Best way to generate cashflow with $400,000

Best way to generate cashflow with $400,000

Platteville, WI · Member since 2018 · 15 posts · 8 votes

I am seeking input from experienced MF investors. Seeking advice on best way to get started with $450,000 in savings and $100,000 in home equity.

My name is Ryan. My wife and I are looking to get back into real estate investment after a disastrous experience during the 2008 meltdown. We had nightmare property management problems from a distance and lost about $45k between a SF and our duplex. Needless to say we are a little gun shy. We are also in a slightly unusual situation. Neither of us have a W2 job. My wife is a stay at home mom and homeschools our 4 kids. I started a business in 2018 and have faced several speed bumps along the way, so am not yet taking any income from the business, although it has a lot of potential. We took a risk given the potential reward of the business and have been living off of our savings and IRA. Unfortunately, due to supply chain issues due to Covid the business potential profitability has been greatly reduced recently so I am exploring whether I should put all my effort into real estate investing instead.

Additionally, one of the hurdles we faced the last few years is that my wife has metastatic breast cancer in her brain. As a result we were able to collect an early death benefit on her life insurance and now have about $450,000 in savings (currently invested in the stock market and bonds), plus about $100,000 of equity in our home. We would like to invest this money to generate cash flow, and grow our equity over time, but are struggling to narrow down the multitude of options. We also have to be somewhat careful with this money as it is supposed to be there if my wife dies to help support the kids.

We live in a rural area of southwest Wisconsin, although we are just outside Platteville which is a small college town (pop.~12,000). We could probably find some local properties that cashflow well, but Wisconsin's rural counties are all projected to have near zero, to negative, population growth from 2020-2030. Seems risky to me. We are primarily looking at either larger college towns (pop.>60,000), or Midwest cities that have experienced sustained growth such as Des Moines, IA, Madison, WI, etc. 

Our long term interest is to get into larger multifamily (10-20+ units), but concerned that putting all the money into one larger building as our first investment might be too risky. Alternatively, spreading it out over multiple smaller SF/Duplex/Triplex/Quads would allow us to ease our way into it, but would also slow us down from just getting to the larger buildings we are ultimately interested in. Also, my prior experience was that it was difficult to get a property manager for only one or two smaller properties, whereas, it is much easier to get a manager for a 10-20 unit building. 

So many people say get started small, others say just go big from the start. Any advice from experienced investors as to how to get started?

Sorry for the long post.

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Investor · Malakoff, TX · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
4y

When you start small your mistakes will be small. Like your previous real estate loss.. When you start big your mistakes will be big. 

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Lender · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2020 · 109 posts · 115 votes
    4y

    The cool (and sometimes annoying) thing about real estate investing is that you CAN go a million ways about it. I'll add a third option which would be to start off with a 2-4 unit property, and then re-assess where you should go. My first duplex was a great opportunity to start thinking of systems, build relationships, and learn more about investing. Then with what I learned, I got a 4 unit. Now that I have 6 units and am putting systems in place for that, soon an 8 unit purchase won't seem as daunting anymore. You could of course choose to be even more aggressive about it if you wanted to and it made sense to. Start with a 4 and then go for a 12 for example. 

    Real estate is a long-term game for a lot of us, and it seems like that's how you see it too. I'm not saying it's better to take it slow, I just don't think that's a bad decision for some people (based off your personality, financial situation, goals, timeframe, etc). You'd be surprised how fast you can start growing after a year if you take it that direction and make it your top priority and think of ways to become better, and all you need is to just get started and make some type of progress. Just my 2c based off my experiences and situation :) 

  • Investor · Evanston, IL · Member since 2012 · 18 posts · 4 votes
    4y

    I live in Chicago MSA. have cash, and am looking for a MF property. Are you interested in having a further conversation to compare our thoughts? 

  • Platteville, WI · Member since 2018 · 15 posts · 8 votes
    4y

    David, Thank you for your thoughts. I appreciate it. Yes, that is another option I have considered. I have also considered the BRRR strategy so as to not just use up all the capital right away, but I think that is similar to getting into value add multifamily and then refinancing, just smaller scale. I have already had a duplex and have no problem with managing larger units, but would likely just go straight to using a property manager instead given my interest in long term passive income. So many things to consider. Definitely struggling with analysis paralysis!

  • Platteville, WI · Member since 2018 · 15 posts · 8 votes
    4y

    Marv, I sent you a private message.

  • Jonathan KlemmBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Contractor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    Hey @Ryan D. - First off congrats for getting such significant savings stashed away!

    I know exactly where you live up in Platteville my two "brothers" played football there about 5 & 7 years ago.  Definitely you typical Wisconsin college down, but I loved going up there for games.

    If you have interest in 10-20 units I can definitely help if you had any interest in investing here in Chicago.  We have an amazing team built for every aspect of multifamily investing.  

    If you can get started and go big from the get-go......why wouldn't you?  Happy to help in any fashion.  @Marv Edelstein same goes for you if you have cash ready to deploy.

  • Investor · Malakoff, TX · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    When you start small your mistakes will be small. Like your previous real estate loss.. When you start big your mistakes will be big. 

  • Platteville, WI · Member since 2018 · 15 posts · 8 votes
    4y

    @Jonathan Klemm, that's great that your brother's played here. They have a great football program. Plus, as a Bear's fan you should be familiar with Platteville being the Bear's old practice facility for years. I have been here since 2014. Nice town, but limited investment potential. Thanks for the offer. 

    To your point about if you can get started going big from the get go, I think @Eric James summarized my hesitation well. I was recently looking very seriously at an 18 unit down in Iowa, but someone else got it under contract before I was able to get on top of it. For now, Chicago is not in my target area, although I understand the potential. Thanks for reaching out.

  • John CasmonPro Member
    Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y

    Hey @Ryan D., sorry to hear about your wife's cancer, and imagine that has some impact on your ultimate investing strategy. There are so many options, that I would start with getting clarity on how much time you want to commit to RE Investing and what your risk tolerance is at this point. If you just want cashflow, you can invest in rentals, syndications, or even become a private lender. Since you were burned before, you can either learn from those mistakes or repeat them. 

    However, if you are considering a career change and making this a business, you'll need to figure out what you're good at and what you enjoy. 

  • Platteville, WI · Member since 2018 · 15 posts · 8 votes
    4y

    @John Casmon thank you. Your first sentence stated things quite well. I think that is part of the struggle. Thinking about our risk tolerance is a good suggestion. 

    We have definitely learned a lot from those prior mistakes. We didn't really know much when we bought a duplex and didn't know how to analyze a property. We bought high. It was going well when we lived near by and could self manage. When we had to move away, we initially struggled to find a good property manager, but after a few failures finally found a good one. Unfortunately, he died within 3 weeks of finding out he had pancreatic cancer. He sold his business to another property manager who had no idea what he was doing. It took the new manager 6 months to find a renter for a vacant unit, but then she didn't pay her first month's rent! And he refused to give her the proper notices to make sure we could follow the eviction process if needed. We tried to find a new property manager, but that was a real challenge for a single duplex. Now I know there are a lot more options than I was aware of back then, but we ended up having to sell at a significant loss in 2008. I wish we could have kept it because it would be cash flowing pretty well by now. 

    Thanks for the input.

  • Don SpaffordPro Member
    Investor · Idaho Falls, ID · Member since 2016 · 912 posts · 629 votes
    4y

    It depends on how "hands on" you want to be. First of all, in my opinion, it is VERY hard right now to find great properties. Plenty of "good" ones out there, but I search for high returns and low risk. Lots of competition right now. Even in the world of syndications. I am not satisfied with average returns. For that reason I am now on two different teams that can bring higher than average returns. That is where I am putting my money currently. Both essentially remove competition and we can get great deals. One focuses on new development of multi-family, and the other purchases value-add RV Campgrounds. I'd be happy to discuss both of these with you if you would like to know more. These would be completely passive for you so you can relax and enjoy your time freedom. If you need high cash flows, the campground deals we get should create enough for you to possibly retire on with that amount invested, depending on what your needs are for income. Whereas the development produces big returns in a short turn-around time. Or even better, do both, like I do. From personal experience, it is much nicer being a passive investor than active.

  • Andrew HoganPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2016 · 559 posts · 463 votes
    4y

    First off I'm sorry to hear about your wife's condition. 

    That's not the most desirable way to receive a lump sum. I'm glad that you were able to have life insurance and are thinking about investing vs spending.

    Investing into large apartment communities can take a multitude of risk off the table IF you have the right team. The more units the better so I'd push you to think bigger! All else equal, 100+ units offers more diversification and less downside risk than 10-20 units.

    Sounds like you've earned your real estate tuition with some unfortunate events in the past.
    If you invest that passively with the right operator there are deals that are yielding 10% which means 40k/yr completely passive.

    Good luck to you @Ryan D.
     

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4y

    I am sorry to hear about your wife. That must be a challenge for her and you. 

    With about 400k to invest you absolutely can buy a small MF building. I might suggest starting small an d seeing what you are wanting to do and where you want to go with this.  If you are in a college town, or if there is one close by that is always a good place to invest. You might start with a 4-10 plex and see how it fit then reevaluate in 5 years. This will give you time to learn.   I would stay away from riskier investments.  I personally think investment type properties are better than SFHs.  The way they are sold, managed and financed is just much more businesslike . 

    You will get many different responses, but be aware that many that respond are selling something and may not have your best interest at heart. :)   

  • Jim PfeiferBusiness Member
    Investor · Dublin, OH · Member since 2014 · 241 posts · 495 votes
    4y

    I think the first thing to decide is how active do you want to be? I learned that owning small multifamily and even SFH - it isn't passive. You need to manage the property manager and I never found a way to make that passive and be successful. I now invest exclusively in real estate syndications. They are long term and highly illiquid, but you are relying on a professional asset manager to provide the returns - and even in a difficult market, if you qualify them properly they will certainly do better at managing the properties than I did. If you don't want to buy yourself another job, passive investing might be a good option for you. There are plenty of Communities that can help you get started!

  • Platteville, WI · Member since 2018 · 15 posts · 8 votes
    4y

    @Andrew Hogan thank you for your comments and kind response. I have thought about syndication. It is not where I am leaning at the moment, but definitely something to keep in mind. I think your comment about the reduced risk with 100+ units makes sense though. I do like the higher return potential with a little more active involvement on a more self managed investment however. 

    @Mary M. thank you for your thoughts and response. Your comment on SFH vs 4-10 plex makes sense and aligns with what I was already feeling. Also, thanks for the kind warning. ;)

    @Jim Pfeifer thank you for your insights based on your experiences. It is definitely something to consider. 

    I appreciate all the insights that have been shared. It is really helpful to hear these different perspectives. I would love to continue hearing from others as well. As I am sure most on here have experienced, I am also getting input from others in my life saying I should stay away from real estate as it is too risky. 

    I wonder what people's thoughts are on how much savings to put in real estate vs the stock market? Our money is currently spread across bonds and index funds mostly, but it seems like direct investment in real estate has a much better overall return than just the stock market when considering the combined cash flow, appreciation, and tax benefits. However, is it wise to be all in on real estate vs being more diversified? The equity markets seem to be a good long term growth investment, but not a place to get current cash flow, whereas real estate has great potential for both. 

    Thoughts? 

  • Paul MoorePro Member
    Commercial Real Estate Fund Manager · Lynchburg, VA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y

    Hi @Ryan D.. I share others’ thoughts and prayers for your wife.  You might want to check out “The Gerson Therapy” which is an amazing effective cancer cure.  

    I agree with @Jim Pfeifer. I’m in my 3rd decade as a real estate investor and my wife has had health struggles and we’ve homeschooled 4 kids. I HIGHLY recommend you passionately focus your time and efforts on your business and family and leverage your capital to invest passively. You could choose private lending to house flippers, a syndication, or a fund. 

    Sure, you won’t get the thrill of the chase, but the benefits to your life and family will be incalculable.  And I genuinely believe you’ll make more money and build more wealth.  

    You can actually tap into a community of passionate passive investors with Jim Pfeifer’s Left Field Investors. Happy Investing! 

  • Platteville, WI · Member since 2018 · 15 posts · 8 votes
    4y

    @Paul Moore, thank you for your comments, prayers and recommendations. I appreciate it. 

    We have definitely heard of the Gerson Therapy. In fact, we had a neighbor with breast cancer that used this method and a long term family friend that also used it. Unfortunately both passed away from their cancer. We have chosen to use a mixture of traditional and non-traditional methods for treatments, and so far my wife is doing well. We are very thankful to God for all the blessings that we have been given.

    Given your experience with your family, I take your comments very seriously. I appreciate that very much, and will definitely take them into consideration. It is always helpful to hear from other people who have more experience. Thank you. Also, I'll have to look into Jim Pfeifer's Left Field Investors. He didn't mention that in his post.

  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2018 · 352 posts · 175 votes
    4y

    @Ryan D. Hey Ryan, wild story, wish the best for you and your family. Got a couple of ideas for you. If you are currently renting then my first move would be to get you into something you own where the rent from the other units offsets or eliminates your mortgage payment. This will provide you with security and reduce your financial stress while you try to stabilize your regular income. In general, the midwest is more of a cash flow play than an appreciation play. Without steady income getting a loan will be hard so look to see what sort of 2-4 units are in your range of affordability and just pay in cash. You can refinance money out later after your income stabilizes. Feel free to reach out if you need someone to bounce ideas off of. 

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