Skip to content
×
PRO
Pro Members Get Full Access!
Get off the sidelines and take action in real estate investing with BiggerPockets Pro. Our comprehensive suite of tools and resources minimize mistakes, support informed decisions, and propel you to success.
Advanced networking features
Market and Deal Finder tools
Property analysis calculators
Landlord Command Center
$0
TODAY
$69.00/month when billed monthly.
$32.50/month when billed annually.
7 day free trial. Cancel anytime
Already a Pro Member? Sign in here

Join Over 3 Million Real Estate Investors

Create a free BiggerPockets account to comment, participate, and connect with over 3 million real estate investors.
Use your real name
By signing up, you indicate that you agree to the BiggerPockets Terms & Conditions.
The community here is like my own little personal real estate army that I can depend upon to help me through ANY problems I come across.
General Real Estate Investing
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

User Stats

74
Posts
43
Votes
Angie B.
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Chattanooga, TN
43
Votes |
74
Posts

Abandoned Property

Angie B.
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Chattanooga, TN
Posted

We drove by a house (driving for dollars) that appears to be abandoned, and it is in a decent neighborhood where we were looking at other properties. I looked up the owner, and after searching online, traced the LLC name and address back to Vesta Properties. http://vestaholdings.com/vesta/index.asp It appears they purchased the tax lien, but they were also listed as the property owner (I'm not sure if that is what automatically happens when you purchase a tax lien?).

Anyway, we were interested in contacting the owner to see if they want to sell, but now knowing this is a major company that invests in tax liens, what do you think? Do they typically want to sell the properties? I don't know enough about tax liens to know what the next move is.

User Stats

14
Posts
5
Votes
Patrice McCloud
  • Jacksonville, FL
5
Votes |
14
Posts
Patrice McCloud
  • Jacksonville, FL
Replied

Hi @Angie B.

Based on the fact that the company that owns the tax lien certificate is the owner of the property indicates that the property itself reverted to them at a tax deed sale.  This means that the original owners of the property did not "redeem" (pay off back taxes) the property within a set period of time. (Please note: This process depends on your particular state.)  In Florida, the process is that the certificate owner exercised its rights to sell the lien to the highest bidder. No one placed a bid on the property, so they became the owners of the property.  (The deed is issued in the company's name.)

From my research (no hands-on experience yet), the companies that buy tax lien certificates do not want the properties, just the money invested plus the interest (It can be very lucrative!).  With that said, you may have a great chance of getting that property if you inquire. 

Best wishes!

Account Closed
  • Dallas, TX
744
Votes |
4,988
Posts
Account Closed
  • Dallas, TX
Replied

Vesta Properties do buy tax liens and tax deeds, and they do sell.


My 2cents,


Joe Gore

Baselane logo
Baselane
|
Sponsored
Baselane is the Ultimate All-In-One Banking Platform for REI Built with integrated rent collection & bookkeeping to save time so you can grow your RE business.

User Stats

74
Posts
43
Votes
Angie B.
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Chattanooga, TN
43
Votes |
74
Posts
Angie B.
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Chattanooga, TN
Replied

Okay, so they actually own four properties in our county- and it appears that they purchased the lien, became the owner at some point, and SINCE that point they stopped paying the taxes on it. I'm thinking that since perhaps they do not want to own the properties, they just want the taxes paid plus interest, they are going to let someone else purchase the lien at the next tax sale.

If all I have to pay are the taxes owed plus interest from the last two years, depending on the house location and condition of course, this could be a great deal.

Do you think this could be a good way to buy property cheap? Does anyone do this strategically?

User Stats

25
Posts
13
Votes
Derek Robertson
  • Contractor
  • Seattle, WA
13
Votes |
25
Posts
Derek Robertson
  • Contractor
  • Seattle, WA
Replied

Tagging this to see progress

User Stats

117
Posts
35
Votes
Spenser Harding
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Tacoma, WA
35
Votes |
117
Posts
Spenser Harding
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Tacoma, WA
Replied

Very interested to see how this turns out for you.

User Stats

14
Posts
5
Votes
Patrice McCloud
  • Jacksonville, FL
5
Votes |
14
Posts
Patrice McCloud
  • Jacksonville, FL
Replied

I have just recently been researching tax liens and deed sales as an investment niche. My research has shown that tax deed sales are just as popular as regular auctions due to the opening bid prices. (they can be as low as $1,000). What's even more intriguing about the process is that only governmental liens survive the sale, which could mean mortgages, back HOA dues are wiped out. (Double check for the laws/procedures in your state). So your thought process of using tax deeds or even liens to acquire properties is a great one to explore.

Please remember as with any properties acquired in this manner, it's Buyer beware.  Typically, most tax liens/deeds are redeemed by the owner or some other entity. So while you may find some gems, most need significant work. Here are some options:

Option#1--After doing your due diligence on the property, contact the company to negotiate acquisition. If it goes to a tax lien certificate sale again, it would take two more years before you could acquire a chance to purchase the property. By that time, it would not even be worth it. 

I came across a similar situation in my research just yesterday where a company that purchased a lien and was issued a deed, now owes back taxes on that property. It is now on a county "lands available" list. I purchased the list ($12) and all the properties available to purchase are on that list.

Option #2--(based on the above scenario) Contact the county to see if that property is on their list. If so, and you are still interested in the property, you could purchase it from the county.  

However you choose to proceed, you have options to make tax deed property acquisitions work for you in this case. Keep me posted on how this turns out.

User Stats

14
Posts
5
Votes
Patrice McCloud
  • Jacksonville, FL
5
Votes |
14
Posts
Patrice McCloud
  • Jacksonville, FL
Replied

BP member @Ned Carey has done some tax lien purchases and may have some insight on how you could proceed as well. I've read a lot of his and other members' posts under the tax lien, tax deed forums.

User Stats

110
Posts
44
Votes
Renee R.
  • Sandown, NH
44
Votes |
110
Posts
Renee R.
  • Sandown, NH
Replied

I'm interested in following this thread.

User Stats

280
Posts
98
Votes
Darron Stewart
  • Investor
  • Hattiesburg, MS
98
Votes |
280
Posts
Darron Stewart
  • Investor
  • Hattiesburg, MS
Replied

The company may wait until last minute to pay the taxes. They are looking to make money and its just a matter of negotiating the right price. With all that said, the title is usually still clouded so most likely you will get it transferred via quit claim. Once you have can do anything you want, but the cloud will make reselling difficult until judge, lawyer, and or previous owner allow it to be cleared into a special warranty deed or hopefully warranty deed. A lot of info on web and through county, do your research...

User Stats

16,427
Posts
12,694
Votes
Ned Carey
Pro Member
  • Investor
  • Baltimore, MD
12,694
Votes |
16,427
Posts
Ned Carey
Pro Member
  • Investor
  • Baltimore, MD
ModeratorReplied

The tax lien is somewhat irrelevant. Talk to the owner and try to work a deal. The back taxes just get paid off at settlement.  

In this situation it appears that Vesta bought the lien and subsequently acquired the property. If they have not paid the subsequent taxes they probably don't see much value in it. Otherwise they would have already sold it. Just contact them and see if they want to sell.

  • Ned Carey
  • User Stats

    23
    Posts
    4
    Votes
    Stevie Johnson
    • Wholesaler
    • Atlanta, GA
    4
    Votes |
    23
    Posts
    Stevie Johnson
    • Wholesaler
    • Atlanta, GA
    Replied

    This is a good discussion. I had a similar question. I came across a man who asked me if i was interested in purchasing his property, I looked up the property and it is actually a duplex owned by a tax lien investment company. I was unaware of the steps to take. The man trying to sell the property wouldn't give me a price he wanted to sell at, he said name your price and we can negotiate. Would this be a good property for me to pursue as a wholesaler?

    User Stats

    16,427
    Posts
    12,694
    Votes
    Ned Carey
    Pro Member
    • Investor
    • Baltimore, MD
    12,694
    Votes |
    16,427
    Posts
    Ned Carey
    Pro Member
    • Investor
    • Baltimore, MD
    ModeratorReplied
    Originally posted by @Stevie Johnson:

    I came across a man who asked me if i was interested in purchasing his property, I looked up the property and it is actually a duplex owned by a tax lien investment company. I was unaware of the steps to take. The man trying to sell the property wouldn't give me a price he wanted to sell at, he said name your price and we can negotiate. Would this be a good property for me to pursue as a wholesaler?

     Absolutely yes! You have someone that wants to sell their house. Make an offer that works for you. That is the first step in any wholesale (or any other type of) deal.

    Realistically will it pan out? Probably not. But it starts with an offer.

    Dos that man still own the property? Is he an owner or manager of the Tax lien investment company that you said owns the property? Or perhaps he was the former owner and lost it. Is this person a bird dog or wholesaler for the tax lien company?  These are all questions that pop into my head but they can all be worked out after you have a contract. 

  • Ned Carey
  • Baselane logo
    Baselane
    |
    Sponsored
    BiggerPockets prefers Baselane The #1 REI platform that integrates banking, rent collection and bookkeeping to save time and money.

    User Stats

    7
    Posts
    1
    Votes
    Winston D.
    • Property Manager
    • Irving, TX
    1
    Votes |
    7
    Posts
    Winston D.
    • Property Manager
    • Irving, TX
    Replied

    I would do my own research the property and see what the tax bill owed is, the redemption rights and determine if the net price to buy out the holder of the tax certificate and the home owner and rehab and sales cost is significantly below the FMV then it could possibly worth it.

    Remember, the investment company has an interest in the property to the extent of the tax certificate and interest.  If not paid before the man's redemption right expired, they will owner the property outright.  This man is a very motivated seller and he does not haveall the time in the world.

    I would ask him about his situation and see if he is motivated enough to sell it on your terms

    User Stats

    48
    Posts
    31
    Votes
    Reuben Stewart
    • Anaheim, CA
    31
    Votes |
    48
    Posts
    Reuben Stewart
    • Anaheim, CA
    Replied

    @Angie B. Dont over think it...

    Just ask, over the last year, ive been able to make my dreams a reality by simpy opening my mouth and asking. They my want to dump all their properties, you never know. I buy my liens in Indiana from a lady who has no intrest at all in the properties, she just wants the intrest so she'll wait up until a few days before the sale to find a buyer. 

    Just ask...

    I hope you have sucess with this...please update us on the status...

    Happy Investing

    User Stats

    74
    Posts
    43
    Votes
    Angie B.
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Chattanooga, TN
    43
    Votes |
    74
    Posts
    Angie B.
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Chattanooga, TN
    Replied

    @Reuben Stewart and @Ned Carey - well I called the only number I could find for Vesta Holdings and emailed them as well. I haven't heard anything. I could send a letter to the PO box I guess. I will keep you posted if I hear something, and plan to bid on the lien if they don't pay it off.

    One of the other properties that is also deeded under that LLC now, is a much nicer house, not abandoned (I think they rent it to the original owners), but they also haven't paid the taxes on it either. I guess they could at the last minute, but they will owe all the interest on it (which is 18% up to the point it is sold in a tax sale which is when it becomes 10%). Why would they do that? Do you think it is possible this particular LLC is going bankrupt?

    I will update this post as I find out more...

    User Stats

    3,435
    Posts
    2,535
    Votes
    David Krulac
    • Mechanicsburg, PA
    2,535
    Votes |
    3,435
    Posts
    David Krulac
    • Mechanicsburg, PA
    Replied

    Send the letter to the PO Box.

    The company is probably not going bankrupt.  Many of those types of companies have a policy of not paying the taxes until the last possible minute.

    I've been to tax sales where the FedEx person is making a delivery of the tax payment while the tax sale is being conducted.  Nothing like waiting to the last minute.

    At some taxing agencies they will accept the delinquent tax payment from that day's delivery of mail from USPS, UPS, FedEx etc. until the close of business that tax sale day and accept those payment even for properties sold earlier that day and then canceling the winning bid.

    I've bought property from such companies as this, all they are looking for is the profit and usually don't care about the property.  Show me the money!

    You might ask why also going to tax sales myself for 20+ years why I would not buy the property myself instead of buying from a tax sale company?  In my case the company negotiated a deal with the county and bought all the properties in the county BEFORE the tax sale so no tax sale was ever held that year in the whole county.