Wholesaling: How to start with no experience, knowledge, credit, or money

Wholesaling: How to start with no experience, knowledge, credit, or money

Wholesaler · Mishawaka, IN · Member since 2013 · 438 posts · 346 votes

There are a lot of people who want to start investing in real estate, but don't know where to start. Wholesaling is by far the best way to get started. It requires no training, knowledge, cash, credit, or experience. Now this is not to say that mistakes(sometimes costly ones) can't be made in wholesaling, but it is by far the simplest and cheapest way to get into real estate investing. You don't need to be an expert, but you need to pay attention, follow through, and execute the steps below. Depending on how much time and effort you can put into wholesaling, you could quite possibly replace your current income/job and become a full-time wholesaler if you choose to. The more experience you gain, the easier it will be for you, the more streamlined the process will become for you, and the more you will make. Read the full post and take action. Good luck to everyone!

Step #1

GET CASH BUYERS

You can do this by advertising, going to local real estate investment meetings/clubs, putting up bandit signs(if they are legal in your area), using craigslist, going to tax sales or sheriff's sales(all cash buyers), building a website and driving traffic to it, or you can pay for access to a list(just google "cash buyer's list).

Make sure that when the cash buyers call you, that you find out what types of properties they want, how many beds/baths, square footage, what area they want properties in, what price range, if they are buying with all cash, how quickly they can close, etc. Get as much info as possible so you are only bringing them the deals they want.

Step #2

GETTING FUNDING IN PLACE BEFORE DOING ANY DEALS

You need to have funding in place in order to wholesale. The funding will have nothing to do with your credit, job time, income, etc. You are looking for "transactional funding." This is very short term funding, typically used for 1 day. You will obviously have to pay interest to use the funding, even though it is only for 1 day. You need to have a property under contract with a seller, and a contract with a cash buyer to purchase the property from you before most transactional funding companies will fund a deal for you. Google "transactional funding" to find some possible funding companies to work with. Call them and find out what their requirements are before making any offers. Some might have a minimum amount they will fund, and they will all charge various rates for their funding. Make sure you know how much you will be paying to use their funding and all the other details.

Step #3

FIND PROPERTIES

Although some people might think it's best to go after properties listed in your local MLS system, for sale by owners, of REO's(bank owned properties), there will be a ton of competition with more experience and deeper pockets going after those same deals. The way to get the best deals with the least amount of competition is by finding vacant properties. You can find them by driving around and finding them(look for a lockbox on the door but no sign in the yard, tall grass, no window coverings, piled up newspapers, etc.)

Once you find the properties, then you have to mail a letter to the owner of that property. Make sure you get some comps on the properties you are interested in right away. Make notes you can find easily(on your computer, smart phone, or a notebook). After you get your comps, run some numbers on the property to see what your maximum purchase price is. NEVER go over that amount, or it will not be a good deal for you. When a vacant property owner calls you after you have pulled comps and run the numbers, you will be prepared to make them an offer over the phone in case they ask for one. When you talk to them, find out all you can about the property. Find out why they are selling and whatnot.

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*****FORMULA FOR MAKING AN OFFER*****

ARV(After repaired value)

X 70%

- Repairs

= Your selling price to a cash buyer

Selling price to cash buyer

- Your Profit( I use 10% of the ARV)

- Closing Costs

- Miscellaneous Fees(Interest, Points, etc.)

= MPP(Maximum Purchase Price- The Most you can pay for a property)

My initial offer is 85% of my MPP. This gives me the possibility to get the property at an even better price than my MPP if the seller accepts.

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Step #4

PUTTING A DEAL UNDER CONTRACT

Once you have gotten a cash buyers list going and have found properties that will match your cash buyer's requirements, then you need to put a property under contract. You do this by having your real estate agent put together a purchase agreement. If you don't have an agent, call around and find one that works with investors. This way when you make a lowball offer on something, they won't be shocked. A purchase agreement is a contract offering to buy a property. When your agent submits an offer for you, in the purchase agreement, you will need to put in the amount of earnest money(deposit) you will be putting up. This can be anything from $10-$100 or more depending on the seller. Being as you are new to this, I would try to put up as little as possible. You can decide how much you put up when your agent completes the purchase agreement for you.

Once your offer is submitted to the seller, they will either say "No", "Yes", or will not reply at all. If they counter offer, then you are not obligated to purchase the property. You can look at their counter offer price, see if it is less than your maximum purchase price and if it is acceptable, and reply via your agent with "Yes", "No", or with your own counter offer price. Sometimes, the numbers just won't work for you or the seller, and a deal will not happen. Other times, it will work. Once an offer or counter is accepted by you and the seller, you will typically have 30 days to close on the property. The closing date will be given to you by the title/closing company doing the closing on your purchase of the property. If you can't sell the property to a cash buyer within the 30 days or by the closing date, you will lose your earnest money deposit, and some credibility. Try to make sure you are putting the right properties under contract, which are properties that your cash buyer's requested. Don't put a property under contract that is a 3 bed/2 bath by a freeway when one of your cash buyers said they want a 3/2 in a quiet neighborhood. You will get stuck with it, not be able to sell it, and lose the deal.

Make sure your real estate agent puts in a 7 day inspection period in the purchase agreement. This will give you 7 days to have a contractor look at the property, tell you what repairs need to be done, and give you an estimate. Make sure your repair costs that are figured into your numbers prior to making any offer are pretty accurate. If the contractor finds something major with the property that just won't work for you, you can back out of the deal with the seller and still get your earnest money back, and lose no credibility.

Once you have had the property checked out by a contractor, or multiple contractors, then if everything is good and the numbers make sense, then you need to start calling your cash buyers ASAP!

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*****IMPORTANT NOTE*****

If you can't get a cash buyer to put a property under contract with you within 1 week after your offer to a seller is accepted, reduce your price. If you can't get a cash buyer to put it under contract with you within 2 weeksafter your offer is accepted by a seller, drop the price again to your cost. You won't make any money, but you won't get stuck with it and won't lose your earnest money.

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Step #5

FLIPPING A PROPERTY TO A CASH BUYER

Now that you know you got a great deal, and got it at the right price, you need to contact your cash buyers with this property. Call them and tell them that you have a property for them which matches their requirements. Tell them that you already have some buyers looking for the same properties, but as a courtesy to them, you wanted to give them first crack at it. Obviously you are lying, but you need to put pressure on them to buy this property right away so you don't get stuck with it. If someone calls you about buying this property, tell them(Just a suggestion. You do not have to say the following if you don't feel comfortable with it) "I think it's already sold, but let me check." Wait a few seconds, and say "Actually, it is still available. It must have been the other property that we just sold." Then proceed to get them to take action. This way, it looks like you are doing deals regularly even if you are new. Always have the right info and answers for buyers and sellers, or you will look like an amateur to them, and they likely won't work with you. If the cash buyer you are trying to sell this property to is not interested, start contacting anyone else who is looking for this type of property and do the same thing. If no one is buying it, then you might have missed the mark on this property. Maybe the size is too small or it's not exactly in the right neighborhood.

Step #6

CLOSING

If you talk to a cash buyer who is interested, let them know that you require a $2,000 earnest money deposit by escrow to secure this property. Your buyer can do this by depositing the $2,000 in escrow with the title/closing company you will be using to close both your purchase from the seller, and your sale to your cash buyer. If you do not have a title/closing company, call around and find one that works with investors. Let them know that you will be doing "back-to-back" or "double-closes." Let them know that you already have "wet-funds" in place. Wet funds means you will be closing and purchasing a property and paying for it in full.

When you do a "double-close", you are closing in the morning, and then doing a second close later that same day. So you are essentially "buying" a property in the morning on the day of closing from a seller, and "selling" it again later the same day to your cash buyer.

Step #7

GETTING PAID

Once both of your closes have taken place, you will be paid by the title/closing company the same day or the next. Typically, it will be by check. If not, then they may wire the money directly to your bank account. That's it! You're done, and made good money with very little effort. Now go do it over and over and again!

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J ScottPro Member
Moderator
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
12y
Originally posted by Chris Piper:
Wholesaling is by far the best way to get started. It requires no training, knowledge, cash, credit, or experience.

Thanks for the chuckle...

If this were true, wouldn't everyone who has ever attempted wholesaling have succeeded?

See this reply in the discussion

68 Replies

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  • Real Estate Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2013 · 415 posts · 84 votes
    12y

    I agree @J Scott . It does irritate me (also a GC) going through the leg work to get people pricing on a job. Over the years I have learned how to screen some of these people out. As everyone knows time is valuable and if someone asks me to do the leg work and give them a price it will be a rough price unless I know they are seriously considering my company for the work.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    12y

    J. Scott, I had the same concerns as well. Investors, flippers/landlords will generally be seeing a higher price if it's listed or if an agent is involved at all as they prefer to buy as cheaply as the can. I've known some that simply won't move on any deal, even if the numbers are decent, unless they buy at 10% less, not paying, in their minds, the commission and getting the seller off their asking price.

    A Realtor won't work long if they don't get paid. Wholesaling isn't listing a property for public consumption, it's selling directly to those in RE and you don't need a Realtor for that.

    As to contractors giving bids, they may if you pay them, but getting them in there thinking they are going to get a job and just taking advantage of them won't work often, contractors talk amongst themselves just as Realtors do, or anyone else in RE. They see that as simply screwing them over and it is.

    You can certainly pay others to do things, but won't take long to realize that to make money you need knowledge and be able to do things yourself. :)

  • Wholesaler · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2013 · 336 posts · 54 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by Shaun Reilly:
    Originally posted by J Scott:
    Originally posted by Shaun Reilly:
    The issue with is the quality of the deal. I will say that like 99% of newer wholesalers fall into 2 categories. The first are the ones that are struggling to find deals and the other are the ones that get stuff under contracts that aren't really deals.

    It is not. You have to find exceptionally good deals since they have to be good enough for the rehabber to want to buy it AFTER you take a reasonable fee for you time and effort. Then you have to find a LOT of them since you aren't making that much (usually) on each deal.

    Like in my area if you can make $10K average on a wholesale (I don't think most guys are making this much, probably between $5-10K usually) if you do one every other month you are making a decent living but aren't rolling in dough. However if I source my own deals and get that many that are good enough to have wholesaled for $10K I don't have to do anything else that year and I probably make at least a quarter million in profit.

    I am curious about one thing with wholesalers... Most of the guru's suggest you can quit your job with 6 to 8 weeks which is crazy. Even if you hate your job, are you crazy enough to quit just because you are a wholesaler. Most are under the impression even myself at first, you can make $10K per deal or more. I haven't made my first deal but I steal think it is ridiculous, having that expectation on EVERY deal. I also think people have this enlighten moment of get rich quick. Oh wait... go to biggerpockets and start reading.... Oh wait, I won't get rich quick but I can slowly. Oh it doesn't take any money, it is super easy, and doesn't require any of your free time. Once again, I am on biggerpockets... Oh wait, it requires money for marketing, also it requires a lot of my time, wait knowledge.... I have to have knowledge too to do this. I can't just offer a deal to anyone, that is not what I was told. I would rather continue the easy way out and do my 9 to 5 because wholesaling is not easy at all.

  • Wholesaler · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2013 · 336 posts · 54 votes
    12y

    @J Scott @Shaun Reilly @Chris Piper @Joshua D.

    I know this is one of the best threads I have ever read on wholesaling since I have been on here on BP. IMO all new wholesalers should read this because you have covered the important elements of being a new wholesaler. All of you are speaking through experience so with that being said. This is what I have gained from this thread and I believe most people would agree.

    1. Wholesaling is not easy and does require hard work.

    2. Wholesaling requires a small amount of money for bandit signs and additional marketing.

    3. Wholesaling requires knowledge; being able to locate, evaluate, and market a good deal.

    4. To be a great wholesaler and successful one, you should have integrity, some discipline, and credibility.

    Wholesaling is a business, we should all conduct ourselves with this in mind.

    Good business leaders create a vision, articulate the vision, passionately own the vision, and relentlessly drive it to completion. Jack Welch

  • Dev HornPro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Arlington, TX · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    12y

    I agree with J Scott above. Why in the WORLD would a contractor help a wholesaler who will NEVER hire them for a job? And a RE agent may help you out a couple of times with comps, but when it becomes obvious that you will not be buying or listing houses with them, that will come to an end. That advice is simply not realistic, and it does not provide the basis for a sustainable, repeatable business.

    If you are going to do wholesaling for a living, you need to develop some expertise in the value of houses in different neighborhoods in your farm area - you should know $ per square foot almost by street. I do have an RE agent that provides me lots of comps because I occasionally make offers on REOs on the MLS thru her. She is on my team.

    You also need to develop serious knowledge in how to evaluate property for repairs - especially for foundations, roofs, and HVAC as those are the things that can KILL your numbers if you're wrong.

    It is frustrating to read this stuff that says "be a wholesaler with no knowledge or money". It sets people up for wasting their time (and $ for the "guru") and ending up disappointed and worse off than they were when they started.

  • Landlord and Rehabber · Newton, MA · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 877 votes
    12y

    One thing I have heard and actually seen some guys do is be honest with the contractor that they aren't going to be doing the work but are going to be selling the house to someone who is.

    Ask them if they will make the quote transferable for some amount of time. Include the quote with your package and maybe the rehabber likes it and gets in touch with the contractor.

    In that case you are being honest and the contractor can choose to do the quote or not. It also is not really any more risk to them than when anyone that intends to do the work calls them out and eventually goes with a different guy.

  • Wholesaler · Mishawaka, IN · Member since 2013 · 438 posts · 346 votes
    12y

    Obviously you can't use the same contractors over and over again because they will get tired of wasting their time. I was simply saying you can use contractors for your first few wholesale deals to give you an idea of the repair costs to include for the cash buyers you are trying to sell to. The more accurate the repair costs, the more likely they are to work with you. If you are just pulling numbers out of thin air, your wholesale career will be a short one. Also, I stated that you can include your quotes from contractors in the info you send to cash buyers so that they can choose to use your contractors. A lot of the time cash buyers will already have a contractor they use, or maybe their own crew. There is the possibility that they may actually use one of your contractors that you provided them a quote from.

    RE agents are the same way. Obviously they will get tired of you not doing any deals through them, but at the same time, they are used to doing a ton of work for people, and sometimes for no pay. When they go show a young couple 30 houses, and then the guy loses his job, they just wasted a lot of time showing those houses for nothing. I'm not saying that anyone should use or abuse the help of a contractor or an RE agent, but initially, they can provide a new wholesaler with things they can't figure out on their own.

    Also, it would definitely help if you wholesaled other types of properties using your RE agent. If you pick-up an REO or short sale, or whatever, at least you are doing some business through them which will make them much more likely to keep helping you for free.

    @J Scott I have wholesaled over 50+ deals in the past 18 months. I'm just putting out there some of my personal experience and what works for me. Obviously I didn't know how to estimate repairs in the beginning, so I utilized contractors. I didn't use them every time, but just on the first few deals until I figured out what repairs cost, and the same goes for the RE agents. They would pull comps and CMA's for me, and after a few deals started picking-up REO's, rehabs, and properties that have been on the market for a long time. This way, they are always willing to help because you do close deals with them. A person can't use contractors and RE agents over and over again expecting them to happily help, but in the beginning for a few deals they can to help get them going.

  • Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2013 · 82 posts · 17 votes
    12y

    @William T., Well put and totally agreed as someone who has been on Biggerpockets reading, listening to Podcasts. One person who is a rehabber has their opinion based on experience, a buy and hold person has their opinion based experiences and a wholesaler has their opinions based on experiences. I think going forward I'll choose to take each one's opinion based on reputation/experience and funnel to what I am trying to accomplish. I have been trying to get wholesale business started with no current j.o.b. and little funds. I have put in several offers with no Deal and My main source of leads has come from CL. I have recently put together a probate list and will send direct mail this week. I think my biggest problem I have so far is knowing if it's a deal. I have gone to both sides of the coin so to speak and have listened to gurus also, but not bought any programs, and it seems while they all claim to have the "best system" or "latest and greatest program" that it's all similar regurgitated stuff. . In addition I had started to work with a "mentor" who is basically trying to setup a nationwide network to wholesale deals. He offered his buyers and help finding/analyzing deals for a profit split. We had contact for about a mo. and I just stopped getting response from him. I guess in my mind the best thing to do is find a mentor more local and try to get them to work with me. Good luck and be Blessed All!

  • Oakville, Ontario · Member since 2013 · 162 posts · 48 votes
    12y

    @Chris Piper I commend you for always going above and beyond to help newbie wholesalers get over the initial hump (s). I understand that you are just mentioning what works for you. Thanks for sharing.

    Like all the other posts, we (as newbies) can pick and choose what info/advice we want to implement. However, I am thankful for the experienced investors/commentators who are quick to advise us about the consequences of our choices.

  • Derreck WellsPro Member
    Specialist · Pelham, NH · Member since 2013 · 547 posts · 269 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by Chris Piper:
    Lastly, contractors don't charge anything to give you a quote, so utilizing them and their knowledge is another free tool that wholesalers can and should be using.
    I do 100% agree with you in that getting an unscrupulous wholesaler who is bringing you fire damaged houses in the hood when you want complete rehabs in good neighborhoods, is annoying and a waste of everyone's time. ...

    ..."The one thing that still eludes me is being able to estimate rehab cost. So my question is besides experience, how do I even get educated on rehab costs?"
    The best way when you're just starting out is to have multiple contractors give you estimates when you first go to inspect a property PRIOR to making any offers.

    @Chris Piper

    You have got to be ********* kidding me!!!!

    In the same breath you advocate wasting a contractor's time, but to bring "fire damaged houses" to a buyer is a waste of a their time, so don't do that. What is wrong with you that you can think it's okay to waste one person's time but not another's?

    I was behind you for the most part until that post. The only issue I had before that is you are encouraging newbe's to lie to the buyers. You will get a lot further by being honest and telling the buyers "I'm new, can you help me to find a deal that you would be interested in buying? What specifically are you looking for?" The fact that you are being honest will go a LONG way to getting you the help you need without wasting anyone's time! The buyer will know that if they help you to be a better wholesaler, they will get better deals. They will probably send their contractor (you know, the one they pay for their time) to check the house out for you. And because they will buy it if it's a good deal, the contractor will then get the work. They get a repair estimate from a trusted source, not someone who lies to them to try to get them to act quickly.

    If I were in your area Chris, I wouldn't buy from you. If you will lie about having other offers, what else will you lie about? We need to keep some integrity in what what we do. Look at it this way, you screw a buyer on a deal, they lose their shirt and give up flipping, you lost a repeat client. Or if they just broke even, they won't buy from you again because you lied to them. Either way. it's bad all the way around.

    Use Wal-Mart's formula. Smaller per sale profit = more sales = higher profits.

  • Wholesaler · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2013 · 336 posts · 54 votes
    12y

    @Derreck Wells Chris was definitely not saying to waste the contractors time because it is a small world and contractors talk just like investors. He was simply advising me on how to gain experience about rehab costs. It is a good idea because the current deal I am evaluating, the costs for the rehab is a really big deal. It is very important that I don't pitch a bad deal because it will more than likely be an out of town buyer. Using a contractor would be perfect because I would send their estimate and info to the buyers so they can you the specified contractor. As a newbie, credibility is extremely important for the first couple of deals. Of course with time and credibility establish, your buyer will have full confidence and so will you.

  • Wholesaler · Mishawaka, IN · Member since 2013 · 438 posts · 346 votes
    12y

    @Derreck Wells , @William T. nailed it. I was advising to "fake it till you make it" basically. Obviously, you can't fake too much with a cash buyer because they are smart, they know what their doing, and of course they will smell too much BS a mile away.

    In my opinion, being 100% honest with a cash buyer is a bad move. They don't want to babysit a new wholesaler or hold them by the hand and show them the ropes. They are busy people and they don't have time for that. If you don't have what they need and know what you're talking about(I'm not referring to education, training, or experience), I'm talking about facts and figures, then you will likely never hear from them again. Why would they help you through the process? If you're new, and maybe are talking to them about a property before you even have it under contract, why wouldn't they just take you're deal? You're a newbie with no experience, which makes you an easy target. In my experience, most people with money are a-holes. Not all, but most. They are in business to make money, not to make friends, and will do almost anything to make more of it.

    Lastly, I never said anything in regards to lying about multiple offers. I said use multiple contractors when you get estimates on a property you are considering buying. That way you will bet a broader spectrum of repair costs.

  • Derreck WellsPro Member
    Specialist · Pelham, NH · Member since 2013 · 547 posts · 269 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by Chris Piper:

    Lastly, I never said anything in regards to lying about multiple offers. I said use multiple contractors when you get estimates on a property you are considering buying. That way you will bet a broader spectrum of repair costs.

    Dude, you are so full of $hit I can smell you from here...

    "Call them and tell them that you have a property for them which matches their requirements. Tell them that you already have some buyers looking for the same properties, but as a courtesy to them, you wanted to give them first crack at it. Obviously you are lying, but you need to put pressure on them to buy this property right away so you don't get stuck with it."

  • Derreck WellsPro Member
    Specialist · Pelham, NH · Member since 2013 · 547 posts · 269 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by Chris Piper:
    ... of course they will smell too much BS a mile away.
    In my opinion, being 100% honest with a cash buyer is a bad move....

    ... Why would they help you through the process? If you're new, and maybe are talking to them about a property before you even have it under contract, why wouldn't they just take you're deal?

    SO many things wrong with your thinking. I'll start at the top here...

    You're right. Everyone can smell your BS. So you should be honest. Lying makes you look like... well... a liar.

    Next... they'll help you because if you do it right, you won't waste their time! Plus... now think about this for a minute... if they take you in and "train" you, so to speak, aren't you going to feel obligated to them a little? Wouldn't you then bring them your "deals" first? Aren't they then going to make a bunch more money? Seems like a good way to invest in their company to me.

    Now, lastly, "...why wouldn't they just take your deal?"

    It's called ethics. Look it up.

  • Derreck WellsPro Member
    Specialist · Pelham, NH · Member since 2013 · 547 posts · 269 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by William T.:
    @Derreck Wells Chris was definitely not saying to waste the contractors time because it is a small world and contractors talk just like investors. He was simply advising me on how to gain experience about rehab costs. It is a good idea because the current deal I am evaluating, the costs for the rehab is a really big deal. It is very important that I don't pitch a bad deal because it will more than likely be an out of town buyer. Using a contractor would be perfect because I would send their estimate and info to the buyers so they can you the specified contractor. As a newbie, credibility is extremely important for the first couple of deals. Of course with time and credibility establish, your buyer will have full confidence and so will you.

    @William T. - Pay the contractor $100 to come do the estimate, that's the only way you're not wasting their time and money. Do you have any idea how much gas a 3/4 ton pickup uses? I do, and it's disgusting. I spend anywhere from $300 to $500 a week on gas in my Sierra 2500. I only get about 10 miles to the gallon.

    The cash buyer already has a team in place. They already have contractors. They're not going to use the guy you called in for the estimate. EVER. Don't believe Chris' B.S. If you're contractor's numbers are lower then their own contractor's numbers, they'll assume that either you lied to them or your contractor is an idiot and missed some major repairs. Either way, they're not hiring your guy.

    Ask your buyer who they use for a contractor, then ask that contractor to come do the estimate. Explain to the contractor that you're considering buying the house and offering it to the buyer and the contractor will get the work if he buys it. If you think your buyer is unethical and will try to steal the deal from you, then why are you working with that buyer?

  • Wholesaler · Mishawaka, IN · Member since 2013 · 438 posts · 346 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by Derreck Wells:
    Originally posted by Chris Piper:

    Lastly, I never said anything in regards to lying about multiple offers. I said use multiple contractors when you get estimates on a property you are considering buying. That way you will bet a broader spectrum of repair costs.

    Dude, you are so full of $hit I can smell you from here...

    "Call them and tell them that you have a property for them which matches their requirements. Tell them that you already have some buyers looking for the same properties, but as a courtesy to them, you wanted to give them first crack at it. Obviously you are lying, but you need to put pressure on them to buy this property right away so you don't get stuck with it."

    @Derreck Wells I only suggested that someone do that. They can do whatever they want to. They don't have to say that. They can say "You are the first person I called, I REALLY hope you buy this from me!" Then, they can watch themselves lose that cash buyer forever, it's up to each person on how they deal with the cash buyers.

    Last I checked, using a handyman was simply a way to save money on repairs by not hiring someone who decided to become a professional in the construction business. It's kind of like the equivalent of using a "backyard mechanic" to fix your car for $20/hr. instead of taking to an actual repair shop where they'll charge you $80/hr. I also didn't realize that you being a "handyman" made you such an expert in wholesaling. I guess I'll have to call some local handymen in my area and get their advice on how to become a better wholesaler.

  • Wholesaler · Mishawaka, IN · Member since 2013 · 438 posts · 346 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by Derreck Wells:
    Originally posted by Chris Piper:
    ... of course they will smell too much BS a mile away.
    In my opinion, being 100% honest with a cash buyer is a bad move....
    ... Why would they help you through the process? If you're new, and maybe are talking to them about a property before you even have it under contract, why wouldn't they just take you're deal?

    SO many things wrong with your thinking. I'll start at the top here...

    You're right. Everyone can smell your BS. So you should be honest. Lying makes you look like... well... a liar.

    Next... they'll help you because if you do it right, you won't waste their time! Plus... now think about this for a minute... if they take you in and "train" you, so to speak, aren't you going to feel obligated to them a little? Wouldn't you then bring them your "deals" first? Aren't they then going to make a bunch more money? Seems like a good way to invest in their company to me.

    Now, lastly, "...why wouldn't they just take your deal?"

    It's called ethics. Look it up.

    @Derreck Wells You really think telling a cash buyer that you are totally new and need their wisdom and experience is going to just instantly get them to decide to mentor you? CLEARLY you are NOT a wholesaler and don't understand cash buyers or how they work. As I said, they do not want to deal with anyone who is not bringing them what they need. They are in business to make money with real estate, not teach someone how to become a good wholesaler.

    Also, they wouldn't take your deal because they have ethics? Seriously? Some people do have ethics, but there are always people out there who will be more than happy to go ahead and take that deal off of your hands for say.............nothing. Man, you are seriously out of touch with reality, completely oblivious to how things work, or you just think that all human beings are great and trustworthy. Either way, you are WAY off.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    12y

    Chris, I very, very rarely attack someone personally, my comments are not personal as much as attacking bad information.

    Derreck, that comment will likely be removed, that is over the top, but your point is made, looks like Chris is back pedaling here.

    Either you are 100% honest or you are dishonest, there is no grey area.

    I'd say most are trying to make wholesaling much harder than it needs to be.

    If someone brings me a deal, all I really need to hear is something like "I found a property I think meets your requirements and it's a 3/2/2, I think I can get it to you at $65,500. It's at 2816 S. Kings. I really am calling your first, (omit that if that is not true) I can drop by or meet your there, when would you like to see it?

    That's all I need, that's all any real cash buying or even a financing type investor needs. I'm not taking your numbers on anything. I don't really care what you put together or what your opinion to value is or if you had Mr. Jake Leg contractor go through it or if Sally Realtor gave you comps.

    I suppose newbies must think real investors (those who actually buy, have cash or the ability to buy) are needing your opinions. Really? Are you serious? Aren't you flipping your deal to someone who is in real estate, who has been through the buying process before?

    Seems to me this is just newbie thinking that you are going to be "selling" some seasoned pro anything, it's almost insulting. Strutting around like the **** of the walk and dumping data and numbers and claims as to value with some sales oriented pitch will get you tossed out my door.

    How should new people start off and continue doing deals, I'd suggest rather hat in hand, honestly and not intruding upon some seasoned buyer has as their approach to buying.

    I've dumped a heck of lot of properties, way more than 50 and I never ever gave repair estimates from any contractor. It's totally irrelevant what Joe Smith the contractor thinks.

    You certainly don't mislead anyone, saying they have first crack at a deal when you have contacted others. I can assure you that you will go show the property to "your number one guy" and before you leave your number 3 guy will drive up that you showed the place to yesterday. The fact is, you never have to say someone has first crack at it, unless they actually are given the first chance, after that, say nothing!

    Now, knowing very little starting out, you might pay a Realtor to run some comps for you and assist you in getting a good price for YOU. At that point, if you can't figure values, then get and pay for assistance, so you may need a hundred bucks!

    The old pros in your area know each other or know of each other. I and probably any other seasoned type in RE just don't need the opinions of someone rather new in RE, regardless od how smart you might be, has nothing to do with what you may know, it's all about what we know and do, we simply are not going to be influenced by someone with 5 years around in the business.

    Now, what kind of information do we want? We want to know if there will or could be any title issues. Any condemnation orders pending or any other legal actions pending? Is there a tenant in it and when will the lease terminate. Is the property in marketable condition? Are there any significant repair issues, not what you think it will take (unless you're asked) but just tell me there's a 3 foot hole in the roof! I'll have an idea of what that will cost on the phone, before you can tell me who you had look at it! But, if you did get a bid, that's easy to address.

    "Bill, the house has a 3' hole in the roof from a fallen branch and I got a bid of $600 to repair it" Done, enough information in most cases. I might ask who gave the bid, I might know them. If I do, what I might do later is call them and ask them what they thought of the house!

    That leads us to giving too much information, you might not want me calling that contractor. You need to be 100% honest in what you say but you don't need to tell everything you know unless it's required.

    BTW, if I see any bid for any repair, you can bet I'll be calling that contractor. Guess what, that contractor will probably tell me more than they do you in most cases I'd say, unless you got some newbie contractor. They know who has properties, they know who will have work done and if they don't know my name, it will take about 30 seconds for them to size me up on the phone and realize I'm no newbie, they will want my business probably more than yours (especially if you just use them).

    What most new folks don't understand is that the pros will do much of their communication and negotiations with those that they see as being rather new with a bit of tongue in check. What I learned a long time ago is that savvy investors will give you all the rope you want to hang yourself. They are sizing you up every time they meet you until they get your number, you never get a second chance to make a first impression. Lie tome one time and I'll never trust you! Tell me something that is exaggerated or add too much sizzle to some pitch and I'll be looking closely at everything that comes out of your mouth with scrutiny. Tell me something stupid and I'll over look it, I'm sure others chalk it up to your lack of knowledge as well. We all started out not knowing things, there's no real issue in honest mistakes.

    I'll bet I have read posts by at least 20 wanabe wholesaling gurus, none have had enough experience or knowledge in the real world to be teaching others. Frankly, claiming to be doing 2.78 deals a month on the average for 18 months is a bit tough for me to believe. If someone is finding properties, working with a Realtor, running contractors through properties, calling on buyers, showing the properties, coordinating transactions with closing requirements, getting deals closed and the office side, I'd say one guy is pretty busy and wouldn't have much time to be posting in forums. But even so, that's not much experience to be teaching RE for those that have such aspirations, if they do.

    I probably should have put all this in Will's thread "The truth about wholesaling" , it's long but might be a good read.

    I suggest you simplify your life, understand your customers and don't get into things that you don't need to get into. My last flip was two phone calls with the same guy and about 4 other calls. A walk through with the seller and my buyer, about 4 hours and then off to closing. No contractor, no Realtor, no stories, no promises, no implications, just a straight deal between a couple guys who knew what they both wanted and who took out a seller. Pretty simple. :)

  • Wholesaler · Mishawaka, IN · Member since 2013 · 438 posts · 346 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by Derreck Wells:
    Originally posted by William T.:
    @Derreck Wells Chris was definitely not saying to waste the contractors time because it is a small world and contractors talk just like investors. He was simply advising me on how to gain experience about rehab costs. It is a good idea because the current deal I am evaluating, the costs for the rehab is a really big deal. It is very important that I don't pitch a bad deal because it will more than likely be an out of town buyer. Using a contractor would be perfect because I would send their estimate and info to the buyers so they can you the specified contractor. As a newbie, credibility is extremely important for the first couple of deals. Of course with time and credibility establish, your buyer will have full confidence and so will you.

    @William T. - Pay the contractor $100 to come do the estimate, that's the only way you're not wasting their time and money. Do you have any idea how much gas a 3/4 ton pickup uses? I do, and it's disgusting. I spend anywhere from $300 to $500 a week on gas in my Sierra 2500. I only get about 10 miles to the gallon.

    The cash buyer already has a team in place. They already have contractors. They're not going to use the guy you called in for the estimate. EVER. Don't believe Chris' B.S. If you're contractor's numbers are lower then their own contractor's numbers, they'll assume that either you lied to them or your contractor is an idiot and missed some major repairs. Either way, they're not hiring your guy.

    Ask your buyer who they use for a contractor, then ask that contractor to come do the estimate. Explain to the contractor that you're considering buying the house and offering it to the buyer and the contractor will get the work if he buys it. If you think your buyer is unethical and will try to steal the deal from you, then why are you working with that buyer?

    So your great advice is to pay a contractor $100 every time you need a quote? Let me just take a shot in the dark here and say that it's not likely that someone just starting out in wholesaling(the cheapest way to get started in real estate) can afford to just throw away $100 for every house they look at in order to decide if it's a good deal before they even put it under contract. That is ridiculous.

    If you spend so much in gas, maybe you should start charging $100 per estimate you give or buy a different vehicle to use for giving estimates? Maybe a prius? Either way, again it's completely obvious that you are speaking as handyman and not a wholesaler. If you were a wholesaler, you would see how far off you are with your idea about paying $100 for an estimate.

    Also, someone should ask their cash buyer, who already doesn't need them since they are new and know nothing about wholesaling, who their contractor is? Umm.......WHAT? So I should call my cash buyers and find out who their contractor is, who has more than likely been working with the cash buyer for years, and ask for a quote where I will knowingly charge the cash buyer they work with an extra $5K-$10K? In what universe does this work out for the wholesaler? Why wouldn't the contractor go to the cash buyer who has paid them $10's of thousands of dollars over the years, and just work directly with them? They are not knowingly going to screw their customer out of $5K-$10K, and it's a conflict of interest. It's like finding a house listed with an agent who is working for a seller, then expecting them to work with you and get you the best price on the house their client is selling.

    Why would you work with a cash buyer is unethical? You wouldn't. Of course there is the minor detail of being a new wholesaler, you wouldn't know who is unethical until they screw you out of a deal first. Maybe, someone could just put all the names of their cash buyers in a hat and draw a few out of their and just decide in advance before working with them that they are unethical? Or possibly consult a magic 8-ball? New wholesalers should probably just either ask your opinion first before working with a cash buyer or just buy your book "How Not to Work with Unethical Cash Buyers" by Derreck the handyman published by Laughing Stock Publishing.

  • Landlord and Rehabber · Newton, MA · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 877 votes
    12y

    @Derreck Wells On fire!

    I think that you have it right for the most part.

    1) Lying to your buyers about your experience and/or the "competition" on a property is dishonest and likely to get you in the dog house. Much more likely to dismiss someone that says they have all this experience then someone that says they are new. Also trying to drum up fake competition would back fire on me as I typically tell them to sell it to one of them as they will likely pay more.

    2) Lying and using a contractor is wasting the contractors time. It is a tough situation for everyone in that the Wholesaler does need to utilize someone that knows this stuff but it is disingenuous to pretend like the guy might get the job from you.

    3) I do not totally agree that there is no way a buyer would use a contractor that had supplied the wholesaler a quote. Every rehabber I know is always looking for 3 things. First more deals, second more money and third new contractors. If they provide a good detailed quote on the job I would be willing to talk with them and at least give their bid as much weight as any other new contractor I would have bid the job. Yes if I was light on work and needed to give one of my "preferred" guys work I wouldn't be as open, but it isn't clear cut.

    4) Going more towards Chris's responses any ethical buyer will not try to cut the wholesaler out. A smart business person will not try to screw you out of a fee and never get another deal from you and risk getting that reputation from the local investor community. Sure you may get some unscrupulous person but you should control any deal you present to your buyers. This should protect your interests but more importantly it will keep the buyers happy. You want to know how to get on my $hitli$t as a wholesaler? Make me waste time looking over a deal you don't control and have no idea if you can even get at the price you are offering.

    5) Derreck is totally right and Chris is totally wrong about buyers dealing with new wholesalers. Now I would not say the best approach being saying you a bumbling fool that knows nothing and needs to be taught everything, but saying you are new and want some guidance on what to look for isn't bad at all. I like helping new people and often do more than I really have time to. However I do know that if I groom even one of these guys to be a good wholesaler they will be looking for what I want to buy and will bring it to me first. Good karma and good business.

    6) To the point bouncing around on what someone wants to see from a wholesaler, clearly there are differing opinions on that. That sucks for the wholesaler since it isn't clear cut. Personally I want something on the extremes. If you give me detail then I want to see the actual detailed contractor quote and the full on Realtor CMA as well as the cost breakdown that details all the projected costs beyond the repairs. For the most part give me a quick rundown of the property basics and the address along with an unsupported ARV and repair estimate just to screen and I will look to see if it is worth taking any real time to evaluate. Honestly I like the light version better. What is really useless is a half a$$ed "full" analysis using some deal sheet they got from a course and leaving out a lot of pertinent information.

  • Oakville, Ontario · Member since 2013 · 162 posts · 48 votes
    12y

    wow!...

    I sit here shaking my head at what's happening. I don't know about anyone else, but this forum is my "class room". The "subject" of this post is interesting and is amusing to some, because we know that "clarification" is required. Fine, the commentators chimed in and Chris mentioned that the title could/should be revamped (it's some where in there).

    Wholesaling is not guru easy and it is not rocket science. I like being transparent with sellers/buyers and whom ever, from the beginning. It just makes it easier for everyone to be on the same page and it sets the expectations. I will not go to a buyer, an agent or contractor, to "learn the ropes". From my perspective, too many newbies have been taken advantage of this way. Yes, this is a people business and networking is crucial, but you also have to learn who are the opportunists and the wolves in sheep clothing.

    I understand that @Chris Piper 's suggestions are for those who are "broke" and even if a $100 was in the account, it would be used for food or to pay a bill. I do not agree with everything he said, but I will repeat, he is doing what works for "him". Take it with a grain of salt (if needed) and address any issue(s) you may have "respectfully", so that he, myself and any student will have a positive learning experience, instead of being left confused, open mouthed and/or headed for the door.

    Whether it be this topic or any other, our "approach" has to be different. We are on this forum to give and receive help and this should be a "safe" place where we can share and learn without the fear of people jumping down our throats, riding on our backs and repeatedly kicking us in the butt. If we need to be de-guru-tized, then please do so without the pain and insults

  • Derreck WellsPro Member
    Specialist · Pelham, NH · Member since 2013 · 547 posts · 269 votes
    12y

    @Chris Piper - I do charge $100 for an estimate. I got tired of people using me. It's common practice around here. I called a HVAC company today that charges $129 for a "diagnostic visit" to tell you what's wrong with your heat and how much they'll charge you to fix it. And you're right, I'm not a wholesaler. I'd rather fix the house and make the extra profit. And I can't figure out how to tow a trailer full of tools with a prius. I generally do estimates on the way home from a job site. You know, when most people are going home to their families for dinner... that's the time I'm taking to go do an estimate. Do you have a family Chris? What's your time with them worth to you?

    Yes, but by your teaching, they only need to do this two or three times and they'll know how to estimate the repairs themselves, right?

    Well, Chris, if you get screwed out of a deal that you spent no money on yet, what did you really lose? Your time? But according to you, time isn't worth anything anyway, you're advocating wasting a contractor's time.

    Now if you do get screwed, you know not to work with that buyer again and you'll never bring them a deal. Therefore, the buyer would potentially lose multiple deals worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, just to make an extra $5,000 on one? Doesn't seem like a smart buyer to me.

  • Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2009 · 9 posts · 3 votes
    12y

    Wow, seems to me that there are many a way to skin a deal. I am new to this forum. New to real estate investing. Should have started a long time ago, would have if I had connections, could have when I had a W2, But didn't, and now I am looking at getting into wholesaling because I just lost my job and as many of us know it is tough out here.

    I think this forum has made be more depressed. I agree with Belinda D. Relax. I know it is not easy and am willing to work really hard, heck I got nothing else going on. A new start. Wanted to get on board and learn make some connections and show someone I can be a positive to their team. Bird dogging or pushing a broom. I am willing to do what it takes. But guys, you got my head spinning. I have 2 degrees and man you have me thinking I need to go back to school for construction science and learn to be a project manager before I could do this. I know there has to be others who where in a similar situation as I am and made it happen and I want that.

    How did you start, what where your obstacles and how did you overcome, Did you have a mentor where did you find them??

    So with that being said, If there is anyone on this thread willing to coach me up their way and give me a chance to show that I am a quick study and we will make money together and are in the Lewisville Texas area please reach out to me. You won't regret it. Peace

  • Insurance Agent · AZ · Member since 2013 · 306 posts · 161 votes
    12y

    @Shaun Reilly "5) Derreck is totally right and Chris is totally wrong about buyers dealing with new wholesalers. Now I would not say the best approach being saying you a bumbling fool that knows nothing and needs to be taught everything, but saying you are new and want some guidance on what to look for isn't bad at all. I like helping new people and often do more than I really have time to. However I do know that if I groom even one of these guys to be a good wholesaler they will be looking for what I want to buy and will bring it to me first. Good karma and good business."

    I agree. It's a thin line between wasting peoples time, and having absolutely NO real intentions of listening to what they have to offer; however, if you humble yourself and are willing to follow the advice (again, you can pick and chose what works for you), people can oftentimes surprise you and be generous with their time.

    A bit of humility and honesty goes a long way. I learned a lonnnnnng time ago, that while people are uber busy, they love to talk about what they know and are knowledgeable about. As the person asking, you need to a. be respectful of their time; b. thank them for the opportunity; c. listen and ask intelligent questions, and d. pay it forward to someone else.

    Overall, this has been an interesting thread. I appreciate what everyone is saying.

  • Real estate investor · Las Vegas · Member since 2013 · 798 posts · 171 votes
    12y

    There are a lot of ways to get across a point w/o the attacks. Some of the same people on here are constantly responding to people in the wrong way.

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