How Drew Pulled 6 Deals From His First Direct Mail Campaign With Ryan Dossey (Mentor) and Drew Wiard (Mentee)—Part 2

Ashley:
This is the Real Estate Rookie, show 13.

Drew:
There were 85 leads that came in. Of those 85, we had nearly 50 appointments that we connected on with people. And of those, we put 25 offers out, and maybe here in a bit, we’ll talk about some of the fruits of those offers.

Ashley:
My name is Ashley Kehr, and I am here with my cohost Felipe, tiny biceps, Mejia. And today is the best day of my life because one of our guests called him out on his flexing on the Gram.

Felipe:
Okay. First of all, the only reason he called me out is because I called Ashley out saying that I am Ashley’s MVP. So, they were defending the notorious Ashley.

Ashley:
Everyone knows you’re my MVP though.

Felipe:
Everyone knows that. So, today we actually have part two of Ryan and Drew show. And if you haven’t heard Ryan and Drew show, they’re episode nine from our show. So, just go back BiggerPockets Rookie nine, where you can hear that. But today we get the second part of that where well, actually Drew goes into the deal that he actually was able to close, and what he’s doing, how he’s getting financing, is he wholesaling it? Tune in. And he’s going to explain how we ran through all of that. And I love this because he goes step by step on how to wholesale a deal, from what he puts on the paper, to how he closes the deal, to what he does after the deal. It’s great.

Ashley:
Yeah. And what stood out to me is how they focused on this on the last episode to, and on here is their business ethics too. A lot of their business can be word of mouth. Like they said, even people that say no to them are leaving them five star reviews on the Better Business Bureau. And I like all these little tidbits they drop about how you want to build rapport with these people. And you want to leave with that rapport too. You don’t want to leave the bad blood.
You don’t want to threaten these people, like, “This is your last chance to get this offer, we’re walking away.” So, I like learning about their business ethics too. And then Drew, it was just fascinating to see how short of a time he’s gotten six deals already from doing this direct mail campaign. And like Felipe said, he will take us through one of those.

Felipe:
Yeah, absolutely. So, let’s bring Drew and Ryan in.

Ashley:
Drew and Ryan, we had you guys on a couple of weeks ago, and we started out with talking about the marketing you’re doing to try to find some deals for Drew. Do you want to recap that for us?

Drew:
Yeah. So, episode nine, we did a couple of weeks ago. And I’ve done a fair amount of real estate in the past, lots of different transactions, but when it comes to marketing direct to sellers, or their homes, a lot of the just modern ways of putting yourself, and your business out there, I was very much a rookie on that front. And so, began seeking out mentors, and people who could really teach me that niche that I was missing. And Ryan was one of those people that we landed on.

Felipe:
No, that’s really good. And for anyone that wants to hear what the whole show was about, you can go to biggerpockets.com/rookienine, and then you can see everything that we talked about. Ryan and Drew, Ryan being a professional, Drew, being a newbie just in this field. And what it took to overcome some of the things that he had to go through. So, if you want to go back and listen to the whole show, like I said, biggerpockets.com/rookienine. That’s where you can find that. Basically, drew, is a very busy professional, but still wants to find off market deals. Did some research, found Ryan, and Ryan was like, “Yeah.”
Because Ryan’s a professional in this field, Drew was like, “Okay, perfect. So, I’m going to get with him, and get this going.” Seeking out a mentor is really important. And then, Drew, was able to set up a local brand, and online presence, just get some really good, positive reviews using the how to win friends, and influence people type of marketing. Is that about right, Drew?

Drew:
Yeah, I think you nailed it.

Felipe:
Put a nice little bow on that.

Ashley:
Yeah, so today, I want to go on and focus about your first direct mail campaign. How did that go, and where are you now with it?

Drew:
Sure. So, as we mentioned in the last round, the first type of mailing that we started with was absentee owners with equity. And we’d just done that first campaign, and truth be told it exploded in ways that I … I mean, I knew it would be positive, but it has really took off. I mean, just to put some specific numbers to it, I think from that first mailing of about 2,600 mailers that we sent out, there were 85 leads that came in. Of those 85, we had nearly 50 appointments that we connected on with people.

Ashley:
That’s great.

Drew:
Yeah. And of those, we put 25 offers out, and maybe here in a bit, we’ll talk about some of the fruits of those offers.

Felipe:
Hey, Drew, what does your mailpiece say? Like what specifically does it say?

Ryan:
We’d have to break your legs. No, it’s really pretty straightforward. So, like you touched on, it’s how to win friends and influence people based. So, we try to kick off the conversation with the person. We never call out if we know something’s going on. So, if it’s like a foreclosure mailing or not, like, “Sorry to hear that you’re about to lose your home. We’d like to take it from you.” Right? Our copy is pretty much the same on everything. It’s a dear John, and Sarah, what are your plans for one, two, three main street?
We’ve prepared a cash offer, we’d like to discuss with you. And then, Drew uses our answering service. So, please give my office a call, though they’re not expecting to talk to Drew. Phone number, thanks in advance, signed by Drew. And then it’s branded, ties back to the Carrot site, has his website, and stuff on it.

Felipe:
Well, that sounds too simple to work, Ryan, what do you mean? That sounds way too easy-

Ryan:
Yeah, it’s … You know? There’s no need to do these like expiring offer, final notice mailers that look like a check when they open them. Like nobody wants to start off a relationship feeling deceived, or threatened, or scared. It’s just my take on it. I mean, does it work? Sure. It must, or people wouldn’t do them, but it’s just not the business I want to run.

Drew:
Well, and to that point prior to connecting with Ryan, and learning from his knowledge, I’ve done a lot of direct mail on my own. I don’t know that it’s been very systematized, or very organized, but we did have some of those canned messages where we spoke to whatever the hardship or the issue was. And there was some fruit from it, but not nearly like we’re seeing now. And I think there’s value in just putting a basic message out there, and people seem to respond to it much better than they did [inaudible 00:06:44] in times past.

Ryan:
I think the problem when you call things out … So, my brother’s father-in-law passed away a couple of weeks back, and one of my buddies mailed his mother-in-law with a, “Oh, so sorry for your loss. I’d like to buy your house.” And let’s just say the feedback she provided was not great. So-

Ashley:
Yeah, would not expect that to be.

Ryan:
… Nobody wants a, sorry for your loss, from a stranger.

Felipe:
What’s a-

Ashley:
Yeah. Especially, when they’re trying to get something out of it at the end. I mean, even if he had good intentions of, “I’m going to help her by purchasing the house.” It just doesn’t come off that way when you call out what’s going on in their life.

Felipe:
Yeah. Hey, Drew, let me ask you a quick question there, bro. What’s a good response rate for the mailers that you sent out> So, let’s say you send out 2,000, 5,000, give us a real life example of how many you’ve sent out in the past, and you’re like, “Okay, this would be a successful response rate.”

Drew:
Oh man, that’s a fantastic question. It’s tough to put a number to. If I’m going to send a batch out that big, in times past, I would hope to pull one or two deals out of that. I think I would’ve felt that would have been a success. Now, this round has been much more successful, so, it’s probably realigning my expectations. We plan to start mailing some different lists going forward. And it’ll be really interesting to see, and what response rates we get from different niche lists, and things like that. So, I don’t know that I have a magic number for you but I can tell you it’s exceeded my expectations.

Ryan:
So, I can speak to that a little bit. So, the average that I’ve seen with our clients all across the board is between one to 3%, on average. So, if they’re below that 1% on something like an absentee owner campaign, that’s perfectly okay. We just know we need to go more niche down in that market. We need to get a little bit more creative than just they own a house they don’t live in. Right? There’s obviously outliers. We’ve had six and 7% response rates as well. But I would say with our pieces on average about one and a half is what we normally see, but I would caution you not to focus on the metrics like that, that don’t matter.
Really good way to look at this, let’s say you have two marketing campaigns that go out, one gets a 1/10th of a response rate, the other gets a 10% of a response rate, but you don’t get any deals on the 10% response rate. Well, which one would you probably want to mail again? I want to mail the one that produced fruit, even if I wish it had produced more leads. So, I typically, focus on the number of pieces sent per deal, or the amount of money spent per deal, per list is how I look at it.

Ashley:
Okay, cool. Now, Drew, let’s talk about so what’s happened, you had the 25 people you set up meetings with, how are you making those offers? I mean, are you actually writing up a contract, a letter of intent, or is it verbal that you’re doing the offers with these people?

Drew:
Sure. It depends on whether I’m physically there with people or not. Rapport is a big deal, right? And so, when you meet with these people, getting to know them and understand their situation, and understanding the bigger picture is important. And so, I try to stay flexible, and feel out the situation. If they are ready for an offer because they are done, and they need to be out in two weeks, then I’m going to give them one on the spot. If other folks really pushed back hard, and they’re just not quite ready, I’ll make it available. I’ll let them know, “Hey, if you’re interested in it, I can make you an offer today. But if you need to think about it, I can followup with you tomorrow, day after.” And put the timetable on them. So, I don’t know if that’s the best approach, but it’s been fruitful so far.

Felipe:
Drew, how do you know what you’re going to offer? Like how do you analyze that deal, that market? And how do you make a fair offer to the potential? Like how do you come up with that number?

Drew:
Sure. So, I think everyone’s answer to this is going to be a little bit different in their specific market. And of course, with Coronavirus, and all of that, that’s probably influenced at least my strategy a little bit. But generally speaking, I’m looking at what I think the value of that house is. I’ll begin at about 70 to 75% of what that property is minus whatever repairs I think that the property needs. One of the houses that we looked at, it literally needs nothing. I mean, I could list it today, and it would sell.
But they own three houses, and there’s been an illness in the family, and they just need to focus and be done with this house. And so, in that scenario, I didn’t have to discount for repairs, and things like that. So, I gave them a 75% offer based on the current value of the house.

Felipe:
Beautiful. Nothing like making 25%. I like that because a lot of people don’t realize that people are selling their homes for different reasons, and it’s not always necessarily money. Right? Sometimes you would just want to get out of it because they have to sell it because I don’t know a death in the family, a divorce, these ugly things that do happen, but sometimes people just need to get out of it because it’s court ordered, or they have to split it, or whatever.
It’s not always the pressure of money that they have to sell it. Right? Sometimes people are moving, and they just need to get rid of the home. And they care about the money obviously, but more important they’re like, “Man, I really just want to get out of here in the next 30 days because I have to move or whatever the case may be.”

Ryan:
So, one thing I would throw out just for anybody who’s going to go direct to seller is like the concept of motivated sellers is a lie. It’s very, very rare that somebody calls me, and they’re like, “The court said I have to sell in two weeks, so what’s your number?” Honestly, a lot of the people that choose to sell through us are wealthy, and just don’t want to have to deal with it. And a lot of people also assume that the properties are going to be just like totally destroyed, that’s not the case. I mean, like Drew mentioned, this one needed nothing. We flipped a condo last week that we made like 9,700 bucks on overnight, that we didn’t have to put anything into it repair-wise. It was literally move in ready. So, we use the expression around our companies that we’re just looking for reasonable people.
Somebody that understands that in order to get cash for a property, and close on the date they pick, they’re going to have to give something up. And that’s going to be a cash. Right? And so, I want people, if they start to do a direct mail campaign, they’re going to get really frustrated with like, nobody’s motivated. Well, they’re typically not motivated. They’re typically, start out asking too much money. We explain where we’re at, make the offer. They tell us no. We followup a few times. And then we come up a grand or two, they drop 20 or 30, and bam, we have a deal, but it took a month to get it there.

Ashley:
That’s really interesting to hear because I’m a big believer in, it doesn’t hurt to ask, and you should always ask. And I feel like a lot of people, myself included, are thinking about these motivated sellers, who are the people in foreclosure? Who are the people that aren’t taking care of their property, that can’t afford to upkeep it anymore? But that’s a really great insight is it’s not always those people who are willing to sell. It’s just people want to be done, or they want the cash, and the quick closing.
And I was talking to a realtor the other day, and she said, “It’s not always about the monetary amount of the offer. It’s about the terms of the offer that can make such a huge impact on whether this person’s going to accept your offer or not.” So, I want everyone to really think about that, and let that register, but, Drew, let’s get back to you and your deals, what came out of it? I’m dying to know.

Drew:
Sure. Do you want one specific example, or the big picture?

Felipe:
I’d give the big picture, and then dive into one.

Ashley:
Yeah. That’s great.

Drew:
Okay. So, right now, we have three that we’ve done from start to finish. And I say start to finish because we’ve purchased it, and either wholesaled it, or I’ve kept it as a rental, or done some creative buy and hold, something like that. So, start to finish, we have three. We have three more under contract.

Ashley:
Congratulations.

Drew:
Yeah. Thanks. It’s pretty exciting. Honestly-

Ryan:
That’s insane.

Ashley:
So, let’s [crosstalk 00:14:56] refresh everyone-

Felipe:
Ryan sounds jealous.

Ashley:
… Yeah. Whoever didn’t listen to the first episode yet, let’s refresh them, and even me, when did you start doing this mailing campaign?

Drew:
I think it went on like the very end of March.

Ashley:
Yeah. That’s awesome.

Drew:
And given that it’s, what? Mid May now.

Felipe:
So, let’s just highlight that date real quick. So, during COVID, while most people are like, “Oh, nobody’s going to buy or sell their house.” Or whatever, you’ve done six deals. I mean, Ryan sounds a little jelly there.

Drew:
And you know maybe [crosstalk 00:15:26]-

Ryan:
I mean, now, we’ve done deals too, but …

Drew:
And I’ve wondered, are people more motivated right now during COVID? And I don’t get that impression, not more than what I’ve talked to other people. So, it’s not like I … I mean, if anything, I think more people are kind of locking themselves down, and holding onto their money, their houses, and property. If anything, I don’t think it’s the opposite.

Felipe:
Interesting. So, Drew, take us through the process of working a lead, a step by step, like a lead comes in, they’re interested. What do you do? What does that look like step by step from the moment they got interest, to you closing the deal? Give us all the secrets.

Drew:
Yep. So, for most of these, I start with a phone call back to these individuals. And really again, rapport is the biggest thing. So, it’s really just getting to know them, letting them tell their story. Some people will be motivated, and they’ll come right out and tell you that. Other people, they just want to know what your offer is. And so, the more I can get to know them, and explain to them who we are, and what we do, that’s step number one. And so, then that conversation could branch lots of different ways. Some people want to get immediately to numbers. Other people just want to get to tell their story because everyone likes to tell their story. Right? My goal though, is to try to set up a face-to-face appointment with them, at the house, before the end of that call. And most of the time we’re able to achieve that but not every time

Ashley:
Ryan, I want to ask you last time you had mentioned that you can get people as many deals but they need to be able to close those deals, and be able to get in front of the person. Can you give us some tips that you have given Drew, and that you give other people as to how to interact with these people when you are meeting with them during that first engagement?

Ryan:
Yeah. So, I mean, Drew, touched on it a little bit. Rapport is obviously the biggest thing. So, it’s funny because I’ve been on appointments, and then it’s like, you notice … The one I have in mind in particular was a older, retired vet. And I noticed he had like 15 bottles of Johnnie Walker Blue on like a shelf, of all like empty bottles. So, it was like, “Okay, A, this guy likes to drink, but B he’s into Johnnie Walker.” So, I just acknowledged it, you know? “Oh, they make great scotch.” And he just lights up.
And it was like that was his thing. And I kid you not, he goes, “Oh man. Yeah, that’s my one vice I’ve got. Hey, let me show you my stock portfolio.” Pulls out his portfolio, drops it on the counter, and goes, “I have a million dollars in the stock market. My goal, Ryan, is to move to the Philippines and get me a wife or two.” And I was like-

Felipe:
Or two, what?

Ryan:
“Okay, no judgment there.” He goes, “Yeah.” He goes, “Old guy like me with a million dollars, I’m going to live like a king for the rest of my years. And I just need to sell this house to get on my way, as you can see, I don’t need the money.” And before that, the whole interaction was very caged off. He was very just like, “Yes, walk through the home, let me know what questions you have.”
I mean, we just flip the switch. So, we’re always looking for what’s their thing? Is it a pet? Is it traveling? Is it cooking? Is it … We’ve noticed particularly gentlemen with turbo diesel trucks, like that’s their thing. So, you notice a turbo diesel Dually sitting out front, and you comment on it. And all of a sudden they’re like, “Oh, heck.” Like bro down with you right away. Right? So, it’s looking for that. And then similar on the closing percentage, beefing that upside, we use the same approach we do with our marketing. It’s not this like, “Well, I can only buy one house today. Is it going to be yours? Or is it going to be my next appointment? Let’s go. We need to get this signed.”
Like we’re not pushing people into anything that they don’t want to do, which is great. Because then we don’t have people calling us the next day asking if they can get out of the contract they signed. So, our approach is very much like, “Hey, Mr. Seller, my contractors are going to charge me X to remodel this property, knowing that, what do you think is fair?” So, we’re not telling them, this is what your house is worth. Because the problem with that, you ask five different realtors, what it’s worth, and you’re going to get five different answers. We’re not telling them your house needs $20,000 worth of work because then they’re going to be like, “Oh, well my, buddy Bubba, who I pay in beer will do it for $3.” Right?
So, by making it very, “This is what makes sense for us. This is where we would need to be.” We’re also protecting our integrity. One thing I learned early on when I would throw out like your house needs $20,000 worth of work, anybody else could make me a liar if they disagreed with that number, by telling them my contractors are going to charge me X to get this into the condition of my other properties, they can’t argue with that. Right? Like, “Hey, you may be able to get it done for less. I’m just telling you the guys I’m comfortable with, that do all my projects are going to charge me this. So, what do you think is fair?”
So, it’s very kind of, how to win friends, and influence people based. And then just lasts. Pro tip, I’ll throw out there on that, we’ll use anything they mentioned as a rebuttal. So, if they throw out a, “Well, I’ll just list it.” Well, you told me yourself earlier that you tried that in the past and the house didn’t sell. So, where would you need to be in order to make this work? So, it’s you mentioned, like just asking, one of the phrases we have is just see what you can get away with.
So, if somebody tells you, no, that’s not the end of the conversation. See if you can get a second no, and then maybe a third. And it’s funny because some of our guys will come back, and they’ll be like, “Dude, they finally said, yes.” It’s like, “Yeah, you just got to keep pushing.”

Felipe:
Yeah, that’s really good. But I feel like in most of your conversation there, you were talking about rapport, diesel truck, the guy moving to the Philippines, two wives. I don’t know about that one, but whatever-

Ryan:
I judged him a little bit.

Felipe:
A little bit. Yeah, just a little. That million’s going to go real quick. And so, building the rapport is super, super crucial. But, Drew, back to what we were talking about, so, let’s get back to that step by step, okay. So, you built rapport with a person, you hopefully have got a face-to-face meeting, now what?

Drew:
Yup. So, even before that first call, I’m aware of what I think the property’s approximately worth. But once we get that appointment, then I really dig into it before I go making sure that I’m pretty confident in what I feel that the neighborhood, and the house is worth. And then we go to that appointment. And again, hopefully, they’re willing to take us through, and show things, but I let them lead. Right? At least I do. You know what they’re comfortable with showing, then I’ll take a look at. And some people are real nervous and say, “Oh, our house isn’t clean, or it looks terrible.” And I just don’t look, I’ve seen some of the worst, however bad your house is, it can’t be as bad as some of them that I’ve been through.
But we go through it, and by the end of the appointment, either, I like for them to try to put their number out there first, if there’s any way to get them to say what they’re thinking. Because that gives me an idea of, now, are you $50,000 way over asking, or way over what it’s worth, or what I’m thinking? And sometimes that’s hard to do, but if I can get them to give me an idea of what they’re looking for, then I can start the discussions of, “Well, here’s what I’m thinking.” Admittedly, one of the hardest lessons for me to learn in these last six weeks is, I tend to let my number be too high right out of the gate. And I have proven to myself with time, and practice that if you start low, it gives you more room to come up, which makes you look more gracious, and more agreeable.

Felipe:
Why do you feel like we do that? Why do you feel like you come in too strong right off the bat offering like this top dollar where you don’t have any flexibility?

Drew:
Sure. When you go to build rapport, you want to have a good relationship with them, right? You want to be that guy, or that girl who’s going to either help fix their problem, or just have a good relationship. And I think for me, it’s the fear of low-balling someone, and immediately ruining that relationship. As I push myself, I’ve learned that you can still be really honest with what you need for it to work for your business. And people don’t seem to get too upset if you’ve done a good job of listening to them, and hearing what they have to say while you’re there.

Felipe:
Okay. Awesome. So, what happens? Say you’re in there, great thing. Hopefully, you haven’t got cussed out of the house. Let’s say you guys agree on a number. What next?

Drew:
Yeah. If we agree, and it’s that easy, I always have purchase agreements with me either on paper. I tend to do everything electronically, but a lot of people don’t do email, things like that. So, if I’m there and they’re agreeable on site, we try to knock it out while we’re right there. If you can tell that that seller is very tech savvy, and they prefer to have it done electronically, I let them know, “Okay, I’m going to jump on the truck and head home. And you’ll hear from me within two hours.” And if I tell them it’s two hours, then I absolutely get back to them within two hours.

Ashley:
Drew, do you ever give a deposit to them like that first day when you’re there?

Drew:
I personally don’t.

Ashley:
No.

Ryan:
Heck no. That was a good question.

Drew:
No, it is a good question. I think a lot of rookies ask, how do we get the ball rolling on it? What I do is on my purchase agreement, of course, there’s a field for earnest money. And I’ll put a modest amount for earnest money, but in my world, that gets sent to the title company, along with the purchase agreement.

Felipe:
Yeah. Because good luck getting earnest money back from a seller if you do an inspection and find out you can’t do the deal, they’re like, “No, I’m just going to keep it.” It’s like-

Ashley:
Well, do you guys do an inspection period too on, or does that really depend on the deal?

Ryan:
I do on every deal, I mean. Yeah, so in my business I have people who go and actually do acquisitions for me at this point. I’m not going to meet with sellers anymore, but they’re not contractors. So, they may come up with the estimate of this needs 30,000, and we may get in there, and be like, “This needs 80.” How did you botch this this bad? Right? So, I mean, we tell all of our sellers it’s an inspection period, but we’re not doing like a retail inspection. Normally, what that looks like is we’re going to walk through with our project manager or a GC, and just verify our numbers. And we’re also pretty clear with them like, “Don’t start to move out or anything until that’s done.”
Like once that’s done, you have a done deal, but if we do that, and find foundation damage, or something like that, we’re either going to have to lower the price, or we may not be able to come to terms. But we just set that precedent of really clearly explaining what that is, that way somebody doesn’t move out, and then the inspection doesn’t go well.

Ashley:
Yeah. That’s interesting.

Felipe:
Let me butt in there real quick. So, here in the state of Tennessee, based on inspection, you have to have a licensed inspector. So, how does that differ state-to-state? So, like for example, on my contracts, I always put, “Based on inspection, I’m going to go through this deal basically, if I don’t find something crazy.” But if I don’t bring in a licensed inspector, then I can’t follow through with that based on inspection. How does that work with you guys?

Ryan:
Yeah. I mean, that’s not an Indiana thing. I’ve never heard of that before, so-

Felipe:
Because I can’t just have my uncle tell me, “Hey, this isn’t going to work.” And then me go back to the seller and say, “Hey, based on inspection, this isn’t going to work.” If they go, come back, and say, “Okay, well, who was the licensed person that did that?” Then I’m in trouble. So, I have to make sure that I pay a licensed inspector.

Ryan:
I mean, you would be doing full-blown retail inspections. We fortunately don’t have to do that, which I think is better for the sellers, as well as for us. I mean, I’ll be honest, we’ve bought some deals. I’ve never met an investor who’s never gone over budget. We’ve bought some deals-

Felipe:
That’s true.

Ryan:
… But had we done a full-blown inspection? We may not have bought the deal. So, it’s better for them that my GC missed something-

Felipe:
Been there.

Ryan:
… Right?

Ashley:
Yeah.

Felipe:
Yeah.

Ryan:
But yeah, no. I mean, one thing I will throw out because this is the rookie show, don’t use BS escape clauses of partner approval, or funding partner. Like truly it should be a matter of as long as the property matches the conditions you’re expecting, you’ll move forward with the deal.

Felipe:
I like that. Thanks for the explanation.

Ashley:
I want to mention too to anyone that last week on Rookie, show 12, we actually did have a home inspector. If you guys haven’t listened yet, it’s Rose Buckley. So, go back and listen to that episode. If you want to learn more about home inspections, she’s a licensed inspector. And she gives really great tips as to why you can use one for different properties. But I want to go back to those steps. So, you’ve gotten to the inspection part. You’ve done your deal and now … Or, Drew, did you even say, are you doing inspections?

Drew:
For me, it depends on my house. Again, at my REIA, my Real Estate Investors Association, that’s always we encourage everyone to do inspections. Maybe the day comes where you feel confident enough that you can go without. And so, every now and then I might go without it. But once we’ve got it under contract, we send the contract, and earnest money to the title company. If we’re going to do inspections, I schedule them immediately, because most of these transactions, they move pretty quick. Ideally, they move pretty quick. So, we try to get the ball rolling on inspections. And from then, the title company, at least here, my state title company keeps in touch with me to let me know when we are clear to close. And we schedule it, and head that way.

Felipe:
So, now you’ve done the inspection, you are clear to close, then what happens? I mean, you wholesale it, you keep it as a rental. How do you decide what you’re going to do with this property? Do you know prior to even getting it under contract? And then how do you wholesale it to someone else?

Drew:
Yeah, so, I know what my plan is long before I ever put my name on a contract. If I don’t have a very specific plan with at least two or three exit strategies in case option number one doesn’t pan out … If you don’t have that, you probably shouldn’t be making your offer until you know. At least have your plan. Your plan might not pan out the way you want, but that’s how we approach it.

Ashley:
I think every episode we’ve done lately, everyone’s talking about exit strategies. It’s been a very common theme and very [crosstalk 00:29:39]-

Felipe:
If you only have one it’s a good way to donate your earnest.

Drew:
Yeah. So, most of what I do is I like to hold on to most of what I can, I will wholesale some out. What I’ve done so far is more of hoteling where I use my money to actually pay for the property. And then I might sell it immediately to another cash investor. But maybe Ryan can speak to best practices for wholesaling because admittedly, this is an opportunity for me to learn, and grow. I haven’t learned the art of getting that property under contract, and then letting that seller know, “Hey, I’m going to sell this to someone else.” And what that process looks like.

Felipe:
Tag Ryan.

Ryan:
Yeah. So, similar to Drew, I love hoteling. If you have the cash or the private money for it, you can pretty much always make more money-

Felipe:
Wait, what’s hoteling? We went from wholesaling to hoteling.

Ryan:
It’s basically a flip that you do nothing to. So, you close on the property, turn around and list it on the MLS. It’s funny though because every time I use it, people are like, “Are you misspelling wholesaling?” I’m like, “No, it’s different.” So, when it comes to wholesaling, similar to Drew, I have multiple exit strategies. So, it is extremely rare that we pull out of a purchase and sale agreement. And comically, we’re actually the people a lot of sellers in our market go to when somebody else who’s trying to wholesale can’t get the deal done. Right? And we actually just got one of those back this week.
So, if we go under contract on the property, we want it to be such a good deal that if I can’t find a buyer for it, I’m comfortable buying it. Now, that’s bit me a few times, but I would rather be a man of my word than be known as the guy who makes offers and then pulls out all the time. Right? So, my favorite way to find buyers for these deals, it’s market-specific if they have the data or not, but we use a tool called PropStream. And you can run a search for basically sold MLS listings that went to investors or absentee owners, or corporate buyers. So, we’re basically trying to find investors who bought off the market.
You can then export out that data, and in some markets they’ll even have like the emails and phone numbers right there. In other markets, you have to go Google those realtors’ names and call them. But we’ll sort it look for the most popular ones, call them, “Hey Ashley, I noticed you’ve sold five properties to investors in the past six months. Do you still have investors looking to buy? I’ve got one in the same zip code.” Incredible way to move your deals. That’s like one of my “secrets” if you will.

Ashley:
Yeah, that’s a really great tip. I wouldn’t have thought of that because even for myself, when I first started out, I had no idea how to find a wholesaler or network one where if my realtor would have came to me and said, “Hey, I know a guy that has a deal in the area you will like to buy.” That would have been great for me too [crosstalk 00:32:37] connections-

Ryan:
Yeah. We typically will bribe them a little bit, “Hey, going commission is two and a half. I’ll pay you three, or I’ll pay you four.” On like low-end properties, which we get in Indiana, if I’ve got a $30,000 house, there’s times I’ve thrown out a 10% BAC, where they’re like, “Oh my gosh, I’m going to make three grand.” Right?

Ashley:
Yeah.

Ryan:
I’m now their favorite person. So, who do you think they go to next time they have a deal, or next time they have a buyer that’s looking for something? So, it’s, I think a lot of people that aren’t licensed are hesitant to network with people who are licensed. And I think that’s a huge mistake. So, yeah.

Felipe:
Man, that’s gold right there. That makes so much sense. I’m going to definitely go back, and figure out exactly how to do that because same thing, I’d love if a wholesaler and my realtor were in cahoots, and would just send me everything. Personally, everyone makes money, the wholesaler, the realtor, and then me with the rental property. So-

Ryan:
I have a video on it that I can give you guys the link to if you want to throw in like show notes or whatever that walks through like step by step click here, click here, kind of a thing.

Felipe:
Yeah, that’s [crosstalk 00:33:40].

Ashley:
That’s awesome. Yeah. So, we can put that in biggerpockets.com/rookie13, if anyone wants to check out that video. So, thank you, Ryan.

Ryan:
Yeah.

Felipe:
Thanks for that, Ryan. Hey, Ryan, so, what are your tips to Drew when it came to building rapport and negotiating? So, it seems like those two seem to be the most important part of this, building rapport, and negotiating the deal. So, what tips did you give Drew to accomplish this, and just be very successful?

Ryan:
So, for somebody who’s done as much real estate as I have, I’m an awful negotiator.

Ashley:
That’s funny because I would have thought it was the opposite. I would have thought you would have been great at that.

Ryan:
No, when I bought my wife her Range Rover, they’re like, “This is the price.” And I was like, “Okay.” I’m like-

Felipe:
That’s terrible.

Ryan:
… I wasn’t going to do the whole like, “Oh, I’m going to leave.”

Felipe:
That’s terrible.

Ryan:
That was horrible. So, for me, what I really advise people on is just be conversational. Treat them like a person. And honestly, treat the relationship like you’re making a friend, not like you’re seeing what you can get out of this because people can feel that difference. Like we tell sellers all the time, even if we can’t come to terms, I want you to be better off just having met me. And we’ve even had sellers leave us like Better Business Bureau, and Google reviews of like, “These guys are the best people I’ve ever met. We couldn’t come to terms.” Like who’s somebody who tells you no to your offer, and then goes and leaves you a review?
So, the big thing that I really push our guys on is don’t take the first no, like I think a lot of people, myself included were raised that no means absolutely not. Right? It doesn’t mean ask me again. So, for me early on in my career, I really struggled with like, I’m here, and they’re like, “Oh no.” It was like, “Okay, cool. Next lead.” My business exploded when I started to go back, and I’m hearing you say no but did you have a counter? Or how did you get to that number? So, it’s really just like keeping the conversation flowing. So, even like our negotiation stuff, I mean, I outlined our process. It’s, “This is our offer because this is what my crews are going to charge me. What do you think is fair? Can we do a deal here?”
And then just keeping that conversation flowing. It’s one reason I love making offers in-person, if you can, because it’s really awkward to be like, “Oh, okay.” And then just like get in your vehicle and leave. Whereas if you’re in person like, “Okay, cool. Now, I can definitely respect that. You mentioned your mortgage is 90,000, and I’m only a few grand above that, but you also told me that you’ve got a job transfer coming up in a month. What do you plan on doing instead?” Or-

Ashley:
I really like that advice a lot because even when I’ve done deals, if I submit a low-ball offer, they’ll send nothing back because they’re just so mad, and insulted that I did that low offer, and then that’s through a realtor. So, for me to have that personal conversation with them makes it a lot easier to keep that dialogue going than them telling their realtor, then telling my realtor, then the realtor telling me, and it’s just not as personable. So, I’m really interested in this. Because I’ve never done anything like this where I’ve actually … I’ve had people approach me to buy their properties, but it’s never been me really approaching them.

Ryan:
You initiating the contact?

Ashley:
Yeah.

Ryan:
So, we’ll also do what I call anchoring. So, initially, what is your asking price? Right? And then maybe if they didn’t tell the answering service, or they didn’t tell you before they got out there, what number did you say you’re looking to get again? Right?

Ashley:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Like even if we know they didn’t give it to us, like let’s try for this again. But we’ll start right there on the appointment, at that number. Like Drew mentioned, they’re $50,000 over retail, we’ll like, “Oh wow. How did you get to that number?” You know? Because, typically, they didn’t do comps or market research. It’s just a number that they, “It’d be cool if somebody gave me a $100,000. Right?

Ashley:
Yeah.

Ryan:
So, we’ll go through that. And if they’re pretty firm, we’ll even push a little bit more of like, “Well, the house across the street and two doors down, just sold for $140,000 below your asking price, and appears to be in the same shape.” One of the phrases we use is we buy at fair market value based off the condition. Right? “So, if you’re looking to sell this property as is, I can pay fair market value, but man, I got to level with you. I can’t pay Mercedes money for something that’s a Toyota. Right? Like you wouldn’t do that either.” And they’re like, “No, I get that.” So, it’s, well, we try not to just sucker punch them.
If they’re like, “I need 400,000.” And we’re like, “Well, we’re at three grand.” We’re not trying to do that. But if they’re like, “Well, I’m at 400,000.” And stuff comps out at 30, you know? I mean, we have California investors that’ll call us, and they paid three, four times if something is worth cash because somebody was a dirt bag, and took advantage of them. And we’ll just level with them of like, “Hey, I’m so sorry this happened to you. But before we move any further in this conversation, you need to be aware that stuff we retail in this super rough neighborhood you’re in, doesn’t sell for more than 50 grand.”
So, there’s no way I’m going to be anywhere near the 120 you paid. So, we call it anchoring. But it’s really, I think, setting the proper expectation that way they don’t feel like sucker punched later on.

Felipe:
Listening to what you’re saying, reminds me of something that one of my mentors once told me, which was, “Felipe, when you’re talking … ” And this isn’t just business. This isn’t just real estate. This is life. He said, “Felipe, when you’re listening to somebody, when you’re talking to somebody, make sure that you’re listening to understand that person, not just listening to reply.” When you’re listening to reply to somebody, they know that. One, you’re cutting them off, and you’re ready to spit out whatever you’re going to spit out before they even done with their sentence. But when you listen to actually understand what somebody’s saying, you’re going to get a whole lot further.
Like, did you remember that he talked about his kid seven minutes ago? Why don’t you ask what his kid’s name was so that you can refer to him by the name? Or, Okay. He wants 100 grand. He thinks that’d be cool. Why do you think that’d be cool, sir? “Well, I’d like a brand new BMW.” “Well, let’s talk about that.” Right? So, listening to understand somebody, and their whys is probably more important than just what you’re going to reply to them.

Ryan:
I think it’s also important to look for what they don’t say. So, like Felipe mentioned the kid, if they mentioned, “Oh, you know, my son’s my entire world.” And you notice the property’s in pretty poor shape, and there’s not a kid’s bedroom set up, maybe this is a matter of he needs safer, more suitable housing to be able to spend … So, it’s like-

Felipe:
Love that.

Ryan:
… Most people aren’t going to come right out and be like, “Yeah, DCS said my kid can’t move back in because the property’s unsafe.” You know? So, you’ve got to look for like what are they not telling you? Most people aren’t going to be like, “Yeah. I can’t afford to replace the roof. So, that’s why it’s leaking.” They’re going to be like, “Oh yeah, that just started.” It’s like, “Ah, it’s been that way for a long time.” Right?

Ashley:
Yeah.

Ryan:
So, you got to look for like the signs and signals of what they’re not saying, or almost like reading between the lines.

Ashley:
Drew, I want to ask, okay, so, if you’ve gotten your six deals from that, that means a lot of people have told you no. What are you doing to followup with these people? I mean, Ryan, just talked a lot about how important it is that the first no doesn’t mean no. Is there a system you have in place that you’re using?

Drew:
Sure. We made reference in one of the last episode to the CRM that we use, or the system that helps us track all of our leads. Resimply or R-E simply is the program. And it’s fantastic. You can build all sorts of systems for tracking, systems that will send out-

Ryan:
Like Drip text messages.

Drew:
Yeah, for followups, and calendar reminders, and all sorts of things like that. And honestly, that was one of the key pieces I was missing prior to using the CRM. And everyone tells you, followup is key. You know if the answer is no today it might be yes tomorrow. And that’s something I’ve had to prove to myself that absolutely is true. And it’s taught me some patience as well, because I want to get that offer done right away, but I’ve had to learn to keep my numbers lower. Do the followup, the magic is in the followup a lot of the time.

Ryan:
Well, and if you jump real quick, right? If I’m like, “Hey, I’m at 200K.” They say no. And I’m like, “What about 240? Then I’m going to be like-

Drew:
You just gave them 40,000.

Ryan:
I’m going to be like, “What happens if I say no again?” Right? Like what comes next? Right? So, typically, with us, I mean, we’re going to come up a couple of grand, and try to get them to come down five to 10 for every thousand we move up. So, we’ll, “Hey, we worked with our contractors. We’re able to cut some things out of the budget. I know we were at 200, I can do like 203, if that’s agreeable to you, when would you like to close?” Or kind of assuming the sale a little bit, but yeah. You want to make sure you don’t A, give them your max right out the gate because then you’ve got nothing to come up with.
I think people like that back and forth other than me. Right? I just like to get horrible deals on depreciating luxury vehicles. But I think most people want to feel like they got a good deal. So, if they feel like they’ve worked you up, they feel better about coming down.

Ashley:
That’s a great point. Yeah.

Felipe:
I love that. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Terrible deal on your car though. That sucks.

Ryan:
Yeah. [crosstalk 00:43:00].

Felipe:
You probably should stick to wholesaling. All right. So, I want to ask, Drew, Drew, if you’re willing, will you walk us through, like step by step like you did a minute ago, but I want to hear a step by step on a real life one. So, you’ve done a couple of deals now-

Ashley:
Yeah, can you-

Felipe:
… Would you mind picking one and walk us through step by step on one of those with numbers and everything?

Ashley:
Yeah. I want to hear the numbers on it, if you don’t mind. Yeah. And refresh everyone what market you’re in too.

Drew:
Yeah, I was going to preface that with my numbers are tiny because Fort Wayne, Indiana is one of the cheapest places to live in the country. So, the first deal that we got, I got under contract for $23,000. And half of your listeners can’t buy a garage.

Felipe:
They’re like, “What?”

Drew:
So, I can appreciate that. But for what it’s worth, this is 100-year old house, Downtown. It’s in the path of progress though, which is very, very exciting. So, I purchased this for 23,000. We initially started talking about numbers about 18, 19. That’s where I started, but she was at 40, and we slowly worked together like what we talked about. Came to terms on that, and this house needs about $7,000 in rehab, and for a house that old that’s pretty fantastic. And that’s to get it rent ready. So, I was all into this property for about $30,000. And the property managers that I use, they’ve been doing those fixes right along the last couple of weeks, and just finished them up this week.

Ashley:
Wow. That’s great.

Drew:
Yeah. It actually went really quick, really quick. So, it got listed this week. We’re asking $800 per month. Now, admittedly, that’s a big number for the area, but like I had mentioned, there is a big industrial building that’s across the street from this, that here in Fort Wayne, this is going to be a massive rebuilding of new commercial, residential parks, fountains. For those of us who are local, this is a very exciting project. And these people get to watch it right out of their front windows.

Felipe:
They’re going to make Fort Wayne feel less like Fort Wayne.

Ashley:
Good. So, you have it listed now for rent?

Drew:
I do. Yeah. And it just went up yesterday. So, we’ll see how it pans out. This deal was small enough that I just used my own money to pay for, but I have a private lender who now that it’s stabilized, or has been rehab, has provided the funds so that I can pull my money back out of that. I don’t know if you want to talk about the details of that, but that’s been a really good strategy for us.

Felipe:
Yeah. Dig into that a little.

Ashley:
So, this would be like your long-term financing he would do?

Drew:
Yeah. Which is a little atypical. We talk about hard money lenders, or private money lenders. And a lot of times those type of loans are for six months, 12 months, 18 months while you’re going through a project. Well, I have a couple of different private investors, and some of them like their money in and out. Some people just want to park it though, because they want mailbox money forever. And that’s what this gentleman wants. He wants 8%, and he’ll amortize those loans over 30 years. Now-

Ashley:
Wow.

Drew:
… Yeah. We give him first position against that property, so that if I were to flake on him, or something’s not going well, then technically the property goes to him. So, he’s secured by the property. But yeah, it works really well. And in our agreement, there’s an annual renewal. So, as long as we both want to continue the relationship, it just moves forward indefinitely. And he’s done a handful of projects like that with us.

Ashley:
That’s interesting. Did you guys know each other beforehand or did you meet because you were looking for a lender, or he was looking for an investor?

Drew:
We met about a year or so ago. I mean, I’ve known him for a while, but we’ve started talking about real estate. He’s seen some of the things that I do. And so, we’ve tested the waters with some quick in and out deals, and things like that, but he wanted something more steady, and indefinite. So, it’s a great way to pull my money out, you know? So, again, I’m in it for 30,000. The note that he gave me was for 35,000. So, I actually had netted five grand that I can put back into marketing, and go to the next project. And he’s actually done, I think, three of those in the last year for me. So …

Ashley:
So, everyone’s going to be asking you for his number now.

Drew:
All right. [crosstalk 00:47:24] away for sure.

Felipe:
I love when people are like, “Who are your private lenders?” And I’m like, “Yeah, no, none of your business.”

Ashley:
Thought he was going to [inaudible 00:47:34] it’s going to be me. I want [crosstalk 00:47:36]-

Felipe:
Absolutely.

Ashley:
Yeah. Okay, so, we’re going to move on to one of our fun round. It’s called the MVP. I’ll ask both of you this actually, who is someone who has been the most valuable professional player in your business, and getting these deals done? So, you guys can’t say each other, so Drew, if you want to go first.

Drew:
Man, that’s a great question. Well, I’m going to bounce to Ryan, and then I’ll come back.

Ashley:
Okay. [crosstalk 00:48:07].

Ryan:
Cool. I was like, “Oh, I’ve got a few seconds to think this through.” So, I think for me-

Felipe:
You can pull a Snoop Dogg and say myself. [crosstalk 00:48:19] I want to thank myself.

Ryan:
I’m great. So, I think for me actually, I’m going to go with Noah Gilliam. So, Noah started out as my acquisitions manager. And then he actually … Is kind of an interesting story, he was in foster care, and then left to actually start real estate, had never done any real estate investing. Started out as an acquisitions manager, then got to the point that he was like my gopher. Like, I mean, he was taking tenant calls, was posting notices, was managing projects. And then my wife and I found out we were going to be moving out of Indiana to Southern California. And we brought him in as an equity owner in our portfolio. And that’s been incredible.
I mean, I get mailbox money on wholesale deals on properties I’ve never even seen, on addresses I didn’t even know we had under contract. I mean, I’ve told him a number of times, if I could clone him, him and I would both be billionaires. So, he’s really enabled me to live the life I want. But we’ve also given him the life he wants of long-term wealth for his family. I mean, I think last year he pulled like 125K. So, he gets paid really well, but he’s also building the long-term wealth. And he’s really made it his baby.

Felipe:
But he brought you value, and structure and that’s what he brought you. And then you were able to give him the life that he wanted. So, it’s a mutual thing there. I want our listeners to hear that, that it wasn’t just, Ryan, sucking the life out of this gentleman. No-

Ryan:
No, not at all.

Felipe:
… It’s both of them giving back and forth where they’re both … Because it’s like Ryan just said. Ryan, didn’t say, “Hey, I wish I had three of him so that I could become a billionaire.” No, Ryan just said, “If I could clone you, we would both be billionaires.” Right? And that’s the difference, I think, between a leader and just a boss, or a worker bee, you know what I’m saying? So, I love that you said it that way because it’s so true.

Ryan:
Well, I mean, he’s 26, and controls 9 million worth of real estate. Not a bad position to be in. Right? But on top of that, I also want to highlight when he first came to work for me, I could barely afford to pay him. I mean, our initial conversation … I mean, I was probably, I don’t know, 21, 22 at the time … Was like, “Hey, what’s the least amount I can pay you, and your family won’t starve?” And it was like 24,000 bucks a year. And his first year he made like 30, the next year was like 70, then six figures. Right So, yeah, it really is something that grew.

Ashley:
And I think the fact that you gave him equity too is that he probably cares a lot more about the business now that he’s-

Ryan:
Oh, absolutely.

Ashley:
… Actually a partner. And that’s something for everyone to think about is if you do have those valuable people that you want to hold on to, make them a part of their business, because sometimes, you could have a great job. You could be building this empire for someone else, but someday that person’s going to realize that they’re building someone else’s empire, and not their own.

Ryan:
Well. And especially, if you’re in real estate, and constantly running your mouth about like generational wealth. And then you’re like, “Oh, no, you’re just like my hourly grunt.” Right? They’re like, “I’m just going to go do this on my own.” So …

Ashley:
Yeah. Okay. Great. Drew, did you think of anyone?

Drew:
Yeah, I did. So, again, I host the Fort Wayne Real Estate Investors Association. And so, I have a lot of great relationships with a lot of the investors here in town, or at least I’d like to think that I do. But one of the fears that I had getting into wholesaling is one, there are a lot of wholesalers here already, and the competition would be fierce. But my fear was that some of these people that I regard as friends, and they come to me for advice, and I go to them for advice that we would … Not clash, but our businesses are the same thing, right? So, it’s competition. But what I have found is there are three or four of them that I know really well, and we still collaborate a lot.
They’ll get a goofy property that they don’t understand, and they’ll say, “Hey, what do you think about this? Does it make sense?” And I just did that this week with one of my buddies who wholesales just a ton of properties. And so, it’s been nice to know that even though we can be in competition with each other, there’s just still a relation [inaudible 00:52:27] and can collaborate. So, a couple of key people who wholesale from the group that we work with has been nice to know that you can maintain those relationships.

Ryan:
I would definitely make a tweet from this episode of collaboration over competition. I do the same thing with all the big players in my market. We’ve all got each other’s cell phone numbers. We all talk all the time. I think a lot of small investors don’t do that, and totally just shoot themselves in the foot.

Ashley:
That’s a great point.

Felipe:
I think there’s enough to go around. There’s definitely enough real estate to go around, to be like, “I’m going to do this on my own. And I’m not going to tell anybody.” And ultimately, you’re building a wall around yourself that you’re going to end up by yourself. You’re-

Ryan:
Well, and if you’re that prideful, like I was at my absolute poorest when that was my attitude. I was like, “I know everything.” Yet I’m struggling to feed myself. Right? So …

Felipe:
Exactly.

Drew:
Yeah. And I think someone asked me the other day, “Why do you collaborate with so many people? You’re just creating more competition for yourself.” And all of that. And I guess my mindset is just different, Felipe, like you said, there are more than enough deals to go around. And it’s not that you find deals, you create deals, right? And so, if you can learn amongst yourselves how to create these deals, I don’t know. One of the biggest measures of success for me as an individual is how successful the people around me can be because of our collaboration. Right? I mean, if they can surpass my level of success, then that’s awesome.

Felipe:
I love that. I love that. Thanks for sharing, Drew. And I think everyone on the Real Estate Rookie knows that I’m Ashley’s MVP. So, we don’t need to ask Ashley. No, I’m just kidding.

Ashley:
I’m pretty sure they know that. Yeah, or know you think that.

Felipe:
No, I’m just … It just is what it is. No, I’m just kidding.

Ashley:
Now, I know how to introduce you during the show.

Felipe:
That’s right. Now, we’re going to … Yeah-

Ryan:
Felipe, tiny biceps, Mejia.

Felipe:
Oh my God. Oh, that hit me in the heart. Oh, God. Oh, that was real.

Ashley:
Oh, you have no idea how that hurt him right now.

Felipe:
Low blow, oh, I’m-

Ryan:
You’re welcome. I’ve seen some of the Gram flexes.

Felipe:
I’m going to send you some DMs now.

Ashley:
I’ve been waiting for this day forever.

Ryan:
Got to help balance the scales.

Felipe:
[crosstalk 00:54:32].

Ryan:
Keep him humble.

Felipe:
I love that. Thanks, Ryan, for always keeping me humble. Humble Ryan. So, with that, tiny biceps, Felipe, is going to move on to the Rookie request line. So, anyone can actually call in, and leave a question at 18885 Rookie. And, we might play your call here. And today the question is for Drew.

Sally:
Hi, my name is Sally, and I am a medical professional down in Indiana trying to get started. I was wondering if since you were a medical professional, you felt that you had to hide what you were doing on the side from your colleagues because it might make them question your work ethic, or were you able to take advantage of those business relationships that you’ve made to help with you growing your business? Thanks. And I love the podcast.

Drew:
Really good question, because I’ve wrestled with this very thing. When you go into real estate, every podcast ever says, “Tell everyone you know, everyone you know about what you do because you’ll make connections, and deals will come from that.” And things like that. Some people in your workplace are going to be very, very open to that. They’re going to be very excited for you. Other people, maybe not so much. And is it a jealousy thing? Is it because they just don’t have a similar mindset?
It’s hard to say. At the beginning, I told everyone, three, four, or five years down the road, I keep it pretty close when it comes to my professional life, because I have had enough experience of it only takes those one, or two, or three people who don’t have an appreciation for what you do, or they see it on Facebook, or Instagram, and their perception is that your heart isn’t in your day job. And you can’t blame them for that. Right? I put stuff-

Felipe:
Because it’s probably not.

Drew:
Well, and in some cases it probably isn’t. Today, I can say that I love going to my W2, and it’s a good job. I’m grateful to be there. Will that change in five years, 10 years? Maybe. But I do real estate on the side to create security, right? And long-term wealth. And that’s really my goal. And so, some people just don’t have an appreciation for that. And so, it can create a little bit of conflict in the workplace. So, I would tread very cautiously. I think people you have very solid relationships with, tell them all day long, but I don’t know that I would tell everyone to shout it from the rooftops because people will question your dedication.

Felipe:
I wouldn’t necessarily be hitting up supervisors in the elevator.

Drew:
Probably not. And honestly, it’s tough, right? Because I work with a lot of physicians. I’m in the admin level in pharmacy. And a lot of those people would probably invest with me if we had those conversations, but I want them to know that I’m there because I want to be, not just because I’m taking advantage of it. So-

Felipe:
Makes sense. No, that’s [crosstalk 00:57:14]-

Drew:
… Yeah, it’s probably a different answer for lots of different people in different work environments, but that’s been my experience.

Felipe:
I like it. So, Drew and Ryan, I’m very interested in finding out what your favorite book recommendations for interacting with people or negotiating, like what’s your favorite book for negotiating and interacting with people? Ryan, if you want to head that up, and then Drew let us know.

Ryan:
Yeah. So, I think my favorite Jocko Willink, leadership book … Somebody help me out here.

Drew:
Extreme Ownership.

Ryan:
Extreme Ownership. Thank you. So, mine was less people, and more leadership. I don’t think I ever set out understanding that I would be a leader, and that I would have people under me that I sign their paychecks. Right? So, for a long time, I just shirked that responsibility of like, “Oh, like your check’s going to clear. That’s all you get from me.” And that book was pretty eye-opening for me of just like the places that I needed to show up, and be supportive, and encouraging, and also take the ownership when stuff broke. Because I can’t expect my people to show personal responsibility if I don’t show it myself. So, probably that one for me.

Felipe:
Drew?

Drew:
Yup. And Ryan, you can help me with the title of this one. What’s the main Chris Voss book?

Felipe:
Is it Never Split the Difference? Yeah. Never Split the Difference.

Drew:
I know a lot of people recommend that book. [crosstalk 00:58:38]-

Ryan:
Because it’s good.

Drew:
Oh, it’s phenomenal. It’s unbelievable. He’s a negotiator by trade, like hostage negotiator. And the tactics that he gives you in each and every chapter, like you can read one chapter and start using it immediately.

Ryan:
Such a good book. Such [crosstalk 00:58:54]-

Drew:
Yeah, even at home … And tread cautiously if it’s your wife or your husband [crosstalk 00:58:58] words. Now, I’ve listened to it twice. And usually I listen to books. I’ve got a hard copy of it because I’m going to try to read it, and just take in more of it because it’s just powerful stuff.

Ryan:
Good stuff.

Ashley:
Great. Those are both great recommendations. So, thank you guys. And can you let everyone know where they can find out some more information about you or contact you?

Drew:
Yeah, sure. Again, you can find me on Facebook. Just look for Drew Wiard. It’s W-I-A-R-D. And on Instagram-

Felipe:
It’s wizard without the Z.

Drew:
Yeah. Wizard without the Z. Yep. That’s the easiest way to remember. And then on Instagram, I’m now the flying investor. We talked last month about how I fly paramotors, and that’s very much my passion. So, that’s where you can find me.

Felipe:
Ryan?

Ryan:
Best for me is just ryandossey.com. You can also find me on Facebook and Instagram, just under my name.

Ashley:
Very cool. Well, thank you guys so much for being here again for part two, and maybe we’ll have to have a part three sometime, and see where you guys are investing, and what’s going on. But I at least have taken so much value from learning this process with you guys, and especially, seeing, Drew, grow through it as a rookie at using this kind of investing technique. So, I want to thank you guys very much again for doing it and-

Ryan:
My pleasure.

Ashley:
… Yeah. So, hopefully, we’ll have you guys back sometime. I am Ashley Kehr and Felipe Mejia is my cohost with tiny biceps, and thank you so much for listening.