Why do we need Bird Dogs?

Question

It seems that some feel that Bird Dogs are bogus. Much of the negative talk could also be said about realtors. For that matter, many people outside of our world feel similarly about investors in general.

My experience has taught me that there seems to be more crooks out there operating as investors than there are legitimate ones. What some forget is that realtors are generally for the home buying public and that wholesalers and bird dogs are the "realtors" for the investment world. Before the crisis,
roles were much more clearly defined. Perhaps bird dogs might not be appearing as realtors had the realtors stayed out of wholesaling. Perhaps we might not need bird dogs IF THE @#%%^ REALTORS WOULD TAKE THEIR !@#$% HEADS OUT OF THEIR #%$%^! BLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP!

(Yeah, I hate realtors---in general)

Furthermore, it is the perfect way to begin investing if you have no money. I'm not going too much into the pro-dog arguments thanks to the ones in this forum who have defended this role in the investing community. They are truly dead on right.
If the paperwork and the relationship is properly arranged and defined, then there is no legal issue.

Also, how "high and mighty" some are to berate those who do not have what you have. Or do you have? The emporer hates being told he's naked. Some investors either are too small or too big to do the things bird dogs can do. There are so many properties and so little time. Who among us is so presumptuous to decide someone's worth? Some of us are professional and provide a valuable service to the investment community.

I had an investor contact me today and he shared with me how "bad apples" in the past soured his opinion of 'dogs, but that my marketing made me sound credible and worthwhile. If you do not like or understand bird dogs, perhaps you haven't found one that is worthwhile. Again, you know I have trouble often getting deals because so many "investors" have given us all a bad name. Truth is, all of us who are legit are all necessary cogs in the machine, but ultimately: YOU HAVE NOT CALLED ON
THE BIRD DAWG! ---GO DAWGS! :D

Eric Medemar · Answer

Here's what I tell my students both bird dogs and wholesalers alike: Bird dogging is cool if you want to learn your market, get you feet wet, and basically are scared $hitless at the thought of any risk....Bird dogging is also great because it makes for the perfect transition into wholesaling because you can take your relationships and move them from bird dog relationships to wholesaling relationships.... Having said all that....Wholesaling is virtually the exact same thing, except you make A TON more money on every deal. Wholesaling when done correctly is NO RISK just like bird dogging....Except instead of a $500-$1000 fee your getting $5,000-$100,000 per deal (one of my clients made $150,000 on one wholesale deal)..... Basically the only Financial costs between the two is that with bird dogging you don't need deposit money and with wholesaling you do.....In many cases you don't even need deposit money to wholesale either. Most of the bird dogs I have trained typically do 1-3 deals before going..."Hey, this sucks...I want to make big money" then they go into wholesaling.... That's why finding people who make big money bird dogging is next to impossible....The moment they get good...they move onto wholesaling....They'd be stupid not to..... Onto the subject of Realtors...I am a Realtor, and my opinion of many Realtors is LOOOOOOOOW! Up until recently becoming a Realtor or a Loan officer was the career choice for anyone who lost a job....The thought was "Oh crap, I got laid off from the factory....Why not start selling real estate, I heard of dude that makes lots of money doing that"..... It's no wonder that many Realtors are useless... Yes they are licensed, yes they are supposed to go by a standard of ethics and I truly believe that most Realtors don't have any bad intentions.... The problem is in what I call "Unconscious Incompetence" meaning they "Don't know, what they don't know"....Sure they don't intend to do any harm....but using a misinformed realtor can be one of the most expensive mistakes you will ever make..And to make things worse...They think they know alot..and they truly believe that they do...Making them even more dangerous... Thats my two cents.

Rachel H. · Answer

For me, I've had the most success working with people who are in the business - i.e. contractors, property managers, maintenance people, etc. These people send me "leads" (not deals) - I don't make it complicated. I don't get into #s on a home and/or what makes a deal. Usually, I just tell them what I do and that I'm interested in talking to people who have a home they really need to sell fast - that's it. It's not their job to analyze or think of ways to make a deal work for me - that's my job. The leads come in and then I figure out if and how I can work it into a deal. Yes, there are people out there who market themselves as bird dogs and/or wholesalers who go out and look for deals for investors - I have received those calls. Most times, it hasn't really met my criteria and/or not what I'm looking for. I've even tried to train some people in the past on how to look for deals - it just hasn't worked out. I would say they are out there - just rare to find the good ones. Since I started out bird dogging and wholesaling, I know how to find deals and know what works/doesen't work for me - it's a very important skill to learn. It is a good way to learn the business and the market, and build up cash. So, I've stuck with what works. Though, I am always open to networking and open to looking at leads that come my way through bird dogs and/or wholesalers. Hope that helps!

Michael Rossi · Answer

YES! If someone calls me with a GREAT DEAL (less than 50% market value), then I go look at it NOW and sign a contract with them on the spot. I don't quite understand your comment. If you're a full time real estate agent, you're not tied to a desk or set schedule. You certainly should be able to go look at a deal if it sounds like a great deal. I've never failed to close on a deal in the 6 years I've been in business. When I sign the contract (usually with no contingencies (other than free title, etc), I close on it! To do otherwise would DESTROY my credibility. So, there are at least two of us!!! Mike

Karen Parker · Answer

Chrisy, As a wholesaler, I have both bought and sold properties in less than 4 hours. Some of these were out of state. In the 20th century, we use the internet. We have access to all sorts of information and services. I've posted a property online and had a buyer from another state call an inspector who went over to look at it and within an hour had faxed me a contract on it. As a bird dogger and wholesaler, there are many reasons why a deal may fall through that are beyond our control. The most prominent today being that the lender pulls the funding at the last minute, If all of your deals have closed, I would say you are either lucky enough to be in a hot market area of the US or are very selective about who you are working with from the starting line. As a bird dogger, I am not going through the process to check credit. That is the lenders responsibility. And even if I did its a waste of time. I've see people with 750 credit scores at the closing table have their funding pulled because the lender got a wild hair up their butt about something.

Chrisy Roberts-Smith · Answer

Thank you Jim for the apology, it is very much appreciated%2

Chrisy Roberts-Smith · Answer

Thank you Jim for the apology, it is very much appreciated! I don't hold grudges long, so your good with me :) & if you have any good deals, please let me know. I would be happy to see if we can work together. Now as far as do investors need Bird doggers? I think that bird doggers can be a good asset to have "on your team". As long as you have a good one that knows what they are doing & are not throughing their "lead" out to everyone under the sun. In the past I have had bird doggers who have emailed or called me with a deal they just found & then within hours of me telling them I/my investor were interested, am told "sorry, someone else snatched up the deal". I find this very frustrating. Are there really investors out there that see or get told about a deal & then within a few hours have the deal under contract already? How do they have the time to perform their due delligences? I work 12-15 hrs per days 7 days a week & been doing this for 10 years & I can't do it. If I am going to present a deal to my investor, I make sure all the numbers work before I even present the deal & tell them the deal is "good to go". Question for all you bird doggers, wholesalers & investors out there......how many of these deals do you actually CLOSE on, just a percentage is what I am looking for? I am curious, because I have talked with a lot of agents, bird doggers, wholesalers & investors who always seem to have deals going, but then when I talk to them next & ask how the deal worked out for them, they tell me "oh, that deal didn't pan out". WHY???? If you had all of your ducks in a row from the gate, why didn't you make it to the finish line? EVERY single one of my deals that is started, CLOSES for the entire past 10 years. I can't possiblly be the only one out there....can I? LOL Chrisy

Karen Parker · Answer

I think this is way too cut and dry. I have been in this business several years so I'm by no means a newbie. I started out as a wholesaler with cash and credit but with the market the way it is in Florida, I can make more money Bird Dogging. I know other investors in the same situation. This is by choice, not by necessity. I had one bad deal that threw my credit in dumpster a few years back so the banks think I have the plague but I still have accessible cash and quite frankly prefer creative financing and private money to the banks to close on deals. Its simply less hassle and runs my blood pressure up less. But why would I want involve myself so deeply in properties that could drop thousands of dollars in value before I even can close on them and find a buyer?

Corey Demuth · Answer

I can tell you right now, most people out there trying to be wholesalers don't fit that description you are way too generous. I would say 75% or more DO NOT get any love from the banks, DO NOT have much cash to work with, have mediocre credit, and DO NOT have a team of professionals. It seems like most "wholesalers" who are successful move on to other strategies once they close a few deals wholesaling and start to make those connections. After you get a bit of capital and figure out what you're doing, it seems to make more sense to buy and resell than to give the lion's share of profits away to an investor.

Corey Demuth · Answer

some people can just exist as bird dogs. not everyone has the brains or ambition or drive or money or a whole lot of other things, to invest in real estate. but just about everyone could use a little extra cash. the postman, trash man, dominos delivery kid, plumber, or any of 1000 others who constantly travel around various neighborhoods, may be able to tip you off to areas and/or houses of interest. after the first time one of those "tips" leads to them suddenly finding an envelope of cash in their hands, well, they'll certainly put extra effort into trying to happen across more properties like that for you. also some people are bums and just don't work much (college students included) and they kind of "hang around" a lot. so in their travels from one friend's house to another (and these d bags don't have cars so they walk around a lot) they may come across something you can work with and let you know. i spun my wheels a bit at first trying to find deals, but after this gem dawned on me, i talked to a few stoner idiots that i know who fit this category perfectly, and the next thing you know i'm getting text after text, along the lines of "hey bro there's a house up by jimmy's crib with mad busted windows and a dryer sitting out front come check it lataz" plus these type will generally know the locals and thus it's easy to get them to obtain contact info for the neighbors to the house in question, so you can get in touch with them quickly.

Jon Holdman · Answer

I suspect there aren't any hard and fast definitions for either "bird dog" or "wholesaler". I would consider a wholesaler someone who actually has a property under contract or actually owns it. They're looking to make 5-10% of the value of the deal as a fee for passing it on. A bird dog, on the other hand, does not have a contract. They know something about a property, and have passed the info onto an investor to actually do the deal. They're looking to make a few hundred on the deal. I'm on several wholesaler's mailing lists, and get probably 10 deals a week. I do have a look at them, and once in a while go actually look at the property. If either a wholesaler or a bird dog brought me a deal that worked for me, I would happily pay their fee.