Homeless Issues

Homeless Issues

Commercial Real Estate Broker · Tampa, FL · Member since 2014 · 216 posts · 86 votes

We have a small retail strip in Tampa.  It has been a real challenge because of the homeless.  It is actually in a decent area, close to Carrollwood, but it is also close enough to suit case city that the homeless can just walk to the property.  It has become a favorite stopping point, b/c there is a Dunkin Donuts on a shared outparcel.  They dumpster dive at night and get donuts and bagels out of the bin, bring them over to our strip center and have a party.  You can imagine the mess left there every morning.  They also intimidate the hell out of the tenants, most of which are office workers.  

Human security is very expensive and the size of the property does not warrant the cost.   Alarm companies are not allowed (by regulation, apparently) to put alarms on the outside.

I am thinking about getting a motion detector and install an outdoor speaker myself, with noxious noise.  If they come underneath the over hang, the noxious noise will start playing.

 We have tried everything...from asking them nicely, to calling the police (the police won't even come out any more for the homeless calls) and leaving a barking dog in a vacant space at night where they like to hang out (they just move away from the dog and find another cozy spot).  

Does anyone have any suggestions?  It is killing occupancy in the center.   

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Investor · Wichita, KS · Member since 2015 · 769 posts · 279 votes
11y

Could you find a more creative solution such as asking Dunkin Donuts if you could purchase their remaining donuts at the end of the day (at a steep discount of course) -- talk to a local shelter close by that maybe they could come pick up the donuts, take them there for the folks to eat, then talk to the people hanging out there late at night - let them know what you are doing?

I'd think this might be a cheaper solution and would avoid creating enemies and help some people in the process.  I'd think there would be a better way than trying to use "force" or intimidation tactics to get them to move on.  I'd think Dunkin would be glad to get rid of the inventory even at a steep discount, it would help them eliminate a mess and you at the same time...the cost to purchase the leftover food is probably way less than installing these extra security measures, not to mention the goodwill I'm sure you might receive in return.

Just a thought.

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  • Visalia-Fresno, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 863 votes
    11y

    Ramp up the security for 1-2 month to get them bums situated in another property.  Then back off the security.  

  • Investor · PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 602 votes
    11y

    Broker a deal between Dunkin Donuts and the local police force

  • Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y

    My dad used to own a security/access control company. He had a client with the exact same issue. The guy had a car lot that was getting destroyed. What I would recommend is exactly what he did. 

    Install Red/Blue strobe lights on the exterior of the building. He set up laser "trips" that would trigger them. Thing of like in your garage. He also had a loud speaker that when triggered would give a warning and 10 seconds to get off the property before a full blown alarm/police call for trespassing was placed.

  • Commercial Real Estate Broker · Tampa, FL · Member since 2014 · 216 posts · 86 votes
    11y

    Thanks for the comments everyone.  

    @Ryan Dossey I have had trouble finding a creative security person in Tampa.  The ones I have spoken to have their packages and can't think outside of the box. 

  • Investor · Wichita, KS · Member since 2015 · 769 posts · 279 votes
    11y

    Could you find a more creative solution such as asking Dunkin Donuts if you could purchase their remaining donuts at the end of the day (at a steep discount of course) -- talk to a local shelter close by that maybe they could come pick up the donuts, take them there for the folks to eat, then talk to the people hanging out there late at night - let them know what you are doing?

    I'd think this might be a cheaper solution and would avoid creating enemies and help some people in the process.  I'd think there would be a better way than trying to use "force" or intimidation tactics to get them to move on.  I'd think Dunkin would be glad to get rid of the inventory even at a steep discount, it would help them eliminate a mess and you at the same time...the cost to purchase the leftover food is probably way less than installing these extra security measures, not to mention the goodwill I'm sure you might receive in return.

    Just a thought.

  • Nicole A.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y

    Steep discount or just donating. I hear of lots of places, to include donut places, donating their day-old good.

  • Commercial Real Estate Broker · Tampa, FL · Member since 2014 · 216 posts · 86 votes
    11y

    Dunkin is a contributing factor and they are on a food donation program.  But, they are not the only issue.  Both Dunkin manager and I have had conversations with some of the homeless.  The ones that hang out there are really not that interested in dealing with a shelter, which is why they sleep behind our building.    

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    11y

    I can't give legal advice but it sounds like the cops are not enforcing the laws on the books.

    You can't have your center impacted because they want to be "lazy with the laws".

    If they are sleeping on your property they are trespassing plain and simple. The cops wanting to turn a blind eye is selective enforcement of the law.

    You might need an attorney at this point to push the issue and get something done. Any solution will cost money at this point. Is it cheaper to lose all tenants and have a vacant center??

    Here the cops would try to get the people help and if they would not take the help they would remove them from the area. We do not allow those kinds of things in our areas.  

  • Commercial Real Estate Broker · Tampa, FL · Member since 2014 · 216 posts · 86 votes
    11y

    homelessness is a massive problem in Tampa.  There does not appear to be a silver bullet solution and everyone has fatigue in dealing with it.  Resources are the primary issue, or lack thereof....mostly human resources.  There are just not enough bodies to deal with it...not at the police, not at the shelter level, not in the community.  But, the issue is much more nuanced than just human resources. 

      The main issue is most have mental illness, alcohol and/or drug problems.  They don't want help and you can't incarcerate them all. There are too many here.   The police focus their attention on the ones committing violent crimes. At the end of the day, the  homeless help orgs try to deal with those who actually want help and that is where the resources are applied. I understand everyone's stress point. I would hope there is a solution for my center or at least a compromise, before going down a legal path. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Plant City, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 379 votes
    11y

    I love @Shane H. idea, but understand sometimes things aren't that easy.  Would locking the dumpster help?  It sounds like these guys are not going to react well to you trying to be forceful so most of these ideas most likely won't work.  I don't think it would help but maybe someone should ask them why they choose your area.  That could help you figure out how to move what they are after somewhere else so they will follow.  Maybe they like that it's dark and easy for sleeping so you set up bright LED lights all night?  I'm very interested in hearing what solves this issue.

  • Real Estate Investor · Orient, OH · Member since 2009 · 36 posts · 3 votes
    11y

    Hire some 20 something year olds to harrass them at night, create ur own cheap security.  Something along those lines.  

  • Investor · Wichita, KS · Member since 2015 · 769 posts · 279 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Adrian Smude:

    I love @Shane H. idea, but understand sometimes things aren't that easy.  Would locking the dumpster help? 

    Thank you.  Presently in the field I'm in I always need to find what motivates people in order to reach a mutually satisfactory agreement.  I think as I work to transition to RE full time it will help serve me well.

    I'd really love to know if a solution can be reached as well.

    To the original poster -- have you spent much time talking to these guys/gals to get to know them or their motivations?   I'd think if you spent some time talking/primarily listening you might be able to find a mutually beneficial agreement.  Even if it takes a little money out of your pocket, has to be far less than "going to war" with them using security, or other forms of deterrents.  Not to mention could be considered a good deed in the process.  Maybe I'm off base, but think it would be worth a try.  If you know the time they show up, buy all the remaining donuts, have a couple thermoses of coffee ready and wait for them.  Your kindness might blow their mind.

    Could you go to Wal Mart or your local sporting goods store, ask them to donate a tent or two or a backpack or simply buy a couple?   Another crazy solution, but maybe it would encourage them to stay somewhere else and wouldnt cost much.  Maybe find some used ones off of Craigslist.

    Interesting topic -- I'll be following along.

  • Investor · Bristol, TN · Member since 2015 · 19 posts · 3 votes
    11y

    I feel for you Eric.  Anyone who hasn't lived in Florida doesn't realize just how many homeless people there actually are.  Florida is the homeless mecca of the U.S.  I would lean towards locking any and all dumpsters and setting up alarms that will at least encourage them to go else where.

    Good luck and please keep us posted on what ever you decide to do.

    I'm sure it will not be an easy road.

  • Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2015 · 13 posts · 2 votes
    11y

    Bright obnoxious lights and lots of annoying sounds.

    Look up Power Tools: Sound Effects on iTunes.  Lots of annoying, construction like sounds from saws to jackhammers.  No one can sleep through that.  Should be able to set these up on a timer.

  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y

    I thought food places were required to lock their dumpsters or dispose of food in a way such that people could not dumpster dive?  Isn't that a law or health ordinance?

  • Commercial Real Estate Broker · Tampa, FL · Member since 2014 · 216 posts · 86 votes
    11y

    @shane In an ideal world, there is a collaborative solution.  I, however, am past that. There is not a readily apparent practical collaborative solution to manage all of the variables and ever changing faces.  Even if I did have the time and resources, I am not convinced throwing more time and effort in to managing a collaborative solution would have  much effect. 

    @Dawn Anastasi we have no such laws that I am aware of. Grocery stores are particularly rich targets.

    Thanks for all the comments. I found a tech who has had some success in the neighborhood.  He is coming out to inspect the property next week and do an evaluation. I will come back to the thread in a few weeks and let you all know what happened.  

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    11y

    I guess you would have to see what the homeless find attractive and work to change that to where they no longer like it.

    I didn't know parts of Florida had such huge homelessness issues. I will definitely add that to my due diligence checklist for my syndication deals from now on as it seems to be a huge issue.   

  • Investor · Fishers, IN · Member since 2012 · 520 posts · 499 votes
    11y

    Eric,

    I have dealt with this as well at our office building.  We are located adjacent to the rail line, and they set up tents on the other side of the fence in the woods.  THe "residents" then cut holes in our fence, and come into our building to use the bathroom and steal what they can. 

    Working with the railroad, or in your case, dunkin donuts, is futile.  Same with the Police. 

    We used loud noises, and Skunk Gel.   We ordered it from Europe.   Works well for us to get them to move on down the road, but not sure you want the back of your building to smell like a skunk.  HOWEVER, Adding a little bit to the dumpster may keep them from wanting to eat the donuts?   

    The stuff works Great! 

    Here's where I found it:  http://www.studiolonline.net/blog/repelling-the-ho...

    And before everybody starts to rail on me for being a heartless, capitalist pig,  I spend 1 to 2 weeks per year on the mission field building houses in Mexico and the Dominican Republic.  My family and I also regularly serve at 2 different shelters in my city, and 10% of my company's profits go towards helping the most impoverished people/communities in the world through Compassion International. 

    However, when certain homeless people begin to trespass and destroy my property and steal from me and my tenants - then I have to make it unpleasant for them to do so on my property.  

    Good Luck! 

  • Investor · El Dorado Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y
    Extremely bright motion lights with a cover so they can't be broken. The On guard startle model is very bright.
  • Glendale, CA · Member since 2013 · 303 posts · 67 votes
    11y

    I had the same issue , where they'd do graffiti at night and hang out in dark spots. I spent some money on a full lighting upgrade so every part of the center was completely lit up from sundown to sunrise. The problem has been diminished and I'm real happy with the results. my electric bill went up , but it's okay.

  • Investor · Wichita Falls, TX · Member since 2014 · 382 posts · 123 votes
    11y

    My boyfriend heard a story about a church in San Francisco that installed sprinklers in the doorway to keep homeless off the steps. It seems there was a back lash (along with permits needed and watering restrictions) and they are going to remove them. There were  homeless that still stayed though, using raingear to keep the water off!!

    Don't know if sprinklers will work in your area.

    The skunk spray idea in the dumpster sounded pretty good...along with locking it.

  • Commercial Real Estate Broker · Tampa, FL · Member since 2014 · 216 posts · 86 votes
    10y

    @Franklin Romine .....I just wanted to follow up and give people an update.  Your suggestion about security was the most effective.  We had security come 4 nights a week (randomly, so they could not tell a pattern) and eventually, they moved on.  We used the security for several months.

    Skunk gel in the dumpster worked.  It only last for about 2 weeks though, so I had to place it a couple of times a month.  But, that seemed to be effective in keeping them out of the dumpster and dragging garbage out and leaving it in the parking lot.  (the garbage men threatened to stop taking our trash though, as they complained about the stench :-)  )  

    It has been about 6-7 months since we last had the security out there, and might have to start again, as they are drifting back on to the property again.  But, a month or two a month of security does the trick. 

    Thanks all for your suggestions !  

  • Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2013 · 134 posts · 74 votes
    10y

    Walk up to them and when they are about to say something, ask them if they could spare a dollar and a cigarette.  Do it enough and they will move to somewhere where are not being annoyed.

    That won't work but it would be fun.  I would go to the council and explain the problem and see how they want to address it.  You aren't the only one having this problem. Join others.  The city should have loitering oridinances that can be enforced.

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