Success or failure with turnkey properties

Success or failure with turnkey properties

Real Estate Agent · Circleville, OH · Member since 2008 · 633 posts · 488 votes

Every so often, i look at various companies that are selling turnkey properties. It interests me as an alternative to straight rental management, especially if someone could provide the turnkeys to purchasers AND offer management services, that way a up-front larger profit could be produced on the property sale to investor, then ongoing cash from management services.

However, one thing that strikes me as very odd is the way that turnkey real estate is priced. 

Some turnkey RE companies list 'income' on property as gross rents minus taxes and insurance, no other costs. Others include management, but not repairs & ongoing maintenance, others have no vacancy allowance. They start off at a 10%-12% stated rate of return, but once I add in all the other fees that a landlord should expect (R&M, Vacancy, Management, etc) they look less and less stellar, and more worrisome. Some of them provide next to no cashflow per month after debt service, or a measly $100 or so per month, and by that point I wonder if for the investor its even worth the effort.

So, for those that have bought turnkey properties (Mostly those who have bought several), how do you feel about the process in the end? Did you meet or exceed your expectations, and the estimated income from the property seller? Did they meet their stated rates as well? 

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
10y

@Brandon Schlichter  not sure were Circleville Ohio is.. but that's a clever name

you should be able to buy all sorts of rental properties there by your self .

The turnkey model is more appropriate for west coast investors who UNLIKE you cannot drive to a plethora of homes that cash flow with 20% down.. regarless of who is rehabbing them or reselling them. .. look no further than your own backyard

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  • Real Estate Coach · Venice Beach, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    I've always bought turnkeys and I love them. But to your point-- yes there are a lot of companies who don't advertise accurate calculations, but lots do too. I automatically don't trust the companies who leave them off and only work with ones who do (far from my only criteria with a company, but it's a huge red flag). 

    So it's not the turnkey model in general that does that, it's just certain companies. Plenty of them are fine.

  • Rental Property Investor · Rio Rancho, NM · Member since 2013 · 314 posts · 816 votes
    10y

    @Brandon Schlichter

    I recently published a post here on the forums that went over exactly what you described - many turnkey companies (maybe even most?) inflate their cash flow projections by understating vacancies, expenses and maintenance and overstating price appreciation and rental income increase.

    That's why I always advocate you run your own numbers and not go by what is listed on the seller's website. 

    With that being said, I think you can find good turnkey deals, but not all of them will be that.

  • Curt DavisBusiness Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Memphis, TN · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    @Anton Ivanov

    Usually when we post a home for sale I do not include any % for vacancy or repairs but do state for the viewer to factor in their own as I just want to provide the gross calculations for them and then they can do whatever they choose with anything else.  I also never account for rental increase bc no one can ever know if that will happen or not.  

    Thanks for sharing

    Curt Davis - KAIZEN Realty538 Reviews
  • Investor · Cambridge, MA · Member since 2014 · 92 posts · 87 votes
    10y
    Curt Davis Can you expand on the logic of leaving vacancy & maintenance blank? Do you include line items for them with indications that investors should use their own assumptions, or are the line items omitted entirely? As a turnkey investor that intends to build a moderate (15-20 property) portfolio, I immediately hold a provider that includes a complete and conservative pro forma in high esteem. If they run in-house property management, I really appreciate it when they provide actual data for vacancies and maintenance for their properties under management. It suggests that they understand that setting and meeting realistic expectations is likelier to keep me buying over time than sugar-coating a deal and masking inevitable expenses. Any investor should be doing diligence and their own modeling on property values, rents, vacancies, maintenance, CapEx, etc. But to me, it is a sign of credibility to include a like item for each income *and* expense driver.
  • Real Estate Agent · Circleville, OH · Member since 2008 · 633 posts · 488 votes
    10y

    @Keith Anderson - That's all what concerns me.

    If sellers are providing a physical inspection with write-ups concerning all recent repairs and lifespan of currently installed items, it may make sense to have a MINIMAL (But not a non-existent) R&M budget for a property. However when I scan these websites, they lack both R&M as well as any sort of reporting on what has been replaced in a property. That concerns me most of these kinds of lower-end, B & C class properties are going to have serious repairs if they're older. And in those cases the quality of contractors PMs have on tap could absolutely kill a deal.

  • Curt DavisBusiness Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Memphis, TN · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    @Keith Anderson

    I understand what you are saying and I have battled with the notion as to do I show a vacancy and repair % or not.  Over the years I have come to the conclusion that even new investors factor them in but everyone uses their own %ages so I only provide the Gross figures but I DO make note in the description to make sure to account for them.  

    Also, when I provide the monthly vacancy average that our management company usually operates on, that number is on average 4.5%-6% for any given month but no investor will use that for their proforma, most go with 8%-10% to be on the conservative side. 

    @Brandon Schlichter

    We provide a scope of work for all of our homes we renovate.  We make sure the investor knows what we are going to do or have done up front.  Also 99% of our clients get home inspections to double check the work that was done to the home.

    Great questions!!!!

    Curt Davis - KAIZEN Realty538 Reviews
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Brandon Schlichter  not sure were Circleville Ohio is.. but that's a clever name

    you should be able to buy all sorts of rental properties there by your self .

    The turnkey model is more appropriate for west coast investors who UNLIKE you cannot drive to a plethora of homes that cash flow with 20% down.. regarless of who is rehabbing them or reselling them. .. look no further than your own backyard

  • Real Estate Agent · Circleville, OH · Member since 2008 · 633 posts · 488 votes
    10y

      @Jay Hinrichs - I am actively buying property here. My problem is, and continues to be obtaining enough cash to buy all these deals that come forward. Thus my question about turnkey - Not as an investor, but as a seller/manager of the properties.

    I have been looking at these various models that companies seem to be using, and it is hard for me to grasp offering "A fantastic 8% ROI" with really sketchy numbers and alot of problems that can arise with run-of-the mill rental properties.

    Granted it's not something I'm running after wholeheartedly, but in the end my appetite for rentals in this area is alot higher than anyone around, so I'm trying to come up with unique funding options, even if it means selling a few to fund more. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Brandon Schlichter  OK not sure I get your point.... if you don't have money to buy more properties whats your interest in turn key...  Becoming like Ali and brokering them for a commission??? to earn money to buy more in your own town ?  just become a real estate agent like Ali is and go at it. plenty of money to be made brokering any kind of real estate in the country.. I have been doing it 42 years treated me well all these years.. NO risk you just make commissions..

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