Home inspector says deck isnt up to code .

[Matthew Paul]

I got a call earlier this week from a customer I installed a deck for back in 2002 . He is selling his house and the "home inspector "  says the deck wasnt built to code . The customer is upset , I told him to give me a day to go thru my files .  I pull all my copies , approved plans from the county , footer inspections , final inspections , AND I found a copy of the code from 2002 . 

I email the sellers agent all the info , and she emails back that the deck isnt up to todays code .       WTF ?

I then called the customer and told them their agent needs an education , of course the deck isnt up to todays code , code changes every year .  The house was built in 1967 , thats the code the house the house has to be in . Any improvements that were done over the years had to be done to code of that year .  Tell the buyers if they want a house that is up to current code , buy a brand new one .  If it passed inspection it was up to code at the time the work was done .

[Theresa Harris]

The seller's agent does need an education.  Good thing you found a copy of the codes from when it was built almost 20 years ago.

[Bruce Woodruff]

Not the first time you've been through this I'm guessing.....ya can't fix stupid....

[Bill B.]

Heck of a job keeping all the paperwork from 22 years ago. 

2 realtors and an inspector and none of them knew an old house or deck would be up to code? “Trust the experts.”

Why didn’t the inspector say the house wasn’t up to code, even more so than the deck. Good job. 

[Henry T.]

I sold a house two years ago. Similar thing. Home Inspector says deck is not up to code. Today requires lag bolts, whereas 100 years ago it was 20D nailed. Of course, the house is priced accordingly take it or leave it.  Your guys' agent should have slapped him around a little and nicely informed him that he's nuts.

[Alecia Loveless]

@Henry T. Despite the fact that my decks were up to code when I bought them I have had my insurance company do inspections and make me install lag bolts on many things that are in my opinion fine.

Either I risk losing my insurance or I do what they tell me.

In this instance I would tell the buyers I wasn’t fixing it as long as there wasn’t some other reason to compel me to do the repairs.

[Derrick Lewis]

Was the customer satisfied at least after your phone call? 

[Matthew Paul]

Quote from @Derrick Lewis:

Was the customer satisfied at least after your phone call? 

 Dont know , I just gave them the information needed to show things passed inspection

[James Mc Ree]

There is a nuance here: building code versus maintenance code. It seems that all posters above are focusing on building code which is irrelevant decades later.

Municipalities enforce the maintenance code in the present for preexistent structures. They usually cherry-pick fire and safety related items from new editions of the building code that just can't wait, in their opinion. This is where smoke/CO detectors, grounding, electric garage door reversers, and other goodies came from.

If the municipality performing the U&O calls out an item, Seller is stuck with resolving it either by fixing it or negotiating it with the buyer. A clean U&O means the Seller doesn't have to do anything.

The home inspector is a different issue. It doesn't matter if there is no home inspection contingency, but if there is, Buyer and Seller negotiate the items. Buyer can request Seller to fix stuff. Seller can say "No" or negotiate with Buyer. In the end, the entire deal can fall through if there is no agreement. In no way is Seller forced to fix it just because a home inspector calls it out. The finding can be quashed if the U&O is clean and the municipality doesn't support the inspector's finding, but that might require some court action.

[Matthew Paul]

In my area an  U&O is only done when the house is built or an addition put on 

[James Mc Ree]

@Matthew Paul Good point. In my area, U&O inspections are done on every sale and varying rentals from annual to just on turnover.

[Bruce Woodruff]

FYI - When I appled for a City STR permit, the inspector that showed up was interested in only 2 things: Fire extinguishers on each floor with large signs, and working Smoke/CO2 detectors.

I expected them to get upset over the old stairs (1940s) which were very narrow (29"). She said she could care less because they were original.

So different Inspectors have different concerns......

[Steve K.]

Don’t you know that a deck will fall down immediately the second that the building code changes, if it’s no longer up to current code ;). They’re lucky it is still standing and I’d expect it to fall down any second. 

Side note: What’s up with deck builders using deck screws in joist hangers these days? I’ve been seeing a lot of that lately and it’s a sure sign that other stuff is messed up/ not up to code as well. I rarely see ledger boards secured and flashed properly as one example. Lots of 4x4 posts out there in the wild as well, but code now specs 6x6 in my area in most cases. Hundreds of decks are probably about to fall down, since they are not up to code now. 

As a former/ sometimes still carpenter (on my own properties only now) also working as an agent, I am often surprised at how little certain inspectors know. But I still have to recommend that clients get an inspection of course. It can be frustrating especially when they pick their own inspector and they are totally clueless, raising alarms over non-issues. It can be tricky telling the buyer something is a non-issue when the inspector (who is supposed to be the expert) says that it is. The only inspectors I recommend are ones who have a background in the trades themselves because they actually know their stuff, but some buyers have read somewhere that they shouldn’t trust their agent’s inspector recommendation and they hire somebody else who doesn’t have any real hands-on experience building anything.  

I’ve even had structural engineers say that a deck or other structure should have fallen down as well, according to their calculations. But in reality, they are still standing. Must be levitating by magic I guess.

Had the same issue with some floor joists on a recent sale: Inspector called them out for the span exceeding current code, structural engineer said that according to his math the floor should have collapsed, but it’s not even bouncy and has been doing its job for many decades. Freaked the buyers out over nothing. 

[Matthew Paul]

@Steve K. Totally agree , and when a home inspector looks at a house built over 100 years ago and writes a report based on current codes .  Try to tell them there were not any codes back then and look the house is still standing 

[Steve K.]

@Matthew Paul sounds like a newer agent that you're dealing with here. Tell her to talk to her managing broker about it if she doesn't understand.  

Must be a new home inspector as well. Most inspectors will know that properties only need to meet whatever the code was when they were built, not current code and they usually explain that properly IME. There really should be a higher barrier to entry for home inspectors. There is actually no formal licensing requirement in my area. Anyone off the street can call themselves a home inspector. To be fair it's possible that the home inspector explained that it's not up to current code but that it doesn't have to be, and the buyer/ buyer's agent may have misunderstood that to mean there is actually a problem with the deck. 

[Bruce Woodruff]

Quote from @Steve K.:

Side note: What’s up with deck builders using deck screws in joist hangers these days? 

There are certain screws allowed for use in hangers and other Simpson type hardware. Simpson and Spax come to mind. I know, it looks weird when you first see it for us older guys, huh? But I actually like using screws for the first (or maybe first 2) holes, because sometimes when using a hammer like we used to, the hanger can move a little and then you have issues. Just FYI :-)

[Steve K.]

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Steve K.:

Side note: What’s up with deck builders using deck screws in joist hangers these days? 

There are certain screws allowed for use in hangers and other Simpson type hardware. Simpson and Spax come to mind. I know, it looks weird when you first see it for us older guys, huh? But I actually like using screws for the first (or maybe first 2) holes, because sometimes when using a hammer like we used to, the hanger can move a little and then you have issues. Just FYI :-)

Yeah I know Simpson makes a structural screw for hangers now, with a hex head, but I’ve been seeing a lot of regular deck screws used lately and obviously if they’re not structural they don’t have the shear strength needed to support a deck. I saw one using grk’s which I guess are structural but I don’t know why anyone would use those because they are so expensive. Just the other day I saw someone had used black sheet rock screws in the hangers on a brand new deck (non-permitted obviously, and not a single lag or any flashing on the ledger board, and they painted it immediately before the pressure treated lumber had even dried out so that’s going to peal in the first year, at about the same time that those sheetrock screws start to rust lol).

 My favorite was actually just 1.5” galvy tico nails with a palm nailer. Now those are forbidden here and code calls for 16D common or those structural hex screws you mention. Guess all those decks we built using ticos will fall down now too! 

[Jack Schwartz]

Welcome aboard. This is yet another tale of a building inspector who feels the need to assert his authority by constantly reminding everyone, "I am the Inspector." Seeking attention and validation, he expects everyone to look up to him. Some residents even suggest he find a new job. Unfortunately, this is a common scenario with building inspectors. Once it was approved, you should have no problem or issue.

[Peter W.]

Quote from @Steve K.:

Don’t you know that a deck will fall down immediately the second that the building code changes, if it’s no longer up to current code ;). They’re lucky it is still standing and I’d expect it to fall down any second. 

Side note: What’s up with deck builders using deck screws in joist hangers these days? I’ve been seeing a lot of that lately and it’s a sure sign that other stuff is messed up/ not up to code as well. I rarely see ledger boards secured and flashed properly as one example. Lots of 4x4 posts out there in the wild as well, but code now specs 6x6 in my area in most cases. Hundreds of decks are probably about to fall down, since they are not up to code now. 

As a former/ sometimes still carpenter (on my own properties only now) also working as an agent, I am often surprised at how little certain inspectors know. But I still have to recommend that clients get an inspection of course. It can be frustrating especially when they pick their own inspector and they are totally clueless, raising alarms over non-issues. It can be tricky telling the buyer something is a non-issue when the inspector (who is supposed to be the expert) says that it is. The only inspectors I recommend are ones who have a background in the trades themselves because they actually know their stuff, but some buyers have read somewhere that they shouldn’t trust their agent’s inspector recommendation and they hire somebody else who doesn’t have any real hands-on experience building anything.  

I’ve even had structural engineers say that a deck or other structure should have fallen down as well, according to their calculations. But in reality, they are still standing. Must be levitating by magic I guess.

Had the same issue with some floor joists on a recent sale: Inspector called them out for the span exceeding current code, structural engineer said that according to his math the floor should have collapsed, but it’s not even bouncy and has been doing its job for many decades. Freaked the buyers out over nothing. 

That's because structural engineers have a ton of conservatism built into their calculations.  I don't work on houses, but I have to use B and A-basis values for material strength which in effect means the real material will end up being 20%+ stronger (depend on the material).  
Wood has a huge variability in strength--between pine varieties, the stress which can cause them to fail varies by more than 2x and you can see 20%+ increase in strength as it ages.
Then I have stress concentrations which will yield and then redistribute the load in practice, but not according to the calculations I'm allowed to do.  Furthermore, I have an additionally factor of safety of 1.4-1.6 which means I say it's capable of only 70% of what it's actually capable of.  

In the end it's better to overdesign the thing than have someone die--nobody wants an OceanGate on their hands.  But there's definitely a sizable area where the structural engineer will say it fails but the structure won't.

[Bruce Woodruff]

Quote from @Jack Schwartz:

Welcome aboard. This is yet another tale of a building inspector who feels the need to assert his authority by constantly reminding everyone, "I am the Inspector." 

Sad but true. I would say that 80% of the Building Inspectors I worked with over the years (in SoCal) were on a power trip. I had them drive past and refuse to stop even when a concrete truck was on the way. Another guy wouldn't pass me at all because I showed him up...yet another kept insisting that his interpretation of a plumbing code was correct when it was not - cost me 1 month of time.

A neccessary evil IMO, they were usually former GCs who couldn't make it in the real world.....

[Steve K.]

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Jack Schwartz:

Welcome aboard. This is yet another tale of a building inspector who feels the need to assert his authority by constantly reminding everyone, "I am the Inspector." 

Sad but true. I would say that 80% of the Building Inspectors I worked with over the years (in SoCal) were on a power trip. I had them drive past and refuse to stop even when a concrete truck was on the way. Another guy wouldn't pass me at all because I showed him up...yet another kept insisting that his interpretation of a plumbing code was correct when it was not - cost me 1 month of time.

A neccessary evil IMO, they were usually former GCs who couldn't make it in the real world.....

 We used to leave something obviously wrong that was easy to fix, just to give them their thing that they could find and then we would fix it without any fuss, bowing to their omnipotence. Then they would pass us and leave without further ado. Worked every time! 

[Bruce Woodruff]

Quote from @Steve K.:

Yep, that's a good trick, I used it too.....I used to 'forget' something right up front in their face so they would find it and feel good. Leaving the front porch light un-caulked was one they loved to 'gotcha' on.....