The Disaster Loans That Could Save Your Business—and Why You Should Apply Now

J:
Welcome to the BiggerPockets Business Podcast, show number 50.

Mike:
That’s why it’s so critical and important to be upfront with your team letting them know like, “Hey, guess what? This is what we’ve just done. This is where we are. This is what we’re looking at.” Our number one thing is just to make sure that you have all the information possible so you can make your best decision possible.

J:
Welcome to a real-world MBA from the school of hard knocks where entrepreneurs reveal what it really takes to make it. Whether you’re already in business or you’re on your way there, this show is for you. This is BiggerPockets business.

J:
How are you doing everybody? I am J Scott. I am your co-host for the BiggerPockets business podcast here again this week with my lovely co-host, Carol Scott. How’s it going, Carol?

Carol:
Doing great. A little bit overwhelmed trying to balance homeschooling the kiddos while we’re doing our shows and attempting to do what we can with our businesses. So frankly, I’m going to be on and off of this recording as I help them out. But got to be honest, you know me. I’m thrilled that I get to spend so much time with them. So good times and we’re just all making it through together.

J:
Well, you do what you need to do because I can take care of this interview myself if I need to. But we have a really good interview today. We have a great interview today. We’re talking to a woman named, Angela Venti from a CPA firm in New Jersey called Alloy Silverstein. And Angela is going to be walking all of us business owners, and when I say business owner, it doesn’t matter if you have a small business, a big business, if you’re a sole proprietor, if you’re an investor. Maybe you’re an investor out there that’s just running your small investment company or your big investment company or maybe you’re even a contractor and you’re paid 1099.

J:
This episode is for all of you and all of us because Angela is an expert on the stimulus package that was passed a couple weeks ago and she’s an expert on all the programs, loan programs, grant programs payroll, holiday programs that are out there that will help us as business owners whether we have employees or not, help us get the money we need to keep our businesses moving through these tumultuous economic times. So if you’re out there trying to figure out how you can keep your employees paid, how you can keep your rent paid, how you can pay your expenses, just how to stay afloat in these difficult times, this is the episode for you because Angela tells us all about the programs now available through the government to help you do that.

J:
And the good news is as Angela points out several times, they make it so easy right now the government’s working really, really, really hard to help keep all of us afloat. So that is the good news. And make sure you stick around to the end of this interview because after we talk to Angela, we talked to one of her clients, his name is Mike Regina. His company is Big Sky Enterprises. It’s a construction management firm in New Jersey. And Mike walks us through. He’s basically a case study for us. He walks us through how his business has been impacted by the current economic situation and how he is navigating his way through the various economic loan and stimulus programs, and hopefully keeping his business afloat over the next few months until we get out the other side.

J:
So check out our show notes for more information about all the things we talked about in this episode. If you need links to some of the programs we’re talking about, links for Angela and her company and links for Mike and his company. All the stuff is in our show notes at biggerpockets.com/bizshow50. Again that’s biggerpockets.com/bizshow50. Now, before we jump into today’s episode, let’s hear a quick word from our sponsor.

J:
Is there anything more frustrating than knowing you have to call a business to get answers to your question but also knowing that you’ll probably spend more time on hold than you will actually getting your issue resolved? Your customers simply don’t have patience for that anymore, which is why Podium is the perfect messaging tool for your business. Podium allows customers to text your business and brings all communication into one streamline inbox. Facebook messages, payment requests, feedback surveys, online reviews, Podium pulls them all together in one place.

J:
Staying in close touch with your customers will not only help keep them happy, but it will help you retain them. Plus Podium shared inbox allows your whole team to stay on the same page when it comes to your customers. Look, 90% of customers prefer to text a business but only half of businesses have that capability. Does yours? Join the 45,000 businesses that rely on Podium to communicate with their customers today. Go to podium.com/bpb like BiggerPockets Business to get started and save 10% off your monthly subscription. Texting isn’t just the better way to get more reviews, it’s the better way to do business. Again, that’s 10% off using podium.com/bpb.

J:
Are you familiar with Tresta? You should be. Tresta is an app for iPhone and Android that lets you do business calling and texting from anywhere with no hardware, just the smart phone you’re already using. Tresta allows you to add local and toll free numbers with tons of call management features that empower you to communicate smarter and more efficiently. This is the best business phone app on the market whether you’re real estate investor, small business owner or entrepreneur.

J:
Growing your business is all about networking and communication so it’s important that you’re always available. If you’ve been carrying around a second smartphone, if you’re chained to your desk or worse, if you’re giving out your personal number to anyone and everyone who you do business with, then you should give Tresta a try.

J:
Tresta is easy to configure so you can set everything up yourself all online. Tresta has got all the features you need to give a professional impression for your business like call recording, auto attendance, user groups and more. All included. There’s no contract and you don’t need any special equipment. Just the smartphone you’re already using. The best part is, it’s just $15 per user per month. Plus Tresta is offering a 30-day free trial so you can see if it’s right for you. This is such a money saver. We know you’re going to love it. Start your free trial now at tresta.com/biggerpockets. That’s T-R-E-S-T-A .com/biggerpockets. All one word, tresta.com/biggerpockets.

J:
Thank so much to our awesome sponsor. Now without any further ado, let’s bring on Angela Venti.

Carol:
Angela, welcome to our show and thank you so much for joining us today.

Angela:
Great to be here. Thanks for having me.

J:
Yeah, we really appreciate you being here especially at this particular time when your experience, your knowledge, your expertise, I think is really going to be super beneficial to our listeners. So jumping into that, can you tell us a little bit about who you are, what you’ve done, what your firm does and how you’re helping entrepreneurs and business owners during this time?

Angela:
Yes. My background was banking. I was a business development for banks prior to joining Alloy Silverstein. My managing partner had an idea if someone with a banking background came on board, it might be able to help his clients in a variety of other ways. I go out and I meet with the clients. I do everything I can to help generate more business for them, introduce them to the accountant that would be perfect for them and we go from there. So we have two offices in New Jersey, 54 accountants so we’re considered a large firm in New Jersey and it’s just been a great experience to be able to tie the banking background into the accounting for this crisis that you could never have seen coming.

J:
Yeah. And that’s actually one of the reasons we’re thrilled to have you here because that combined knowledge of the accounting CPA with the banking because a lot of what we’re going to be talking about, people might think of it as an accounting and CPA type issues but a lot of this is going to go to bank relationships and knowing how to navigate banks and lending because that’s going to be a lot of the solutions that we’re looking at throughout this crisis, correct?

Angela:
Absolutely.

J:
Great, great, great. Okay. So a lot of our listeners are small entrepreneurs. They have small businesses. Some of them are solo entrepreneurs meaning they’re their only employee of their business. I know they kind of run the gamut from they have a sole proprietorship up through they’re running S corp or C corp. So I mean kind of runs the gamut. So given this crisis, it sounds like about a week or two ago, the government passed a big stimulus package that’s kind of going to help everybody, all of those people whether you’re a business owner, a contract or anything in between. Can you talk to us a little bit about in general what was passed by the government and what it provides for us as business owners?

Angela:
Yes. They did an amazing job, I think, of not only coming out with the stimulus package to help the individual. I know a lot of people are waiting for that $1,200 or $2,400. It’ll make a huge difference to them and I know that that’s being revised and they’re trying to make it as easy as possible. But on the business side, they’ve just passed a tremendous package and it’s still being worked out, but their goal is to infuse money as quickly as possible back into these businesses until the lights can go back on. They’re doing it in loan format, in grant format. So it’s just kind of trying to figure out which would be best.

Angela:
As you said, there’s a host of different kinds of businesses out there. There are businesses that are not taking in income, but still trying to pay their employees so that they’ll be there when they get back because that’s another grave concern when the lights come back on, will there be anybody there. So all these different programs to help them make it through. And a lot of them can be used simultaneously. Again, not for the same exact thing, but you can apply for more than one thing.

Angela:
So we do want to get that out there because there’s a lot of untruths or mistruths out there whether they’re taxable events, whether I can apply for both. I don’t qualify for any. So we want to make sure that everyone does understand what they can qualify for.

J:
Excellent. And just to kind of put a pin in this for our listeners, we’re recording this on Friday, April the 3rd at around 3:00 p.m., which is interesting. It’s important that we need to note this. It’s weird that we need to note this. But the fact is, things are still changing. Things have been changing over the last few days and it’s likely by the time this airs next week, things will have changed some more. So can you tell us actually about that. So over the past week, what has your firm been focused on. What have you been doing? How have you been staying up-to-date on all these things that keep changing day to day?

Angela:
I would never have predicted this. The loan has changed already. It has gone from 4% for 10 years to 2% for 2 years. So now we’re at half a percent for two years. As of 6:00 last night, were at 1% for 2 years on the Paycheck Protection Program loan. But literally it changes by the second. The SBA put out different guidelines. Yesterday we have the SBA on the treasury website with one piece of information that doesn’t match. They link right below it, as far as the treasury. So to say this situation is fluid is the understatement of the year.

Angela:
Supposedly the Paycheck Protection Program became active today. Anyone who’s tried to apply today knows that actually not true. So we are trying to keep up and to keep the people informed as they’re going. If your EDA has a program and that opened, that’s probably going to close very quickly. They’re limited in funds. So it’s very important to be very proactive to have your documents ready so when the actual site does open and the queue does open, that you can get in there. Because again, it is going to be first come first serve when the money runs out. Until they do something else, that’ll be the end of it.

J:
Okay. So I guess that’s important that we really understand what the various loan products are and you mentioned it’s not just loans, it’s also grants and maybe other things. It’s important that we understand what all of these are, the differences between them, which one might be right and best. Maybe there are multiple that are right, but there’s probably one that’s best for our company. Maybe there’s multiple that we can use at the same time, but it’s important for us to kind of figure that out early so that we can be prepared because like you said this is first-come, first-serve which I just learned a couple days ago which means that if you wait more than a couple days or weeks, who knows the money may have run out.

Angela:
That’s right.

J:
Can you give us, let’s start with a brief overview of what are the different programs that are available that we even need to know about. You mentioned some acronyms like PPP and EDA can you just kind of give us at a highest level of what those programs are that are available.

Angela:
Yes. The two most important. I would say most businesses are asking about right now are the Economic Injury Disaster Loan and the Paycheck Protection Program Loan. Those are the two that if I would say if you can hear my voice, apply for them. And why do I say that? Because it is going to be first come first serve. The economic injury disaster loan, the website is open. There is a website that you can go right on and you can start that process. To get the grant that is available, a lot of talk about the $10,000 grant. You have to do the entire application to get the grant. As you go through the loan process, it’ll come to the end and it’ll ask you, would you like to have a $10,000 advance?

Angela:
That is the grant portion of the Economic Injury Disaster Loan. So in this loan you do not apply for an amount. The SBA is going to determine the loan amount. So when it asks you for the $10,000 advance, please hit yes. Once you get an approval for that, they say and again, I say this as of today that you’ll receive those funds within three days. My guess is they’re going to get slammed with application so I can only say a little bit of patience might be warranted.

Angela:
I know people have applied five days ago and still have not heard anything back as far as an approval. They will then send an approval above and beyond the 10,000. So if you were approved for 50,000, they’ll send out that notice the 10 will be part of that. It’s just forgiven and then there’s a $40,000 balance. 25,000 of that, they say they will have in your account in five days and then the remainder after that. So those are the parameters as of today.

Angela:
That loan is set up to be a very long loan. It is for 30 years. If you are a for-profit business, it’s 3.75%. If you are a non-profit, it’s 2.75%. It is businesses under 500 employees. So again, those guidelines are super important to know but a super low interest for a very long-term and that $10,000 can be something that is infused into your account quickly.

J:
Okay. So just to recap and this is great. So just to recap. There’s the EIDL, Economic Injury Disaster Loan?

Angela:
Correct.

J:
Okay. I wrote down the acronym. I just want to make sure I had that correct. So the Economic Injury Disaster Loan, the EIDL, you apply for it. It’s a loan. So you do have to pay it back. You apply and give information and the SBA decides how much they’re going to loan you based on the information you give. At the end of the process, they say do you want $10,000 offered immediately within a couple days. If you say yes to that, they should get you that $10,000 just kind of get you started within a few days. Then they’ll give you an approval above the $10,000. They decide how much that is. You should get 25K of that next amount within five days and then you’ll get the remainder of whatever they approve you for at some point after that.

Angela:
Correct.

J:
Okay. And that’s a 30-year loan that if you’re a for-profit, you pay back at 3.75%. So pretty much the same as a mortgage these days. If you’re a non-profit, 2.75% and this is for businesses that are under 5000 employees.

Angela:
Correct.

J:
Okay. So that’s the EIDL. And you had mentioned a… I think we talked about PPP or Paycheck Protection?

Angela:
Yeah.

J:
Is that the other one?

Angela:
I want to go two interesting things to mention about the EIDL that are different if you’ve ever applied for an SBA loan. They’re not looking for any collateral for any amount under $25,000. They’re not looking for a personal guarantee for anything under $200,000. That’s huge. So let’s say by some unfortunate circumstance, when you try to go back, you can. Anything under $200,000, they can’t take the home. So that’s really important. When you say personal guarantee to somebody, you can see them back up and they’re like, “Oh, I don’t want to lose my home on top of everything else.” So that is a huge, huge waiver in something worth mentioning that in those loans amounts, they are not asking you to a personal guarantee.

J:
That’s fantastic.

Angela:
So they’re looking for in the approval process because I heard someone say, “Well, what if I showed a loss on my 2018 tax return?” Understood. What they’re looking for when they approved for above the 10,000 is your ability to repay. So that is what they’re using as the guideline for the loan approval above and beyond those amounts. So they’re looking for what is their rebound likelihood and the ability to pay. So don’t be thinking that if the 2018 showed a loss that there’s no way you’re going to get this loan. That’s not what they’re looking at.

J:
Great. And one more question because I know this is probably going to come up in the next one. Are there any specific uses for this money? Do you have to say I’m going to use this money to retain employees or I’m going to use it to buy equipment, or is this basically a loan that can be used for whatever the business owner deems is the need in the business at the time?

Angela:
So that’s a very good question because when I do cover the paycheck, if you are going to go for both is very important that you not use this for payroll. I can’t stress that enough because when we do get to the other side, the only way for that loan to be forgiven is to prove that you didn’t double-dip so that you didn’t pay the payroll out of this funds.

Angela:
Very important too but I keep using restaurant as an example. But if a restaurant had to put in a takeout window and they incurred an expense, they had to hire a marketing team to reach people in a different way. They had any additional expense. Your mortgage payment can be paid out of that loan because it cannot come from the paycheck protection loan. The mortgage interest loan can come from that, but not the actual mortgage itself. So there are very definite lines that you want to follow and really be aware of what’s earmarked for what because you will lose the forgiveness side.

Angela:
So it does not say what you have to pay with this, especially the grant there is no stipulation on what you’re going to use it for. So super important. They’re hoping that you’ll use it to keep people employed, to keep the lights on, to do what you have to do benefits wise. But if you’re going to go to the paycheck route as well, it’s super important not to use that for payroll.

J:
Got it. We’ve used the terms grant and loan. I’ve used them interchangeably. I’m guessing you don’t use them interchangeably. Is the 10K, that’s a grant versus the rest of it which is a loan?

Angela:
Correct.

J:
Does that mean that the 10K doesn’t need to be repaid or is repaid in a different way?

Angela:
Does not have to be repaid. The exception would be if you don’t follow the rules and you do pay payroll out of that, when you do the Paychecks Protection Program, you are going to have to roll that $10,000 into that new loan because payroll came out of it. So the only way not to lose it at the end or to be accused of doing double dipping for the lack of a better word, you need to make sure that if you want that 10,000 to stay as a grant, don’t pay payroll out of it if you’re in the queue to get that other loan.

J:
Okay. So great. So that’s the EIDL and basically use that money for anything you want as a business owner unless you plan to also apply for the next thing that we’re going to talk about which sounds like the Paycheck Protection. If you plan to apply for that, then you have to be really careful what you use the money for.

Angela:
That’s right. And so why this is so important is because the attractiveness of this loan is you get to keep your employees on staff and at the end of the period, hopefully it will be eight weeks and we’re all out of this not in the too distant future. But the attractiveness of this is the forgiveness. So they are asking you and requiring of you that will go a simple amount. So you apply, you get approved for $100,000. 75% of that has to be used for payroll. That is number one on the forgiveness scale. So they’re anticipating that 25% will go towards interest. Not mortgage payment. So I just want to be super clear. It’s not mortgage payment. It’s the interest, rent, and utilities.

Angela:
So payroll being number one of that. When they have you do the equation of your loan amount. It is based on your payroll. They have clarified it. They first said the last 12 months which we’d be rolling backwards from now 12 months ago and they did come out as of last night that the 12 months is January 1st of 2019 to December 31st 2019. That amount divided by 12 with the $100,000 guideline stipulations, they will not cover anybody’s salary above $100,000. So you figure in your tips, your wages, your benefits, that all goes into that and then they have you add 25%. So working backwards out of your loan amount, 75% of that should be applied to payroll and the 25% you added is to cover your mortgage interest, your rent, your utilities.

J:
Got it. Okay so let me try and summarize this one. So this is the Paycheck Protection Program. This is a loan that may or may not be forgiven. We can talk about that in a moment. But the loan amount is up to 2.5 times your average monthly payroll for 2019. So let’s say you had $120,000 in payroll through all of 2019, that’s $10,000 per month on average. You would multiply that by two and a half so your maximum loan amount is 25,000 in that case.

Angela:
That’s fluid as well. So the SBA saying 2.5, the treasury says add 25%. Those are two very different numbers.

J:
Got it.

Angela:
If you do the math. If you calculated it at the 2.5, you may have to go back. I can tell you up until they came out with that yesterday, it was always plus 25%. So I’m still leaning on it’s going to be plus 25% because that times it by 2.5, gives you a completely different loan amount. So I would err towards the side of the 25%. But if people went on they saw that website and they did their application this morning at the 2.5, they’re going to have to correct that before it goes up.

J:
Got it. Okay. So either 2.5 or what plus 25%?

Angela:
So it’s your total payroll expenses and by that, I mean tips, payroll. So I’m trying to lump it all together, health benefits, divided by 12, plus 25%.

J:
Got it.

Angela:
You’re coming out your monthly. And so they’re trying to help people calculate that. There’s a different calculation for seasonal or for people who were only open in January in February, those are going to be your months to calculate. You’re not excluded if you’ve only been open January and February. You just are going to use a different calculation.

J:
Got it. Okay. And that has a maximum of $100,000 per employee and 75% of that loan amount must be used towards payroll which I assume is payroll taxes as well?

Angela:
Yes. By anything to do with payroll.

J:
Anything to do with payroll. So insurance or health insurance or other benefits. Got it. 25% of that can be used towards mortgage interests not full mortgage payments, just the interest part of the mortgage payment, rent, utilities. And that must be used over the next eight weeks after you receive the loan?

Angela:
That’s right. They’re counting the eight weeks after that. So that loan comes as of yesterday at 6:00 with a 1% interest rate for any amount that’s not forgiven and the term period is two years. So let’s say at the end of the day some part got forgiven, some part didn’t. There’s no payment due for the first six months. On the Paychecks Protection, the interest will accrue but there’s no payment due for six months and then at the end of that period, hopefully you’ll be doing the forgiveness application. It has to be an application. It is not a given. And at the end of that, you’ll have your amount and that amount would be the 1% and for the two-year period.

Angela:
So that’s how they’re calculating that currently. And to go back, I did not say on the Economic Injury Disaster Loan, there’s no payment due on that for anything above that $10,000 for a year. So that’s important to mention as well.

J:
Awesome. And so I know we talked before we started recording and we were talking about the forgiveness portion of the PPP, the Paycheck Protection Program and you mentioned that you’ve had a bunch of clients that kind of come in with the attitude, “Great, I get my two and a half times,” or whatever it is of, “I get my loan amount. I’m going to use it for payroll. I’m going to use it for mortgage interest, rent, and utilities, and I expect that at the end of the day everything is going to be forgiven. I’m not going to have to repay everything.” But you had a disclaimer kind of a warning for entrepreneurs. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Angela:
Absolutely. So in my lending background, so my first thing was to call the SBA, find out what’s really going to happen. They anticipated that the website would actually not be up and running today. Just the traffic would be crazy and that they hadn’t kind of worked out the nitty-gritty on the loan and that’s all true. That all happened. The lenders have a tremendous amount of exposure here. So as a SBA approved lender, you are the one that’s taking this application for this loan with nothing but payroll history, the person saying that they were impacted and a driver’s license.

Angela:
So if you’ve ever done a loan before, it is crazy to lend somebody money with that being the stipulation on whether you’re going to get it or not. So the lender fronts the money. The SBA is not putting out anything at this point. They front the money. The money goes out. The company pays everything. They apply for the forgiveness. The SBA could take a look at it and go, “Nope, they didn’t do it the right way. It’s not forgiven.” The lender will not be made whole because in this formula, the SBA is supposed to reimburse the lender.

Angela:
So it’s supposed to go, the lender fronts the money, it all goes out. The person applies for forgiveness. The lender makes the client whole and 90 days later, the SBA makes the lender whole. So you can imagine the risk of exposure on a loan being done this fast with this little documentation, the risk. So if your lender says no, please don’t be mad at your lender. It is a high risk situation. You are going to see that some lenders even though they’re approved SBA agents, they’re not going to do this loan. I talked to a few banks, the order that they’re going to do it, and I’ve heard this from multiple people, they will do their borrowers first, their deposit customers second, and possibly if there’s anyone left after that, they’ll look at that.

Angela:
So they are trying to stick with people they know, know your customer. That’s a huge thing and why that’s such a risk is because they are out this money. If the SBA says no, no, no, and they have to keep applying, the lender has to keep applying to try to get that money back, they’re out that money. That’s a 1% loan and not a margin that a lender would normally look to take on [inaudible 00:29:13]. They’re going up to $10 million so imagine being out that money just because the SBA go, “No, they didn’t qualify. They didn’t pay it right.”

J:
Wow. So just a personal little anecdote and this kind of explains stuff. I’ve had a very long-standing banking relationship with Wells Fargo, a very large bank. It turns out, I found out that they were the third largest SBA lender in the country and I have a very good relationship. I have 17 business accounts and several personal accounts with them and I know my banker very well. She and I had been in communication over the past few days and today, I finally got a call from her and she said, “The way this is going to work with Wells Fargo is I’m going to give you a website to go to and you along with 50 million other people or however many other people decide to do it are going to apply on this website and then whatever happens, happens. And I’m not going to be able to help you through the process. I can’t give you any priority over anybody else.”

J:
I went to the Wells Fargo website and basically what it said is it laid out some of the rules that you and I have been discussing here. But multiple times throughout the website it basically said, “By the way, if you’re not happy with this, go find another SBA lender. And I thought it was interesting. Normally, banks are very… They try and keep you, and they want to make loans and they’re like, “No, stay with, us stay with us. Work with us. Don’t go somewhere else.” And this was very much the opposite. It was, “If you’re not happy with what we’re saying, feel free to go find another SBA lender,” and I thought that was a little weird. But this explains that perfectly.

J:
Basically, banks don’t necessarily want to make these loans. They’re going to do it because they have customers that they want to make happy it sounds like. They want to obviously keep their standing with the SBA, but they would be just as happy if I went and found somebody else.

Angela:
Very high risk. From a lender perspective and as I’m describing this, I can hear… Anybody has done alone. You know what the process is like and how hard it is to get money. So for somebody go, “Okay, we need the front and back of your driver’s license, your payroll amount plus 25%. You’re good to go.” What? So as a lender, I 100% understand how risky this is and why somebody would be hesitant. The system is going to crash. We were never designed to have this kind of volume. I think you can see that in unemployment. You can see it in these loans. They’re just not set up for this. If they are not, it is not because it’s not a customer service issue. I truly say that. Somebody was like, “Well, my bank said they submitted it.” They didn’t. They took it, they have it and they will submit it, but there’s just nowhere for it to go. The rules haven’t been laid out for someone to submit it.

J:
That’s a great point. And again, this is Friday, April 3rd around 3:00. By the time this airs on Tuesday, that may not be the case, but I’ve heard that from a couple banks that they’re taking applications, but they’re basically holding them and I talked to you a couple business owners who are telling me, “Yeah, my bank has already submitted it.” And they’re not communicating well with their bank or their bank isn’t communicating with them because for the most part or not for the most part completely, none of these banks have actually submitted for these PPP loans.

J:
Now, the EIDL loans, you said that’s in process. If you submit an application for an Economic Injury Disaster Loan, the EIDL loan, that is actually being funded and you can submit an application and you can potentially get your money within the next few days, correct?

Angela:
Yes. And I would say I knew your audiences is everywhere. I would spend some time looking into your EDA. So I’m in New Jersey. That’s the NJEDA. Their loans are open today. I know those funds will be in and out very quickly. I’ll give you an example here. That website was supposed to be opened for a week. It crashed shortly after it opened this morning. People are still trying to… It will not make it a week. That’s the other thing on these loans. The program period on the EIDL loan is January 31st to December 31st. The sooner, the better.

Angela:
The one on the Paycheck Protection Program is February 15th to June 30th. So obviously could not have been… That’s the window that they’re looking at is eight weeks. I would say in that case please have your payroll information, reach out to your accountant, your payroll company. Get all your ducks in a row. Have all your information so when the queue actually does open and you you find a lender who is going to facilitate that, you’re ready to go.

Angela:
As a side note of caution, wherever there’s something good, it seems like the bad people find out a way to take advantage of it. Do not pay anyone for this. No one can make your loan go through faster. If someone says, “For 3,500, we’ll make sure that they’re not allowed to charge for this.” The lender is not allowed to charge. If an agent does it, they’re not allowed to charge. This is not something the borrower needs to pay for. So please don’t let anyone take advantage of a bad enough situation by adding something like that.

J:
Awesome. Thank you for that. And just to reiterate your earlier point. This is first-come, first-served. There’s been money allocated by the stimulus bill from a week and a half, two weeks ago. So we don’t know if this money is going to run out after a day, a week, a month, five months. So if you’re interested and need this help, make sure you get in as quickly as possible. Can you talk to us a little bit about who is eligible. So we’ve talked about small businesses. And so I think that clearly applies to anybody that has an LLC or an S corp or a C corp that has employees. But how about sole proprietors, how about contractors, somebody that might get paid as a 1099, somebody that has a small business but no employees. Do these programs apply to those people as well?

Angela:
Great question. So as of last night clarification came out. Can I count my 1099s as part of the payroll? No. They are able to apply themselves. So please keep in mind as of today it was supposed to be businesses that are not 1099s. They were supposed to apply today and next Friday we’re supposed to be the window for independent contractors to apply. Obviously, we found out today that those windows are subject to change. But I will give you eligibility on both to just go… So clearly I can say. The EIDL, the economic disaster loan, the eligibility is I have 500 or fewer employees. I am a sole proprietor, independent contractor, or self-employed individual and I have been in business since January 31st, 2020.

Angela:
For the Paycheck Protection Program, I have 500 or fewer employees. I am a sole proprietor, independent contractor or self-employed. I am a small business that meets the SBA, small business industry standards. I operate an accommodation or food service with 500 or fewer employees per location. That’s important if you’re a franchisee. I’m a business assigned and a franchise operator code by the SBA business that receives assistance under the Small Business Investment Act and I’ve been in business since February 15th, 2020 and pay taxes on my employees or independent contractors.

J:
Got it.

Angela:
So those are the two guidelines. And as a side note, my SBA contact, if you don’t already know, if you already had an SBA loan, those payments are waived for the next six months. Payments and interest are waived in grant format. What does that mean? They’re not modifying the loan, they’re not tacking it on to the bank. They are literally forgiving six months of principal and interest if you are already in an SBA loan.

Angela:
So they should have let you know that if they didn’t. I promise it’s true. I already talked to SBA customers who did get some kind of notification but they are waiving the six months. So if you were already in a program, you want to know that that grace… And it’s literally a gift. It is not a modification or an extension of any kind.

J:
That’s great. Okay. So just to reiterate because I know a lot of our listeners are small business owners to the extent that they don’t have any employees. A lot of them manage their sole proprietor, they’re an investor, a real estate investor. So they do have income. Even if you’re just a sole proprietor, even if you’re the only person in your business as long as you are paying yourself a payroll and either did it in 2019 or did it before February 15th, I think you said of this year, you are eligible for the EIDL in the PPP if you need it.

J:
So please don’t think that because you don’t have employees or because you don’t have an LLC or an S corp or a C Corp, don’t think that you are not eligible. You are. This is basically for everybody. And if you’re a contractor, you’re eligible as a contractor. Don’t expect that the companies that have been paying you as a 1099 are going to continue paying you and get covered for you. They’re not covered under your payroll. You can go apply for yourself under these programs as a 1099, as a contractor.

Angela:
And that was very vague until last night. So again, we’re April 3rd. I can’t say what it’s going to look like on Tuesday. I can tell you on Friday, they did clarify last night that if you were a 1099, the next window that opens so they were saying the companies go first. The other companies that are not 1099, should apply today. Again, that’s a moving target. And a week later, they were going to be able to apply. So I would say watching the treasury website, that’s a great way to see the updates. They are coming at night which is you make a PowerPoint or a slide presentation. You’re updating it at 6:00 at night for the following morning. That’s how much this is changing. It’s so fluid and so it’s a moving target. We’re doing the best we can. It’s not written in stone yet. And I know they’re trying to accommodate the lender. This is so changing because they’re trying to make the bank more comfortable with what they’re asking them to do.

J:
Got it. And so can businesses apply for both of these loans? You implied earlier that they could. So are there any limitations on applying for both the EIDL and the PPP?

Angela:
I can’t say enough. Please apply for both. Please apply for both. Please apply. As long as you are earmarking those funds. As a banker, so I’ll be on that side for a second, I would say if you are getting other funds coming in right now and hopefully you are, commingling those funds could cost you a headache down the road. So if you want to separate them so you can later say with 100% proof, I put my loan funds for the Paycheck Protection in this account. I paid my payroll, mortgage interest, utilities and rent, solely out of that account for that period of time. It’s only eight weeks. So it would be great if you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that’s where those funds went.

Angela:
You get the Economic Injury grant, throw it into your regular… You are allowed to pay your other things out of that. Throw that into your your regular account and pay those things that you had looming over you and you weren’t sure how to pay. If you had to make a business modification, I can tell you I’ve had to get equipment to work from home. We had to get things to make this business keep running. Those things should all be paid out of that other money. The burden of proof is 100% going to be on the borrower. So please do whatever you can to document that you’re paying what you need to pay out of those accounts.

J:
Great. And so what about for those people out there that might have multiple businesses? So are business owners allowed to apply for either or both of these loans or grants through multiple businesses or are they stuck with just picking one business?

Angela:
I would tell you, it is very much dependent. They’re going to track it by EIN or social. You cannot apply for more than one of the paycheck. It will come out that the same tax ID number, EIN number, whatever you’re using, very, very important that you do not do that more than once. The grant, if you’re entities or separate entities, you can apply separately. So they’re different companies. As long as your tax ID numbers are not going to come back to be the same, then you have multiple businesses. That’s multiple businesses.

Angela:
It’s also super important to tell everyone, this came from the SBA lender that I know. When you do your application, it must match the last tax return you filed. Most likely, that’s going to be 2018 because we all got an extension for ’19. If the very first form they’re pulling is your tax return. If your application does not match your tax return, you’re out. So they will put you back in a queue that says your application was rejected because… And that’s not a holdup you want to have right now. It is super important that your application match what your last tax return that they have says. If it didn’t, it would behoove you to file on ’19 so that they are comparing current… If you did something different in ’19 than ’18, you do not want to apply with bad information.

J:
Got it. Okay. Just to clarify, because I’m a little bit confused and I know this has been confusing for other people. So let’s say I have two businesses. I’m the owner of both businesses. I have obviously one social security number. The two businesses have separate EIN numbers, tax ID numbers. So as the same owner with the same obviously social security number of two businesses with two different EIN numbers, am I allowed to apply for EIDL and PPP for both or just one?

Angela:
They’re considered separate entities. You just happen to own both.

J:
Okay, yes.

Angela:
So the entities are really applying. You personally are not. In that case your business is applying. So quick question. Again, I would ask your CPA, our CPAs are getting all of these questions. But they are tracing it back to… Now, if you were a DBA and it’s all going back to your social, then it’s one social. So I would caution against doing that. But if it’s different tax ID numbers and then their guidelines. That’s what they’re tracking back to. As a social security number in that case, you just happen to be the owner of both. So that’s not how you’re applying. You’re applying with the business ID.

J:
Got it. Okay, great. And I have a few friends and I know as of few days ago, this was undefined so I’m wondering if this has been clarified. I have a few friends that own venture backed, so VC backed companies and there was some confusion, and I don’t know if it had been defined if those companies would be allowed to take advantage of these programs. Do we have any information yet about that?

Angela:
I haven’t seen that at all. That’s a great question and I’m sure down the road somebody will come out with a new clarification. But I have not seen anything on venture capitals at all.

J:
Okay. And so I’ve also heard that for business owners and I don’t know the specifics, but I also heard that there could be a payroll tax holiday. Do we know anything about that?

Angela:
Yes. You want to find out and this is another reason to talk to your accountant. My understanding was if you are taking advantage of that program, it’s going to be in conflict with the Paychecks Protection Program. So before you take the credit and what they were doing was taking your tax. You would pay half at the end of December 2020, the other half December 2021. So that’s great. If you have $15,000, you could be really doing 75 and 75. They consider it double dipping. As of two days ago, they said you can’t take advantage of both. So please ask a tax advisor. If you were planning on going that route, it would probably be more financially sound for you to take the loan that could be completely forgiven.

J:
Got it. Okay. But if for some reason you’re not taking the PPP loan, there is a potential benefit to employers where you can take and you can not pay FICA taxes and payroll taxes for the rest of, I believe 2020 and then you owe 50% of that in 2021 and 50% of that amount in 2022. So basically, they’re deferring payroll taxes to kind of give you a tax break or a tax holiday for this year?

Angela:
Correct. So you want to be sure that it’s not in conflict. But again then, perhaps you do the SBA loan and a credit like that if that works out better. What if you’re not paying employees right now? So you definitely want to get some guidance on which one. And you can apply and not use it, but if you need to get in the queue and then figure it out, I would say get in the queue and figure it out and then go backwards from there. Then look at, “Wait. Can I bring my staff back on. Am I able to keep my FTEs the same?”

Angela:
If you have a change of employee account, they’re telling you you have to bring it back up in order to take that payroll protection loan. So what if you fired somebody? Hire somebody else. I’m not saying keep bad employees, but you want to keep that count the same. That’s how they’re going to measure whether you follow the guidelines or not.

J:
Got it. And that makes sense. So basically if you’re asking for a certain amount of money under the PPP, that’s your average monthly payroll. That pays a certain number of people. They want to find that you’re still paying at least that number of people that you were paying when that calculation was done?

Angela:
So one of the questions I keep getting asked is does that count for full-time employees and part-time employees? Because we hear FTE a lot. If you’re using the 2019 calculation and it had full-time employees and part-time employees, you just want to have that same count for this eight-week period. So basically, if you really want to let somebody go, wait four months then fire them. So we want to make sure that your forgiveness is not being impacted by the employee count, which is part of that forgiveness.

J:
Awesome. That’s great. Are there any programs that we haven’t talked about here? Are those kind of the two big ones plus the [inaudible 00:47:49] holiday, the payroll tax holiday. Are those the big ones? Are there any others that we should be talking about?

Angela:
The only other ones that we’re talking about in my area are the EDAs. So I would recommend… I was on a Florida conversation. I’ve been getting on every single webinar I can get on and they have different programs than New Jersey has. So I can tell you state to state, the EDA is not only coming out with programs, they are coming out with programs that do not conflict with anything the government is offering. So you have your state funded ones and your government fund. And they’re being very careful to not duplicate or overstep or being conflict. So you can take the state money and not worry about the federal money.

Angela:
The only thing I can warn you about is don’t pay payroll out of those funds if you’re going to use the Paycheck Protection one. I’m super concerned about the forgiveness and people being able to take advantage of that. So you just want to make sure you know the rules so when it comes time to apply for that forgiveness, you get it.

J:
Awesome. And what does EDA stand for?

Angela:
Economic Development Authority. [crosstalk 00:48:59]

J:
I’m sorry. I wasn’t trying to… I’ve heard that term a bunch over the last couple days and I didn’t know. So basically there’s the EIDL and the PPP which are both federal government provided through the SBA programs and then EDA is going to be administered at the state level. So apply for both of the EIDL and the PPP and don’t let either those stop you from applying at the state level for whatever EDA programs are available at the state level as well.

Angela:
Correct. And again, why not? A lot of it is in grant format from the state as well or very, very, very low interest loans for a long term. Again, the whole goal is to make sure you make it. I’ve never seen such relaxed requirements for giving money and that is so you make it. So every program that I have seen is to make sure you’re there when the lights come back on. And I can’t stress that enough. So you can’t have seen more things available with such a little requirement. So please take advantage of it. That’s why I said if you can hear me apply, and then work it out later on, making sure that these are earmarks for this, this is earmarked for this and be there when this comes back.

J:
Awesome. This has been so tremendously helpful. Let me ask an open-ended question. Is there anything that I should be asking that we haven’t asked or that other people have asked you that we should be talking about here?

Angela:
The only everything on a personal note. I will say the stimulus that’s going out for personal. So the $1,200 hours if you qualify, $2,400 for the couples. Here’s what I’ll say. They’re using your 2018 tax return. Let’s say in 2018 you were married and you had a joint account and that’s where your refund check went, and now it’s 2020 and you’re not married. The joint account doesn’t exist anymore. They’re looking at you’re 2018 as where to send the money and how much you’re going to get. So if anything changed from 2018 to 2020 like you got divorced, the joint account is not there anymore, you made significantly less. You went out on maternity leave. Your whole 18 and 19 are drastically different, please reach out to your accountant and file your return.

Angela:
Now, they will use the ’19 if you get it in there quick and not go back to your ’18 that no longer matches your life. So please if you had any kind of life change like that, you don’t want the $2,400 to go into your ex’s account and hope that they give you your 12. So that’s how it’s going to happen because they’re just going to mail one check made out to mr. and mrs. and it’s going to go into somebody’s account hopefully that’s still open and then you have to hope that you get that money.

Angela:
So the way to preempt that, file you’re ’19. They will use that information and that direct deposit to get you your stimulus check. So if you had any big life occurrence, please let them know because there’s no way after the fact to get that information. So please reach out and have your account and file online and let that be what the IRS is using to get you your check.

J:
That is awesome information. And I assume that also applies if for some reason you just switch banks between 2018 between the time you got your direct deposit in 2018 or maybe you didn’t get any money back from the federal government in 2018. Maybe you pay taxes so you never had to supply them with a bank account and routing number and all that. So they don’t have anything on file for you. I assume if that’s the case, will they just mail you a check?

Angela:
First, they said we don’t want to mail you any checks. That’s messy and it’s going to take forever. We’re going to open a website that you can come and update us if you have new routing and banking information. Then they’re like, “We’ll go by the 2018. If it bounces back or you don’t get it, then we’ll mail you one. It could be up to six months.” So it would really behoove you to file a return and get the right information. If they do open a website and we can go update the banking information, great. But you’ve seen what every other website looks like right now.

Angela:
So I can only imagine what that would look like with all the people who are trying to get the stimulus package. So it would be almost faster to file your tax return than it would be to try to get in there and get your banking information fixed. Also last night, it was decided that if you are on Social Security, the first plan said you were going to have to file a return so that they could prove that you qualify and so we could get your banking information.

Angela:
Last night, they changed it that if you’re on Social Security, we’ll put the stimulus wherever your Social Security payment goes. That’s a huge relief for a great portion of the seniors who don’t file a return because they don’t make enough and they didn’t know how they were going to get stimulus because it’s going by a return that they didn’t file. So that was a huge kink and what do those people do now? They’re going to have to file a return just to get the stimulus. And last night it was decided that that was not how they were going to do it. They’ll just put the money wherever their social security goes.

J:
That’s awesome. As horrendous as this crisis is, it sounds like the government, the IRS, the SBA, the banks, everybody is kind of working hard to make it as easy as possible for business owners and individuals to survive the crisis.

Angela:
That’s what I can say. It almost seems like… They’re like, “What is the easiest way for us to get you the money?” That’s what I see and anywhere where it’s not like that, it’s just a little bit of confusion because the rules just are it just came out. So they’re writing the rules backwards. So the program exists and they’re trying to then lay the groundwork for how to filter it. But everything I’ve seen is how can we help? How can we get it to you? What’s the easiest way if you’re off the grid as far as the internet and everything else? How can we still accommodate you and get you this money?

J:
Fantastic. Angela, this has been so tremendously enlightening as business owner myself. You answered all the questions. I’ve been following this and I still had so many questions that I couldn’t find a clear answer to. So for me, I appreciated it. And for those out there that haven’t been following this or learning this for the first time, this was laid out in a way that I think everybody can understand. So thank you so much. I want to take an opportunity. Tell our listeners a little bit more about your firm, where you’re located, where we can find out more about you if anybody wants to contact your firm is looking for a great CPA or anything else you’d like to tell us.

Angela:
Thank you. Our firm is great. I love the partners and the accountants. We are located in Cherry Hill and Hammonton, New Jersey. We have two offices. We are really looking to be a resource. If you feel like you don’t want to ask your account something because you have to pay for it, call me, email me. I promise you, I will get you the answer. My goal is the same as yours. I want to make sure you make it to the other side. My email address is [email protected]. I can’t say enough how much I hope you ask me rather than get in a situation where it ends up costing you something down the road.

J:
Awesome. So that’s alloyssilverstein.com and you are [email protected]. We’ll have that in the show notes. Again, Angela, thank you so much. This has been so tremendously helpful. I know this is a tough time for everybody. But people like you are making it so much easier. So we appreciate it. Thank you again.

Angela:
My pleasure.

J:
Have a great day.

Carol:
Thanks, Angela.

Angela:
Thank you.

Carol:
Wow, that was some absolutely awesome information from Angela, I’ll tell you what. You know that, J. Obviously, you’re the one in our businesses who typically takes care of all the financials, all these little intricacies, all of the back end business components of it and she was able to really break down these programs into something that I could absolutely follow step by step. And I know that’s not an easy task with everything she was talking about, how it’s changing on a daily basis. So I think that was really, really important for each of us as business owners to be able to see which programs are applicable to us and really just be able to get out there and apply, apply, apply.

Carol:
So that said, now we’re going to bring on a client of Angela’s. He’s a great example of one of us. He’s a business owner. He owns a construction company called Big Sky Enterprises. So sit tight and let’s hear how these programs are going to work for him.

Carol:
Mike, thank you so much for joining us today. Welcome to our show.

Mike:
Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.

J:
Hey, thanks, Mike so much. Okay. So we wanted to put a face to kind of this whole dealing with the crisis in a real business that’s well established, that’s trying to figure out how they’re going to get from point A which is today to kind of point B which is past this crisis and kind of keep things as cohesive as possible. So can you tell us a little bit about your company, the background for your company, what you do, how many employees you have and how this whole crisis has impacted you guys personally.

Mike:
Sure. Absolutely. And that’s a great question. For Big Sky enterprises, we’re construction managers and design builders and we manage everything from our clients vision through project completion. So we’ve been established now for 17 years. We experienced a lot of ups and downs. Of course, you know went through the ’08 which was an absolute train wreck. We went for about almost a year and a half of literally having no business. So we’ve been able to experience hard times for sure. So I would say a big transition between the ’08 and this pandemic is like this literally happened out of nowhere and just really put the brakes on really business in general. Not just here but even globally.

Mike:
I mean, you can’t even do business I mean with the exception of those organizations or businesses that are considered essential. So once that did come about and fortunately construction is considered an essential business, so we’re able to at least focus on all of our existing projects right now that are under construction. So we’re moving forward on those with making sure that we’re following really tight safety guidelines because we want to make sure that everyone that’s on our projects are as safe as possible because we want to make sure that they’re able to go home with their families safe and secure.

Mike:
So for us, once this did come on and we started hearing about this stimulus package and whatnot, that really helped us where we went into a mode of, “Hey, guess what? This is going to be stopping. Yeah, we have projects that are going on right now but our projects that we’re going to be starting in two to three months even those that are even in the end of the year because we also do the development, we have no idea what’s going to happen.” Because everything is changing so rapidly.

J:
And so how many employees do you have?

Mike:
Yeah. We have a team of nine here. So it’s been a crazy experience obviously trying to make sure that everyone is in the know on everything. We’re working very hard to lead them through this crisis and to provide as much communication as possible because it’s stressful. It’s a stressful time. I mean you have stress from the pandemic itself. You have stress from the economy is literally crashed. And so I have no idea what my future holds. I mean, at the end of the day there’s only one thing that we can control and that’s today. We can think and plan about tomorrow, but in terms of what we can control is just today. We even just started the PPP application, submitted it, but we don’t really even know everything that’s entailed with that.

J:
Got it. Okay. So you mentioned the PPP program. We just talked to Angela a few minutes ago and she was telling us about the various programs available. So you decided to go with PPP versus the disaster loan program or any other programs. Is there a reason why you decided on that particular program for your business?

Mike:
Yeah, absolutely. I just think it was the best fit for our business and actually just from the standpoint of the amount can be forgiven and it’s really a simple application at the end of the day from the standpoint of what is required is you have 12 months of what you spent on payroll divided by 12 times it by 2.5. Boom. That’s the money that you have coming to you. So from that standpoint, it’s just a very simple calculation.

J:
That’s great. So in theory, you should basically be able to cover two months of your employees full payroll plus have some extra left over for things like rent or mortgage and utilities and other operating expenses.

Mike:
Yeah. We’re allowed to use. We have to make sure that we use 75% of that money towards payroll otherwise we won’t have all that amount forgiven. So as long as we do that, we’re able to have that whole thing basically written off.

J:
Good. And so I assume that if this crisis is kind of we get back to work to some degree within the next couple months, hopefully you guys will keep being able to move forward not have to lay anybody off but I know that’s difficult. I mean it’s a difficult decision. I know a lot of business owners that have had to lay people off so far and I just imagine over the next few months it’s just going to get worse.

Mike:
Yeah. I mean, if you look the past couple weeks, I mean we lost, what, almost 10 million or something to whatever it was.

J:
Yeah. 6.7 but that’s only through last week.

Mike:
Yeah, exactly. And that happened very, very quickly. You really can’t decide or determine really what’s going to happen in the upcoming months. That’s why it’s so critical and important to be upfront with your team letting them know like, “Hey, guess what? This is what we’ve just done. This is where we are. This is what we’re looking at, while you know our goal is X. We don’t know what’s going to happen in a week, in a month, in two months.” Our number one thing is just to make sure that you have all the information possible so you can make your best decisions possible. Our goal is to make sure that on the other side of this, we’re all whole and we’re all doing this together.

J:
That’s awesome. So Mike, we really appreciate you being here. We really appreciate you sharing your story for our listeners. Tell us a little bit about more where they can find out about Big Sky. What state are you in? What’s your website? You mentioned you have a podcast. Tell us about your podcast. Where can our listeners get in touch with you if they have any more questions for you?

Mike:
Sure. I appreciate it. Big Sky Enterprises, we’re located in South Jersey. Our business is regional. So we do in New Jersey-Pennsylvania area. Our website is bigskyllc.com. We’re celebrating 17 years next year, so super excited to do that. We’re still excited about the future. I mean, regardless, we operate in a mindset of hope and growth and we’re going to do whatever we have to do in order to get through and pass this pandemic. Yes, I do have a podcast that I recently started called The Opposite Entrepreneur. You can find that on my website at mikeregina.io. So that’s my personal branding. I have a professional motivational speaking platform where I do relationship marketing strategies. So that’s what’s going on.

J:
Awesome. And for all of our listeners, make sure you check out our show notes. We will have links to Big Sky Enterprises, the website, bigskyll.com. We’ll have links to Mike’s personal website and also links to his podcast. So Mike, thank you so much for opening up with us about your business. We really hope everything works out well over the next few months for you and congratulations on 17 years and hopefully many, many, many more.

Mike:
No, I really appreciate it. And best of luck to you guys too. We are going to get through this.

Carol:
Yes, we are.

Mike:
It’s not an option.

J:
Hopefully when we get back to our more normal podcast programming talking to entrepreneurs about their businesses in a bit more optimistic times, we’d love to have you back on the show. So we look forward to talking to you.

Mike:
I would love it.

J:
We’d look forward to talk to you again soon.

Mike:
I would love it. Thank you.

J:
Mike, thanks so much.

Carol:
Thank you, Mike. See you soon.

J:
I know this wasn’t our typical BiggerPockets Business podcast episode, but let me tell you something. I’m really glad that we had Angela and Mike on this one. There’s been a lot of confusion over the last couple weeks with all the people I’ve been talking to, my business partners, other entrepreneurs, investors, business owners. Just lots of confusion about the programs that are available, which ones we’re supposed to be applying to. I actually thought I had a pretty good handle on what was out there and what I was going to do and after talking to Angela today, I am completely changing my strategy for what loans to apply for in which businesses.

Carol:
Oh, great. Everything today was just so super useful and at the end of the day, we all just want to get through this together. We want to not only survive, but we want to thrive in our businesses. And these are some tools to help make that happen. So baby, let’s wrap this up.

J:
Yeah. And let me just say one more thing before we wrap it up.

Carol:
Okay. Say another thing.

J:
I really like Mike. We need to have him back.

Carol:
Oh, we’re so having him on for a full episode. When the dust settles, we’ve heard those terms enough, but he is going to be such a great guest. I cannot wait to dig into more about his company and the things that he can bring to the table. So stay tuned at a later date. We will have Mike Regina on for a full episode. He’s awesome.

J:
Absolutely.

Carol:
He was awesome.

J:
Okay, everybody. You have a great week. She’s Carol, I’m J.

Carol:
Now survive, thrive, apply, apply, apply for a loan today. Have an awesome week everybody.

J:
See you everybody.