confused about depreciation

confused about depreciation

Palo Alto, CA · Member since 2014 · 104 posts · 14 votes

For example: you buy a rental property for $100k.

$40k attributable to land and $60k to building.
You sell it 5 years later for $150k.
You'll need to take $2,182/year for depreciation (see MARCS 27.5y table), so that's $10,908 in 5 years.
Also, let's say you accumulated $5k in passive activity loss carryover. That may include depreciation, mortgage interest, repairs, etc accumulated over the years.

1. Figure out your cost basis. That'll be your improvements (none in this case) + initial cost ($100k) - depreciation (allowed or allowable, $10,908) = $89,092. If you forgot to take full depreciation, too bad, you have to subtract "allowable" depreciation here.

2. Your gain = sales price - cost basis = $150k - $89,092 = $60,908

3. You can reduce your gain by your passive activity losses, subject to some limitations: $60,908 - $5k = $56,908. This is what you pay tax on.

Now assume you were not able to write of the $10,908 because you were cash flow negative all these 5 years. In this case

1. Your cost basis = $89,902+$10,908 because $10,908 is carry forward loss.

Now say you never sell the property, then this accumulated depreciation starts to help you lower the taxes as and when you start becoming cash flow positive. so for instance in year 20 if you were supposed to pay tax, the carry forward loss due to accumulated depreciation from all these previous years will lower your taxes to zero.

Does the above seem generally correct? Or is it missing some important points or ordering? Is there a graph which illustrates this somewhere - something which shows that if you sell house in year 5 vs year 10 vs pass it on to heirs what happens to taxes.

Thanks so much

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  • Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    "something which shows that if you sell house in year 5 vs year 10 vs pass it on to heirs what happens to taxes."

    Investigate a Living Trust: When all trustees demise, the property flows to the beneficiaries and if properly handled, they inherit tax free and the current FMV.

    Selling at 5yr vs 10yr is the trade-off decision for Depreciation Recapture, which means you get to pay for all the depreciation during your ownership.  The longer you hold, the greater the impact on your taxes.

  • Investor · Pawleys Island, SC · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 837 votes
    10y

    @Roy Mitle,

    The tax treatment is a little easier than your example.  

    Let's say you purchased a property for $100K and placed it in service as a rental for five full years.  During your five year holding period, you took $10K in allowed depreciation. Your book value at the beginning of the sixth year is $90K ($100K - $10K).  Net passive loss carried forward at the beginning of year six is $10K.

    Case 1.  You sell the property for $150K.  You have capital gains of $60K ($150K - $90K).  Of this amount, $50K is capital gain due to appreciation, and $10K is capital gain due to unrecaptured depreciation.  Le't say you are in the 25% tax bracket.  Your capital gain tax on the sale profit will be 20% of the capital gain due to appreciation plus 25% of the capital gain due to unrecaptured depreciation, for a total of $12.5K.   Net passive losses carried forward for this property are added to net passive loss for the year of the sale and are included in the net passive loss allowance and taken as an offset to W2 income on line 17 (1040) even if the suspended losses make the total passive loss exceed the $25K cap on the net passive loss allowance. 

    Case 2.  You sell the property for $95K.  You have a capital gain of $5K due to depreciation but no gain due to appreciation.  Your capital gains tax will be 25% of the depreciation taken that did not really happen ($5K) for a tax bill of $1250.  As in Case 1, the suspended loss carry forward is claimed on line 17 (1040) for the year of sale without regard to the $25K cap on the net passive loss allowance.

    Case 3.  You sell the property for $85K.  You have a net capital loss of $5K.  There is no unrecaptured depreciation to be taxed.  You use the capital loss to offset $5K in capital gain from the sale of other capital assets on Schedule D.  If you still have a net capital loss on Schedule D, then a maximum of $3K in capital loss migrates from Schedule D to line 13 (1040) where it offsets other ordinary income.  The capital loss that exceeds $3K is carried forward to next year where it can be used to offset capital gain on the sale of other capital assets.  As in Case 1 and Case 2, the suspended losses carried forward are included in the net passive loss claimed on line 17 (1040) and offset other ordinary income.

    Case 4.  You don't sell the property, but continue to hold it for rental income.  Your tax basis (book value)  at the beginning of year 6 is still ($90K).  Prior year suspended losses are carried forward (forever) until they can be used to offset rental income or the property is sold.  Suspended losses are never used to adjust the tax basis in the property if the property is never sold.

  • Palo Alto, CA · Member since 2014 · 104 posts · 14 votes
    10y

    Thanks so much Dave. Very much appreciated.

    So this is a good deal. Say you are in the 39% bracket. This means the 10k (passive loss) goes against your net income so you save the 39% taxes.

    However you only pay 25% on the 10k (recaptured deduction). 

    So effectively you come ahead by 14% of 10k. is that right?

    And if you never sell then the passive losses will just offset your income.

    What happens in 1031 exchange. I presume it'll be like you never sold as well.

  • Investor · Panama City, FL · Member since 2015 · 378 posts · 183 votes
    10y

    remember passive activity loss can only be taken against other passive income so if you hold it forever and it becomes profitable past your current year depreciation you can take the a portion of your carryover loss to bring you to zero passive income.  To confuse things even more if you actively and materially participate,  you can write off some of your passive income against ordinary within certain income limitations and the alternative minimum income tax.  And to complicate things even more if you qualify as a real estate professional your passive loss becomes ordinary income loss ending at it against your ordinary income. All right good tax professional in your area, 

  • Investor · Panama City, FL · Member since 2015 · 378 posts · 183 votes
    10y

    hire a good tax professional in your area, not one of those franchises someone with some letters behind their name and owns some real estate of themselves

  • Developer · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y
    Roy Mitle If you're in the 39% tax bracket, you're not going to be able to deduct those passive losses - that phases out and disappears once your income is >$150k.
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