Developer friendly Planning Departments in SoCal?

Question

After a frustrating experience today I was wondering where investors have had the best overall experience with a local planning department in or around LA/Orange County. Are there any areas you refuse to invest in because of the city planning department powers that be are just impractical to work with?

I have a Triplex (zoned for 3 units) in the city of Glendale, and there's a few 10+ unit buildings a couple of doors down with the exact same lot sizes, so I wanted to see if there is a potential development opportunity. Initially I called a local architect for some insight on what could/could not be done but he advised me to go straight to the planning department to get some feedback.

When I sat down with a "planning advisor" with no paperwork in hand it's pretty obvious I'm not there with the hope of jumping in a bulldozer the next day, I was just looking for advice. all the lots on my street are the same size land, there are a few big apartments on the street, could I potentially rezone and build up? If not could I reconfigure the interior of the units? Basically what would be the best avenue to pursue without wasting time and money. Long story short he was not listening to my queries, cutting me off mid sentence, kept saying I needed a physical plan in front of me, at which point I mentioned he was being condescending and unhelpful, got up and left and came away without any answers.

From what I've heard Glendale planning has a reputation for being notoriously difficult to get anything approved, so where are areas that are more lenient when it comes to property development? Pasadena? Van Nuys? Riverside?

Jay Hinrichs · Answer

the name of your post.. Developer friendly planning departments.. is a Oxymoron. you learn to live with these folks and it can get super frustrating.

Jonathan Orr · Answer

So. Cal can be a real hit or miss when it comes to multi development. You will find communities that are dense (specifically more towards LA) it becomes harder because multi family development is the most profitable for developers and can be not as profitable to cities when compared to other types of developments.I think with a tough city like Glendale it would be best to join up with a developer who has experience or someone who has worked with the city in the past. Also, when going in dry to a city it is best to know as much about the property as possible. Things such as zoning, density limits, height restrictions, etc are very helpful because it not only shows that you have great interest in the property but you also appear more professional, all of this can be found on the city website. On the other hand, some planners just don't want to work and may be short with you.Glendale is a good area and I am sure if you can swing a development it can be profitable.Don't be afraid to build that team (architects, engineers, developers, GC's) to partner with. It can help move a project forward and also help you learn more.Best of Luck! PM me is you have questions. I haven't done a deal in Glendale but have development experience in So. Cal.

Account Closed · Answer

Maybe "Developer Tolerant" would of been a better term. I sympathise with anyone who has to deal with these people on a regular basis, it must be somewhere between the DMV and hell in terms of customer service.

Account Closed · Answer

Thanks Jonathon, its frustrating because I have done my research, looked at every lot in the area, reviewed all the zoning guidelines, researched rents and construction costs, but because I didn't have any paperwork with me the planner didn't want to hear me out or give any advice.What if I went there with plans for a 10 unit building, spending hundreds or thousands on an architect to draw it out, only to be told the neighbor with 3 units had tried the same thing but was continuously rejected. Surely they should be able to advise and encourage local homeowners on how to develop their properties to benefit everyone in an area where there is a shortfall supply of housing. It's a backwards system that will only discourage people who actually want to improve properties/neighborhoods because of all the hoops they are made to jump through.Anywho I'll be back there tomorrow to speak to another advisor (with lots of paper work and a pencil on the ear) and see how that goes, thanks!

Kevin Fox · Answer

Hey Account ClosedPlanning committees certainly have a way of making things MUCH more complicated than they need to be, sometimes seemingly just to make your life more difficult.However, a large part of what sets 'great' developers apart from those who are just 'good' is their ability to maneuver the city's planning process.It will always be a pain; but it's one of the neccassary evils in this business and, as such, is something you should not overlook mastering.

Jonathan Orr · Answer

Account Closed you are right, going in with plans is foolish. why spend the money if they wont let you do it. it may have just been that planner, caught them on a bad day. i would set up a meeting with a planner rather than just walking in. if they set time aside rather than at the counter with other things to do they may be open to talking more. have you ever done any sort of development before? that may be a turn off for them. that is why i mentioned partners.also you mentioned in your original post that it is zoned 3 units. even though lots may be the same size doesnt mean just because they did it that they will let you. you should find out when those 10 units were built. if it was a while ago the city may have been more friendly to developers.from the limited info you have given, i am assuming it is a R-3. to up it to 10 would require a zone change, that is a very long and expensive process. if it is zoned UP to 10 units then you may have a easier path.

Jay Hinrichs · Answer

@Jonathan Orr that's quite a coincidence.. my property is 4 acres at the entrance to the Graton Casino... one of those path of progress plays.. I bought it 25 years ago as un buildable land for next to nothing ( 25k) held it all these years paid those big tax's of 250 a year.. LOL. but I always thought something would happen being on a freeway over change main road and right behind home depot.We got swept up with a bigger developer who is doing 50 acre across the street from us and directly in front of the casino.. so they paid for the EIR and specific plan and we just came in as stake holders.they pre zoned us mixed use resi.. and as you know in RP there is NO new resi.. so I thinking maybe a little lite office shop on bottom and stack as many condo's as I can on top LOL... would be my retirement project and I would move there to build it out.. but if I get an offer I would sell and 1031... as I have zero basis basically.good luck with yours... I just hope that I can see this to fruition within the 30 years I will have owned it... LOL....

Jonathan Orr · Answer

@Jay Hinrichs California municipalities typically have some level of planning meeting. However that occurs when the property has been discussed on a very Macro view. I also have a property in Rohnert Park that I am developing! The former stadium lands site. For that property we had general ideas of what we wanted to do in terms of types of assets. however we didn't spend the money to get a site plan until it was under contract. I will say that knowing the language is important in talking with planning to move the ball forward but not until we truly had a good feeling from the city on if they will accept those types of assets.That is why I mentioned emailing the head planner to set up a meeting. It gives you the perks of a private meeting without being in front of a commission.

Jay Hinrichs · Answer

@Jonathan Orr In Oregon and Washington we have pre app conferences they are mandatory.you show up with your planner and engineer a basic design.. and staff is there many times with members of each department that you will need to deal with..they then start talking about things your consultants will need to do to process your project.Its been years since I did one I CA.. however I suspect there maybe a similar process.I have a piece of dirt in Rohnert park that I have owned for 25 years its finally got brought into the city and the city is done with their specific plan.. I will probably develop this out or at least get it fully entitled so I will see how it goes there in CA... been a long time.

Manolo D. · Answer

You simply weren't talking the same language as the planner. I've dealt with planners before, that's why you need an architect or designer at minimum to "translate", most of them don't have the time to explain things to you, and you need to be more professional with your questions, I don't think he was unhelpful, he just feels that he could not understand your words as they were too broad. At least you could have existing vs planned at every floor level so you'll be on same page, walking in without any drawings and plain words will simply not bring you on the same page. Development is a tough world, sck it up and learn from it. Either you go or you don't. If you don't spend time to be at a professional level, you can pay for it.