Who does Small multifamily investing in Clevland or other OH cities?????????

Cleveland, Ohio
General Real Estate Investing
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Who does Small multifamily investing in Clevland or other OH cities?????????

Marc Globensky
Property Manager · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2021 · 39 posts · 22 votes

Hey my fellow investors,

I'm looking for a new market to break into. Phoenix is over saturated with investors and deals no longer make sense. 

I currently own 7 rental units 3 in Indianapolis, IN and 4 in Killeen, TX. 

I've been watching other investors on Youtube and what not talk about OH cities as a place to go but am incredibly skeptical when i do market research and see 5000-30000 2-4 units down to their studs with ARVs' of 180,000.00.  Additionally, the inventory there is larger than personally what i feel is healthy for an economy with a supply shortage??? idk I've never lived there nor visited. anyone in the area want to shed some light on this area? is it like south phoenix, AZ or Detroit, MI... Like whats up?

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Alfath AhmedBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Marc Globensky:

Hey my fellow investors,

I'm looking for a new market to break into. Phoenix is over saturated with investors and deals no longer make sense. 

I currently own 7 rental units 3 in Indianapolis, IN and 4 in Killeen, TX. 

I've been watching other investors on Youtube and what not talk about OH cities as a place to go but am incredibly skeptical when i do market research and see 5000-30000 2-4 units down to their studs with ARVs' of 180,000.00.  Additionally, the inventory there is larger than personally what i feel is healthy for an economy with a supply shortage??? idk I've never lived there nor visited. anyone in the area want to shed some light on this area? is it like south phoenix, AZ or Detroit, MI... Like whats up?


 Hey Marc, I think you should definitely look into the Columbus market. There are areas that I recommend however that I personally invest in alongside my clients. I personally like Old North, Old Town East/King Lincoln Bronze Ville, Merion Village, Driving Park, North Linden, Hungarian Village, Bexley, and North Hilltop. These are all great areas to buy investment properties in.

[email protected]614-802-5698
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  • Michael SmytheBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Metro Detroit · Member since 2023 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    3y

    @Marc Globensky

    You might want to follow the "Deep Dive" series we're doing on our BiggerPockets blog about Metro Detroit cities, City of Detroit Neighborhoods and comparing Metro Detroit to other hotspots investors usually consider:

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/member-blogs/3094/99854-deep-dive-into-metro-detroit-cities-ecorse

    Our analysis is a template you can follow for any city. Doubt you'll find this much info for any other market in the US. So, why would you invest remotely anywhere else?

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  • Steve TsePro Member
    Member since 2021 · 100 posts · 16 votes
    3y



    @Marc Globensky what don't you like about Killeen and don't want to continue investing there ?

    0Reply
  • Sam McCormackBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Cincinnati, OH/NKY · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 833 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Marc Globensky:

    Hey my fellow investors,

    I'm looking for a new market to break into. Phoenix is over saturated with investors and deals no longer make sense. 

    I currently own 7 rental units 3 in Indianapolis, IN and 4 in Killeen, TX. 

    I've been watching other investors on Youtube and what not talk about OH cities as a place to go but am incredibly skeptical when i do market research and see 5000-30000 2-4 units down to their studs with ARVs' of 180,000.00.  Additionally, the inventory there is larger than personally what i feel is healthy for an economy with a supply shortage??? idk I've never lived there nor visited. anyone in the area want to shed some light on this area? is it like south phoenix, AZ or Detroit, MI... Like whats up?


     You may want to look into Cincinnati. I think you would like what there is to offer here. I am an agent here so let me know how I can help!

    [email protected]859-443-4952
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  • Patrick DruryBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH & Cleveland OH · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    @Marc Globensky
     It depends on where you are looking in Cleveland. Any 2-4 units in the price range of $5,000-$30,000 are probably in a warzone or an absolute piece. I would recommend being in areas on the West Side of Cleveland like West Blvd, Cudell, Old Brooklyn, Clark Fulton, Edgewater, Jefferson, and Brooklyn Centre. The reason is the rent-to-price ratio is good so you can cash flow, and most of the West side doesn’t have a Point of sale inspection which is really annoying.


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  • Andrew Duna
    Real Estate Agent · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2020 · 67 posts · 83 votes
    3y

    Hi Marc - Congrats on the properties so far! 

    In general I'm not sure where you might be seeing properties for $5-30k with ARVs of $180k. If you see those frequently then please let me know as I'd love to flip them lol! Usually the price range I recommend for single family is $85k - $110k. Duplexes-- $120-150k-- if a duplex is under $120k there is usually a very good reason for it (bad location, bigger issues, low rents/bad tenants). 

    The general inventory of well-priced and attractive properties typically flies off the market within 3-5 biz days. If a property lasts more than 15 days it's usually because it's either overpriced or has a larger issue (or both!)

    I'm generally unsure of what other metro Cleveland might compare to-- but I do know there is a lot of interest and it seems we are in the middle of a wave which I feel will lead to a lot more appreciation than the Cleveland market usually experiences over the next 5 years.

    I am an investor focused agent here in Cleveland and I'd love to answer any other questions you may have! 

    3Reply
  • Marc Globensky
    OP
    Property Manager · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2021 · 39 posts · 22 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Steve Tse:



    @Marc Globensky what don't you like about Killeen and don't want to continue investing there ?


     I love Killeen it's just no longer making sense to buy rentals there. 400k for a four unit and only getting 3200 a month with 2.5% vacancy and having to update all mechanical equipment if they havent been yet is a hole. it doesnt make sense short term. and is costly to get in now. I've bought all my properties with no money down via va loans or credit cards as down payments. 

    0Reply
  • Steve TsePro Member
    Member since 2021 · 100 posts · 16 votes
    3y

    @Marc Globensky I totally agree with you that buying fourplexes no longer pencils out. If however, you find a cash flowing deal, would you continue investing in Killeen area? 

    There is not much going on there but a single army base...

    0Reply
  • Marc Globensky
    OP
    Property Manager · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2021 · 39 posts · 22 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Steve Tse:

    @Marc Globensky I totally agree with you that buying fourplexes no longer pencils out. If however, you find a cash flowing deal, would you continue investing in Killeen area? 

    There is not much going on there but a single army base...


     Theres a ton going on there now.

    Texas a and m are there with a satellite campus, central Texas college is there. bell county has grown substantially in the last few years 100k plus people in bell county. Additionally, it does have the military base. Additionally, its roughly an hour away from Austin and people in Texas commute long long long distances. The rents are growing higher bc of supply of rentals and demand. I've currently had 2 years of 110% occupancy somehow... even duplexs dont make sense... I can say if you manage to work hard and focus on preforclosures or something single family flips make sense out there. sfh may work... i'm honestly to scared to try sfh at least in this rate economy.

    0Reply
  • Ben Miller
    Member since 2008 · 30 posts · 23 votes
    3y

    I am in Cincinnati and invest in Cincinnati and Dayton (45 minutes north of Cincinnati). In Dayton you can find a lot of those <$30K properties and they are in terrible areas. Small multi-families in decent areas, C+, will likely be $65K a door and up ARV, Dayton is cheaper than Cincinnati. Of all the Ohio cities, Columbus probably has the highest upside given the tremendous amount of corporate investment happening there. I like the Cincinnati market though.

    1Reply
  • Jimmy LieuBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2019 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Marc Globensky:

    Hey my fellow investors,

    I'm looking for a new market to break into. Phoenix is over saturated with investors and deals no longer make sense. 

    I currently own 7 rental units 3 in Indianapolis, IN and 4 in Killeen, TX. 

    I've been watching other investors on Youtube and what not talk about OH cities as a place to go but am incredibly skeptical when i do market research and see 5000-30000 2-4 units down to their studs with ARVs' of 180,000.00.  Additionally, the inventory there is larger than personally what i feel is healthy for an economy with a supply shortage??? idk I've never lived there nor visited. anyone in the area want to shed some light on this area? is it like south phoenix, AZ or Detroit, MI... Like whats up?

    Hi Marc, I personally love Columbus Ohio and as someone who works with a lot of out of state investors - there's so many catalysts for why you should invest here. Specifically, there's job growth (Intel, Honda, Amazon, Nationwide, etc) and the population is growing (unlike Cleveland or Cincy). I really see Columbus Ohio as an extremely safe bet for the next 10-20 years. Plus, there's still so many positive cash flowing and 1% deals here in Columbus Ohio. As a local investor and agent here in Columbus, let me know if you have any questions or want to connect!

      [email protected]614-300-7535
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    • Remington LymanBusiness Member
      Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
      3y
      Quote from @Marc Globensky:

      Hey my fellow investors,

      I'm looking for a new market to break into. Phoenix is over saturated with investors and deals no longer make sense. 

      I currently own 7 rental units 3 in Indianapolis, IN and 4 in Killeen, TX. 

      I've been watching other investors on Youtube and what not talk about OH cities as a place to go but am incredibly skeptical when i do market research and see 5000-30000 2-4 units down to their studs with ARVs' of 180,000.00.  Additionally, the inventory there is larger than personally what i feel is healthy for an economy with a supply shortage??? idk I've never lived there nor visited. anyone in the area want to shed some light on this area? is it like south phoenix, AZ or Detroit, MI... Like whats up?


       You should check out Cleveland or Columbus, Ohio

      [email protected]614-541-8475Podcast Guest on Show My Job Laid Me Off, So I Replaced My Salary with Rentals
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    • Alfath AhmedBusiness Member
      Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
      3y
      Quote from @Marc Globensky:

      Hey my fellow investors,

      I'm looking for a new market to break into. Phoenix is over saturated with investors and deals no longer make sense. 

      I currently own 7 rental units 3 in Indianapolis, IN and 4 in Killeen, TX. 

      I've been watching other investors on Youtube and what not talk about OH cities as a place to go but am incredibly skeptical when i do market research and see 5000-30000 2-4 units down to their studs with ARVs' of 180,000.00.  Additionally, the inventory there is larger than personally what i feel is healthy for an economy with a supply shortage??? idk I've never lived there nor visited. anyone in the area want to shed some light on this area? is it like south phoenix, AZ or Detroit, MI... Like whats up?


       Hey Marc, I think you should definitely look into the Columbus market. There are areas that I recommend however that I personally invest in alongside my clients. I personally like Old North, Old Town East/King Lincoln Bronze Ville, Merion Village, Driving Park, North Linden, Hungarian Village, Bexley, and North Hilltop. These are all great areas to buy investment properties in.

      [email protected]614-802-5698
      ReafCo | Ahmed Group 536 Reviews
      WebsiteView Page
      4Reply
    • Jack KrusinskiBusiness Member
      Realtor · Cleveland/Akron OH · Member since 2019 · 146 posts · 93 votes
      3y

      Hi Marc,

      I am a real estate investor in Cleveland and also an agent—a few data points on the Cleveland market. The Cleveland market has seen prices increase by 12.9% year-over-year for the past three years. Last year rents went up by 12.5%. Both our rent and price appreciation are in the top 10 in the United States. Our current supply is very slow. Lowest than the national average. See the charts below. Something to know about the Cleveland market is many small multi-family properties were built in the 1920s. Making our average house pretty old. We have a very strong renter population—50% of people who live in Cleveland are Renters. I do not have a crystal ball, but if I had to guess, Cleveland will continue to be the city that sees good rent appreciation and good price appreciation. In good times, Cleveland will do well like other cities. And in bad times, Cleveland will not be quite as bad compared to other cities given that our economy is primarily health care centered. Again, I do not have a crystal ball and am definitely not an economist. But for those reasons, I continue to invest in the Cleveland Market.

      [email protected]216-789-6736
      1Reply
    • Paul Gray Jr
      Member since 2023 · 2 posts · 0 votes
      3y

      Hey Guys I'm also plan on investing in Ohio. Looking for more of a turn key quadplex. In a B or A neighborhood. I plan on using FHA . If you have any properties please don't hesitate to reach out.

      0Reply
    • Brittany MinocchiBusiness Member
      Lender · Massillon, OH · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 486 votes
      3y
      Quote from @Paul Gray Jr:

      Hey Guys I'm also plan on investing in Ohio. Looking for more of a turn key quadplex. In a B or A neighborhood. I plan on using FHA . If you have any properties please don't hesitate to reach out.


       Hey Paul! Just a heads up, with 3-4 units, you'll need to pass the self-sufficiency test. The rents from all units will need to cover 100% of your proposed monthly payment. I've talked to a few folks lately who didn't know about this, so figured I'd mention it! Feel free to connect. 

      [email protected]330-354-6590
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    • James Wise
      Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
      3y
      Quote from @Marc Globensky:

      Hey my fellow investors,

      I'm looking for a new market to break into. Phoenix is over saturated with investors and deals no longer make sense. 

      I currently own 7 rental units 3 in Indianapolis, IN and 4 in Killeen, TX. 

      I've been watching other investors on Youtube and what not talk about OH cities as a place to go but am incredibly skeptical when i do market research and see 5000-30000 2-4 units down to their studs with ARVs' of 180,000.00.  Additionally, the inventory there is larger than personally what i feel is healthy for an economy with a supply shortage??? idk I've never lived there nor visited. anyone in the area want to shed some light on this area? is it like south phoenix, AZ or Detroit, MI... Like whats up?

      4 units in the majority of the Cleveland area are gonna have an ARV above $180k....2 units though, almost all of those will be way under a $180k ARV.

      1Reply
    • Marc Globensky
      OP
      Property Manager · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2021 · 39 posts · 22 votes
      3y
      Quote from @Brittany Minocchi:
      Quote from @Paul Gray Jr:

      Hey Guys I'm also plan on investing in Ohio. Looking for more of a turn key quadplex. In a B or A neighborhood. I plan on using FHA . If you have any properties please don't hesitate to reach out.


       Hey Paul! Just a heads up, with 3-4 units, you'll need to pass the self-sufficiency test. The rents from all units will need to cover 100% of your proposed monthly payment. I've talked to a few folks lately who didn't know about this, so figured I'd mention it! Feel free to connect. 


       Could you expand on this a bit and provide an example of what you mean?

      0Reply
    • Brittany MinocchiBusiness Member
      Lender · Massillon, OH · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 486 votes
      3y
      Quote from @Marc Globensky:
      Quote from @Brittany Minocchi:
      Quote from @Paul Gray Jr:

      Hey Guys I'm also plan on investing in Ohio. Looking for more of a turn key quadplex. In a B or A neighborhood. I plan on using FHA . If you have any properties please don't hesitate to reach out.


       Hey Paul! Just a heads up, with 3-4 units, you'll need to pass the self-sufficiency test. The rents from all units will need to cover 100% of your proposed monthly payment. I've talked to a few folks lately who didn't know about this, so figured I'd mention it! Feel free to connect. 


       Could you expand on this a bit and provide an example of what you mean?

      With a 3-4 unit property, the rents have to cover 100%+ of the monthly payment. So if your payment is $3k, the net rents between the 4 units need to cover that.
      [email protected]330-354-6590
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    • Marc Globensky
      OP
      Property Manager · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2021 · 39 posts · 22 votes
      3y
      Quote from @Brittany Minocchi:
      Quote from @Marc Globensky:
      Quote from @Brittany Minocchi:
      Quote from @Paul Gray Jr:

      Hey Guys I'm also plan on investing in Ohio. Looking for more of a turn key quadplex. In a B or A neighborhood. I plan on using FHA . If you have any properties please don't hesitate to reach out.


       Hey Paul! Just a heads up, with 3-4 units, you'll need to pass the self-sufficiency test. The rents from all units will need to cover 100% of your proposed monthly payment. I've talked to a few folks lately who didn't know about this, so figured I'd mention it! Feel free to connect. 


       Could you expand on this a bit and provide an example of what you mean?

      With a 3-4 unit property, the rents have to cover 100%+ of the monthly payment. So if your payment is $3k, the net rents between the 4 units need to cover that.

      Are you talking about FHA/VA/Conventional or simply DSCR?

      I don't see how this would ever work in an owner occupied 2-4 unit. I've always been under the impression that you can only use 75% of the leases rents in underwriting for gov backed loans along with w2/1099 income from previous 2 years, and the buyer has to live in the property/one of the units for at least 12 months. when the average rent for a 2/1 in theses types of cities are 800 that will add up to 2400 on a 4 plex with 3 tenants. on a 250k four plex this would never work with 0-5% down on an owner occupied. it makes using a government backed loan impossible to use basically.

      0Reply
    • Brittany MinocchiBusiness Member
      Lender · Massillon, OH · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 486 votes
      3y
      Quote from @Marc Globensky:
      Quote from @Brittany Minocchi:
      Quote from @Marc Globensky:
      Quote from @Brittany Minocchi:
      Quote from @Paul Gray Jr:

      Hey Guys I'm also plan on investing in Ohio. Looking for more of a turn key quadplex. In a B or A neighborhood. I plan on using FHA . If you have any properties please don't hesitate to reach out.


       Hey Paul! Just a heads up, with 3-4 units, you'll need to pass the self-sufficiency test. The rents from all units will need to cover 100% of your proposed monthly payment. I've talked to a few folks lately who didn't know about this, so figured I'd mention it! Feel free to connect. 


       Could you expand on this a bit and provide an example of what you mean?

      With a 3-4 unit property, the rents have to cover 100%+ of the monthly payment. So if your payment is $3k, the net rents between the 4 units need to cover that.

      Are you talking about FHA/VA/Conventional or simply DSCR?

      My comment you replied to was to the original poster regarding FHA financing. DSCR works similarly - most lenders want the rents to equal or exceed the monthly payment 
      [email protected]330-354-6590
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    • Marc Globensky
      OP
      Property Manager · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2021 · 39 posts · 22 votes
      3y
      Quote from @Brittany Minocchi:
      Quote from @Marc Globensky:
      Quote from @Brittany Minocchi:
      Quote from @Marc Globensky:
      Quote from @Brittany Minocchi:
      Quote from @Paul Gray Jr:

      Hey Guys I'm also plan on investing in Ohio. Looking for more of a turn key quadplex. In a B or A neighborhood. I plan on using FHA . If you have any properties please don't hesitate to reach out.


       Hey Paul! Just a heads up, with 3-4 units, you'll need to pass the self-sufficiency test. The rents from all units will need to cover 100% of your proposed monthly payment. I've talked to a few folks lately who didn't know about this, so figured I'd mention it! Feel free to connect. 


       Could you expand on this a bit and provide an example of what you mean?

      With a 3-4 unit property, the rents have to cover 100%+ of the monthly payment. So if your payment is $3k, the net rents between the 4 units need to cover that.

      Are you talking about FHA/VA/Conventional or simply DSCR?

      My comment you replied to was to the original poster regarding FHA financing. DSCR works similarly - most lenders want the rents to equal or exceed the monthly payment 

       Is w2/1099 income no longer used in addition to other units income during the underwriting process for these types of property?

      0Reply
    • Brittany MinocchiBusiness Member
      Lender · Massillon, OH · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 486 votes
      3y
      Quote from @Marc Globensky:
      Quote from @Brittany Minocchi:
      Quote from @Marc Globensky:
      Quote from @Brittany Minocchi:
      Quote from @Marc Globensky:
      Quote from @Brittany Minocchi:
      Quote from @Paul Gray Jr:

      Hey Guys I'm also plan on investing in Ohio. Looking for more of a turn key quadplex. In a B or A neighborhood. I plan on using FHA . If you have any properties please don't hesitate to reach out.


       Hey Paul! Just a heads up, with 3-4 units, you'll need to pass the self-sufficiency test. The rents from all units will need to cover 100% of your proposed monthly payment. I've talked to a few folks lately who didn't know about this, so figured I'd mention it! Feel free to connect. 


       Could you expand on this a bit and provide an example of what you mean?

      With a 3-4 unit property, the rents have to cover 100%+ of the monthly payment. So if your payment is $3k, the net rents between the 4 units need to cover that.

      Are you talking about FHA/VA/Conventional or simply DSCR?

      My comment you replied to was to the original poster regarding FHA financing. DSCR works similarly - most lenders want the rents to equal or exceed the monthly payment 

       Is w2/1099 income no longer used in addition to other units income during the underwriting process for these types of property?

      It is, but the property still has to be able to pay its own mortgage basically. And market rents are used from all units, even the owner occupied unit. 
      [email protected]330-354-6590
      Brittany Minocchi - Barrett Financial Group, LLC522 Reviews
      View Page
      0Reply
    • Marc Globensky
      OP
      Property Manager · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2021 · 39 posts · 22 votes
      3y
      Quote from @Brittany Minocchi:
      Quote from @Marc Globensky:
      Quote from @Brittany Minocchi:
      Quote from @Marc Globensky:
      Quote from @Brittany Minocchi:
      Quote from @Marc Globensky:
      Quote from @Brittany Minocchi:
      Quote from @Paul Gray Jr:

      Hey Guys I'm also plan on investing in Ohio. Looking for more of a turn key quadplex. In a B or A neighborhood. I plan on using FHA . If you have any properties please don't hesitate to reach out.


       Hey Paul! Just a heads up, with 3-4 units, you'll need to pass the self-sufficiency test. The rents from all units will need to cover 100% of your proposed monthly payment. I've talked to a few folks lately who didn't know about this, so figured I'd mention it! Feel free to connect. 


       Could you expand on this a bit and provide an example of what you mean?

      With a 3-4 unit property, the rents have to cover 100%+ of the monthly payment. So if your payment is $3k, the net rents between the 4 units need to cover that.

      Are you talking about FHA/VA/Conventional or simply DSCR?

      My comment you replied to was to the original poster regarding FHA financing. DSCR works similarly - most lenders want the rents to equal or exceed the monthly payment 

       Is w2/1099 income no longer used in addition to other units income during the underwriting process for these types of property?

      It is, but the property still has to be able to pay its own mortgage basically. And market rents are used from all units, even the owner occupied unit. 

       So its a double qualification? Does this still apply if the buyer qualifies for the mortgage by themselves without the rent?

      0Reply
    • Bob S.
      Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
      2y
      Quote from @Marc Globensky:

      Hey my fellow investors,

      I'm looking for a new market to break into. Phoenix is over saturated with investors and deals no longer make sense. 

      I currently own 7 rental units 3 in Indianapolis, IN and 4 in Killeen, TX. 

      I've been watching other investors on Youtube and what not talk about OH cities as a place to go but am incredibly skeptical when i do market research and see 5000-30000 2-4 units down to their studs with ARVs' of 180,000.00.  Additionally, the inventory there is larger than personally what i feel is healthy for an economy with a supply shortage??? idk I've never lived there nor visited. anyone in the area want to shed some light on this area? is it like south phoenix, AZ or Detroit, MI... Like whats up?


       I have done 100s and 100s there, is there a question. ?

      0Reply
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