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Updated over 4 years ago, 04/21/2020
psycho contractor pours concrete down drains because he was fired
I had a rental house in Kansas City come vacant in January and hired a handyman ..in process of trying to become a contractor (he had recently formed an LLC company)... to replace some tiles and paint...simple job and nothing complicated. He came highly recommended as he had done good work for a couple people I respect & I had used him on smaller fixes and no problems. He also used to work at a large respected property mngt company that manages 1000 properties.
My job was suppose to be done end of February and we kept giving him extensions until finally we got super fed up & gave him a hard deadline of last week. We told him we'd pay him for whatever he could finish by then but he was off the job...fired basically. The work he did was extremely poor quality and mostly having to be redone. I suspect he might have fallen into hard drug use based on the work quality of what I saw & what the neighbors told me they saw of him when he did show up in the middle of the night. I did pay him partial payment and withheld funds to fix what wasn't done or done poorly...more than fair. Although he let it be known that he thought he had done a perfect job & was completely delusional about it.
I noticed the basement drain backing up on his final day after he had just left (and before he knew what he was going to get paid) but just thought it was the drain clogged and yesterday when my plumber came out he found there were rocks and cement that had been flushed down the sewage pipes which was causing the sewage to back up in the basement. There is even cement that was poured down the tub drain and cement over the drain in the basement..every plumbing hole he could find he poured cement in. My plumber said whoever did this spent a lot of time flushing rocks and he estimated about 80 pounds of cement down the sewer. He said it had to have been flushed down the toilet to get that far in the pipes & it was a crap ton of cement and whoever did it took A LOT of time to get that much rocks and cement down the pipes. I called the police and they told me that because I don't have him on video and no one saw him do it and because he had legal permission to be in the house working on it when this was done there was nothing they could do. They wouldn't even do a report.
No one else but him had keys/access to the house so clearly it was him or someone he brought in to work with but can't imagine why anyone but him would have a motive to do this & go to this much trouble. I feel he did it to get back at me for firing him.
I am also afraid of what he is capable of doing if I publicly go after him too hard seeing how crazy he is but at the same time he's going to be out there possibly working for other investors or property management companies or homeowners etc and is a dangerous & super vindictive psychotic person.
I am interested to hear what advice you guys have for me as I'm not sure what my next step to be. Feel free to PM me as well.
I got lucky on the pipes because it could have been much much worse. We only had to jackhammer & take out a few feet in the basement and were able to clear out the rest because the toilet had been being used ...thank goodness and there was water in the line which kept the cement from hardening so we were able to clean it out instead of replacing alot of it.... I have an excellent plumber. But it's still going to cost a couple thousand or so. I believe my deductible is around 3K.
His invoice was around 8500 of which he got paid about 5500. There were items on there he tried to charge me for that even Ray Charles could see weren't done. i.e. He charged me for painting the ceilings and doors & hauling off trash which he clearly didn't touch so I deducted all the unfinished or things that needed to be redone. But the cement pipes he did his last day before he even knew what he was getting paid so I can't imagine how vindictive he would have been had I not paid him anything. He insisted on working that last day & I thought it was because he was trying to finish everything up so he could get paid in full for the job...stupid on my part.
I had used him for about a year now on smaller jobs as a handyman without issues ...this was a bigger job I was going to give him a try on. He had done someone's kitchen that I know & did a good job on it and he had done work for my previous property mngt company ..that manages over 1K properties and I knew people who worked there that had used him on their own personal properties & said he was good. I never could have imaged he would have done something this malicious.
To be honest if I think about it & take responsibility there were probably signs. I knew he smoked pot as I would smell it in the house sometimes and he like to work at night time...but at the time I told myself I didn't care as long as he did a good job. We got in a tiff with him over this job cause he was doing stupid stuff like taking the trim off the wall to paint it and then putting it on the wall and then taking it off again and then next time going there he was replacing the trim altogether and we had only told him to just paint it. From seeing how he was working with spending hours & hours doing stupid detail stuff that we didn't ask him to do and skipping over the stuff we asked him to do I suspect he got into meth. He also posted a couple days before his last day on Facebook that "I burned bridges because I CAN SWIM. Don't ever think I need you"...the designer I was working with showed it to me and was like is this directed as us??
I just hate the fact it's such the wild west with dealing with these people and that they can get away with whatever they want and so little we can do about it when it should be criminal.
@Anthony Wick Thank you for your post & for defending me. Not to be sensitive but I'm SHOCKED that so many on here liked that post & would think the contractor must have had any kind of valid reason for doing this. It's really disheartening to go through this sort of thing and then be victim blamed. So thank you :)
Originally posted by @Matthew Paul:
I would love to hear the contractors side to this event . To go to those lengths there is more to this story .
This post bothered me. 7 votes bothered me too. So I kept reading it, wondering how anyone would post such a thing and how anyone else could vote for it.
But I suppose maybe I read too far into what you wrote. I too would like to hear the contractor story. And yes, I think sometimes clients portray themselves as angels when they have behaved badly.
That said, I wonder if you believe there is ever an instance when this sort of thing would be the appropriate response to a deal gone bad?
@Laura Williams "The removing trim multiple times" thing does sound a little drug-related.
I think some of the "would like to hear the contractor's side" emotion is from people who have done contracting work. Just as you wound up with a crazy guy working for you, plenty of contractors wind up working for crazy clients.
I'm astonished about the economics of contracting sometimes. They commit to furnishing a tremendous amount of work, and what guarantee do they have that the client can/will pay? I have never had a contractor ask me for proof of funds, yet they subcontract out and commit to paying 3rd parties too. It is easy to get shafted by a client as a contractor.
None of that means that the appropriate response to any business dispute is to put concrete down a pipe.
One final note is that with COVID and people under economic stress, buyers of labor and services should be making every effort to keep their workers paid and in good shape in these months. Granted your guy had been a problem before all of this, but as a general statement, now more than ever wise investors will take care of their teams.
#2 Contractors Contributor
- Severna Park, MD
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Matthew Paul:
I would love to hear the contractors side to this event . To go to those lengths there is more to this story .
This post bothered me. 7 votes bothered me too. So I kept reading it, wondering how anyone would post such a thing and how anyone else could vote for it.
But I suppose maybe I read too far into what you wrote. I too would like to hear the contractor story. And yes, I think sometimes clients portray themselves as angels when they have behaved badly.
That said, I wonder if you believe there is ever an instance when this sort of thing would be the appropriate response to a deal gone bad?
Its not appropriate , thats what courts are for .
Originally posted by @Laura Williams:
I had a rental house in Kansas City come vacant in January and hired a handyman ..in process of trying to become a contractor (he had recently formed an LLC company)... to replace some tiles and paint...simple job and nothing complicated. He came highly recommended as he had done good work for a couple people I respect & I had used him on smaller fixes and no problems. He also used to work at a large respected property mngt company that manages 1000 properties.
My job was suppose to be done end of February and we kept giving him extensions until finally we got super fed up & gave him a hard deadline of last week. We told him we'd pay him for whatever he could finish by then but he was off the job...fired basically. The work he did was extremely poor quality and mostly having to be redone. I suspect he might have fallen into hard drug use based on the work quality of what I saw & what the neighbors told me they saw of him when he did show up in the middle of the night. I did pay him partial payment and withheld funds to fix what wasn't done or done poorly...more than fair. Although he let it be known that he thought he had done a perfect job & was completely delusional about it.
I noticed the basement drain backing up on his final day after he had just left (and before he knew what he was going to get paid) but just thought it was the drain clogged and yesterday when my plumber came out he found there were rocks and cement that had been flushed down the sewage pipes which was causing the sewage to back up in the basement. There is even cement that was poured down the tub drain and cement over the drain in the basement..every plumbing hole he could find he poured cement in. My plumber said whoever did this spent a lot of time flushing rocks and he estimated about 80 pounds of cement down the sewer. He said it had to have been flushed down the toilet to get that far in the pipes & it was a crap ton of cement and whoever did it took A LOT of time to get that much rocks and cement down the pipes. I called the police and they told me that because I don't have him on video and no one saw him do it and because he had legal permission to be in the house working on it when this was done there was nothing they could do. They wouldn't even do a report.
No one else but him had keys/access to the house so clearly it was him or someone he brought in to work with but can't imagine why anyone but him would have a motive to do this & go to this much trouble. I feel he did it to get back at me for firing him.
I am also afraid of what he is capable of doing if I publicly go after him too hard seeing how crazy he is but at the same time he's going to be out there possibly working for other investors or property management companies or homeowners etc and is a dangerous & super vindictive psychotic person.
I am interested to hear what advice you guys have for me as I'm not sure what my next step to be. Feel free to PM me as well.
I'm very sorry this happened to you.
Unfortunately, you are correct, suing this guy probably wouldn't get you much more than a hefty legal bill and an unenforceable judgment. I would just change the locks and never use him again.
had a client that had a tenant do this, never pay till work done, or increments, have a secondary that can check if out of state, sounds like bad blood between you for some reason, dont think was drugs, looks pretty competent at what he was doing, but may have been staying there, some pretty get pretty bitter, get property manager, would be cheaper and vet better long distance
File a lawsuit in small claims court for costs,damages & fees. Your total time invested will be about 3 hours plus drive time. You have the photos, just establish a timeline, a judge will probably find in your favor, also file against his bond.
@Laura Williams Hi Laura, I’m sorry you are going through this. I would hire a lawyer and go after this guy.
Couple things...
First, can you change your thread title to "deceived by crooked handyman" one of the reasons contractors get a bad rep is because in a situation like this, where that man doesn't deserve any right to be labeled a contractor, he is thrown into our field and gives us a bad name. That guy is a handyman plan and simple. I once hired a handyman, twice actually, and both times he couldn't keep up with my pace or work load. Handyman like to take their time and only work a couple hours a day. They do best with small jobs like switching out a ceiling fan, or installing a new faucet. Large jobs like painting and tile work they can't manage. Why should he spent day after day working on your job when he can just go install a ceiling fan and make a buck or two in cash on the spot. That's why your job took so long, especially if he is on drugs. He is more worried about getting cash that day rather than doing your job and spending days without cash. So everyone who reads this remember that handyman are great for handyman tasks. Anything larger than a few hours isn't meant for a handyman.
Second,
I understand that he came highly recommended from several other individuals who used him but did you vet him yourself? If everything checked out and you suspect drug use mid way through your job than that's probably what happened. Did he finish the work 100%? Did you pay him everything agreed upon? You said this was done before he even knew how much money he was getting, maybe he just expected to be stiffed because he knows he screwed you over with shotty work because he is on drugs. Future reference demand a drug test on the spot, if denied then fire immediately. Also all the extensions should not have been given. He took advantage of you compassion and kindness. You wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt because he came highly recommended from others but fact is that he lost it with your job. I have came up over my deadline on a handful of jobs in my career. Each and every time I gave my client my clients the reasons why, employees quit, fired or didn't show, I underestimated the time needed, ran into issues with material delivery, doesn't matter the reason I always let my clients know and gave them a new deadline, which on the second time around I would 100% make sure I made. I even have a clause in my contracts giving money back to my clients if i fail to meet my deadline. That clause is for your protection so maybe you can keep that in mind for future. After the first time you saw a decline in his demeanor, work, appearance anything you should have known it wouldn't have gotten any better with more time. Extensions are just giving him time to think of more excuses for why it still isn't done. Stick to the contract if he doesn't make the deadline and doesn't come to you in advance with quality reasons why and owning up to his part he played then terminate agreement and pay for what was completed.
This doesn't seem like a scenario where you were trying to be cheap and save money or didn't properly vet this guy. He came highly recommended by several people which is unfortunate that this happened to you. Like a few other people said there are two sides to every story but I highly doubt his story holds any weight. Anyone that has the nerve to pour cement down your drain pipes has some serious problems and zero respect for ownership of anything. After all of this I hope that you take from it to stick to your gut. If your suspected something was wrong early on he should have been terminated on the spot. If he needed one extensions and had a bunch of excuses then you should have terminated him then. Drug use is nothing to play with and makes people very unstable. But I don't want this to be another screwed by my contractor story because that isn't the case here. A single handyman dropped the ball. Not a reputable company who performs large jobs and handles hundreds of thousands of dollars. But the problem is that no one wants to hire those type of companies because they come at a higher expense then the single handyman or small remodeling company. I'm not saying you are wrong for hiring him but this is what happens when you don't hire someone with the proper credentials, license, insurance etc. If he was licensed you could contact them and get some help. But in this situation there is really nothing you can take from him. You could leave reviews and civil suits etc etc but guys like that will just operate with cash for years and years until it goes away. I wish you the best and hope you find a good fix for this! No one deserves to have this happen to them no matter what the situation is!!!
@Laura Williams
Can you anonymously call CPS on him saying you witnessed hard drug use, disturbing behaviour?
I'm glad to hear you only had to jackhammer a few feet. The below grade stuff would have been the worst. Also that you were able to wash a lot of it out. I would definitely test the sewers by flushing the toilet continuosly while simultanously running multiple sinks for an hour to confirm nothing went down the line. Good plumbers will have a motor driven auger with cases worth of extensions to ensure the line will be as clear as possible. If you dont have it already I would get extrrior water and sewer line replacement insurance. Its very little and can pay off when you do encounter the replacement situation.
A couple good ways to find good contractors other than yelp, referrals, and google reviews is to go to home depot at 6 to 7 am to find people that are going there early to get a jump on the day. Thats a J Scott tip.
Another way is if your state has a free licensing workshop for contractors. Head there and network if its convenient. You will get people ambitious enough to take the exam to get licensed.
Not always the case but these few pre screens can provide a little more cusion.
@Meryl McElwain I am curious, is the owner allowed to setup cameras in all spaces? I mean including bathrooms?
I would call the police and file a police report. Then I would hire a lawyer and sue him for malicious damage. Do contact your insurance company but usually they will not really go after the perp. I had a tenant who did $15 K of damage breaking windows and all of the doors, ripped closet doors off the track and broke all of the furniture including glass table tops because they were having a fight. Police were called. Both arrested and got jail time for the destruction. Insurance did not cover even half of the damage...and they never filed against them because they said they never got a response to their inquiry. Duh...so get the police report and get a lawyer on it. You will be able to recover damages, lost income and legal fees if you can prove that this company did the damage. Only problem is that they have to have enough to go after so you can recover what is due. IE trucks, equipment, cash, etc. So sorry this happened to you. Never heard of anything so heinous in 35 years in the industry.
@Laura Williams sorry to hear that! I’d try homeowners insurance definitely and possibly contact an attorney to ask them about potential routes.
If it were me I’d probably just make fix and move on. I’d rather address immediately and move forward and focus on something more positive.
How much is the anticipated fix?
Originally posted by @Laura Williams:
@Ali Boone that’s the first thing I did was call the police. They came out and wouldn’t even write up a report because they said when he poured the concrete down the drain he had permission to be there as he was ‘working’ ....he poured it probably on his last day of work there and I actually have a photo if it clogged and time stamped although I didn’t realize at the time it was clogged because he poured cement down it.
They told me if he had broken back in after he was fired then they could do a report and it would be criminal. But in any case they told me without someone seeing him actually do it or video of it that it doesn’t hold up in court either civally (to sue him) or criminally. Even though he was the only one who had access and keys to the house during the time it was done. I changed the locks the second he was out of there so there is no way it wasn’t him or one of his people. I’ve left a message for my lawyer but it’s just so messed up someone can legally get away with this & police do nothing.
Seriously?? Crap. Maybe call the police again during a different shift and try someone else? Lol. I would absolutely ask a lawyer. That sounds crazy town. Sorry that happened! That pains me in my core to think someone would do that.
Originally posted by @E.S. Burrell:
@Meryl McElwain
Thank you. You just taught me something.
Hopefully, it's to buy cameras :)