Agents React to NAR Lawsuit Commission Change

Dave (00:00):
Hi everyone, and welcome to the BiggerPockets Podcast Network. I’m your host today, Dave Meyer. If you’ve been following along the last couple of weeks, both on the BiggerPockets Podcast and our sister podcast, the On the Market podcast, we’ve been covering in depth the NAR National Association of Realtors antitrust lawsuit developments. For those of you who haven’t been following, first and foremost, you can go listen to the episodes we released last week, which was sort of a factual accounting of the lawsuits, what the jury decided, what is in the actual settlement that NAR agreed to last week. Today we’re going to be going into what happens from here. And while last week we talked to a reporter this week, we are actually going to bring in four experienced investor friendly agents to hear first and foremost their reaction to this news about the NAR settlement, what they’re doing today to modify their business, what they think might happen in the future, and how investors should be changing their approach to working with real estate agents.

(01:06):
We have a great lineup of guests today. First and foremost is Avery Carl, you might have heard her on the BiggerPockets or On The Market podcast before. She’s a massive agent, owns a big brokerage in Florida called the Short-Term Shop. She also wrote a book on short-term rentals for BiggerPockets. We have Craig Curelop, who’s an agent out of Denver and the founder of the PHI team. Next we have Juliet Lalouel, who is an agent working in both Hawaii and Denver. That sounds awesome. And she’s the founder of Heavy Realty. And last but not least, we have Mike Savegnago, who is an agent out of Chicago with United Real Estate. And again, all these are agents who work with investors, have a lot of experience in this industry, and are gonna share their thoughts and insights about the changes in the agent industry with us. So let’s get into it. Avery, let’s start with you. In case any of our audience is unfamiliar or didn’t listen to last week’s show where we sort of went into the technicalities of the settlement, can you just fill us in on how commissions had traditionally been split prior to this

Avery (02:11):
Settlement? So while there hasn’t been a set standard, because there is no standard commission, what has typically happened is when a listing agent goes to take a listing, they’ll say, Hey, Mr. Seller, um, typically we charge this amount and we will split it with a buyer’s agent. So a separate agent that is not affiliated with the listing agent who brings the buyer. Usually, again, there has been no standard, but it’s usually 50 50. Uh, a lot of times I think that the general public is under the assumption that it’s always 6%. It’s not, it’s always been negotiable. And I do think that there’s a little bit of a misconception about what has been happening prior to this settlement. So up until now, it was required by the National Association of Realtors for a listing agent to offer some compensation, any compensation to a buyer’s agent. They couldn’t offer $0, but they could offer $1. And I think that a lot of people aren’t understanding that there have been agents offering $1 commissions or $500 commissions to buyer’s agents for decades, but the public has not necessarily known that. So I think that’s more what we’re dealing with here, is public perception than what’s actually been going on out there in the real estate agent world up until now.

Dave (03:34):
Thank you for explaining that because I do think there is a lot of confusion about how things have worked traditionally, uh, particularly for people who are new to real estate, never bought or sold a home before. And Avery, now that this settlement has been agreed upon, how will this change?

Avery (03:55):
I think it’s, again, much more a change in public perception than it is a change in how things are done. And I think that now it’s going to just be a much more transparent conversation between buyer’s agents and their buyers at the beginning of the relationship and during the relationship than it has been before. Because up until now, uh, there buyers haven’t really been in the conversation as much about what the commission being offered is. And so I think that there’s gonna be a lot more transparency, a lot more conversations happening sooner in the transaction than than there have been in the past.

Dave (04:32):
Okay, thank you for that background, Avery. Much appreciated. Mike, let’s turn it over to you. Do you have the same understanding of how commission negotiations will change as what Avery just said?

Mike (04:44):
Yeah, I think like she said, I mean, it’s just gonna be more, um, awareness. Um, and I recently have had clients start reaching out to me going, Hey, what does this mean for our transaction? Or, or what does this mean if I list my house? And I think they’re just more aware now that they have options. Um, things are negotiable. Um, but honestly, I haven’t seen any of my clients do this 0% commission for buyers. They’re still like, ah, I think we’ll just do it like we have been doing. But I think that’ll change a little bit.

Dave (05:14):
Is there anything that you’re doing in your business proactively, Mike, to facilitate that change? Are you sort of just waiting to see what happens

Mike (05:23):
On the buyer side? Um, in case a listing agent doesn’t have a commission for me, um, I am having my client sign, uh, on my exclusive contracts that if in the event that a seller doesn’t pay my commissions, I am gonna charge my my buyer a, a minimum or a percentage. So yes, I’m my exclusive contracts. I am, um, proactively putting that in the contract in case a listing agent doesn’t want to pay me. <laugh>.

Dave (05:50):
I hadn’t heard that. Is that something you came up with or is this something being adopted industry-wide?

Mike (05:57):
Well, I’m in Chicago, um, and my brokerage started doing that on our contracts and my association. So I think they’re just kind of proactively getting ready for this as well.

Dave (06:07):
All right. Well, Juliet, let, let’s turn it over to you. I’d love to just start by knowing how did you react when you heard about the settlement? Were you surprised?

Juliet (06:15):
Um, I was a little surprised, but at the same time, I think, you know, I wasn’t sure which direction this was going to take the entire market, how people were gonna react in general was more, my concern was just how consumers, how people that, uh, don’t understand what maybe agents do, what their reaction was going to be. It was a little less on maybe how I was going to get paid, what my future was going to look like as an agent, um, but how just the public was going to handle this and how we were going to have to untie a lot of knots due to media misinformation or just people not understanding the process. So at first it was a little bit of confusion there, but as I have been just really driving into understanding all of this process better, trying to immediately make myself a better agent, whether I’m representing a buyer or a seller, I’m feeling a lot more confident.

(07:03):
Even now. It’s only been, you know, a few days and that I’ve just been immersing myself. And I think that that preparation and understanding of the entire process will give people more confidence moving through this change. Whether it happens or not. I mean, if this passes and goes through, it’s going to have to affect everybody, but if it doesn’t, it’s still going to affect a lot of people that now understand that it was always negotiable and that they don’t have to pay. And so how are we gonna prepare for that now? And I think it’s just a matter of having knowledge and the more knowledge you have, the more confidence you have. And so that’s going to be really important. That’s

Dave (07:35):
A great perspective, Craig. I’d love to hear your opinion as well. What was your reaction when you heard the news?

Craig (07:41):
My first reaction when I ever hear a news article that just blows up is just like, wait three days and then kind of come back to it because I don’t like to fall into all the hype and the like, craziness that everyone is saying. And so I kind of did that. I waited a couple days and then I just realized it is all, it’s more hype than anything else. I think at, you know, this buyer’s commission was always negotiable. Now the buyers just know that it’s negotiable. And so I think, you know, what Mike said and what Juliet said, i, I a hundred percent agree with is that you now just have to have those conversations up front with your buyers, actually bring your value. And I think this is a wonderful thing for the industry. It makes it harder, but it’s gonna eliminate 50% of the competition and all of which are bad agents. And no one on this call is a bad agent, so we should be very happy about this whole settlement.

Dave (08:31):
So I, I wanna get back to that idea of, of some people leaving the industry. But Craig, can you just tell us a little bit about logistically, like how is this gonna work? So you start working with a buyer, what is this conversation gonna look like?

Craig (08:45):
Yeah, so I think it just emphasizes the importance of the buyer consultation. Uh, I think a lot of agents maybe skipped that before, especially the inexperienced ones. And so now there’s gonna be a more, a bigger emphasis that’s at least what we’re doing with our agents on how to actually have a, have a conversation with a buyer, sit down with them, run them through the process, explain the value and explain why they would be foolish to go unrepresented or to go with anyone else besides, you know, us and our team or whatever. And hopefully they understand that. And then of course, I think sellers are still, if they wanna sell their house, they’re still going to offer a buyer’s commission. And the agents are gonna have to look at it on a deal by deal basis when they put an offer in, Hey, is the seller gonna pay for the commission, are they not? And make sure they let the buyer know before they actually write the offer. Avery, did you wanna jump in?

Avery (09:31):
Yeah, I just wanted to add to that because I recently was a seller where this came up. So we bought last year, like we call it a fishing camp, uh, for my husband and the kids. And I guess for me, sometimes I, we live at the beach, so you can’t get me off the beach to go to a fishing camp, but, uh, to kind of hang out at, and we decided after six months, ooh, I think we bought a little too far away. It’s a little too much work. We kinda wanna sell this thing. And when you go to sell land, the land asset class is a lot different from the residential asset class that we’re talking about. And so we interviewed a few agents and we picked the one that we liked the best to sell it. And when we got the contract to list the property, there was a clause in there that said he could choose it.

(10:16):
It, he was not offering a buyer’s agent commission across the board. He was gonna choose who would get what. And you know, we were not need to sellers, we were not in a bad financial position. We had a need to fill, which all sellers do. They’re selling for a reason, right? Not necessarily because they’re gonna go bankrupt if they don’t sell this property, but our need was, oh, this is too far away, it’s too much, let’s get rid of it. And when we saw that, we said, oh hey, you know what? We don’t like that. We want anybody’s buyers to anybody in the world who has a real estate license, like, bring us your buyers. ’cause we wanna sell this thing. We don’t want it to sit on the market so that, you know, we have to keep paying mortgages on it and just sit there if we can’t get it sold.

(10:59):
So he would not negotiate that with us. Uh, he said, if you know some agent that I’ve never worked with that I don’t know who they are, they’re a residential, a residential agent who doesn’t know how to do land, I’m gonna pay them less than somebody who I do land with often. And we didn’t like that. We said, I don’t care who’s like Aunt Susie agent, it is, we want their buyer if they’re qualified, we want them to buy this house from us, I mean this property from us. And we ended up not using that agent and going and finding an agent that was offering a decent buyer’s agent commission. He was offering 50 50 to anyone who brought a buyer because we wanted more buyers and we’re happy to pay someone’s agent to bring them to us so we can get this sold. And so I think that, I don’t think that all of a sudden all of the sellers in the country are gonna say, oh, we’re not paying. ’cause you still want, you know, I’m willing to offer other agents a commission to bring me buyers ’cause I do have a need to get this even though it’s not necessarily a financial

Dave (11:55):
One. That’s a great point. And I feel for that agent because if I were him, I would not wanna negotiate with you over an agent contract <laugh> <laugh> given, given your expertise. Okay. So we need to take a quick break, but when we come back more from these agents about their take on the NIR settlement and what changes they expect to see in the industry, stick with us. Welcome back everyone. I’m here with agents, Avery, Juliet, Craig, and Mike talking about the NAR settlement. Let’s jump back in. Juliet, I’m curious, uh, you know, we talked a little bit and you all seem like pretty calm about this, I have to say, like, you know, you read these things on the internet and you or social media and everyone seems to be freaking out and all four of you just have this calm demeanor. Juliet, do you think that’s universal across the industry? Or are people sort of like Craig said, maybe newer, uh, agents or less experienced agents, are they concerned about this maybe more than the four of you are?

Juliet (12:52):
I would imagine agents with less experience in general, no matter how long you’ve been in the business, if you haven’t been having these types of conversations or been really been through these processes, you might be a bit more nervous because you’re not gonna be as prepared. And there will be agents who will be more prepared, who understand how to have these conversations with their listing agents and with their sellers. There’s going to be somebody that’s going to be, um, having these conversations already or has been doing them for years. And if you haven’t been doing them, you might yeah, be, be a bit nervous. I think that, um, with what Craig was saying and what, what a lot of people are saying, there certainly are going to be a huge exit of agents. Those people that were part-time, the people that don’t wanna do the hard work because it is going to be more work.

(13:36):
And some people don’t like that. And some people certainly thought that getting your license was super easy. All you have to do is open doors that is just a walk in the park. And that is never been the case, at least ever for me. It’s always been extremely difficult one way or another. Every transaction is different and I think that a lot of people are certainly gonna be bummed out that they now have to work harder. I’m actually more excited that I have to work harder, be better, be smarter. And some people are certainly not going to feel that way.

Dave (14:02):
Do you think that we’re gonna see this sort of mass exodus of people, like people say like half, you know, NAR might lose two thirds of their membership. Do you think it could be that dramatic?

Juliet (14:15):
Honestly, I think it could be. I mean, with just the way that rates are and just maybe there’s other job opportunities now that have been opening up for a lot of people. I think that it could be, um, I would hope that there would be a small glimmer of that number that actually proves to be wrong. Where you have people saying, you know what? I’m not gonna be part of that demographic or that percentage. I’m actually gonna use this opportunity to make myself better and to do the work. I don’t know how many people think that way. I don’t know how many other people have other options. I myself have given myself no other option except for real estate. So it’s, you know, just one direction that I have to go burn the boats type of a thing. So there’s no, so it’s just gonna have to make me better. And, you know, there might be other people that have another opportunity that looks better, is easier, is more convenient that they might go to. So we, we will see that over time. I’m a little thrilled, as Craig was saying, that if there are more agents, bad agents that leave, that’s gonna be wonderful for everybody else that stays and for all of the consumers, sellers and buyers and investors, it’s gonna be a benefit to everybody if, if fat agents leave,

Dave (15:17):
That’s, that’s a great perspective and love the book Burn the Boats. I was gonna mention that after you were talking about giving yourself no other option if anyone wants to read it. Great book about just sort of like forcing yourself to find success in your chosen path. Highly recommend it. Mike, I think given how measured all of your approaches are here, I’m, I’m curious if you see that working with investors is going to insulate you a little bit or sort of change the prospect for, uh, investor friendly agents. And maybe it might be a little bit different for people who focus on traditional home buyers. I’ve sort of heard this line of thinking where some people are like, all investors are now gonna stop paying a buyer’s agent because they’ve done this before. And if you’re gonna do a lot of transactions, maybe it behooves them to learn how to do the transactions and they’re gonna do it themselves. I’ve heard that I’m an investor, I have no interest in becoming a real estate agent and I will always use a user real estate agents, but I hear sort of these contradictory ideas and I’m just curious if you think that investors or working with investors may fare differently as an agent in the future?

Mike (16:28):
Yeah, I mean I I I mostly work with, um, investors and I think, you know, you can’t just put ’em all in one bucket as you know what kind of investors they are. ’cause there’s a lot of investors who, you know, have full-time jobs and they really don’t know much about construction and distressed properties. So they heavily rely on me, who is also a, a general contractor back in the day to actually look at a distressed property and go, Hey, foundation’s gone. You don’t want this one. Um, and look at another one go, Hey, it’s just cosmetic 20 grand, you’re gonna gain 50 K equity. Um, so I think, you know, working with those type of investors, they’re still gonna see our value and they’re gonna wanna work with a buying agent because we’re, we’re bringing value and and they don’t have time to go look at 30, 40 deals.

(17:17):
They just want you to bring them the good deal that that makes sense for their situation. So no, I, I think investors are still gonna, you know, wanna work with, with buying agents and I mean, I’ve had multiple situations where, you know, uh, listing agents were changing leases or updating, uh, leases that were under market and I found it during the, uh, closing process, stuff like that. And so we’re, we always have to keep their, um, you know, what they want, uh, part part of what we’re doing. And I think that’s the importance of buyer agents.

Dave (17:50):
Well said. Avery, did you wanna jump in?

Avery (17:52):
Yes, yes. So what I wanted to clarify is that there’s always gonna be those FSBO type people out there that are doing for sale by owners or the type of people who are going direct to listing agents and aren’t using buyer’s agents. Like that’s, you’ve never had to use a buyer’s agent. It’s not like all of a sudden you don’t have to use one. But an example that I wanna give is, uh, we had a very, very large hedge fund that, if I name it, everybody would recognize it, client, listing client earlier this year that they bought a couple years ago, and they’re going to sell quite a bit of their portfolio and they went direct to listing agents because, you know, they’ve got data that none of us could ever hope to even see. They’ve got unlimited money, unlimited access to data. And they bought several short-term rentals in a few of our markets.

(18:40):
And what happened was there were things that needed to be disclosed about these properties. The septic systems specifically where the listing agent on these was from outta town and did not properly disclose that these five bedroom properties, there’s two of them were on one bedroom septics. Well, in that market you have to list a property according to the number of bedrooms the septic is rated for, which is one, but they were both listed as five bedroom properties. They bought these properties and when they came to list them with us, we had to unfortunately let them know like, Hey guys, you don’t have two five bedrooms, you’ve got two one bedrooms that we now have to list as one bedrooms. You bought them as five bedrooms. And of course I didn’t, would not say this to them, but like a, any good buyer’s agent in the market would’ve known like, Hey, we need to check this out.

(19:29):
This needs to be disclosed because, um, now they’re in a bad situation and that a coupled with a a few other things, they’re gonna be down about a million dollars across this portfolio because of these very data driven decisions that they didn’t have that qualitative information of a local expert to tell them, Hey, we don’t need to buy this, or, you know, maybe we need to look elsewhere. So, uh, the people that aren’t using agents are just not gonna use agents. Those people have always existed, but the value of using one to help you not make those million dollar mistakes that a Wall Street fund that has, you know, like I said, access to everything we could never dream of having for making million dollar mistakes.

Juliet (20:08):
So I think another thing to think about when, um, investors, you know, in the conversation of having investors use buyers agents, sometimes investors don’t see things in the eyes of the buyer. They’re gonna just be seeing things strictly as numbers. They’re gonna be seeing, you know, they, they don’t see what someone is going to want to appreciate in a home, what the neighborhood is really like. They’re just coming at it with the numbers and how they’re gonna make out afterwards. And having a buyer’s agent that can understand what a consumer actually wants and having those viewpoints is really valuable that sometimes they don’t have, some of them have that and they’re really, really good. They might not need need agents as they saying, but there are gonna be some that do want someone’s input and are gonna want that, that they might not always think about or have. Just having an extra set of eyes is going to be very helpful for them.

Dave (20:52):
Craig, I’d like to get your, your take on this investor thing. Do you think that sort of differentiating yourself as an investor focused and investor friendly agent is gonna change the way you navigate this upcoming shift?

Craig (21:06):
Yeah, so I, I think it, it is great to focus on investors, um, but I think like what, one thing that I’ve kind of been thinking about even the last couple years as just the market has changed, not even just with this whole nar settlement, is that I think it’s silly to just have one kind of customer, like right, because then if the investors give away for some reason your market now you’re totally severed, you don’t have anything else. So we’ve been pivoting as well, getting more into the residential space as well. Of course we’ve still got our investor arm, but we’re doing a lot more, um, with just traditional people buying homes and stuff like that. And so one thing I wanted to add to kind of the previous conversation was, you know, there’s a reason why there are people out there that are full-time investors and full-time, like full-time investors that aren’t agents and full-time agents that aren’t investors. They’re two completely different things. And to think that one person can do the other as well as, it’s like saying an electrician could do the same job as a plumber, right? Like they both know how to work on houses, but they’re two totally different things. And so I I think that, you know, you might see some people try to do each, but like Avery just brilliantly pointed out, they might catch themselves in with some massive losses by not having a trusted professional doing the correct side of the transaction.

Dave (22:18):
Okay, we have to take one more short break, but we’ll be right back. Stick around. Welcome back to BiggerPockets. Let’s get back into our conversation. So Mike, let’s, let’s start with you. I’d like to turn the conversation here a little more towards advice. So Mike, if there is an agent out there who’s maybe newer or not is feeling uncomfortable, uncertain about the upcoming changes in the industry, what advice would you give them? What should people be thinking about and doing right now?

Mike (22:47):
I think just transparency is gonna be super important upfront, uh, and telling your clients or potential clients, Hey, there’s this, you know, issue going on right now. Things are kind of pretty negotiable right now. Um, and, and just kind of being upfront about what the options are, what the benefits of those options are. Um, you know, as we talked about before, yeah, you could not pay a buyer’ss agent, but who’s gonna come see your house if you’re not, if you’re not paying ’em? So, you know, go over those options, um, kind of let them decide. And, um, I think protecting yourself too with the contracts that you have, um, with minimums, you know, saying, Hey, if someone, you know, the buyer agent or the seller agent doesn’t want to pay us, you know, I have to charge you at least four grand or or whatever for, for my time of driving around and helping you assess these properties, et cetera. Um, so I think just transparency and, and trying to protect yourself as best as possible.

Dave (23:46):
That’s, that’s great advice. Avery, same question. How would you counsel an agent right now?

Avery (23:52):
So what my advice would be just to chill out and wait and see the real estate industry is incredibly slow moving. Wait to kind of see what happens. And we had a really perfectly timed thing happened yesterday and today, right? Just in time to talk about this on the podcast. So we on the buyer’s side had our first buyer who wanted to buy a property, make an offer on a property that was offering 0%, uh, to a buyer’s agent. And so our agent let the buyer know, they went to the seller, to the listing agent, said, Hey guys, we wanna make an offer, you guys willing to pay a buyer’s agent? They said, you know, just submit the offer. So we put everything in and said, okay, you know, you guys are gonna pay the buyer’s agent X amount. The seller said, I’m not paying a buyer’s agent, period.

(24:37):
Like, I’m not paying for that. We’ll let the buyer pay for that. So we go back to the buyer and we said, Hey, you know what seller doesn’t want to to pay, so we’re gonna have to figure out, you know, how, what do you, how do you guys wanna move forward with, we can’t work for free. So if you guys wanna move forward with this deal without us, you’re welcome to do that. Or we can figure out a way for, you know, you guys to pay the buyer’s agent fee, whatever that is, we’ll work it out. Or you know, what do you wanna do? And the buyer said, I don’t wanna buy this house, but we’ve been working with you guys for a year. Let’s go find something that works where they are offering one. So we said, wow, okay, we’ll go find you another one today.

(25:14):
That same seller called back and said, Hey, actually we will pay you submit the offer because we weren’t gonna offer at all. So I think that, you know, that kind of illustrates the point of like, if you just really, really want, there’s gonna be those people regardless. The people who are gonna go direct to a listing agent who don’t wanna use a buyer’s agent. Those people have been out there forever and they do it that way. And then there are also the for sale by owner people who don’t wanna pay an agent at all that have been listing that way for decades. So nothing is really changing that much except the conversation that has to be had around it.

Dave (25:48):
Well thank you for sharing that story. That is, that’s super interesting. I was wondering how quickly this was gonna start happening, and it sounds like these kind of things are already happening, but maybe it’s just this like temporary turmoil here and you know, it sounds like the seller and their agent sort of figured this out and were able to find something agreeable in just a couple of days. I

Juliet (26:08):
Just wanted to add something on that, on what, what to be saying to either new agents or just people that are, you know, worried about what’s gonna happen next, whether or not this goes through. I think the best thing is to just take this as an opportunity to just improve yourself now, just to be a better buyer’s agent now and really just understand the entire process and start educating people today. Just use it no matter what happens as an opportunity to just become better. Now

Dave (26:32):
That’s such a good point too, because buyers are probably also wondering about what’s happening. And as Mike said, and as you said Juliette, like just being transparent and helping them understand and show that you have nothing hide and you you’re trying to navigate through this situation with them, I’m sure we’ll build a lot of rapport and trust with your clients. Let’s turn to the investor side of things, Craig, if you were an investor who’s trying to figure out how to navigate this situation, is there anything, as you know, if you were buying a new house, is there anything you would be doing differently or questions you would be asking your agent right now?

Craig (27:06):
I think this just really emphasizes the importance of using a good agent because effectively now the buyer, the buyer always paid for it, but now everyone knows that it’s negotiable. So it seems a little bit more seriously that the buyer’s paying for it. And so I think you need to ask just some serious questions about, Hey agent, do you have any investments yourself? How can you help me? Do you have contractors? Do you have all of the things that you’re looking for to investor-friendly agent? Like you’ve just gotta make sure to ask the appropriate questions to make sure that you’re getting the best value for the agent. I don’t think you can use your, your uncle anymore just because he is your uncle. Uh, and I think that’s gonna be really the biggest thing.

Mike (27:44):
I was just gonna add to that, and I think Craig, it’s, it’s important that yeah, you do have a realtor who has the experience of houses that you’re trying to buy. Uh, I mean there’s so many times I’ve run into realtors who are selling houses, they don’t even own a house. I call ’em real estate agent posers. I mean, how are you gonna sell houses to people when you don’t even have one yourself? And not to, to try to get on people who are not in a good situation. But if you’re in this profession, and especially if you’re working with investors, you should have an investment portfolio to work with those I do. So I can say, Hey, this is how an Airbnb, um, property works. This is how a short-term or long-term rental property, this is how a multi-unit works. ’cause I have those properties to share with my clients. Um, and that’s what I think makes me a, a good agent for those types of, uh, clients. And, and so I think finding those types of realtors is gonna be really important for, um, investors moving forward.

Dave (28:39):
That’s great advice. And as someone who’s not an agent me, uh, but has interviewed dozens and dozens of agent, it is so obvious <laugh> like when you meet with an agent yeah, who knows what they’re talking about and has worked with investors before and it, and ones who really are just trying to sell you on the home buyer dream home kind of thing. And I think the more that you can talk about numbers or talk about your own personal experience, the good and the bad. Like I personally love that when agents tell me, oh, I had this bad experience or, uh, you know, I I used to recommend this contractor but it didn’t work out. ’cause like, that’s just the business. That’s just how it works. And the more transparent you can be and more you can show that you understand the things that, that real estate investors are thinking about, uh, the better you’re gonna be. Uh, before we go Avery or Juliet, do either of you have any thoughts or advice that you want to give to investors?

Juliet (29:35):
Um, I would say, you know, to investors, just keep in mind the value that some of these agents are really bringing to you. And if there’s some that are not bringing value to you, you know, really kind of interview others who can really help you through the process, whether it’s finding off market deals or negotiating really strongly for you or when it comes to the sell side, really representing you very well and being able to find a great buyer’s agent and compensating that buyer’s agent appropriately. Uh, it’s gonna be a really good time to just focus on who can serve you best and really just have a better interview process To what Mike was saying earlier,

Avery (30:08):
I agree, just making sure that you’re asking the right questions of every agent and not just going with the first agent that slides into your dms because you went on a Facebook group for the market you wanna buy in and said, I’m looking for an agent. Uh, make sure that you interview everyone and ask the right questions to make sure that they are the best value, the best person to do the job for you.

Craig (30:29):
I think the process might slow down a little bit, right? I think before you could hop on BiggerPockets, get an investor from the agent, go see a house that afternoon and put under contract now the buyer’s agents, and just to let all the buyers know is that it’s gonna probably be a little bit more like, hey, there is going to be a buyer’s consultation. They are gonna actually show you the value that they provide so that you will then sign an exclusive right to buy and commit to that person before going to see that house. And so I think like those days might be past us where you can get into houses in 30 seconds.

Dave (31:01):
Well that, to me, that sounds like another maybe good side effect silver lining thing here that like, if it forces you to really talk, interview your agent and pick the best one that’s probably best for agents and investors over the long run.

Avery (31:15):
Yeah. Should have been doing that anyway. <laugh>,

Craig (31:17):
A hundred percent.

Dave (31:18):
Yes, we definitely should have been doing that anyway, but if this is a reminder and we’ll force people to do it, maybe it’s just the kick in the butt some people need. All right. Well, Avery, Mike, Juliette, Craig, thank you all so much for being here. We really appreciate you sharing your insights, your expertise in this, you know, somewhat confusing, but interesting time in the real estate investing industry. We hope to have you all back sometime soon so we can hear about how things actually play out over the next couple of months.

Avery (31:46):
Awesome. Thanks a lot. Thanks.

Juliet (31:47):
Thanks you,

Craig (31:48):
Thanks so much Dave. Good to see you.

Dave (31:50):
Thanks again to the whole crew that was here for sharing their insights and information here. I was genuinely surprised about how calm everyone was because if you go on social media or anywhere really right now, you see these headlines that are like, everything’s going to change. And I’ve, you know, I have to admit, there have been times where I’ve thought that this is going to be a huge, pretty monumental shift in real estate in the whole real estate industry. And what we don’t really know what’s going to happen, we’re gonna have to see how things played out. I found the conversation that we just had a bit reassuring to hear that real estate agents are still finding ways to add value and to be beneficial to transactions for the people that they work with. And I just generally agree with this sentiment that a lot of them shared, which is that if you’re good at what you do and if you pursue excellence and you add value, that there’s always gonna be a place for you.

(32:44):
Even, you know, that’s true in the real estate industry. It’s true as an agent, it’s true in almost any industry. So I, I really appreciated that input from all of our guests here today and hope that it’s true for real estate agents. So I’ll leave you all with that. Always try to find ways to add value, whether you’re an investor, an agent, or anything else. And if you do want to meet an investor friendly agent like we talked about today, you can always do that for free at biggerpockets.com/agent Finder. Just put in a little information about yourself and you’ll get matched with an investor friendly agent who can help you with your next deal. For BiggerPockets, I’m Dave Meyer. Thanks for listening.