Streamlining retiring from day job at 40.

Streamlining retiring from day job at 40.

Investor · Cedar Rapids, IA · Member since 2014 · 71 posts · 38 votes

I've been investing in the Cedar Rapids, IA area for about 8 years now but only really stepped up my game 4 years ago.  After the addition of a child to our family during an almost year layoff I realized I needed to kick start my investing.  My wife read me Rich Dad Poor Dad while I drove us on vacation one year and my plan began to take shape.

These last 4 years I've been working full time days and then spending nights and weekends buying, rehabbing, and renting out houses.  I'm pleased to say we just put our 20th one under contract.  My plan has always been buy and hold but I have sold several between tenancies.

Now that I've hit 20 SFH I'm starting to wonder where to go with my investing next. Part of me wants to take a well deserved rest and get all the rehabs done, get the houses rented and then just cash flow on the side. Then sometimes I feel like I should continue to buy as long as there are deals present.

Sunday mornings I usually wake early and like to watch Dave Ramseys podcasts on Youtube.  I hear him talking about the debt snowball and how he usually recommends people pay off there smallest debts first then use that extra money to pay the next off and on and on.  While I agree that works with some I'm looking at a different approach.  If I am working full time and have all the houses rented, I'm planning on using 70 percent of rent profits on mortgage principal reduction on one single property every month.  The other 30 percent would be for an emergency fund.  So the newest loan would have the excess money on it the first month, then I would just go down the line every month paying the excess off only one mortgage each month.  That way by the time I'm ready to retire in 6 years all of the loans should be quite lean with most of the payments going to principal each month.

It makes more sense to me to do it this way but I know everyone has different opinions.  Does this plan make any sense?

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Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
11y

@Andrew D.,

Something to consider about Cramer, Dave Ramsey, Suze Orman, etc.:

They are speaking to "consumers" more than to entrepreneurs. That is, people who only understand working for money, not necessarily having money work for them.

My financial mentors teach putting equity to work producing income (arbitrage) instead of letting "dead" equity just sit and ebb/flow with the economic tide.

Just wanted to present another viewpoint.

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  • Investor · Cedar Rapids, IA · Member since 2013 · 494 posts · 407 votes
    11y

    @Andrew D.   I understand your dilemma.  In my opinion, you are mixing strategies.  If you followed DR to the letter, you probably wouldn't have even one rental yet because he says get debt free then buy a rental with cash.  RDPD loves good debt on real estate because it allows you to take advantage of the power of leverage.  I don't think of mortgage debt on rentals as personal debt. I enjoyed paying off all my personal debt that I did it a few times.....  Love DR and RDPD but after I got out of personal debt the last time I follow the RDPD philosophy 100%.

  • Investor · Cedar Rapids, IA · Member since 2014 · 71 posts · 38 votes
    11y

    @Glenn McCrorey I've always told my wife that I've got a hybrid investing approach.  I've read a lot of books and I feel like I've taken something from most but there are some things that don't work for me. I've heard the DR advice of paying one off before the next but am to impatient and worry about missing out on very lucrative deals in the mean time. Before I leave my day job I do plan on paying off my personal residence and any vehicle loans.

  • Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y

    @Andrew D.,

    Something to consider about Cramer, Dave Ramsey, Suze Orman, etc.:

    They are speaking to "consumers" more than to entrepreneurs. That is, people who only understand working for money, not necessarily having money work for them.

    My financial mentors teach putting equity to work producing income (arbitrage) instead of letting "dead" equity just sit and ebb/flow with the economic tide.

    Just wanted to present another viewpoint.

  • Investor · Grand Prairie, TX · Member since 2015 · 1 post · 1 vote
    11y
    I'm glad to say that I just made my last car payment this past Friday. In addition, the house where I live is also paid off. I am in the dilemma of where to put my income. I have two rental properties and I'm contemplating on whether to pay them off or save to buy more. I think everything in me is saying to buy more properties. Either way, it feels great to be out of personal debt.
  • Rental Property Investor · Shawnee Mission, KS · Member since 2014 · 205 posts · 136 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Andrew D.:

    @Glenn McCrorey I've always told my wife that I've got a hybrid investing approach.  I've read a lot of books and I feel like I've taken something from most but there are some things that don't work for me. I've heard the DR advice of paying one off before the next but am to impatient and worry about missing out on very lucrative deals in the mean time. Before I leave my day job I do plan on paying off my personal residence and any vehicle loans.

     Hi Andrew - congrats on getting to 20 units!  Are you doing your own PM and working full time?

    On your question, in my opinion, you are better off using the excess revenues you had planned to rotate across your portfolio each month on one property and get it paid off completely.  This will increase your cashflow and then you can take this increased amount and move on to the next property.  I would target either the lowest principal balance or if you have a substantially higher rate or a worrisome balloon on just one or two in which case I would target those properties instead.   My feeling is that if a finance whiz did a mathematical model on these approaches you would come out ahead focusing on one specific property at a time for early paydown but I am not that whiz so I won't undertake to prove it with math.  It probably does not win by as much though because of the high savings on interest you will see on all the houses that you make early payments on.

  • Investor · Cedar Rapids, IA · Member since 2014 · 71 posts · 38 votes
    11y

    @Cliff Harrison Yes I do self manage my own rentals as well as doing quite a bit of my own rehab work. I have thought about paying off the smallest loans first but since I've only owned the majority of these houses for 4 yrs or less I'm not sure if this is my best bet.

    For instance, if I have a property that I only owe 30k on its because I got it dirt cheap and put a ton of sweat equity in. If I take the time to pay of the 30k I've only freed up 150 to 200 dollars a month. Sure paying off my higher mortgages quick would free up significant money but it would take quite a while to do. 

  • Investor · West Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2014 · 230 posts · 239 votes
    11y

    @Andrew D.

    I highly suggest reading millionaire fast lane. It talks about exactly what you're trying to accomplish.  It's one of the best business books I read.  It's available in audio version as well. I'm in the same predicament at 45 and I can tell you from experience there comes a time where you don't want to work anymore. Good for you for having the vision to take action now while you're young.

  • Investor · Cedar Rapids, IA · Member since 2014 · 71 posts · 38 votes
    11y

    @Account Closed Several years ago I remember seeing that title at my local public library.  I guess I skipped over it because I didn't see it pertaining strictly to Real Estate.  Maybe I'll have to give it a look.  Thanks for the info!

  • Austin DavisPro Member
    Investor · Cedar Rapids, IA · Member since 2014 · 205 posts · 80 votes
    11y

    @Andrew D.-I am also a DR and RDPD fan and have developed a similar goal.  What to do with my personal debt (my house) is the biggest dilemma.  I think I have landed on putting most of my leftover personal income and business income into more RE until I can build up my portfolio to where I want it and using the cash flow to pay off my house.  

    I agree that DR is not for entrepreneurs, but do think personal debt that puts you at the greatest risk because you need a job to pay for it, where the rentals (should) pay for themselves.  That is my rationale for using both approaches.

    After I pay off my personal house, I will have a similar approach to you and work on paying off my rental mortgages until I have enough cash flow to quit my job. At that point, I will either pursue more RE investments or just enjoy life for a while.  

    The reason DR says to pay off your smallest debt first is so you can "feel the small win" of paying off debt, which is geared toward the person with a bunch of personal liabilities that doesn't know where to start.  This approach wouldn't be for the entrepreneur who is trying to increase cash flow.

  • Rental Property Investor · Shawnee Mission, KS · Member since 2014 · 205 posts · 136 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Andrew D.:

    @Cliff Harrison Yes I do self manage my own rentals as well as doing quite a bit of my own rehab work. I have thought about paying off the smallest loans first but since I've only owned the majority of these houses for 4 yrs or less I'm not sure if this is my best bet.

    For instance, if I have a property that I only owe 30k on its because I got it dirt cheap and put a ton of sweat equity in. If I take the time to pay of the 30k I've only freed up 150 to 200 dollars a month. Sure paying off my higher mortgages quick would free up significant money but it would take quite a while to do. 

    It starts slow and unimpressively - but that $200 monthly will become an extra $2400 annually to throw at your second lowest mortgage.  Partner it with your original excess cash flow (I'll guesstimate $100/door at least) and you are knocking out a house in a couple of years.  Then when it is paid for also you will then have $400 or $4800 extra annually for the third lowest mortgage.  Then $600/7200, $800/9600, etc.   Then you have serious extra cashflow you can either stop and live on it or continue snowballing paying off more than one house per year.  You haven't spent one extra dollar that you were not planning to direct to early paydown anyway, but you get the fruit of your labor earlier and I think it makes more sense if you are planning to stop the w2 job relatively young.  This has been talked about on BP as the Snowball paydown strategy.  If you need money for deals also you can refinance or sell (1031) the free and clear properties.   I'd like to see some comparison math on this applied over a 15 year timeframe.

  • Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 905 votes
    11y

    It may not be worth doing refi individually on each property. Have you looked into a blanket refi loan?

  • Investor · Shibuya Ku, Tōkyō-to · Member since 2015 · 90 posts · 36 votes
    11y

    @Andrew D.

    Not that my advice would be early loan repayment, but I think if you do decide to go that route then which loan to pay off early really depends on the rate and remaining life of the loan, and not the overall size of the loan, if you're looking at reducing your monthly debt payments.  Longer life loans with higher interest rates should absolutely be the ones targeted first, all other things being equal (such as early payment penalties, etc).

    I'm actually in a somewhat similar situation, but instead of early payment my strategy has been to stagger my loans so that they'll get paid off at different times.  Why I chose this approach is because I've found different banks and financing options have offered preferential rates for different tenors at different points in time, and so I've been targeting the best rates available that fit into my investment strategy and keep me cash flow positive whenever I'm looking to finance a new investment.

    For example, I currently have loans with 10, 14.5, 22, 23, and 28.5 years left on them, each one getting me the best rate I could get for any tenor via the financing options I used.  My larger loans have the longer tenors to maximize my cash flow in the interim, and the shorter tenor loans are pretty much cash flow flat, with the idea being when the first loans start getting fully paid off then my cash flow should begin to increase every 5 years or so.  This is also assuming I hold all of these properties for the entire life of the loan, which is absolutely up in the air still at this point.  But with what I do have the plan moving forward on any new investment property loan would be to max out the tenor (30 years) to maximize cash flow in the short term - assuming the 30 year rates available make it a good investment.

  • Investor · Hoffman Estates, IL · Member since 2014 · 434 posts · 185 votes
    11y

    Buy now while deals are plentiful and financing is cheap.

  • Investor · Cedar Rapids, IA · Member since 2009 · 143 posts · 29 votes
    11y

    It's basically trade off between higher returns vs less risk and less work. Anytime there's a trade off there's no right answer. 20 paid off houses may cashflow about the same as 40 houses with mortgages. In the long run the 40 should earn you more though, but 20 will be half the work and is less risky since there's no mortgage payments.

    I'm in growth mode now, but I figure I'll probably eventually decide I've got enough and then just take the path of paying them off.

    If you do decide to start paying them off, I'd recommend paying them off in the order or the interest rates. Highest first, lowest last.

  • Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Joshua Carreno:

    I'm glad to say that I just made my last car payment this past Friday. In addition, the house where I live is also paid off. I am in the dilemma of where to put my income. I have two rental properties and I'm contemplating on whether to pay them off or save to buy more. I think everything in me is saying to buy more properties. Either way, it feels great to be out of personal debt.

    Congrats on conquering your personal debt!

    Now, how 'bout putting your equity to work making money for you?

    You might explore deeding your home into your business entity (if you have one, if you don't get one!), then let the business borrow the equity out for you to use acquiring more rentals. Just remember that your return must exceed the interest your business is paying - that's called "arbitrage".

    Shop around for financial mentors who can identify with those paradigms and they will help you turn your equity into cash flow.

    Study up on being a private lender, also. People like me pay 12% to 20% or more for 6-month loans to acquire and rehab properties. Where can you get those kinds of returns secured by real property?

  • Investor · Cedar Rapids, IA · Member since 2014 · 71 posts · 38 votes
    11y

    Thank-you for all of the advice.  I've got a lot of different choices that I'll have to begin implementing soon.  While I do plan to leave my day job in the next 6 years, I do plan to keep pursuing real estate in some form or another.  Perhaps no longer having my day job will open up doors to more lucrative deals.

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