The 5 Biggest Mistakes New Investors Are Making Here In The Forums

[Jonathan Greene]

These are here to help you make better connections in the forums. It's ok to be new, but if you consider these five tips, you will get much better responses to your questions.

1. Writing too little or too much in a post looking for answers. There is a happy medium out there. If you write a novel, most of us won't read it because it's just too much. If you write too little, we have nothing to go on. Ask one question and tell everyone what you have done up to this point to get the answers. Also, give relevant information on rates, prices, square footage, etc.

2. Asking for a mentor without having anything to give. This is running rampant. It's great to get in the forums and look to make connections, but when you only put your hand out and ask for help and have nothing to give back, you are only going to get people who are going to pitch you. A few locals may reach out (more likely local agents), but you will never hear back if you hop on that call and only want to take from them.

3. Being fragile when you don't get the responses you want. If someone doesn't give you the answer you want and you clap back, your time in the forums will be short. Not because you will get removed but because you aren't open to advice. Sometimes, you will ask one question, but pros will have other questions to see if you are even asking the right question. Open forums aren't the best option if you are prone to fragility.

4. Asking questions without researching how often the same question has been asked. See "Should I start an LLC?" as an example. If you want to get the best responses, don't ask a question that has been asked a million times. Do your due diligence in the forums, looking for other answers, and use those to frame a better question.

5. Posting the same question in multiple forums. This is a definite no-no. Please stop. Pick one forum where your question makes the most sense. If it's a good question, we will find it. If you post the same question in several forums, we all know it's spam. You know it's spam. Don't spam.

If you are an experienced commenter here, let everyone know what you think of these to help them even more. Add some of your own.

If you are new, please use these to help yourself get better answers here.

[FR W.]

Quote from @Joe S.:

Quote from @FR W.:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Quote from @FR W.

Not everyone that comments or doesn’t comment is scared or someone’s like Buddy @FR W…

Just saying…

Have a blessed Sunday.✅

Hi, Joe.  That shoe is for only the feet it will fit on.  I agree, and that was not the insinuation.

Have an awesome day!

[Dan H.]

Quote from @Kevin S.:

@FR W.

I have only been defending newbies while admitting their faults at the same time but keep getting insults.  For the life of me I don't understand how some seasoned pros think it's ok to do that.  Even more baffling is watching other pros joining in on that.  Last one being Jim K. who took it another level!  Newbies are largely wrong, I get that, but for a reason.  What reason do seasoned pros has to not just be understanding of that?  

Only a couple dared to chime in and break away from the 'club' which I largely appreciate. 

My opinion was he attempted to add levity/humor to a thread that is getting too personal.  In addition the Kens likely more fit the experienced “bully” group more than the “sensitive” newbie group.  

newbies will not catch the reference to Ken.  It was the only post in this that got a chuckle out of me.

I think the original post in this thread was an attempt to help.  I agree some people are sensitive, but I virtually never see value in calling it out.  I also agree there may be some light bullying, but if it was directed at me I would not give a $hit.    I do not see a benefit in this case of calling someone sensitive or someone a bully.  This thread has largely become your bullying me, you are a sensitive cry baby. 

note in a different thread, I have called out a user for continuously making up data in an attempt to make his case. Calling him out IMO is different because he appears to be intentionally deceitful trying to make his case. I believe that warrants being called out on so others do not believe his made up stats and succumb to his view based on made up data. I have some wish that at some point in the future, if a user points out made up data and attaches a link to a reliable source (NAR, case Shiller, neighborhoodscout, Rentometer, etc) showing the data is made up, that BP flags the post as being erroneous. This would prevent newbies from being misled believing made up data that they found on BP.

[Jim K.]

@Dan H.

No, I was just bored, and I set these two off, and in retrospect it would been wiser not to get involved in the hissy fit that this thread has become.

[Dan H.]

Quote from @Jim K.:

@Dan H.

No, I was just bored, and I set these two off, and in retrospect it would been wiser not to get involved in the hissy fit that this thread has become.

Regardless, I got some entertainment out of it.  Subtle, clear, concise (unlike many posts in this thread), and slightly funny.  Pokes fun of Ken and both bantering parties on this thread. Great trifecta in such a concise response.  

[Carlos Ptriawan]

Quote from @Jim K.:

@Dan H.

No, I was just bored, and I set these two off, and in retrospect it would been wiser not to get involved in the hissy fit that this thread has become.

 why do you get bored Jim  ? hahaha I thought you already found the $700k gold coins from one of your rental :) lol

or are you still thinking about the "Generational Wealth ?" that one was a good thread.

[FR W.]

Quote from @Dan H.:

Quote from @Kevin S.:

@FR W.

I have only been defending newbies while admitting their faults at the same time but keep getting insults.  For the life of me I don't understand how some seasoned pros think it's ok to do that.  Even more baffling is watching other pros joining in on that.  Last one being Jim K. who took it another level!  Newbies are largely wrong, I get that, but for a reason.  What reason do seasoned pros has to not just be understanding of that?  

Only a couple dared to chime in and break away from the 'club' which I largely appreciate. 

My opinion was he attempted to add levity/humor to a thread that is getting too personal.  In addition the Kens likely more fit the experienced “bully” group more than the “sensitive” newbie group.  

newbies will not catch the reference to Ken.  It was the only post in this that got a chuckle out of me.

I think the original post in this thread was an attempt to help.  I agree some people are sensitive, but I virtually never see value in calling it out.  I also agree there may be some light bullying, but if it was directed at me I would not give a $hit.    I do not see a benefit in this case of calling someone sensitive or someone a bully.  This thread has largely become your bullying me, you are a sensitive cry baby. 

note in a different thread, I have called out a user for continuously making up data in an attempt to make his case. Calling him out IMO is different because he appears to be intentionally deceitful trying to make his case. I believe that warrants being called out on so others do not believe his made up stats and succumb to his view based on made up data. I have some wish that at some point in the future, if a user points out made up data and attaches a link to a reliable source (NAR, case Shiller, neighborhoodscout, Rentometer, etc) showing the data is made up, that BP flags the post as being erroneous. This would prevent newbies from being misled believing made up data that they found on BP.

Hi, Dan.  I am no one's victim, but I am known for standing up for those who are, or those who would be victims.  I have also NOT been bullied here - no one can bully me - I am much too strong for that - but I am known for shutting bullies down when I witness them attacking the innocent.  This one on here along with his "little" buddy who chirped in, tickled my fancy a bit more than usual because I've witnessed the initial poster "bullying" others before.  I knew what kind of "retaliation" would come my way for daring to offer another perspective to his comments, but since I AM NOT intimidated by words or otherwise, I chose to leave my opinion anyway, in hopes that it would bring a bit more kindness to the situation, instead of a piling on of "newbies" by the so-called 'pros' - some who make such degrading remarks about being a "new" investor, that it's sad. And it's done to intimidate; but I turned the tables, and it's clear he isn't accustomed to that, nor does he like it when it's done to him. 

I get it, hurt people, hurt people, and for some people to feel better about themselves, they have to make other people feel small.  How sad for them. There is no other reason than that for poking fun at anyone or attempting to make others feel less than.  

I make no apologies for anything I've said here, because everything I have pointed out about the BULLY was truthful, and everything meant to be helpful was kind.  Calling someone a "cry baby" "lurker" or any of the other nasty adjectives he spewed, that's name calling;  calling someone a BULLY is fact.  His words (the proof) are on glaring display, and if everyone were honest, they'd call it out for what it is/was - BULLYING - nothing light about it.  And there should never be a time when any kind of BULLYING is brushed off as "light."  BULLYING of any kind is the reason kids (and adults) have taken their lives, so I stand against it in every form, and on every level... light or large.

If someone wants to BULLY and I happen to witness it, well, what a sad day for them.

Only one person (along with his "little" friend) took this stream off track.  The other comments (that I noticed) were other points of view.  And if you don't like someone challenging what you put in words online, don't write anything publicly.  No one has to agree with you.  And if no one was attacking him for his views, he should not have taken to attacking others, but he did, because that's his mo.  It's what he's gotten away with for so long, unchallenged.  Not today.

You have to have a thick skin for this business, and although some like to boast that they have it, the proof is in the pudding here in this stream.

Thank you for your perspective Dan.  It was appreciated :)

[Bruce Woodruff]

Quote from @Seth Rosellini:

Wow. I really appreciated this post, I'm fairly new here and haven't posted anything in the forum yet, so I'm definitely glad I read this first. 

Thank you for helping the newbies like myself!

Seth Rosellini 

 Great post!

[Carlos Ptriawan]

Quote from @FR W.:

Quote from @Dan H.:

Quote from @Kevin S.:

@FR W.

If someone wants to BULLY and I happen to witness it, well, what a sad day for them.

what makes a forum where people can talk to other people openly is that people can voice their expression, sometimes with a little bit of bullying, I think that's acceptable if not going too extreme, I get bullied too after helping them to decompose problems. Sometimes you can't do anything other than just laugh.  But there are interesting fun vibes here at BP when specific people interact, I can even predict what they're going to say and what these two folks going to debate ;-) , the forum is like a fruit market, where everyone is throwing their opinion and then for an answer that you're looking for, you write down that answer in your brain. For some specific people, I try not to argue a lot because some folks have a relentless spirit to force their point lol but rest assured they are all loving real estate (and stock market lol) haha

[FR W.]

Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

Quote from @FR W.:

Quote from @Dan H.:

Quote from @Kevin S.:

@FR W.

If someone wants to BULLY and I happen to witness it, well, what a sad day for them.

what makes a forum where people can talk to other people openly is that people can voice their expression, sometimes with a little bit of bullying, I think that's acceptable if not going too extreme, I get bullied too after helping them to decompose problems. Sometimes you can't do anything other than just laugh.  But there are interesting fun vibes here at BP when specific people interact, I can even predict what they're going to say and what these two folks going to debate ;-) , the forum is like a fruit market, where everyone is throwing their opinion and then for an answer that you're looking for, you write down that answer in your brain. For some specific people, I try not to argue a lot because some folks have a relentless spirit to force their point lol but rest assured they are all loving real estate (and stock market lol) haha

Hi.  Fortunately, as I've stated, I don't find BULLYING on any level OK.  People kill themselves for even what some might call "light" BULLYING.  But, thank you for chiming in, and you're right, hopefully we all love RE and the stock market.  I sure do :)

[Bruce Woodruff]

How funny that a fairly innocent post about helping newbies get the best results from this forum (what to do/not to do) has devolved into a butt-hurt match. Or sad maybe....

And it should be noted that 'we' are not @Jonathan Greene s buddies/friends/etc, never met the guy, but he gives solid advice continually/consistently and I respect that, most people don't realize how difficult that is...and valuable for those that take it as it is given.

I have experienced the posters who ask for advice, and then when presented with the 'correct answer' (by multi-decades experts) start to argue and call names....happens all the time.

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @Kevin S.:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Let's see what you guys are made of.

@Kevin S. and FR W, since you both are hiding behind no photo and limited information and think you are being bullied, let's meet up online on a recorded Zoom that I will then add to this forum. I will post the live link in here so anyone can come and help you.

I invite you both to come on with me, air your gripes for newbies, and explain where in the initial post you felt attacked. We can go word by word through the whole thing, or you can just try to debate me in person, live and recorded.

Let me know a good time for you both this week, and I will post the link here so everyone can come on at the same time.

 "LET'S SEE WHAT YOU GUYS ARE MADE UP OF" !!   Wow...just wow!

Not sure where to even begin.  This is an entire book filled topic.  After zoom then what?  Physical meet up @ OK Corral?  Your ego knows no limits.  

You realize I ignored your last response because it was a general response with nothing personal.  But you are not happy, still.  Your ego has taken control of you. 

That starting quote of your I haven't heard since high school days(maybe middle school).  Nor have I heard from the likes of Warren Buffet, Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk.  Could you please rank yourself amongst them so at least I have an idea?   

What do you expect to get out of debate on Zoom that hasn't been discussed here already? As a matter of fact you left a 'respectable discussion' long time ago on this thread and took it to another level.  Lower.  In one of your recent comments you even resorted to calling "newbie babies".  

For those of us who choose to maintain our privacy, it is just that.  Our choice.  Everything can be discussed here.  You seem to have no trouble responding here hence I see no point otherwise.  You on the other hand have no choice but to give up that privacy since your livelihood depends on seeking clients here. We don't.  Sorry.

Do you even realized what you are doing to yourself by quoting your opening line?  I hope your potential prospects do not come across this thread. 

Come to think of it, you give seasoned pros a bad rap just like some newbies give newcomers a bad rap. So unfortunate.  Even @Jim K who hurled personal insult (I did not respond in kind) did not go beyond a few comments, has closed out respectably.  It's all good.  We all make mistakes from time to time.  It's not late for you to follow suit.  We can be friends and you get to save face.  What will it be?  

Other seasoned pros are watching...

Exactly the expected response. Stay in hiding.

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @FR W.:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Quote from @FR W.:

Quote from @Dan H.:

Quote from @FR W.:

The level of professionalism is astounding (and childish).  Name calling... insults.  Are you the only one who can have an opinion?  Or an idea?  Or a point of view?  

And yet, Jonathan's not hiding his identity behind initials and no picture.

 If I had to do it over again, I would have used “Dan H”.  with my last name I am very easy to identify.  There are also many weird people out there.  Some that believe all LL are evil and that they should not expect to make money for the risk, investment, and effort of investing in residential RE.  I continuously run into more people like this (I am sure living in Ca does not help).  What virtually all these people have in common is they know less than $hit about RE.  They feel they have 0 opportunity but at the conferences and REA meeting I go to I meet young people with a different attitude that appear to be on a great path to success.  

I recently attended the MTR summit.  There were a lot of young hustlers.  2 local girls worked supporting the summit to go.  They made a good pitch to try to manage my STRs.  I loved their enthusiasm and hustle.  As near as I can determine they own no Properties but co-host some and are eager to grow.  Their mindset was so different than the socialist that believe housing is a divine right and they should be able to live wherever they want.  I know who will be more successful and it is not those that think they should be provided free/low cost housing in San diego for doing virtually nothing. 

My point is I understand wanting some anonymity.  I wish I had more anonymity with respect to BP. 

Anyone at BP want to help getting my user name changed to “Dan h” or “Dan R H”?

Good idea, Dan H.  When you're dealing with the internet, there are just so many trolls and childish folks running around who will do their best to "harm" or hurt you in anyway they can when you do something as simple as disagree with them, or have a different view point from theirs.  I knew exactly what I was doing using my initials.  Many others I know of who have come across the kind of childish, indecent kind of folks I mentioned above, always say the same thing, "I wish I had started out using only my initials and not posting my photo."  Regarding changing your name, I don't do much around BP as I'm "busy," - the real kind of busy that keeps me from posting here all day, but reach out to BP and maybe they can help you with that.  All the best, Dan!

Bro, are you even serious here? You have been trolling non-stop, but are also busy? You aren't gaining any favor as an anonymous person on the site. You are hiding so you can do stuff like this.

For someone who isn't reading my comments because they're so long, you surely can't stop responding to them.

"Bro," you sound just like a "little" BULLY sending out his rally cry for help after the entire school stood up against him.  Drop the "anonymous" thing.  It's old and desperate. There are a thousand folks on BP who use their initials and have no photo. I've been on BP for a couple of years, and in all that time I've never engaged in anything like this before.  Yet, you brag that you've been here since forever, and I have personally witnessed your BULLYING in several topic forums.  The same BULLYING you've been attempting to pull off here.  You keep saying I'm not gaining any favor here - seems to me you're the only one after that so-called "favor."

"You are hiding so you can do stuff like this."  That statement alone shows how you are not accustomed to someone challenging you like this.  Typically, you would have run the poor sods off, but "not I, said the cat."  It's a new day for you, sir.  You're not the only one allowed to have an opinion.  You're not the only one allowed a point of view.  And you're certainly not the only one who can give it.  Only thing is, it looks like you can dish it out, but you can't take it.

I will say this again, YOU AND OTHERS LIKE YOU are the reason so many quit looking for help in this forum, and stop seeking the answers they need.  I'm not going to repeat the "whys" of my kind response to your initial post... those can be found in some of my other comments, but anyone with half a brain can look at my comment in response to your initial one, and find nothing but love and kindness in it.  It was your NASTY reply that started this rabbit hole journey.

So stop crying for help. Stop using words that you know will "nudge" your "little" sidekicks to jump in and help you here.  Stop trying to make yourself look like the victim.  You have victimized any and everyone who has offered another POV to what you've said.  When you use words like "you've been trolling," that's your "cry" to ask your buddies to jump in and help.  As someone else said, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.

You want everyone to believe that you are so busy, yet, all your time is spent here... insulting and scaring folks off away from BP so you can turn around and call them "weak" and F R A G I L E.  Again, "not I, said the cat."

I hadn't read my Bible yesterday BEFORE I began replying to your nastiness.  But today, we're going to take a different route, because my goal is to always lead with love in hopes that someone else will humble themselves and begin to lead with love in their dealings with others.

"For God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self control."  2 Timothy 1:7

You call yourself a mentor here, so DO BETTER.  Choose BETTER.  Be BETTER.  

Real folks will respect you more.

Have an amazing day!  

Didn't read, but I am quite sure you said no to showing up and having a real conversation. Keep hiding.

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @FR W.:

Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

Quote from @FR W.:

Quote from @Dan H.:

Quote from @Kevin S.:

@FR W.

If someone wants to BULLY and I happen to witness it, well, what a sad day for them.

what makes a forum where people can talk to other people openly is that people can voice their expression, sometimes with a little bit of bullying, I think that's acceptable if not going too extreme, I get bullied too after helping them to decompose problems. Sometimes you can't do anything other than just laugh.  But there are interesting fun vibes here at BP when specific people interact, I can even predict what they're going to say and what these two folks going to debate ;-) , the forum is like a fruit market, where everyone is throwing their opinion and then for an answer that you're looking for, you write down that answer in your brain. For some specific people, I try not to argue a lot because some folks have a relentless spirit to force their point lol but rest assured they are all loving real estate (and stock market lol) haha

Hi.  Fortunately, as I've stated, I don't find BULLYING on any level OK.  People kill themselves for even what some might call "light" BULLYING.  But, thank you for chiming in, and you're right, hopefully we all love RE and the stock market.  I sure do :)

This is a serious post? You just took a regular forum post to help people where you and your friend have been hyperbolic the entire time, with only me responding to you, to a bullying/suicide thing? Please seek the help you need.

[Jonathan Greene]

Let's try to conclude the thread, as it holds no value anymore.

The light always shines on an invitation. What could go wrong with hopping on a Zoom? Nothing. I was open to letting these two guys make their best case, maybe they learn something.

This is your standard fare anonymous forum poster BS hiding behind privacy concerns.

The only reason it's still going this way is because they won't come out from behind the curtain and just have a regular conversation and somehow turn a Zoom invitation into some type of threat or aggrieved behavior. As I said in the original post, this is fragility.

Go back and read the first post and tell me where that was offensive. Everything after that came from clapback and fragility and just because I won't let the stupidity go, it continues. For everyone's sake, stop replying.

[FR W.]

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Let's try to conclude the thread, as it holds no value anymore.

The light always shines on an invitation. What could go wrong with hopping on a Zoom? Nothing. I was open to letting these two guys make their best case, maybe they learn something.

This is your standard fare anonymous forum poster BS hiding behind privacy concerns.

The only reason it's still going this way is because they won't come out from behind the curtain and just have a regular conversation and somehow turn a Zoom invitation into some type of threat or aggrieved behavior. As I said in the original post, this is fragility.

Go back and read the first post and tell me where that was offensive. Everything after that came from clapback and fragility and just because I won't let the stupidity go, it continues. For everyone's sake, stop replying.

Individuals who have experienced hurt haven't processed their pain or developed effective coping strategies. Their unprocessed emotions can manifest as aggressive behaviors towards others.  <You>

Again, stop calling out for help here with these posts that you hope will change the opinion of you that you so greatly hope that others will have of you.  Dude, you're on full display now, and we all know how much you NEED that favor around here. 

Stop BULLYING.  I pray you're not a parent.  Your level of BULLYING is too much to pass on to innocent children, as they behave the way they see us behave.  Be kind and they too will be kind.  Be nasty, and they too will be nasty.  Stand up against BULLYING, and they too will do the same.  


You stop replying. YOU. WON'T. WIN. Isn't that what you 'warned' before?

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @FR W.:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Let's try to conclude the thread, as it holds no value anymore.

The light always shines on an invitation. What could go wrong with hopping on a Zoom? Nothing. I was open to letting these two guys make their best case, maybe they learn something.

This is your standard fare anonymous forum poster BS hiding behind privacy concerns.

The only reason it's still going this way is because they won't come out from behind the curtain and just have a regular conversation and somehow turn a Zoom invitation into some type of threat or aggrieved behavior. As I said in the original post, this is fragility.

Go back and read the first post and tell me where that was offensive. Everything after that came from clapback and fragility and just because I won't let the stupidity go, it continues. For everyone's sake, stop replying.

Individuals who have experienced hurt haven't processed their pain or developed effective coping strategies. Their unprocessed emotions can manifest as aggressive behaviors towards others. 

Again, stop calling out for help here with these posts that you hope will change the opinion of you that you so greatly hope that others will have of you.  Dude, you're on full display now, and we all know how much you NEED that favor around here. 

Stop BULLYING.  I pray you're not a parent.  Your level of BULLYING is too much to pass on to innocent children, as they behave the way they see us behave.  Be kind and they too will be kind.  Be nasty, and they too will be nasty.  Stand up against BULLYING, and they too will do the same.  


You stop replying. YOU. WON'T. WIN. Isn't that what you 'warned' before?

Let's go back to the start. I made a post. You criticized it, and I responded. Over and over. It's on you. You can't get out of your own way. What you are writing is literally insane, talking about me as a parent. Talking about bullying. No one is bullying you. I don't even know who you are. I am just responding to you. Each post gets more hyperbolic. Just relax. You aren't going to win anything on here.

No one needs favor. You are seriously through the fence in left field and into the parking lot. As I have said 100 times, go back and read the first post and tell me where something bullied you. You did the rest.

[Dan H.]

Quote from @FR W.:

Quote from @Dan H.:

Quote from @Kevin S.:

@FR W.

I have only been defending newbies while admitting their faults at the same time but keep getting insults.  For the life of me I don't understand how some seasoned pros think it's ok to do that.  Even more baffling is watching other pros joining in on that.  Last one being Jim K. who took it another level!  Newbies are largely wrong, I get that, but for a reason.  What reason do seasoned pros has to not just be understanding of that?  

Only a couple dared to chime in and break away from the 'club' which I largely appreciate. 

My opinion was he attempted to add levity/humor to a thread that is getting too personal.  In addition the Kens likely more fit the experienced “bully” group more than the “sensitive” newbie group.  

newbies will not catch the reference to Ken.  It was the only post in this that got a chuckle out of me.

I think the original post in this thread was an attempt to help.  I agree some people are sensitive, but I virtually never see value in calling it out.  I also agree there may be some light bullying, but if it was directed at me I would not give a $hit.    I do not see a benefit in this case of calling someone sensitive or someone a bully.  This thread has largely become your bullying me, you are a sensitive cry baby. 

note in a different thread, I have called out a user for continuously making up data in an attempt to make his case. Calling him out IMO is different because he appears to be intentionally deceitful trying to make his case. I believe that warrants being called out on so others do not believe his made up stats and succumb to his view based on made up data. I have some wish that at some point in the future, if a user points out made up data and attaches a link to a reliable source (NAR, case Shiller, neighborhoodscout, Rentometer, etc) showing the data is made up, that BP flags the post as being erroneous. This would prevent newbies from being misled believing made up data that they found on BP.

Hi, Dan.  I am no one's victim, but I am known for standing up for those who are, or those who would be victims.  I have also NOT been bullied here - no one can bully me - I am much too strong for that - but I am known for shutting bullies down when I witness them attacking the innocent.  This one on here along with his "little" buddy who chirped in, tickled my fancy a bit more than usual because I've witnessed the initial poster "bullying" others before.  I knew what kind of "retaliation" would come my way for daring to offer another perspective to his comments, but since I AM NOT intimidated by words or otherwise, I chose to leave my opinion anyway, in hopes that it would bring a bit more kindness to the situation, instead of a piling on of "newbies" by the so-called 'pros' - some who make such degrading remarks about being a "new" investor, that it's sad. And it's done to intimidate; but I turned the tables, and it's clear he isn't accustomed to that, nor does he like it when it's done to him. 

I get it, hurt people, hurt people, and for some people to feel better about themselves, they have to make other people feel small.  How sad for them. There is no other reason than that for poking fun at anyone or attempting to make others feel less than.  

I make no apologies for anything I've said here, because everything I have pointed out about the BULLY was truthful, and everything meant to be helpful was kind.  Calling someone a "cry baby" "lurker" or any of the other nasty adjectives he spewed, that's name calling;  calling someone a BULLY is fact.  His words (the proof) are on glaring display, and if everyone were honest, they'd call it out for what it is/was - BULLYING - nothing light about it.  And there should never be a time when any kind of BULLYING is brushed off as "light."  BULLYING of any kind is the reason kids (and adults) have taken their lives, so I stand against it in every form, and on every level... light or large.

If someone wants to BULLY and I happen to witness it, well, what a sad day for them.

Only one person (along with his "little" friend) took this stream off track.  The other comments (that I noticed) were other points of view.  And if you don't like someone challenging what you put in words online, don't write anything publicly.  No one has to agree with you.  And if no one was attacking him for his views, he should not have taken to attacking others, but he did, because that's his mo.  It's what he's gotten away with for so long, unchallenged.  Not today.

You have to have a thick skin for this business, and although some like to boast that they have it, the proof is in the pudding here in this stream.

Thank you for your perspective Dan.  It was appreciated :)

 The more you post, the more I find you overtly sensitive (at least toward others’ feelings as you say you cannot be bullied but not sure anyone other than you felt initial post tried to bully anyone).  I usually would not state such (that you are coming across sensitive) but if any of Jonathon’s initial comments were addressed at me, I would not be offended or consider it bullying.  Maybe I have thick skin and, as I indicated, I think there is typically no value in calling someone sensitive.  

I also reserve the term bully for a lot worse words than any I have seen from either party in this thread.   

>If someone wants to BULLY and I happen to witness it, well, what a sad day for them.

Not sure how you find this comment not to describe a bully.  

I question if the defender of the perceived meek (which I am not sure there are anyone that felt bullied in this thread) has become as big a bully as the accused bully (which I am not sure there is a bully in this thread). I suspect you are standing up for an imagined victim.

I am not saying any of this trying to bully anyone as much as show how you are coming across to me.  Maybe I am alone in my feeling, but I suspect not.  

Best wishes

[FR W.]

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Quote from @Kevin S.:

If someone wants to BULLY and I happen to witness it, well, what a sad day for them.

what makes a forum where people can talk to other people openly is that people can voice their expression, sometimes with a little bit of bullying, I think that's acceptable if not going too extreme, I get bullied too after helping them to decompose problems. Sometimes you can't do anything other than just laugh.  But there are interesting fun vibes here at BP when specific people interact, I can even predict what they're going to say and what these two folks going to debate ;-) , the forum is like a fruit market, where everyone is throwing their opinion and then for an answer that you're looking for, you write down that answer in your brain. For some specific people, I try not to argue a lot because some folks have a relentless spirit to force their point lol but rest assured they are all loving real estate (and stock market lol) haha

Hi.  Fortunately, as I've stated, I don't find BULLYING on any level OK.  People kill themselves for even what some might call "light" BULLYING.  But, thank you for chiming in, and you're right, hopefully we all love RE and the stock market.  I sure do :)

This is a serious post? You just took a regular forum post to help people where you and your friend have been hyperbolic the entire time, with only me responding to you, to a bullying/suicide thing? Please seek the help you need.

Everyone sees now that you are the one who clearly needs help.  And yes, that's exactly what I said, because BULLYING the way you do, does drive folks (children and adults) to take their own lives.  So, again, stop BULLYING.  If you can't offer kindness and truly help others, stop trying to make them feel small so that you can feel better about your sad life. We all know that misery loves company, but try taking a different approach and see how things work out for you.

It's been clear for the past couple of days that something or someone has hurt you tremendously, and we're sorry that happened to you.  But, instead of using your pain to try and make others feel as bad as you do, turn it around, and use it to make others feel good.  

Have an amazing day!

"Gracious words are a honeycomb sweet to the soul and healing to the bones." ~Proverbs 16:24

[FR W.]

Quote from @Dan H.:

Quote from @Kevin S.:

@FR W.

I have only been defending newbies while admitting their faults at the same time but keep getting insults.  For the life of me I don't understand how some seasoned pros think it's ok to do that.  Even more baffling is watching other pros joining in on that.  Last one being Jim K. who took it another level!  Newbies are largely wrong, I get that, but for a reason.  What reason do seasoned pros has to not just be understanding of that?  

Only a couple dared to chime in and break away from the 'club' which I largely appreciate. 

My opinion was he attempted to add levity/humor to a thread that is getting too personal.  In addition the Kens likely more fit the experienced “bully” group more than the “sensitive” newbie group.  

newbies will not catch the reference to Ken.  It was the only post in this that got a chuckle out of me.

I think the original post in this thread was an attempt to help.  I agree some people are sensitive, but I virtually never see value in calling it out.  I also agree there may be some light bullying, but if it was directed at me I would not give a $hit.    I do not see a benefit in this case of calling someone sensitive or someone a bully.  This thread has largely become your bullying me, you are a sensitive cry baby. 

note in a different thread, I have called out a user for continuously making up data in an attempt to make his case. Calling him out IMO is different because he appears to be intentionally deceitful trying to make his case. I believe that warrants being called out on so others do not believe his made up stats and succumb to his view based on made up data. I have some wish that at some point in the future, if a user points out made up data and attaches a link to a reliable source (NAR, case Shiller, neighborhoodscout, Rentometer, etc) showing the data is made up, that BP flags the post as being erroneous. This would prevent newbies from being misled believing made up data that they found on BP.

Hi, Dan.  I am no one's victim, but I am known for standing up for those who are, or those who would be victims.  I have also NOT been bullied here - no one can bully me - I am much too strong for that - but I am known for shutting bullies down when I witness them attacking the innocent.  This one on here along with his "little" buddy who chirped in, tickled my fancy a bit more than usual because I've witnessed the initial poster "bullying" others before.  I knew what kind of "retaliation" would come my way for daring to offer another perspective to his comments, but since I AM NOT intimidated by words or otherwise, I chose to leave my opinion anyway, in hopes that it would bring a bit more kindness to the situation, instead of a piling on of "newbies" by the so-called 'pros' - some who make such degrading remarks about being a "new" investor, that it's sad. And it's done to intimidate; but I turned the tables, and it's clear he isn't accustomed to that, nor does he like it when it's done to him. 

I get it, hurt people, hurt people, and for some people to feel better about themselves, they have to make other people feel small.  How sad for them. There is no other reason than that for poking fun at anyone or attempting to make others feel less than.  

I make no apologies for anything I've said here, because everything I have pointed out about the BULLY was truthful, and everything meant to be helpful was kind.  Calling someone a "cry baby" "lurker" or any of the other nasty adjectives he spewed, that's name calling;  calling someone a BULLY is fact.  His words (the proof) are on glaring display, and if everyone were honest, they'd call it out for what it is/was - BULLYING - nothing light about it.  And there should never be a time when any kind of BULLYING is brushed off as "light."  BULLYING of any kind is the reason kids (and adults) have taken their lives, so I stand against it in every form, and on every level... light or large.

If someone wants to BULLY and I happen to witness it, well, what a sad day for them.

Only one person (along with his "little" friend) took this stream off track.  The other comments (that I noticed) were other points of view.  And if you don't like someone challenging what you put in words online, don't write anything publicly.  No one has to agree with you.  And if no one was attacking him for his views, he should not have taken to attacking others, but he did, because that's his mo.  It's what he's gotten away with for so long, unchallenged.  Not today.

You have to have a thick skin for this business, and although some like to boast that they have it, the proof is in the pudding here in this stream.

Thank you for your perspective Dan.  It was appreciated :)

 The more you post, the more I find you overtly sensitive (at least toward others feelings as you say you cannot be bullied but not sure anyone other than you felt initial post tried to bully anyone).  I usually would not state such (that you are coming across sensitive) but if any of Jonathon’s initial comments were addressed at me, I would not be offended or consider it bullying.  Maybe I have thick skin and, as I indicated, I think there is typically no value in calling someone sensitive.  

I also reserve the term bully for a lot worse words than any I have seen from either party in this thread.   

>If someone wants to BULLY and I happen to witness it, well, what a sad day for them.

Not sure how you find this comment not to describe a bully.  

I question if the defender of the perceived meek (which I am not sure there are anyone that felt bullied in this thread) has become as big a bully as the accused bully (which I am not sure there is a bully in this thread). I suspect you are standing up for an imagined victim.

I am not saying any of this trying to bully anyone as much as show how you are coming across to me.  Maybe I am alone in my feeling, but I suspect not.  

Best wishes

What makes this such an awesome world is we are all entitled to our opinions and our own points of view.  Thank you for sharing.

Have an amazing Sunday!

[Jim K.]

Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

Quote from @Jim K.:

@Dan H.

No, I was just bored, and I set these two off, and in retrospect it would been wiser not to get involved in the hissy fit that this thread has become.

 why do you get bored Jim  ? hahaha I thought you already found the $700k gold coins from one of your rental :) lol

or are you still thinking about the "Generational Wealth ?" that one was a good thread.

Yeah. I really need to do quite a few more like "Gen. Wealth." Thank you.

[FR W.]

Quote from @Dan H.:

Quote from @FR W.:

Quote from @Dan H.:

Quote from @Kevin S.:

@FR W.

I have only been defending newbies while admitting their faults at the same time but keep getting insults.  For the life of me I don't understand how some seasoned pros think it's ok to do that.  Even more baffling is watching other pros joining in on that.  Last one being Jim K. who took it another level!  Newbies are largely wrong, I get that, but for a reason.  What reason do seasoned pros has to not just be understanding of that?  

Only a couple dared to chime in and break away from the 'club' which I largely appreciate. 

My opinion was he attempted to add levity/humor to a thread that is getting too personal.  In addition the Kens likely more fit the experienced “bully” group more than the “sensitive” newbie group.  

newbies will not catch the reference to Ken.  It was the only post in this that got a chuckle out of me.

I think the original post in this thread was an attempt to help.  I agree some people are sensitive, but I virtually never see value in calling it out.  I also agree there may be some light bullying, but if it was directed at me I would not give a $hit.    I do not see a benefit in this case of calling someone sensitive or someone a bully.  This thread has largely become your bullying me, you are a sensitive cry baby. 

note in a different thread, I have called out a user for continuously making up data in an attempt to make his case. Calling him out IMO is different because he appears to be intentionally deceitful trying to make his case. I believe that warrants being called out on so others do not believe his made up stats and succumb to his view based on made up data. I have some wish that at some point in the future, if a user points out made up data and attaches a link to a reliable source (NAR, case Shiller, neighborhoodscout, Rentometer, etc) showing the data is made up, that BP flags the post as being erroneous. This would prevent newbies from being misled believing made up data that they found on BP.

Hi, Dan.  I am no one's victim, but I am known for standing up for those who are, or those who would be victims.  I have also NOT been bullied here - no one can bully me - I am much too strong for that - but I am known for shutting bullies down when I witness them attacking the innocent.  This one on here along with his "little" buddy who chirped in, tickled my fancy a bit more than usual because I've witnessed the initial poster "bullying" others before.  I knew what kind of "retaliation" would come my way for daring to offer another perspective to his comments, but since I AM NOT intimidated by words or otherwise, I chose to leave my opinion anyway, in hopes that it would bring a bit more kindness to the situation, instead of a piling on of "newbies" by the so-called 'pros' - some who make such degrading remarks about being a "new" investor, that it's sad. And it's done to intimidate; but I turned the tables, and it's clear he isn't accustomed to that, nor does he like it when it's done to him. 

I get it, hurt people, hurt people, and for some people to feel better about themselves, they have to make other people feel small.  How sad for them. There is no other reason than that for poking fun at anyone or attempting to make others feel less than.  

I make no apologies for anything I've said here, because everything I have pointed out about the BULLY was truthful, and everything meant to be helpful was kind.  Calling someone a "cry baby" "lurker" or any of the other nasty adjectives he spewed, that's name calling;  calling someone a BULLY is fact.  His words (the proof) are on glaring display, and if everyone were honest, they'd call it out for what it is/was - BULLYING - nothing light about it.  And there should never be a time when any kind of BULLYING is brushed off as "light."  BULLYING of any kind is the reason kids (and adults) have taken their lives, so I stand against it in every form, and on every level... light or large.

If someone wants to BULLY and I happen to witness it, well, what a sad day for them.

Only one person (along with his "little" friend) took this stream off track.  The other comments (that I noticed) were other points of view.  And if you don't like someone challenging what you put in words online, don't write anything publicly.  No one has to agree with you.  And if no one was attacking him for his views, he should not have taken to attacking others, but he did, because that's his mo.  It's what he's gotten away with for so long, unchallenged.  Not today.

You have to have a thick skin for this business, and although some like to boast that they have it, the proof is in the pudding here in this stream.

Thank you for your perspective Dan.  It was appreciated :)

 The more you post, the more I find you overtly sensitive (at least toward others feelings as you say you cannot be bullied but not sure anyone other than you felt initial post tried to bully anyone).  I usually would not state such (that you are coming across sensitive) but if any of Jonathon’s initial comments were addressed at me, I would not be offended or consider it bullying.  Maybe I have thick skin and, as I indicated, I think there is typically no value in calling someone sensitive.  

I also reserve the term bully for a lot worse words than any I have seen from either party in this thread.   

>If someone wants to BULLY and I happen to witness it, well, what a sad day for them.

Not sure how you find this comment not to describe a bully.  

I question if the defender of the perceived meek (which I am not sure there are anyone that felt bullied in this thread) has become as big a bully as the accused bully (which I am not sure there is a bully in this thread). I suspect you are standing up for an imagined victim.

I am not saying any of this trying to bully anyone as much as show how you are coming across to me.  Maybe I am alone in my feeling, but I suspect not.  

Best wishes

And Dan, just for clarity, let's say that I'm the only one who called out the BULLYING.  That's evident in the number of "private" email messages that I've received regarding this very thread.

And I'm also not interested in how I'm coming across to anyone here - it's your friend here who is here for the favor.  

Have an amazing Sunday!

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @FR W.:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Quote from @Kevin S.:

If someone wants to BULLY and I happen to witness it, well, what a sad day for them.

what makes a forum where people can talk to other people openly is that people can voice their expression, sometimes with a little bit of bullying, I think that's acceptable if not going too extreme, I get bullied too after helping them to decompose problems. Sometimes you can't do anything other than just laugh.  But there are interesting fun vibes here at BP when specific people interact, I can even predict what they're going to say and what these two folks going to debate ;-) , the forum is like a fruit market, where everyone is throwing their opinion and then for an answer that you're looking for, you write down that answer in your brain. For some specific people, I try not to argue a lot because some folks have a relentless spirit to force their point lol but rest assured they are all loving real estate (and stock market lol) haha

Hi.  Fortunately, as I've stated, I don't find BULLYING on any level OK.  People kill themselves for even what some might call "light" BULLYING.  But, thank you for chiming in, and you're right, hopefully we all love RE and the stock market.  I sure do :)

This is a serious post? You just took a regular forum post to help people where you and your friend have been hyperbolic the entire time, with only me responding to you, to a bullying/suicide thing? Please seek the help you need.

Everyone sees now that you are the one who clearly needs help.  And yes, that's exactly what I said, because BULLYING the way you do, does drive folks (children and adults) to take their own lives.  So, again, stop BULLYING.  If you can't offer kindness and truly help others, stop trying to make them feel small so that you can feel better about your sad life. We all know that misery loves company, but try taking a different approach and see how things work out for you.

It's been clear for the past couple of days that something or someone has hurt you tremendously, and we're sorry that happened to you.  But, instead of using your pain to try and make others feel as bad as you do, turn it around, and use it to make others feel good.  

Have an amazing day!

"Gracious words are a honeycomb sweet to the soul and healing to the bones." ~Proverbs 16:24

Hello? You are on a thread that I started. You clearly have something going on with you and for that, I hope you get help. But you keep notching it up a level and now you are at at a level that no one is going to cosign. No one is bullying you. Every interaction I have only responded to you, nothing else. If you don't want the smoke, don't put your hand in the oven. And it was nice smoke. It's just not like a warm pat on the back. That's not me.

I have responded to thousands of posts over the years. I like to help people. Not everyone takes it the right way, but that's not a me thing, it's a them (and you) thing. To bring up bullying and suicide is not anything coming to me, it's showing off that you may need to seek some help if this works you up enough to talk about it.

I hope you are ok, but please stop posting. You are digging yourself a bigger and bigger hole each time. You will not "beat" me on posting. You came to this forum that I started, I am just responding.

If you go back and listen to the first time I was a guest on the BP Podcast (yes, I have been on twice and no that's not a brag, it's just a fact), a quarter of the show was about how people can succeed in the forums here. It might help you, just like this post should have helped you.

Either way, if you are feeling unstable because of it, please just lay it down and leave it alone. It's just entertainment to most of us and again, if you go and read the initial post, no one would know how you got to this point. No one.

[Jim K.]

Quote from @FR W.:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Quote from @Kevin S.:

If someone wants to BULLY and I happen to witness it, well, what a sad day for them.

what makes a forum where people can talk to other people openly is that people can voice their expression, sometimes with a little bit of bullying, I think that's acceptable if not going too extreme, I get bullied too after helping them to decompose problems. Sometimes you can't do anything other than just laugh.  But there are interesting fun vibes here at BP when specific people interact, I can even predict what they're going to say and what these two folks going to debate ;-) , the forum is like a fruit market, where everyone is throwing their opinion and then for an answer that you're looking for, you write down that answer in your brain. For some specific people, I try not to argue a lot because some folks have a relentless spirit to force their point lol but rest assured they are all loving real estate (and stock market lol) haha

Hi.  Fortunately, as I've stated, I don't find BULLYING on any level OK.  People kill themselves for even what some might call "light" BULLYING.  But, thank you for chiming in, and you're right, hopefully we all love RE and the stock market.  I sure do :)

This is a serious post? You just took a regular forum post to help people where you and your friend have been hyperbolic the entire time, with only me responding to you, to a bullying/suicide thing? Please seek the help you need.

Everyone sees now that you are the one who clearly needs help.  And yes, that's exactly what I said, because BULLYING the way you do, does drive folks (children and adults) to take their own lives.  So, again, stop BULLYING.  If you can't offer kindness and truly help others, stop trying to make them feel small so that you can feel better about your sad life. We all know that misery loves company, but try taking a different approach and see how things work out for you.

It's been clear for the past couple of days that something or someone has hurt you tremendously, and we're sorry that happened to you.  But, instead of using your pain to try and make others feel as bad as you do, turn it around, and use it to make others feel good.  

Have an amazing day!

"Gracious words are a honeycomb sweet to the soul and healing to the bones." ~Proverbs 16:24

Can I get an Amen?

Can I get a Hallelujah?

Can I get a donation?

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @Jim K.:

Quote from @FR W.:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Quote from @Kevin S.:

If someone wants to BULLY and I happen to witness it, well, what a sad day for them.

what makes a forum where people can talk to other people openly is that people can voice their expression, sometimes with a little bit of bullying, I think that's acceptable if not going too extreme, I get bullied too after helping them to decompose problems. Sometimes you can't do anything other than just laugh.  But there are interesting fun vibes here at BP when specific people interact, I can even predict what they're going to say and what these two folks going to debate ;-) , the forum is like a fruit market, where everyone is throwing their opinion and then for an answer that you're looking for, you write down that answer in your brain. For some specific people, I try not to argue a lot because some folks have a relentless spirit to force their point lol but rest assured they are all loving real estate (and stock market lol) haha

Hi.  Fortunately, as I've stated, I don't find BULLYING on any level OK.  People kill themselves for even what some might call "light" BULLYING.  But, thank you for chiming in, and you're right, hopefully we all love RE and the stock market.  I sure do :)

This is a serious post? You just took a regular forum post to help people where you and your friend have been hyperbolic the entire time, with only me responding to you, to a bullying/suicide thing? Please seek the help you need.

Everyone sees now that you are the one who clearly needs help.  And yes, that's exactly what I said, because BULLYING the way you do, does drive folks (children and adults) to take their own lives.  So, again, stop BULLYING.  If you can't offer kindness and truly help others, stop trying to make them feel small so that you can feel better about your sad life. We all know that misery loves company, but try taking a different approach and see how things work out for you.

It's been clear for the past couple of days that something or someone has hurt you tremendously, and we're sorry that happened to you.  But, instead of using your pain to try and make others feel as bad as you do, turn it around, and use it to make others feel good.  

Have an amazing day!

"Gracious words are a honeycomb sweet to the soul and healing to the bones." ~Proverbs 16:24

Can I get an Amen?

Can I get a Hallelujah?

Can I get a donation?

I thought this post was the donation. I guess I miscalculated that. :)

[FR W.]

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Quote from @FR W.:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Quote from @Kevin S.:

If someone wants to BULLY and I happen to witness it, well, what a sad day for them.

what makes a forum where people can talk to other people openly is that people can voice their expression, sometimes with a little bit of bullying, I think that's acceptable if not going too extreme, I get bullied too after helping them to decompose problems. Sometimes you can't do anything other than just laugh.  But there are interesting fun vibes here at BP when specific people interact, I can even predict what they're going to say and what these two folks going to debate ;-) , the forum is like a fruit market, where everyone is throwing their opinion and then for an answer that you're looking for, you write down that answer in your brain. For some specific people, I try not to argue a lot because some folks have a relentless spirit to force their point lol but rest assured they are all loving real estate (and stock market lol) haha

Hi.  Fortunately, as I've stated, I don't find BULLYING on any level OK.  People kill themselves for even what some might call "light" BULLYING.  But, thank you for chiming in, and you're right, hopefully we all love RE and the stock market.  I sure do :)

This is a serious post? You just took a regular forum post to help people where you and your friend have been hyperbolic the entire time, with only me responding to you, to a bullying/suicide thing? Please seek the help you need.

Everyone sees now that you are the one who clearly needs help.  And yes, that's exactly what I said, because BULLYING the way you do, does drive folks (children and adults) to take their own lives.  So, again, stop BULLYING.  If you can't offer kindness and truly help others, stop trying to make them feel small so that you can feel better about your sad life. We all know that misery loves company, but try taking a different approach and see how things work out for you.

It's been clear for the past couple of days that something or someone has hurt you tremendously, and we're sorry that happened to you.  But, instead of using your pain to try and make others feel as bad as you do, turn it around, and use it to make others feel good.  

Have an amazing day!

"Gracious words are a honeycomb sweet to the soul and healing to the bones." ~Proverbs 16:24

Hello? You are on a thread that I started. You clearly have something going on with you and for that, I hope you get help. But you keep notching it up a level and now you are at at a level that no one is going to cosign. No one is bullying you. Every interaction I have only responded to you, nothing else. If you don't want the smoke, don't put your hand in the oven. And it was nice smoke. It's just not like a warm pat on the back. That's not me.

I have responded to thousands of posts over the years. I like to help people. Not everyone takes it the right way, but that's not a me thing, it's a them (and you) thing. To bring up bullying and suicide is not anything coming to me, it's showing off that you may need to seek some help if this works you up enough to talk about it.

I hope you are ok, but please stop posting. You are digging yourself a bigger and bigger hole each time. You will not "beat" me on posting. You came to this forum that I started, I am just responding.

If you go back and listen to the first time I was a guest on the BP Podcast (yes, I have been on twice and no that's not a brag, it's just a fact), a quarter of the show was about how people can succeed in the forums here. It might help you, just like this post should have helped you.

Either way, if you are feeling unstable because of it, please just lay it down and leave it alone. It's just entertainment to most of us and again, if you go and read the initial post, no one would know how you got to this point. No one.

So happy that you were on a podcast!  And, it sounds like you're the one worked up here.  You're the only one who's been spewing the ugly, and then coming back with these "leading" posts (asking for others to chime in and help you).  Example of your leading:  "No one here is going to like you if you keep talking back to me."  You're so rattled right now, you're spitting fire.

Breathe, and have an amazing day!

Oh, and stop BULLYING.  I'm sure that many would be just fine without your brand of "help."