Building Your Brand and Getting to the Front of the Room

J:
Welcome to the BiggerPockets Business Podcast, show number 64.

Erik:
If there’s something out there that you want and you really truly passionately desire something, there’s going to be someone out there that knows way more than you, sidle up next to them and say, “Hey, anything that you need, how can I help you?” And eventually they’ll notice you and they’ll say, “Yeah, come on in.”

J:
Welcome to a real-world MBA from the school of hard knocks, where entrepreneurs reveal what it really takes to make it. Whether you’re already in business or you’re on your way there, this show is for you. This is BiggerPockets business.
How’s it going, everybody, I am J Scott, I’m your co-host for the BiggerPockets Business Podcast and I am here once again with my lovely co-host and wife, Carol Scott. How’s it going today, Carol?

Carol:
I’m doing well, but more importantly, how are you birthday boy? How does it feel to be 29 again. Well, plus 20.

J:
Hey, hey, hey, you don’t need to tell people my age.

Carol:
Oh, you’re right.

J:
That’s okay. It is awesome. I’m enjoying, celebrating in the traditional COVID experience at home with the family. We’re sure a lot of other people out there know what I’m talking about, but yeah, it’s been a great birthday.

Carol:
Good. Glad you’re having a great birthday because we have a great guest and that’s an awesome way to spend the day.

J:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Our guest today is fantastic. His name is Erik Cabral. He’s actually a friend of ours. We’ve worked together a whole bunch over the last couple of years, and I’m really excited to have him on the show. So Erik is, well, let’s say he’s all kinds of things. He’s a brand expert first and foremost. He is the founder of multiple related companies, including a company called On Air Brands, which is a podcast network consisting of dozens of really great podcasts, podcasts you guys are probably familiar with. And he’s also the founder of a company called PodMAX, which is a podcasting events company that brings together podcasters and guests to create just this amazing content ecosystem.
So on this show, Erik talks to us all about the value of building a strong network. He talks to us about branding and his four C’s of building an amazing brand. He talks to us about how, if you’re a podcaster out there, how you can improve your podcast. And if you want to get start in podcasting, he talks about some amazing tips for getting started as a podcaster.
And then make sure you listen to the end of the show where he tells us a really funny and amazing story about how he, I don’t want to ruin it, but it’s about the birth of his second daughter, definitely worth listening to at the end of the episode. Anyway, amazing episode with Erik, if you’re interested in podcasting, if you’re interested in content and especially if you’re interested in branding, you’re going to get an amazing out of this episode. If you want to learn more about Erik, if you want to learn more about the things we talk about, if you want to find links to any of the things we discussed in the show, check out our show notes at biggerpockets.com/bizshow64. Again, that’s biggerpockets.com/bizshow64. Without any further ado, let’s welcome Erik Cabral to the show.

Carol:
Erik, welcome to the show. We are so looking forward to our conversation with you. You are an absolutely amazing powerful brand builder. You are a master of media and just an all around awesome, wonderful likable guy. So thank you for joining us today.

Erik:
So honored, humbled, and happy to be here and really honestly, to be celebrating J’s birthday. I mean, that’s so cool. I’m celebrating your birthday with you brother.

J:
Yeah. We’re recording this on my birthday, so anybody that’s listening the day this is released, my birthday was last week. So feel free to send me happy birthdays.

Carol:
Awesome belateds. Happy birthday, baby.

J:
Okay, cool. Now I’m really excited about doing this. Erik, we’ve known each other for a long time now, I’ve been on your podcast. You have been, in a lot of ways from a brand perspective, a mentor to me, and you’ve just done some totally cool stuff, both in real estate and in podcasting and in brand building and in events. So I think this is going to be a really awesome episode and I know our listeners are going to get a ton out of this. So thank you, thank you for being here.

Erik:
Absolutely. Thank you for having me.

J:
Cool. So let’s start for those who are listening, who don’t know who Erik Cabral is, give us some backstory. First, tell us what you’re doing now, who you are, but then jump back into kind of your origin story. How’d you get started and where do you come from?

Erik:
Yeah, absolutely. So currently have and founded a media agency called On Air Brands and that sort of morphed into a podcasting event called PodMAX. So I’m running and operating that with my amazing team, I wouldn’t be able to do any of that without them. But that all really stemmed from building and trying to build an empire in real estate, believe it or not.
And really the rewind, how that happened, several years ago, I had an aha moment when I was being laid off for the second time and always fortunate to talk about and think about that because I had a career for over 20 years in Corporate America. And I was being laid off and I had to start putting the pieces together, writing the resume, doing the whole routine, looking for new opportunities and I stumbled upon, Rich Dad, Poor Dad, as many of us did and do.
And I’ll never forget this time I was driving and as I was listening to the audio, okay, I say, read, I was actually listening to it during the commute and I was punching the steering wheel because I was so empowered, angered, frustrated, all of these emotions because I was like, “I’ve been a full all this time. I didn’t realize that I should be taking control over my destiny and creating legacy wealth for my family.”
That was when I went down the rabbit hole of, “Let me start educating myself.” This is a brand new endeavor. I’ve never created a business, that was something that I’m not accustomed to and have zero knowledge on. So I started to just voraciously absorb books and podcasts, like BiggerPockets, that’s how I discovered it. And I started to build a network and realized how powerful a network is and how it’s required to build a business, and I didn’t understand that climbing the corporate ladder.
So for those of you who are out there and you’re in a W-2, as powerful and securing that may feel, I felt less secure as I got older, reaching the top, the proverbial corporate ladder. And I said, “This is all, I’m ever going to accomplish. I think I’ve reached the top. I’ve reached the top of that industry. I’ve reached the top of the salary cap that I ever was going to experience.” And that’s when I was like, “No more. I have to do something else, and I have to start building something that I could be proud of rather than building something for another company, these massive corporations that were really leveraging us as cogs in the machine to build something that they were striving to do and to accomplish.”
And I realized the 60, 70 hours that I was putting in. I was like, “Oh, my goodness. Why don’t I start doing that? What if I took all that energy and put it into something that I create for myself?” So, that really just spring-boarded in my trajectory to build Mindado Investment Group, and then I started to find mentors and coaches. That’s how I found Matt Faircloth and BiggerPockets and really sort of shadowed him and a lot of other people to figure out how to do this so that I wasn’t afraid anymore because really, not knowing anything about real estate was super scary.
Then, I sort of bartered. I said, “Hey, if you need help, it looks like you do in creative …” because a lot of the people in the real estate investing industry were asking me, “How are you creating stuff for social? Or who’s doing your logos? Who’s doing your branding? Who’s doing your marketing?” It was all me, so I started to help people, and it really built On Air Brands, just servicing real estate investors in the creative space. That’s the history right there.

J:
So, there is so much great stuff there that I kind of want to dig into. First, I want to start with kind of what you ended on, and that was you decided to get into real estate. You found Matt Faircloth who we’re both good friends with. Great guy. You found BiggerPockets, and you decided you wanted a mentor in Matt Faircloth. I get asked constantly, “Do you mentor? How can you be my mentor?” I have people say, “How can I find other mentors? How can I get X person, Y person, Z person to mentor me?” You didn’t just say, “I asked Matt to mentor me, and he mentored me.” You said, “I offered Matt something, and in return, I asked for his mentorship.” Isn’t that what mentorship is all about? Providing value, getting value in return. This is what so many entrepreneurs, so many real estate investors frankly don’t understand when it comes to finding a mentor. It’s always about, “What can I have? What can I have? What can you give me?” but it’s not just about that. Is it?

Erik:
No, no. I mean, it’s really about, for me, it was the mindset. That was the hardest part. That was the biggest struggle for me, was do I need a mentor because it seemed like a sign of weakness, right? It was something that I really had to mentally sort of come to terms with. Then, when I realized, wait a minute, I’m going to gain so much from being around people that are doing what I want to do and people that are accomplishing what seemed to me the impossible, so it was Matt. It was his partner now, Justin Fraser who really sort of took me under their wing and then made me feel comfortable with doing the stuff that I wasn’t comfortable with, like analyzing the numbers and doing a bunch of left brain activities that a right brainer doesn’t normally do.
Yeah, it was just a ton of things that when I realized, and still to this day, practice that, how can I offer value? How can I give you something that you need? How can I solve a problem or alleviate some pain that you’re feeling in your business, in your personal life? Then, with zero in return, any expectation of anything in return, it’s really truly an almost, I hate to use the word, magically works. It really does work. I’m always shouting this from the mountaintops like, “Folks, just add value. Have an abundance mindset.” Then, it really will start to align a lot of the things that you’re trying to accomplish for yourself.

J:
Yeah. That whole idea of adding value is so tremendously important. I think back on all the partners Carol and I have had over the years and all the people we’ve mentored over the years, and pretty much every single one of them didn’t start with them coming to me and say, “How can you help me?” It started by them coming to us and saying, “How can I help you guys?” That just generates this feeling of a need to reciprocate, this feeling for reciprocity where it’s, “Oh my God, this person’s offering me value for free, asking for nothing in return. I can’t, by virtue of who I am say, I’m not going to give you anything in return, so I’m going to give whatever I can in return.” It’s just, it’s like you said. It’s that mindset of offer value before you ask for value because it will come back to you.

Erik:
A hundred percent. A hundred percent.

Carol:
Great. So, what is the next step in your journey? You had this aha moment. What if I take those 60, 70 hours a week, take all that energy, build something for myself? You reached out to a few people to be your mentors and so on. What is the next step in building your business?

Erik:
Yeah, so I want to go back for a second to what I was talking about where I started to get comfortable in real estate and started to acquire multi-families and then eventually, as you guys know and love, the [Renault 00:12:07] Winery project got involved with that. That was all happening at the same time as I was building On Air Brands and PodMAX, and there was a crossroads where I was like, “Do I continue becoming a real estate investor and getting into syndication where my good friends and partners have been and are going? Or do I build this media agency and stay in the creative space, which I love and super passionate about and feel really confident to help more people in that industry especially in the real estate investing community?”
So, that’s where we currently are, is how do we keep building and creating more because the podcasting industry obviously is exploding? I just heard today that Sirius is buying Stitcher. So, SiriusXM, a satellite company, is now realizing that they may be done or it’s an antiquated sort of form of technology, so they’re trying to get into the podcasting game, and everyone else is. So, On Air Brands really sort of helps and brings the solutions for podcast production and creation, but then at the same time, it birth an event where we thought, let’s leverage everyone we know, all the podcasters, all the people who want to be on podcasts, and put them in a room together. How about we just create an event one day and solve the pain point where people are trying to get on podcasts, but we make it super efficient? How about you get on three, four, five shows all in one day? We batch it, and then we have all the podcasters there. You get to meet them. You’re big fans, and then you shake their hands.
I always say the magic happens when the mic turns off because that’s really, truly when partnerships, relationships, all of that stuff gets formed. I like to highlight my podcast, Entrepreneurs Circle, the top three downloads are business partners. That’s not by coincidence. They are movers and shakers that are doing a lot of big things, and they saw that there was an opportunity for us to work together and collaborate. Well, then you start to build and grow really cool stuff together because of podcasting. That’s where it all starts.

J:
So, it sounds to me like there are so many people out there that think of podcasting as kind of I’m either going to consume it or I’m going to create it, but you’ve actually built a network, and you’re doing both sides. You’ve said, “Let me build the podcast brands,” not just your own podcast, but other people’s podcasts, you’ve brought into your network. But then you’ve done the other side where you’ve said, “Okay, now that I have this network of providers, let’s bring in the people that actually want to get on podcast and give them their opportunity as well.” So, you’re kind of serving both audiences, which gives you not just more leverage, but it also gives you more control. And a lot of times in business, it comes down to control. You’re controlling both sides. You’re controlling the network, the medium, but you’re also controlling the content by bringing on the guests.

Erik:
Yeah, absolutely. And what I found was as podcast host, we often get to experience something, we can control the narrative a bit and we can pick and choose who we want on our show, who we want to shine a light, who we want to help.
And I understood that the person on the other side of the mic is gaining a ton too, they’re leveraging my community, my listeners, as well as my friends and their podcasts. Well, I started to understand there was a need there. People wanted to be a guest. They didn’t understand that this was a platform that they can actually jump onto, because if you don’t have a podcast then you don’t understand, it’s a low barrier to entry. Let’s admit, right? It’s a low barrier, which means it’s more difficult and demanding to have success in it.
Well, I started to talk to my network and say, “You want to be on my show? You want to be on this show? You want to be on another one? Well, how about we just give you more of that?” And they came, people started to really pay attention and say, “Wow, you’re going to get me on a bunch of shows and on that one too?” And it was really cool to sort of take networking to another level where it wasn’t just about the podcasting, it was about meeting other entrepreneurs who were performing at high levels, as well as starting to educate. That’s what we’re doing now is we put amazing keynotes on stage that can really help business owners figure things out, whether it’s podcasting or just business in general, or how they’re taking things to the next level and what they do for their clients. So, it’s really just all these unique synergies that start to happen as a result of what we’ve created, and it’s ultimately helping more people. That’s really truly where my passion lies.

Carol:
I love that. So, just to be clear and talk a little bit more, you had mentioned earlier in the interview about your networking and the power of networking. And now you’re circling back in talking about building out this business. It sounds like you just went out to that network. It sounds like there wasn’t necessarily a solid marketing budget or marketing plan. It sounds like you literally just started talking with people, emailing people, seeing is this something that might work for you in syncing everybody up together? Does that sound about right? And can you talk more about that and how it just grew organically by a systematic approach through your networking?

Erik:
Yeah, a hundred percent. Thanks for that, Carol, appreciate it. The idea of putting a lot of people in a room together takes time. Networking takes time. So, really it’s all about being consistent and showing up. So, it first started off with me going to [inaudible 00:17:37], small ones, 10 people then eventually 20 to 50 or a hundred where I worked my way up over time to get in front of the room. That’s where I noticed that I could probably gain the most leverage if I become friends with whoever’s in front of the room, really start to offer value in their life and their business, and then eventually I was offered the stage and then eventually I was offered to run and help run the meetings. And then eventually it morphed into me becoming a board member. So, having more visibility, more leverage, more control over this 1000 plus membership in our local [inaudible 00:18:15].
So, that’s when I started to really build my network by leveraging a network that already existed and started to position myself as a thought leader. And of course, this wasn’t innate. I wasn’t coming up with these solutions on my own. This is stuff I was educating myself on watching Gary Vee, watching all these people do it and telling us, “Document the journey. Become a thought leader. Create content.” I was practicing that and also building my network at the same time while others weren’t doing it, as you guys can probably imagine the real estate investing community is somewhat… It’s old-fashioned, right?
So, when I started doing it several years ago, the majority of the people there were like, “I don’t get it. I don’t understand social media.” So, when starting on their brands, I was like, “What’s the easiest way I can sort of make and help them to understand.” And I’m like, “Oh, ABC, NBC, CBS, think of that as channels, and the same as YouTube, Instagram, Facebook. You need to be on these channels. You have an opportunity to tell your message and share how much value you add to businesses by getting on these channels, they’re available to you.” And then it resonated. People started to get it. They’re like, “Oh man, this guy knows what he’s talking about.” It was just a simple concept that I’m sure I picked up from Gary Vee. I don’t think I came up with that on my own.
So yeah, and then over time, Carol, it was that, it was building a business through relationships and networking and growing the network to the point where I literally would make phone calls and say, “Do you want to come to this event? It’s brand new. This is the concept. I’m trying to prove the concept here.” And they came. They all came for the first one, the second one, the third one. It just kept snowballing into this massive thing where now it’s virtual and now there’s no excuses or limits for speakers and people to attend.

J:
I mean, in that three minutes you were just talking, there were so many amazing tips that you just kind of glossed over because they’re so obvious to you, but I have to highlight them because these are things that I need to remind myself of constantly, and our listeners need to really think about. Number one, you said, and this was a direct quote from you, “It’s all about being consistent and showing up.” And that is a theme that we hear over and over and over from the successful entrepreneurs we have on this show. It’s all about being consistent and showing up, doing it day in and day out. Being an entrepreneur is a rollercoaster, and there are going to be days, probably more bad days than good days where you just want to give up and you’re just like, “This isn’t working. I haven’t gained any traction.”
But those of us that have actually done this over weeks and months and years and decades, realize that the whole thing is kind of like a hockey stick. I mean, if you’ve seen that hockey stick chart where you don’t gain traction, don’t gain traction, then one day it could be six months from now or it could be six years from now, you start gaining a little bit of traction and it snowballs, and really so many people give up before that snowball starts. So number one, I just absolutely love that mentality, it’s all about being consistent and showing up.
Number two, you said, “I worked my way up to the front of the room.” That’s another thing that too many of us when we’re starting out, we take for granted. We see people like you and people like… You talk about Gary Vee, and all these other people we look up to, and you think one day they woke up and they were just famous. One day they woke up and they were just well known and making lots of money. That’s not the way it works.
Gary Vee, I guarantee you, will tell the stories about how he was begging to just get in the room, let alone the front of the room, at some point. I know I started out by just take any speaking I could, because I just wanted to be in the same room, on the same stage, as other people. And you work your way up. So just remember, everybody just needs to remember that it really is about working your way up and taking it slowly one step at a time. And then the third thing you said that I just thought was amazing was you didn’t come up with this stuff on your own. It was from listening to others.
Too many people think, “I need to be brilliant. I need to know everything. I need to invent new stuff and come up with new ideas.” Let me tell you something. I’ve written four books. There is not a single word in any one of those books that hasn’t been written before I wrote it. I just did the hard work of studying and learning and putting those words together in a way that makes it clear and concise. And so if anybody is out there thinking, “I need to come up with something new. I want to start a podcast, but I don’t have a brand new angle, or I don’t have guests that have never been on other podcasts.” It doesn’t matter. It’s really all about studying and learning. And there’s nothing most of us are going to do…
99% of us are never going to do anything truly unique. And that’s okay. It’s just doing the stuff that’s already been done, but doing it better. And that’s what it sounds like you’ve focused on is taking stuff that people have already done, but taking it to the next level and doing it better. So I know that was a long winded soliloquy there, but those three things were really so important. And anybody that’s listening to this should just hit rewind five minutes back and listen to this all again, because those three tips are literally going to take a lot of our listeners from nowhere to somewhere if all they do is just listen to those three things.

Erik:
I love that. I love that. And you can keep talking brother, because I’ve learned so much from you over the years, really, truly. I’m super happy and humbled to be with you and Carol, because I absorbed all of your books and I’ve learned so much from just the content and the blogs and everything you guys have created. But I also wanted to highlight something you said too, is that we have to be okay with eating a little humble pie once in a while. So when I started going to real estate meetings, I was a over six figure earning corporate exec, going to these meetups and working with, and watching, 20 somethings, early 30s, talking about stuff that I wanted to do, I wanted to figure out and learn. And what I would do is I would always be the first in the door and I was always the last to leave with them.
And I would break down the PA system. And I was like, “What else do you need?” I would put chairs up on tables. I would do anything that I needed to do in order to be recognized, and also to just have more of their time. So I could ask questions and figure things out as they were just doing their normal thing. So really it’s all about just putting your ego aside and knowing that if there’s something out there that you want and you need, or you really, truly passionately desire something, there’s going to be someone out there that knows way more than you. Sidle up next to them and say, “Hey, anything that you need, how can I help you? How can I help you? How can I help you?” And eventually they’ll notice you and they’ll say, “Yeah, come on in and do this, this and this.” I’ll do whatever it is.

Carol:
I love everything you just talked about, especially about the eating the humble pie, putting that ego aside, being willing to get in there, clean up, put the chairs on the tables and so on. We’ve spoken with so many people over the past several months, as I’m sure you have as well, that I think are at a crossroads in their careers as well, right? Especially through everything that’s happened these past several months, people are saying, why am I doing this for somebody else? It’s clear I can be productive and powerful and create my own awesome life on my own from home. Right? But a lot of people, I think, are leery or a little bit hesitant to do what they might consider taking a step backwards, going back down to the bottom of the ladder. But I think everything you’ve talked about is such a great reminder that you know what, it doesn’t matter where you are in the power cycle, just get in there, do what needs to be done, and eventually you will get to that front of the room.
You will get the information that you need. You will form good partnerships. So I would love to talk more, Erik, about now that you have gained influence, now that you have built these powerful networks, you’ve created these great events. We were speaking earlier about all the branding consultation that you do in building these brands for all of these entrepreneurs around their businesses. And we were talking specifically about something that I think would be incredibly powerful for our listeners, which is you have, I think, four principles that are called the four C’s. And I think that that is such a huge part of your overall brand, of so many things that have to offer. So can you maybe talk with us about that? So our listeners can get even some more awesome information.

Erik:
Yeah, 100%. I mean, this really stemmed from practice obviously, and just distilling it into something simple as like the four C’s. But then also, decades of interviewing clients for their needs. So I would always have to go into a conference room in whatever corporate job that I was in, and go through an assessment form and ask them a bunch of questions. And then I would really just model what I learned there. I mean, I’m not bagging corporate America completely. I learned a ton, it was school. I was getting paid to go to school. It was a university. And then what happened was I really picked up a lot of great habits in terms of, how do I extract information from clients which built on-air brands. So I would always like to go deep and ask them one question.
So for example, someone would say, “Hey, I want a podcast. How do I create one, and can you help me?” Well, why do you want a podcast? Well, because everyone has one. Okay, let’s ask another why. Why do you think you need one that every… Well, because I want to talk to more people. Okay. That’s great. Why do you want to talk to more people? Well, I have an offering. I have something that I’m doing that’s really cool and unique. Okay. So then why… So I would just keep going deeper and deeper and deeper until we get to really the crux of why they want to create whatever it is they want to create.
So this goes right into the four C’s, where once you find out that why, which we all always talk about on BiggerPockets and all these other shows, what is the reason, the driving force, the rocket fuel in your ship? Well, once you figure that out, the first of the four C’s is clarity in that message. How do you find a message that’s unique to you that can resonate with people? You don’t have to think too out of body to say, “How does my story connect with everyone?” Just tell your unique story. What struggles have you had? For me, it’s being in corporate America for 22 years, and then figuring it out, why am I building for someone else? Let me build for myself. That’s my story.
So then you find that message within yourself, what have you accomplished over your lifetime and share that message out there with people. Then the second C, once you start to resonate and be that beacon of light for people, because once they hear that message, they will come. People will start to ask you questions. People will start to show up at meetups and say, “Hey, I heard you on this show or I heard your podcast, or I read that blog that you wrote.”
Well, then eventually overtime, if you’re doing your writing and you’re offering value and you’re really helping people, then a community will start to form. So that’s the fourth C. You start to nurture that community, start to continue to offer value. How can I help you? How can I connect you to other people? So then that leads to the fourth, the third, which is connection. How do I start to, now that my community is formed and there’s maybe dozens or hundreds of people that are paying attention to what I am saying and doing?
Well, then now I start to connect to the people that can help each other and/or the people that I feel I can best help or are movers and shakers, and I can say, “Oh, you know what? I have this thing here that I’ve built. What if we bolted onto what you’re doing?” So you start to make the connections and start to really see the magic and the momentum of it all, which leads into the fourth C, which is collaboration. Because then now that’s the ultimate way to start building businesses and relationships and networks, because now you’re starting to do stuff together. You’re starting to put teams together. You’re starting to put ideas together and you’re starting to collaborate to build something massive way bigger than you, way bigger than them.
And that’s really I feel truly the four C’s starting from a message and then going into your community, and then helping and nurturing and fostering that, and then making the connections within your mind within your network, and then boom, just collaborate and let’s build together.

J:
I love that. I especially like that first C and I think that’s where a lot of us… And I know I’ve made this mistake in my career have gotten confused. A lot of us thinks, okay, we can just go in and do a whole bunch of stuff. It’s quantity over focus. It’s if I go in and I write a book, and I do a podcast, and I try and do some speaking and I show up to events, and I flip some houses, and I do this and that, I’m going to become well-known for something.
But that’s not the way it works. It really is figuring out a specific message, a specific goal, a specific… Kind of defining the brand. We talk a lot about business plans with the show and our business plans needed. And what I like to tell people is a business plan is always needed.
It doesn’t have to be a 30-page document that you write down, but it does have to be something that in your head, you’re clear about what you’re trying to build. And it doesn’t matter if you’re trying to build a business. It doesn’t matter if you’re trying to write a book. It doesn’t matter if you’re trying to build a brand, before you sit down and start trying build, you have to be clear on what you’re trying to build.
I mean, I have to imagine that you’ve talked a lot of people and you talked about the whole, why, why, why, why, why. What percentage of people do you think fail simply because they don’t hit that first C? They don’t know why they’re doing what they’re doing and they haven’t defined what they’re doing. And in my experience, it’s a tremendous number. That’s specifically the reason they fail.

Erik:
Yeah. So helping to run a thousand plus member REA, honestly, J, I’d say, 99% fail, 99%. Just because the amount of people that I’ve started to connect and work with are so small. One or two people that I’ve continued to work with over the years, and if I count all the people that I’ve met and all the people that I’ve tried to help, yeah, it’s real. You’re right. It’s a small percentage of people that actually want to do the work because it takes work. I forgot. I think it’s Edison that said, “People shy away from, from building something because it shows up in overalls and jeans.” Because it’s work. They don’t want to put the work in. That’s the way to differentiate yourself from everyone else, put their freaking work in.

J:
Yeah. And part of it’s our fault. I mean, especially with social media. I get on social media and I try and talk about my failures. I try and talk about the day to day. But in reality, people probably just see the successes. I wrote a Facebook post today about our accomplishments from the last month. And in retrospect, I should have talked about all our failures from the last month because the message that we need to be sending to people isn’t that you get out there, and if you’re smart and you’re good then from day one, you’re just succeeding.
Because that’s not true. No matter how good you are, day one, you’re failing. Day two, you’re failing. Year five, you’re probably failing. But if you fail enough, you’re going to succeed. And so I think that’s part of just this whole too much social media. Not too much. Social media is awesome, but the way people tend to use social media is they use it to magnify their successes and minimize their struggles and the people that are trying to follow them get the wrong impression of what that ratio of failures to success is.

Erik:
I love what you’re saying, because I think people need to recognize that, yes, you want to wave the flag and say, “Hey, look what I accomplished. Look what I succeeded in.” But then also if you highlight the failures and what you’ve learned from them, it’s really going to make you more relatable to people. People are going to probably reach out to you more if you start to share those failures.
So I highly recommend that you put it out there, but if you put it out there, it’s not a therapy session for you. It’s more about here’s what I screwed up on, or here’s how I fell flat on my face. But here’s what I learned from it, folks in now I’m going to share it with you. You don’t have to fall on your face because I did it. Now you could go leverage what it is that I’ve learned from that failure.

Carol:
Love it. Absolutely love it. So I would love to know more, Erik, about with on-air brands, you’ve talked about building these virtual events, these virtual communities. Can you talk more about a couple of different things? What specific types of podcasts are part of on-air brands, who you decide to bring in, how you decide… Who you decide, how you decide? Just the whole process about who they are, how those decisions are made, what’s going to make a successful brand, a successful show, et cetera?

Erik:
Yeah. So the easy part of that, Carol was the honor brands network was really the podcasts that we produced, the family, the people that we’ve created and helped to create shows for. So the majority of those in the beginning was real estate investing. Because that’s what we were. We’re investors and let’s talk about investing, your syndication, raising capital, whatever it is.
So overtime it’s developed into a roughly 50% of our network is real estate investing and the other 50 is business chat like this, entrepreneurial podcasts. But over time as we started to expand and grow the network, we have over two dozen podcast shows and hosts. Well, yeah, we do have criteria where 100 episodes at least … great audio, great content, a personality that really jumps at you. Things where we wanted to really define our brand so that people can expect a certain quality when coming in as, now, an entrepreneur. The entrepreneurs, the criteria there is you have to be someone that’s a mover and a shaker. Someone that not necessarily … I mean, we talk to startups. We talk to a ton of startups. But someone you could feel the energy and the passion for what it is they do, and they have a story to tell. They have something that they want to share.
And what’s really cool is what’s happened … and this wasn’t by design, but it all makes sense now that you see other businesses, and how they do it, and why they do it, is we’re now educating people to become better guests, even better hosts. What is the story? What is the clarity that you have in your message? And then we start to walk people through before our events now, because it was needed. They were asking for it. Like, “I want to be a guest, but I’m not confident. I’m unsure of what I’m trying to say.” Then we run them through the ropes, and we do scenarios where we’re like, “Hey, this is J Scott on the BiggerPockets…” We make it feel real, and then they feel so much better and confident going into the event, and being on a bunch of shows.

J:
That’s great. This kind of leads me into my next question. This is a business podcast. We’re talking about businesses, and it sounds like you’re kind of running a business that has a lot of different facets. Again, you’re the content creator, but you’re also providing the content sources. And just at a high level, what is the business model, the financial model look like? Are you making money from creating the podcast? Are you making money just from the events, a combination of both, other sources, advertising? What is the business model of On Air Brands and PodMAX, and the whole conglomerate? What does that look like?

Erik:
Yeah. I want to address one thing that you said there first, and then I’ll go backwards. A lot of people who ask for podcasts, the first thing they ask … and I’m sure you’ve heard this a million times. “Okay. How can I put ads on my show? How can I get ads?” They think very old school, traditional radio. That’s not how we leverage our podcasts.
I mean, think of this analogy where you have this baby. It’s a baby. It’s brand new podcast. And then you slap a ZipRecruiter logo right on their face, or BiggerPockets right on their forehead. You got to give it some time. Let it marinate. Let your show gain traction before you start to sort of put it out there for advertisers. But advertising is great. Not everybody can leverage that, because we’re not known … these show podcasts aren’t huge, huge.
We really leverage our shows to promote ourselves and what it is we do, and our partners and what they do. If my partner has a property management group, or a title agency, or they have something in the digital space … well, then we put ads there and we don’t charge. It’s really just this whole ecosystem of cross-promotion and cross pollination that really works well for our network. But then to go back and distill what you were talking about, a breakdown … So, On Air Brands is creative in production for podcasts. We do all the social media marketing behind it.
If you come and say, “I need a podcast, I have no idea how to create one.” Well, we’ll have that conversation, that consult. We’ll break it down. What it is. What are you trying to provide? Is it unique? If not, let’s try to create some unique qualities to it. And then we create the branding. That’s where … my super power came from branding. And then I create a unique brand for the podcast, and then I translated it in audio where now it’s a unique audio brand.
We’re going to launch … Okay, spoiler alert. About to launch [Sonic Brands 00:39:42] through our network where now … You know like Netflix when you turn it on it goes, “Boom, boom?” Well, we created our own Sonic Brand so that when people … they come into the network, they’re like, “Oh, I have this unique sound to my show that’s only with On Air Brands.” We’re trying to do a lot of cool innovative stuff in terms of On Air Brands.
Then PodMAX, as you asked, J, was … the original thought was, “Oh, we’ll just ask entrepreneurs to invest in an opportunity to come for one day, and record on a bunch of podcasts and network,” and all these other things that we started to add into the event. That was the source of revenue. Entrepreneurs pay a ticket to get in for the day. It was fully catered. We had high-end food, and servers, and it was a really cool event when it was live.
But then we started to figure out that there are hosts that want to invest, and pay, and becoming associated with the network, associated with the bigger brands. So, we’re starting to sort of build that aspect of the business as well. But then now there’s other verticals that we’re starting to recognize, and they’re all being built now as we speak. The coaching. The consulting. How do I become a better podcast? How do I become a better guest? We’re starting to educate people and just offer all of this for free, but eventually it’s going to be in a closed network with a library of material and content. Really, it’s a university that we’re building so that people can really get better and bigger than what they’re doing.

Carol:
This is so cool on so, so many levels. I love hearing all about this amazing ecosystem that you started, and very strategically has exploded and become so huge. Again, I keep referring back to these past few months of everything we’ve all been through. But I want to talk a little bit about specifically about new podcasters. You’re giving so much great information about growing these brands, about how you work with these companies on providing and working with them to develop clarity around the message they want to deliver, what they stand for, and so on in the first place.
Side note. I suspect you know this as well, with everybody being at home through COVID, like you said, podcasting is exploding. Everybody is becoming a podcaster. We know this for a fact, because when our producer wanted to send some microphones out to some of our guests, we discovered … he called us and let us know, “We got to find an alternate solution. You can’t get them on Amazon. They’re six weeks back-ordered.” Right? There are lots of new people in this space. Are there any tips you might have for listeners who might be interested in getting into podcasting, or have just started? Are looking for ways to start gaining more traction? A few low-hanging fruits of the types of things they could be doing to be more successful out of the gate?

Erik:
Yeah. I do, Carol, want to highlight to anyone out there who is thinking about starting a podcast but always has those limiting beliefs. Like, “Everyone has a podcast. I have nothing to say.” Well, when you figure that out and you find the clarity in your message, just try it. Do it. Get out there and create a podcast. It’s so easy. That’s what we were talking about earlier in the show. There’s a low barrier to entry, but there’s a higher rate and difficulty in success. If you stick with it … and I highly recommend it. I think they call it podfade in the industry. If you can get past eight to 10 episodes, you’re more likely to succeed. So get past that.
And a lot of people do things … we tried this too, where we record eight to 10 episodes right off the bat and then we launch it with that in the bag. Well, I just say start. Just start. If you have one, two, three episodes, and then if it feels right for you … because it’s not for everyone. If it feels right, you’re getting something out of it, you’re feeling some satisfaction and you think you’re helping people, that’s great. Continue to do it. Keep pushing out, pushing, pushing, pushing. But then once you get into the game, you have to start leveling up. We bought really cheap microphones when we first started off of Amazon for 20 to 30 bucks. But eventually we realized, if we want to play with the big boys like J and Carol, we need to start leveling up our equipment, our headphones, our microphones, our recording equipment.
So then that’s where you start to get into a little bit of an investment. So depending on what your budget is, I would recommend you buy high quality mics. So this mic right here is a hundred dollars, but it sounds amazing. I mean, the Holy Grail, as podcasters probably know, the SM7B, which is the Rogan, Tim Ferriss mic, that’s amazing. Now, eventually I want to buy that four or five hundred dollar mic. But this right now, what you’re listening to, is a hundred dollar mic made by Road. It’s awesome. And I don’t have any affiliation with them. I just love their products. So buy that. I highly recommend you buy a recording device. What we use is the Zoom H6. And that was brought to me by Tim Ferriss. Tim Ferriss did a whole episode talking about all the equipment he uses.
I’m like, “If he’s using it, I’m using it. That’s perfect for him. Obviously, it’s going to be great for me.” So then you have to be able to record and then also use tools to edit because there could be … if you guys know tons of podcasters out there that do zero editing, they don’t have an intro or they do don’t do anything to stand out, to they make it sound like a premium show that somebody should invest their time in. Well, you want to stand out from the crowd, hire someone, hire a VA, hire someone out there that’s an editor that has experience. And then you can start to notice that you are different from a lot of the shows out there. And it really, really will help you, give you the confidence to continue going, and then also really set you apart from all the other podcasters that are starting to come around.

Carol:
Super. I love all those tips and I think they’re super, super valuable for our listeners. Thank you so much.

J:
I want to know what’s next. So how does On Air Brands, how does the event, how does everything you’re doing, how does it grow? What’s it look like a year or two, three from now?

Erik:
Yeah. So we’ve really found the power in the event. So PodMAX, we’re doubling down on, tripling down on all of our team’s energy and time. I’ve really molded the team to be less creative in production on the On Air Brand side and become really heavy in the event space. So a big shout out to Devin and Jake on my team and Josh and everyone that really puts a lot of time and effort and energy into creating an event that’s truly unique.
So I wanted to highlight, J and Carol, this one thing that happened to us recently, where we had a PodMAX event. It was our first virtual. We didn’t use the word virtual. We said, “Let’s do something different, global.” So we called it PodMAX global because people were in Australia and Hawaii and Canada all over the place coming to our one event.
So when we did it, we had James Orsini, who was the president, he’s Gary Vee’s right hand and he runs the Sasha group and Vayner X. So he did his thing, his keynote. And after the event, he emailed me and said, “You did something really cool and unique. We’re trying to do this ourselves for the Sasha group, a unique Facebook community that we’re building. Do you mind having a meeting with us and telling us how you did it or some of the tips? We just want to extract some of the cool stuff you did?” And guys, I couldn’t believe what was happening and even up and from that email to the meeting, I’m like, “Gary Vee’s company is asking us how to build an online virtual event that’s unique.” So that’s when I knew something was happening and it was different from everyone else.
So we were able to take our live event and really translate it and make it better virtually. So I could break that down on how that happened. That’s a whole sort of different episode. But J, to answer your question, we want to do more of that because we see there’s magic behind it and people really love it. So we want to try to get it to a monthly event. So virtually now with COVID, which was great. The silver lining for us was we were planning to build virtual, but we didn’t have the time because we were running from state to state and trying to do these live events, which takes a lot of time and energy.
So then we’re like, “Let’s do virtual. We have no choice but to build something during COVID.” So nose to grindstone, crunched out this virtual event over the course of a month and then, wow, it exploded. And now we’re going to try to do that every month, still with the plan to do live events, hopefully, every quarter, anywhere between 20 to 50 people when that’s allowed. And then we want to morph into conferences. So PodMAX conferences, where now we start to take everyone from virtual, everyone from the smaller events to these larger hundreds, if not hopefully, eventually, thousands of people coming to PodMAX conferences on an annual basis.

J:
Love it.

Carol:
That is so cool. And you’ve expanded beyond the real estate space. Right? Have you done other industries in addition to real estate?

Erik:
Oh, yeah. Every type of industry you can imagine from a pet sitting company to therapists or to business consultants, authors. Yeah. You name it, we have every type of entrepreneur that’s come through PodMAX.

Carol:
So cool.

J:
Absolutely love that. And I love the fact that the recent COVID issues that we’ve all been facing, a lot of business owners out there are out there struggling and basically giving up, saying, “Okay, I’m going to wait for it to be over.” You basically turned it into an opportunity to say, “How can I serve, not just my customers. Not how can I keep things as big as they were, but how could I use it to grow and expand?” And so now you’ve realized that from the virtual, you can hit whole new target audiences. You can hit other countries. And with all the struggles that a lot of us have been going through in our businesses the last few months, it’s always great to see business owners that have kind of been creative and figured out ways to actually grow their business during this time. So just a good reminder for all of our listeners out there that you don’t just have to be struggling right now. If you get creative and you work hard, you can actually be growing your business right now.

Erik:
Yeah. Yeah. We have this guy, Matt Higgins, and I’m hoping to share and cross pollinate here, where he talks about this, literally, how ask yourself the question. It’s not, “What am I going to do with my business now?” It’s like, “What can I do to service what people are asking for? How can I pivot my business and create something new and create something that people are going to want and need.” And we didn’t know. Honestly, to be fully transparent, I was scared. I don’t know what we’re doing. I don’t know if this is going to translate well, we just need to do it. And just trust in the process.
We know the live event worked and let’s just put it out there. We don’t know what to price it at. We don’t know what people are willing to invest in. We just didn’t know the answers and imagine if we didn’t do it, we never would have gotten the answers. And it’s really, truly that testament to being entrepreneurs and taking risks and figuring out, okay, let me try this. And if it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. But if it does, look out, because here we come.

Carol:
I love it. Love it. Absolutely love it. Wow. This is so good. Erik, we’re about to the point where we were running a little long, which is a good thing, because of so much great information. I want to get to Four More. Before we do that though, I think our listeners have to hear this story.
You mentioned you took PodMAX Global, you made it in international events. And I think it’s worth noting that you are an international superstar for another event that occurred in your life. And so much to the dismay of your wife, who I’m guessing is going to be like, “Are you kidding me? You’re telling that story again.” We’ve got to hear it. Our audience needs to hear your amazing baby story. Please share.

Erik:
Yeah. So I have a 15 to 20 minute version, which I will cut down, hopefully to minutes, that I told, as I mentioned to you guys earlier on the GoBro stage. GoBundance had gave me the opportunity to actually do this during a GoTalk, which was really cool because I never told the story on stage.
We were expecting our second child and everything was supposed to be the predictable plan where she feels the pains and then we jumped into the car and then we head over to the hospital. Well, that all started to play out perfectly. Except her contractions went from one contraction to many contractions over the course of 30 minutes. And when I realized it was go time was when she couldn’t even get down the stairs and I’m like, we got to get in the car and let’s get you to the hospital, which is 20 minutes away.
At the time our oldest was I think three or four and she’s freaking out. She has no idea what’s happening. I’m just throwing her in the car seat without even buckling her in. We’re headed off down the driveway. And thankfully her mother shows up and I throw Veronica over to her. And now it’s just me and my wife. We don’t have to worry about traumatizing our then three-year-old.
So then when we were driving, I was Marty McFly in Back to the Future, driving 88 miles an hour, I’m not even exaggerating, on shoulders, past semi-trucks, honking the horn, going past red lights. And at some point I look over, Carol, to my right and I never broke focus on the road, I just use my peripheral to see her. And she’s pulling her pants down and I’m like, no, this is not happening. What’s going on?
And it’s either continue driving, which seemed like a terrible idea or pull over. So I pulled over and I’ll tell you guys, I’ll never forget this moment. When I opened the door, the three seconds, it took me to run around to her side was a half an hour because I saw everything in slow motion. People were driving past me and I’m like, that guy must be a doctor. Or maybe I can pull that person over? I’ll run up to the house and I’ll ask to use their phone.
And no, wait a minute, I have a cell phone. What am I thinking? So finally opened her door and there I look, there’s the baby’s head, it’s coming out. And I’m like, what in the world? This is, it’s go time. It’s not even thinking at this point. So I just get down on my knees and I put my arms out and she literally slides into my arms.
She slides right into my arms and I looked down and I’m like, “Hey baby.” And I looked down and she’s breathing, everything’s fine. And I see the ambulance and the cops are coming. I see the lights. And I’m like, wow, that was fast. And then I’ll never forget, this kid, wet behind the ears, must’ve been right on the force, starts putting these rubber gloves on. And I tell my wife, “Oh my God, there’s this kid coming. He looks like he’s 12.”
She pulls me close and she says, “Would you please put my pants back on?” I forgot she was half naked. So the craziest thing about it Carol and I’m sure my wife will like, “Oh Carol, please identify with this and me.” Because when they got there, the baby was there. Everything was fine. The cops were literally taking selfies surrounding me and practically lifting me on their shoulders. “For he’s a jolly good fellow, for he’s a…” Sticking cigars in my mouth and giving me a chalice and a goblet and celebrating what I had just done rather than paying attention to my wife, who was by the way in a gurney getting put into the ambulance.
So anyway, everything worked out fine, everything was wonderful. But then we were in a bubble in the hospital. I didn’t know that it became this media storm. Obviously there was nothing going on in the news. They needed this. So they were really focusing on putting me on headlines, on news and people were calling me. I didn’t know my phone was blowing up and I didn’t find out until we left. But yeah, my wife does not love that story because she’s like, “Come on, man, you did nothing. I did all the work.”

J:
[crosstalk 00:55:34]. You know what the best part yet, I was going to say the best part of this story is your involvement started and stopped with you putting your arms out and catching a baby, catching a slow falling baby is all you did, literally is all you did, but you’re getting all the credits.

Erik:
So true, so true. Shout out to my wife, we love you, Jade.

J:
And that’s how you build a brand.

Erik:
That’s how you build a brand, exactly. You have to build it and you birth it. And then there it is. But yeah, it was really magical. And we named her after the street. So, her name is Natalie Ward and she was born on Ward street.

Carol:
No way, I did not know that part of the story. That is so cool. But overall, what an amazing part of your life story, right? I mean that, well, even if it wasn’t a media sensation, that one will go down for the ages and wow. If that isn’t living right there, what is? So cool. Thank you for sharing.

Erik:
And all you did was put your arms out, and catch a slow falling baby [crosstalk 00:56:38].

Carol:
All right. We got it. We got it. Enough. Enough.

Erik:
And he’s taken all the credit.

Carol:
All right. Let’s move to Four More. I think it’s about that time. So Erik, this is the part of our show where we have four questions we ask of our guests rapid fire style. You’re going to tell us the first thing that comes to mind, those are the four. And then the more is at the end. You’re going to tell us and our listeners all about you, where they can find about more and connect. Sound good?

Erik:
Absolutely.

Carol:
Fantastic. So J, you take the first question.

J:
I will take the first question. Erik, what was your very first or very worst, I’ll let you decide, job, and what did you take from it that you’re still using today?

Erik:
So my first and also coincidentally, the worst was I was pushing carts as a teenager in a grocery store, supermarket local to where I lived and I’ll never forget this. Somebody threw an egg and it hit my chest. And I was, what the heck? And I look around, there was no one there. And I look down and on my chest and half on my name tag was this hot steaming seagull crap on me. And I thought to myself, “Man, is this where I am now?” I’m pushing carts for minimum wage and I’m getting crapped on by seagulls. And I remember looking up and he was literally laughing at me, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Oh my goodness. I think I quit that day. I think I took my badge off, threw it on the ground and just quit. I think I just went home. And what did I take from that day? I don’t know. It was, don’t be crapped on. Don’t let people crap on you.

J:
Love it.

Carol:
Oh my gosh, that is… I’m dying over here. Oh my gosh, that is so funny. Okay. Compose yourself, Carol. All right, question number two. Wow. When did you first get the entrepreneurial itch?

Erik:
Man, I was always doing entrepreneurial activities, but didn’t realize it. Selling candy, selling fireworks. It was crazy that my parents actually allowed me to sell fireworks to the neighborhood kids. That was nuts. Imagine the liability. But it wasn’t really the aha moment, which I mentioned earlier in this episode when I was punching the steering wheel and the dashboard, after listening to Kiyosaki, tell me that I was a fool for staying in corporate America for so long and not building my own brands.

J:
Cool. Okay. I see you have a bookshelf behind you. A whole lot of good books. Tell our listeners what’s the best book they should be reading that they probably haven’t read yet.

Erik:
Yeah. So a book that no one talks about that really shifted my mindset in terms of branding and aligning with bigger brands and being associated with bigger brands in order to leapfrog what I was doing. There was a book that I came across called Brandscaping by a guy named Andrew Davis. And it really talks about the power of partnerships, a lot of what we discussed here. So I think people can really extract a lot of the stuff that I was saying here from that book, it’s called Brandscaping.

Carol:
Cool. Thank you. Brandscaping. Make note of that and put that in the show notes too. Okay. The fourth question, which is absolutely my favorite. Erik, what is something along the way in either your work life or your personal life that you have splurged on that was totally worth it?

Erik:
Yeah, so personal life we splurged for our honeymoon. We went to Australia. That was like going to another planet. And then the professional side, we invested in swag. You wouldn’t think that’s a big deal. But when we really saw brand champions develop and people becoming loyal to what we’re doing by just giving them some quality swag. We developed these jackets and J, I think you may have seen it at [inaudible 01:00:23], people were wearing these PodMAX jackets. They were embroidered and high end. It was a small investment relative to the brand champions that started to come out of creating something that they were proud to wear and was comfortable and something that they were, “Yeah, of course I’d wear this all day long.” So that was really an investment that I knew we would receive dividends from, but not the way I had ever… Way beyond my expectations.

Carol:
Very cool.

J:
So your splurge actually made you money?

Erik:
Yes. Yeah, it did.

J:
Love it. Awesome. Erik, this is great. So that was the more part of the four more. Can you tell our listeners where they can connect with you, where they can learn about On Air Brands, PodMAX, other events, if they have any questions where they can learn more? Just anything you want to tell us.

Erik:
Yeah, absolutely. So we always have events happening as we mentioned earlier, hopefully monthly. So you could go to podmax.co. So podmax.co will get you in the door, register. You could jump into any of our events and see what the next big things happening, that are coming up. And then On Air Brands, podcast production, creation, you can go to that website as well. That’s onairbrands.com and those are really the best places to reach out. I’m all over social. So you could find Erik Cabral on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, all that stuff.

J:
Awesome. Erik, this was amazing. And I always love chatting with you. Nice to actually get you on the show. I know it’s been a long time coming, but thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing such amazing tips. And I’d love to have you back in a year or two and hear about what’s next.

Erik:
Absolutely. Thanks Carol.

Carol:
Thank you so much-

Erik:
Thanks J.

Carol:
… Erik, so great chatting with you.

Erik:
Happy birthday, brother.

J:
Thank you, sir. Talk to you soon.

Carol:
See you soon.

Erik:
Bye.

Carol:
Oh my goodness. Seriously, J, how awesome was Erik with all his fantastic tips? I love how he identified the fact that he was spending 60 to 70 hours a week in his corporate job. And he was like, “Wait a minute. If I put this much energy into building my own business, building my own brand, that’s what’s going to really change my life.” And he went out there and did it. He talks about the power of putting your ego aside and just consistently showing up, building networks, leveraging those relationships. Just fantastic all the way around.

J:
Yeah, absolutely. And I love the fact that he said so many things just off the cuff without realizing how valuable they were. Just to bring up a couple of my favorite points in this show. Remember, it’s all about being consistent and showing up. It’s all about working your way up to the front of the room. It doesn’t come from day one. It takes work and you don’t have to be a genius. You don’t have to come up with all this stuff on your own. Listen to others, figure out your angle, figure out your focus and just deliver value. It doesn’t have to be unique. It’s really simple stuff, but it is so powerful when it comes to just becoming a successful entrepreneur. So yeah, amazing episode and just absolutely love talking to Erik. Okay. Are we done here? We’re ready to let everybody get back to their weeks?

Carol:
Let’s wrap it up and continue celebrating your birthday.

J:
Yes, everybody have an amazing rest of your week. Stay happy, stay healthy. And we will talk to you next week. She’s Carol, I’m J.

Carol:
Now start working your way up to the front of that room today.

J:
Good one, I like it.

Carol:
That didn’t go really well, but-

J:
No, I like it.

Carol:
… I had to get that in there.

J:
I like it. I like it. Thanks everybody.

Carol:
Have an awesome day, everyone.

J:
See you.

Carol:
Thank you.