of roof pitch be part of egress? I think it's about a 2/5 pitch. I know ultimately it's up to the town / marshal
generally a roof doesn't count as egress. Is it possible to lower the window to the floor and install a tempered window? I assume adding an exterior set of stairs is out of the question? Adding one across the roof so the roof itself isn't egress or asking if you can add railings to the roof and considering it a ramp?
Thank you for the input, I will measure the distance from the window sill to the third floor carpet, it's pretty low, let me see if I can attach pictures. If I can make it just under 20' by bringing the window all the way to the floor that would be great.
So the thing about the roof is that it continues down such that it's much lower to the ground than the third floor windows.
On the left hand side of the house, can you make a walkway over the back roof and have steps that come down the back and wrap the corner onto the 2nd floor egress?
Originally posted by @Bryan Devitt:
On the left hand side of the house, can you make a walkway over the back roof and have steps that come down the back and wrap the corner onto the 2nd floor egress?
That's kind of what I was thinking, but I wonder what they'd want for a "walkway" non skid coating would be easy but if they want all railings to code all Along the whole roof then I'll probably be better off doing metal fire escapes on the side windows.
@Eric Mcginn
I’ve had this same problem at my first three family. Your best advice would be to ask the fire Marshall directly, mine was very resourceful in helping me get my building to code.
The fire codes are obviously different in our states but if I were to build a fire escape coming off the third floor It would need to extend 10 feet past those windows before descending if those windows aren’t fire rated. I’ve found a much cheaper option to be taking the existing stairwell inside the house and fire eating it instead. Double layer sheet rock, egress lighting and fire rated doors.
Good Luck
Interesting, making the stairs fire rated...
Unfortunately the fire marshal hasn't been especially responsive.
I sent him a question about installing sprinklers in the whole house over a week ago. I've since learned it will be $40k for sprinklers so have changed directions but I still haven't heard back from him.
Originally posted by @Ryan Tessier:
@Eric Mcginn
I’ve had this same problem at my first three family. Your best advice would be to ask the fire Marshall directly, mine was very resourceful in helping me get my building to code.
The fire codes are obviously different in our states but if I were to build a fire escape coming off the third floor It would need to extend 10 feet past those windows before descending if those windows aren’t fire rated. I’ve found a much cheaper option to be taking the existing stairwell inside the house and fire eating it instead. Double layer sheet rock, egress lighting and fire rated doors.
@Eric Mcginn
According to my Fire Marshall, and this may differ depending on your state and municipality, if the building is three stories or less you only need one fire rated means of egress. Doesn’t make much sense to me or any of the contractors I work with but it’s coming straight from the horses mouth.
Interesting, so I would still need a secondary egress somehow though.
I have never heard of a loophole with 1 egress being fire rated and not needing a second. National code requires 2 means of egress, so that would have to be a state addendum that overrides the national code. To me it doesn't make sense but when it comes to codes and locally specific laws, there are lots that surprise me.
I wonder what would be involved with putting a walkway on that roof. Ideally I could install a caged ladder from the 3rd floor window but none of this crap is clear. It's a big old cluster F of confusion. If they really wanted to save lives they'd let me just install a permanent ladder. I mean it's only 2' from being ok. Oy, I have to remember to measure the interior sill height, from the pictures it looks like less than 2' probably 23" lol
Did I mention I'm considering installing a 30" deck under the window to make it less than 20'.
But I would still have to deal with the other side.
Talk to the building inspector, they're the ones who handle egress for us and they are the ones who set the standard on what is a safe means of egress. The fire dept just makes sure there are 2 and smoke detectors
Quote from @Eric Mcginn:
I wonder what would be involved with putting a walkway on that roof. Ideally I could install a caged ladder from the 3rd floor window but none of this crap is clear. It's a big old cluster F of confusion. If they really wanted to save lives they'd let me just install a permanent ladder. I mean it's only 2' from being ok. Oy, I have to remember to measure the interior sill height, from the pictures it looks like less than 2' probably 23" lol
Did I mention I'm considering installing a 30" deck under the window to make it less than 20'.
But I would still have to deal with the other side.
So I’ve since blocked off the third floor on one side and rented it as a 1 BR for now.
but when the other side leaves eventually I’m starting to lean towards raising the ground grade 28” so that the total drop is less than 20’
and then I’ll knock down some walls and make the whole 3rd floor attached only to that last unit so that the whole area can use the stairs and that window as second egress.
I will run it by the fire marshal before doing it but I don’t see any reason why that wouldn’t solve the problem. It will probably be a really cool space up there all opened up!
