Why do people Buy Property in California
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
Why do people Buy Property in California
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Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
1yWhere do you think people are growing richer with real estate.....Los Angeles or Cleveland? Owning just a few typical properties in California turns you into a multimillionaire very quickly. Owning a few typical properties in Cleveland gets you an extra $500 a month.
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- Investor · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2014 · 15 posts · 3 votes1y
Oh and I am currently submitting various properties in Los Angeles to private and hard money lenders. When did real estate buying become only for the wealthy with the opportunities in this country. You still can make alot here and there are new buyers every day.
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
Sure they are everywhere. But 51% of all homeless and 'unsheltered' in the entire country are in Cali...just numbers.Quote from @Steve K.:
Not sure about Tucson, but PHX was court-ordered to removed thousand(s) from the downtown area. Much better now.
So it is indeed a national problem, but is just much worse in Cali.I had to fact check this after your last statement about the CA population declining ended up being false due to only accounting for our-migration and not including immigration, and once again you’ve gotten the info mixed up. The actual estimate is that less than 25% of the nations homeless people live in California, not 51%. Big difference there, you more than doubled the percentage so yeah it’s just numbers but your numbers are wrong. I think where your 51% probably came from is that a large percentage of the homeless people in California sleep outdoors (unsheltered homeless people, a subset of the overall homeless population). Current estimates are that 45% of the countries UNSHELTERED homeless people live in CA, not overall homeless. That’s simply because they can sleep outside there compared to homeless people in colder climates who must sleep in shelters so they don’t freeze to death.
Homelessness is a big problem in CA but they are also doing more than any other state to address it and homelessness only increased 3% there last year compared to double digits in many other states. Again, it’s a nationwide systemic problem not just a CA problem.
- Coupeville, WA · Member since 2016 · 93 posts · 73 votes1y
Quote from @Steve K.:
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
Sure they are everywhere. But 51% of all homeless and 'unsheltered' in the entire country are in Cali...just numbers.Quote from @Steve K.:
Not sure about Tucson, but PHX was court-ordered to removed thousand(s) from the downtown area. Much better now.
So it is indeed a national problem, but is just much worse in Cali.I had to fact check this after your last statement about the CA population declining ended up being false due to only accounting for our-migration and not including immigration, and once again you’ve gotten the info mixed up. The actual estimate is that less than 25% of the nations homeless people live in California, not 51%. Big difference there, you more than doubled the percentage so yeah it’s just numbers but your numbers are wrong. I think where your 51% probably came from is that a large percentage of the homeless people in California sleep outdoors (unsheltered homeless people, a subset of the overall homeless population). Current estimates are that 45% of the countries UNSHELTERED homeless people live in CA, not overall homeless. That’s simply because they can sleep outside there compared to homeless people in colder climates who must sleep in shelters so they don’t freeze to death.
Homelessness is a big problem in CA but they are also doing more than any other state to address it and homelessness only increased 3% there last year compared to double digits in many other states. Again, it’s a nationwide systemic problem not just a CA problem.
Not taking any sides in the polite ( thank you ) numbers conversation but I am curious about the per capita comparisons. 25% is still a big number even though CA has some 11% to 12% of the total US population. Compared to some other states with larger homeless populations what do those per capita numbers look like? Comparing against some smaller population states could just be unfair comparisons for those states.
- Coupeville, WA · Member since 2016 · 93 posts · 73 votes1y
Not trolling but just trying to provide some context about why states and other countries like CA have such stringent earth quake codes that keep getting updated.
I will never really understand the power of a Cat4 or Cat5 hurricane until I experience one. I have been in a 6.8 and 6.9 earthquake in WA and CA respectively. The 6.8 was some 65 miles south of me, I was on the 2nd floor of an office building that shook so hard for a minute that people were having problems staying standing up. A 7.0 releases some 32 times the amount of energy as the atomic bomb used on Hiroshima.
- Rental Property Investor · New Braunfels, TX · Member since 2022 · 409 posts · 408 votes1y
Quote from @Steve K.:
California has allocated more than $20 billion to alleviate the state's homelessness crisis since Gavin Newsom became governor in 2019, but there's precious little data on how the money was spent and what effect it's had, other than the number of unhoused people has continued to climb.
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @Chris Wilson:
Not trolling but just trying to provide some context about why states and other countries like CA have such stringent earth quake codes that keep getting updated.
I will never really understand the power of a Cat4 or Cat5 hurricane until I experience one. I have been in a 6.8 and 6.9 earthquake in WA and CA respectively. The 6.8 was some 65 miles south of me, I was on the 2nd floor of an office building that shook so hard for a minute that people were having problems staying standing up. A 7.0 releases some 32 times the amount of energy as the atomic bomb used on Hiroshima.
I am fully aware and well versed.
I have been a Building Contractor for over 30yrs. Master Journey Carpenter, Journey Mason, Journey HVAC. My last remodeling co. was a specialty Design Build firm. I had been scouted more times than I can recount to come to CA to apply my skills because the standards I came up in exceed that of CA and most places.
Building for seismic zones is actually not all that difficult. Wind and water, those are tricky ones, especially wind. Wind is an exerted force in many more ways than just the direct most think of. And hydraulic is a force that's very extreme.
Point is, the predominant production method of housing in the US is rather lack luster. The framing lumber popularly used is pathetic. And there is a lot of superior options out there in both product and methodology.
If you want a good CA home, do timber balloon frame, mortise and tenon joinery with masonry facade. Slate roof or even Spanish tile. Now you have seismic resilient with fire preventative.
Rockwool insulation...... I mean, your doing $1m+ for a property, why not get one built like it's a $1m+ home????
No, I'm hearing reports of shake roofs being predominant in a FIRE ZONE.... I'm sorry but anyone doing that is literally begging for it.
You tempt the Devil, bad things happen.
Quote from @Ken M.:
Hmm, me thinks a strong case can be made for "confirmation bias" here. "Since I invest here, there must not be any problems". ;-)Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Jonathan Small:
You've raised some valid concerns about California, and it's true that the state faces significant challenges. However, dismissing it entirely based on these issues overlooks several factors that continue to attract people and investment:
-
Diverse Economy: California boasts a massive and diverse economy, far beyond just Hollywood. It's a global leader in technology (Silicon Valley), agriculture (Central Valley), international trade (ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach), and tourism. This economic strength creates job opportunities and attracts talent from around the world.
-
Innovation and Entrepreneurship: California has a deeply ingrained culture of innovation and entrepreneurship. It's a hub for startups, venture capital, and cutting-edge research. This attracts ambitious individuals seeking to build the next big thing.
-
World-Class Universities: California is home to some of the world's most prestigious universities, including Stanford, UC Berkeley, UCLA, and Caltech. These institutions attract top students and faculty, contributing to the state's intellectual capital and driving innovation.
-
Natural Beauty and Diversity: While you mentioned the weather (which is undeniably a major draw for many), California's natural beauty extends far beyond sunny beaches. It encompasses diverse landscapes, including mountains (Sierra Nevada), forests (Redwoods), deserts (Death Valley), and national parks (Yosemite, Sequoia). This offers a wide range of outdoor activities and recreational opportunities.
-
Cultural Hubs: Cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco are major cultural centers, offering world-class museums, theaters, music venues, and diverse culinary scenes. They attract artists, creatives, and people who appreciate a vibrant urban lifestyle.
-
Real Estate Appreciation (Historically): @Dan H. points this out with his bathroom addition. While recent years have presented challenges, California real estate has historically seen significant appreciation, particularly in desirable coastal areas. This has made it an attractive investment for some, though high prices and increasing interest rates are currently impacting affordability.
Addressing your specific points:
- High Taxes: Yes, California has high taxes, particularly income tax. However, many high-income earners are willing to pay these taxes for the perceived benefits of living and working in California, such as access to opportunities, infrastructure, and services.
- Crime and Homelessness: These are serious issues in some parts of California, particularly in major cities. However, it's important to avoid generalizations. Crime rates vary significantly by neighborhood and city. While the homelessness crisis is a complex problem, it's not unique to California and is being addressed through various initiatives.
In summary: While California has its problems, it's not a simple case of "everything else sucks." The state's economic dynamism, natural beauty, cultural attractions, and educational institutions continue to draw people and investment. Whether these factors outweigh the challenges is a personal decision.
San diego, los angeles, and san Francisco violent crime rate is low compared to most large cities outside california. The 3 of them are below Cincinnati, cleveland, and toledo.
The lowest city on the list on wikipedia for violent crime is irvine, CA
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities...
Any violent crime is too high but i travel a bit. I feel far safer in the roughest parts of San Diego than i do in many large cities outside CA.
People seldom look at actual crime numbers. What they see is what their media presents to them. A crime in a low crime area may be media worthy but the same crime in a high crime area may be just another day.
in my neighborhood (poway), kids playing doorbell ditch or riding 3 on an electric bike warrants posting on social media and dozens of comments (no exaggeration). Must be nice that those “crimes” deserve so much attention.It is my belief that most RE investors are best served initially investing near their home. After they have some experience they can decide if other markets are likely to suit them better. I believe this is true for high price san Francisco and lower priced detroit and most markets in between.
Best wishes
San Diego, Los Angeles, and San Francisco having a lower violent crime rate than Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Toledo is not an accomplishment by any means. You are comparing 3 cities where you pay one of the highest premiums in the USA to live to 3 of the cheapest cities in the USA. This would be like me telling you my Escalade drives better than your KIA. Duhhhh, of course it does.
The post i was replying to implied a serious crime rate in CA cities. That is not true.
i also do not associate crime rate with cost of living and find it interesting that you do. If you look at the list, there is not a strong correlation between price and violent crime rate but more important, the large california cities are lower than most large cities in other states. The stats seem to indicate there is not a violent crime issue in large CA cities that some people believe exists. They have that belief in large part due to media sensationalizing certain crimes. The violent crime stats tell a different story.
best wishesWhat kind of person doesn't associate crime rate with cost of living? Of course one would and should assume that the cost of a property in a "safe neighborhood" would be more than the cost of a similar property in a "dangerous neighborhood." That's common sense.
I agree on a neighborhood basis. In general higher cost neighborhoods are safer than lower cost neighborhoods. Howevr, look at the stats on a city basis. There are LCOL cities with low crime rates and HCOL cities with high crime rates. There is not a tight coupling between price and violent crime rates. for example denton texas has one of the lowest violent crime rates. I highly suspect few people consider it a HCOL city. As indicated the correlation of LCOL cities having high crime rates and HCOL cities having low crime rates appears to not be strong.
Ca large cities have lower violent crime rates than many cities in other states that are a similar size.
California has the highest rate of investor homes in the nation because of the returns that can be achieved. There is nothing that trumps the return on why it has so many investor owned homes. Great appreciation, great cash flow on long holds, great value add opportunities, good tenants in most areas (my city delinquency and eviction rates are near the lowest in the country). There are lots of ways to make money in CA real estate for those that know what they are doing.
However, i recommend newbies start in or close to their home market. They need to identify the possibilities in their market. After that if they believe CA is the right market for them, they can join the plethora of investors that invest from all over the world in CA RE.
good luckLet’s look at my claims:
- there is not a strong correlation between safety and cost of living of the city. Not sure how that is biased, but I also provided the link and an example of one of the safer cities on the list not having a high cost of living.
- California has highest investor ownership rate and I provided the link to the source.- California has higher rate of return for the large coastal cities matches the stats case Shiller used to provide for total residential return for this century. The 3 top cities where all coastal CA cities but CA cities made up a majority of top 10 cities on the list with my market at number 3 for total return for this century. I will challenge you to find a single reputable source that does not show San Diego to have achieved outstanding long term return.
- I posted a recent rehab that I added half a bathroom out of existing space and the comps showed that half bathroom added $50k of value. Good luck getting such significant value add in a low cost market. This was in a property where the psf is over $1k.
- I pointed out that my market (San Diego) has one of the lowest eviction and delinquent rates in the country. I challenge you to find a single reputable source that shows otherwise.I then advocated for all newbies start close to their home market.
I stand by my remarks and challenge you to show one statement to not be factual. Facts, no need for confirmation bias. In addition, I do not need to make more money so I am not needing to push CA RE. Not a realtor, not a mortgage broker, not selling any mentorships (my protégés do not pay but are a very limited group). I do not need to push CA RE and have little to gain which places me in a different category than many of the people who have posted on this thread including the OP who is a realtor, property manager, and sells mentoring (at what appears a reasonable price) in his Ohio markets.
-
- Investor · Get yourself trained before doing something inadvisable. · Member since 2024 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Ken M.:
Hmm, me thinks a strong case can be made for "confirmation bias" here. "Since I invest here, there must not be any problems". ;-)Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Jonathan Small:
You've raised some valid concerns about California, and it's true that the state faces significant challenges. However, dismissing it entirely based on these issues overlooks several factors that continue to attract people and investment:
-
Diverse Economy: California boasts a massive and diverse economy, far beyond just Hollywood. It's a global leader in technology (Silicon Valley), agriculture (Central Valley), international trade (ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach), and tourism. This economic strength creates job opportunities and attracts talent from around the world.
-
Innovation and Entrepreneurship: California has a deeply ingrained culture of innovation and entrepreneurship. It's a hub for startups, venture capital, and cutting-edge research. This attracts ambitious individuals seeking to build the next big thing.
-
World-Class Universities: California is home to some of the world's most prestigious universities, including Stanford, UC Berkeley, UCLA, and Caltech. These institutions attract top students and faculty, contributing to the state's intellectual capital and driving innovation.
-
Natural Beauty and Diversity: While you mentioned the weather (which is undeniably a major draw for many), California's natural beauty extends far beyond sunny beaches. It encompasses diverse landscapes, including mountains (Sierra Nevada), forests (Redwoods), deserts (Death Valley), and national parks (Yosemite, Sequoia). This offers a wide range of outdoor activities and recreational opportunities.
-
Cultural Hubs: Cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco are major cultural centers, offering world-class museums, theaters, music venues, and diverse culinary scenes. They attract artists, creatives, and people who appreciate a vibrant urban lifestyle.
-
Real Estate Appreciation (Historically): @Dan H. points this out with his bathroom addition. While recent years have presented challenges, California real estate has historically seen significant appreciation, particularly in desirable coastal areas. This has made it an attractive investment for some, though high prices and increasing interest rates are currently impacting affordability.
Addressing your specific points:
- High Taxes: Yes, California has high taxes, particularly income tax. However, many high-income earners are willing to pay these taxes for the perceived benefits of living and working in California, such as access to opportunities, infrastructure, and services.
- Crime and Homelessness: These are serious issues in some parts of California, particularly in major cities. However, it's important to avoid generalizations. Crime rates vary significantly by neighborhood and city. While the homelessness crisis is a complex problem, it's not unique to California and is being addressed through various initiatives.
In summary: While California has its problems, it's not a simple case of "everything else sucks." The state's economic dynamism, natural beauty, cultural attractions, and educational institutions continue to draw people and investment. Whether these factors outweigh the challenges is a personal decision.
San diego, los angeles, and san Francisco violent crime rate is low compared to most large cities outside california. The 3 of them are below Cincinnati, cleveland, and toledo.
The lowest city on the list on wikipedia for violent crime is irvine, CA
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities...
Any violent crime is too high but i travel a bit. I feel far safer in the roughest parts of San Diego than i do in many large cities outside CA.
People seldom look at actual crime numbers. What they see is what their media presents to them. A crime in a low crime area may be media worthy but the same crime in a high crime area may be just another day.
in my neighborhood (poway), kids playing doorbell ditch or riding 3 on an electric bike warrants posting on social media and dozens of comments (no exaggeration). Must be nice that those “crimes” deserve so much attention.It is my belief that most RE investors are best served initially investing near their home. After they have some experience they can decide if other markets are likely to suit them better. I believe this is true for high price san Francisco and lower priced detroit and most markets in between.
Best wishes
San Diego, Los Angeles, and San Francisco having a lower violent crime rate than Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Toledo is not an accomplishment by any means. You are comparing 3 cities where you pay one of the highest premiums in the USA to live to 3 of the cheapest cities in the USA. This would be like me telling you my Escalade drives better than your KIA. Duhhhh, of course it does.
The post i was replying to implied a serious crime rate in CA cities. That is not true.
i also do not associate crime rate with cost of living and find it interesting that you do. If you look at the list, there is not a strong correlation between price and violent crime rate but more important, the large california cities are lower than most large cities in other states. The stats seem to indicate there is not a violent crime issue in large CA cities that some people believe exists. They have that belief in large part due to media sensationalizing certain crimes. The violent crime stats tell a different story.
best wishesWhat kind of person doesn't associate crime rate with cost of living? Of course one would and should assume that the cost of a property in a "safe neighborhood" would be more than the cost of a similar property in a "dangerous neighborhood." That's common sense.
I agree on a neighborhood basis. In general higher cost neighborhoods are safer than lower cost neighborhoods. Howevr, look at the stats on a city basis. There are LCOL cities with low crime rates and HCOL cities with high crime rates. There is not a tight coupling between price and violent crime rates. for example denton texas has one of the lowest violent crime rates. I highly suspect few people consider it a HCOL city. As indicated the correlation of LCOL cities having high crime rates and HCOL cities having low crime rates appears to not be strong.
Ca large cities have lower violent crime rates than many cities in other states that are a similar size.
California has the highest rate of investor homes in the nation because of the returns that can be achieved. There is nothing that trumps the return on why it has so many investor owned homes. Great appreciation, great cash flow on long holds, great value add opportunities, good tenants in most areas (my city delinquency and eviction rates are near the lowest in the country). There are lots of ways to make money in CA real estate for those that know what they are doing.
However, i recommend newbies start in or close to their home market. They need to identify the possibilities in their market. After that if they believe CA is the right market for them, they can join the plethora of investors that invest from all over the world in CA RE.
good luckLet’s look at my claims:
- there is not a strong correlation between safety and cost of living of the city. Not sure how that is biased, but I also provided the link and an example of one of the safer cities on the list not having a high cost of living.
- California has highest investor ownership rate and I provided the link to the source.- California has higher rate of return for the large coastal cities matches the stats case Shiller used to provide for total residential return for this century. The 3 top cities where all coastal CA cities but CA cities made up a majority of top 10 cities on the list with my market at number 3 for total return for this century. I will challenge you to find a single reputable source that does not show San Diego to have achieved outstanding long term return.
- I posted a recent rehab that I added half a bathroom out of existing space and the comps showed that half bathroom added $50k of value. Good luck getting such significant value add in a low cost market. This was in a property where the psf is over $1k.
- I pointed out that my market (San Diego) has one of the lowest eviction and delinquent rates in the country. I challenge you to find a single reputable source that shows otherwise.I then advocated for all newbies start close to their home market.
I stand by my remarks and challenge you to show one statement to not be factual. Facts, no need for confirmation bias. In addition, I do not need to make more money so I am not needing to push CA RE. Not a realtor, not a mortgage broker, not selling any mentorships (my protégés do not pay but are a very limited group). I do not need to push CA RE and have little to gain which places me in a different category than many of the people who have posted on this thread including the OP who is a realtor, property manager, and sells mentoring (at what appears a reasonable price) in his Ohio markets.
.
I simply notice that L.A. is burning because the mayor cut fire support by $17 million dollars, she wanted to cut it more. It's fire season and she fled the state. The fire hydrants don't work, the "water lady" who gets paid $750,000 a year to turn the tap on didn't do that, and on and on and on. (I feel sorry for those firemen trying to handle the chaos, they weren't told by the reservoir people they had drained the water) The money was diverted to DEI programs of which these characters directly benefited. Just watching the news.
That does not build confidence in investing in an area no matter how many friendly seals bark at you.
Do L.A. and California lose carbon credits for all the noxious smoke? (I know, San Diego is considerably south of L.A., been there, done that, nice place, but to most people in the U.S. and the world, L.A. / San Diego distinction is lost on them.
Now, if I was an investor in California, would things like L.A. fires, landslides, earth quakes, taxes, canyon fires, traffic, eviction moratoriums, etc worry me? You betcha.
I spend (not so sure how much now going forward) a fair amount of time from Santa Barbara to Laguna Beach. I love the ocean. Rarely is the beach crowded though, for such a large population. How many people pay for a gym membership that they never use. Same thing. High taxes, high rate of crime. Some violent, some not, still too much crime no matter what goes on in Detroit, Baltimore, D,C., Philadelphia and so on. Just because they have more problems doesn't make California desirable. That's called a straw man argument.
My only question is if property taxes are going to go up for the people of Pacific Palisades to cover the damage the People caused to the city. Strike, that, the damage the city caused to the people. ;-) But, the people voted for them again & again, didn't they? At some point, even the worst carpenter stops hitting his thumb on purpose, so he can experience how much better it feels when he stops.
Frankly I'm glad guys like you choose to invest where you do instead of adding yet more competition to where I invest. No harm, no foul. -
Quote from @Ken M.:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Ken M.:
Hmm, me thinks a strong case can be made for "confirmation bias" here. "Since I invest here, there must not be any problems". ;-)Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Jonathan Small:
You've raised some valid concerns about California, and it's true that the state faces significant challenges. However, dismissing it entirely based on these issues overlooks several factors that continue to attract people and investment:
-
Diverse Economy: California boasts a massive and diverse economy, far beyond just Hollywood. It's a global leader in technology (Silicon Valley), agriculture (Central Valley), international trade (ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach), and tourism. This economic strength creates job opportunities and attracts talent from around the world.
-
Innovation and Entrepreneurship: California has a deeply ingrained culture of innovation and entrepreneurship. It's a hub for startups, venture capital, and cutting-edge research. This attracts ambitious individuals seeking to build the next big thing.
-
World-Class Universities: California is home to some of the world's most prestigious universities, including Stanford, UC Berkeley, UCLA, and Caltech. These institutions attract top students and faculty, contributing to the state's intellectual capital and driving innovation.
-
Natural Beauty and Diversity: While you mentioned the weather (which is undeniably a major draw for many), California's natural beauty extends far beyond sunny beaches. It encompasses diverse landscapes, including mountains (Sierra Nevada), forests (Redwoods), deserts (Death Valley), and national parks (Yosemite, Sequoia). This offers a wide range of outdoor activities and recreational opportunities.
-
Cultural Hubs: Cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco are major cultural centers, offering world-class museums, theaters, music venues, and diverse culinary scenes. They attract artists, creatives, and people who appreciate a vibrant urban lifestyle.
-
Real Estate Appreciation (Historically): @Dan H. points this out with his bathroom addition. While recent years have presented challenges, California real estate has historically seen significant appreciation, particularly in desirable coastal areas. This has made it an attractive investment for some, though high prices and increasing interest rates are currently impacting affordability.
Addressing your specific points:
- High Taxes: Yes, California has high taxes, particularly income tax. However, many high-income earners are willing to pay these taxes for the perceived benefits of living and working in California, such as access to opportunities, infrastructure, and services.
- Crime and Homelessness: These are serious issues in some parts of California, particularly in major cities. However, it's important to avoid generalizations. Crime rates vary significantly by neighborhood and city. While the homelessness crisis is a complex problem, it's not unique to California and is being addressed through various initiatives.
In summary: While California has its problems, it's not a simple case of "everything else sucks." The state's economic dynamism, natural beauty, cultural attractions, and educational institutions continue to draw people and investment. Whether these factors outweigh the challenges is a personal decision.
San diego, los angeles, and san Francisco violent crime rate is low compared to most large cities outside california. The 3 of them are below Cincinnati, cleveland, and toledo.
The lowest city on the list on wikipedia for violent crime is irvine, CA
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities...
Any violent crime is too high but i travel a bit. I feel far safer in the roughest parts of San Diego than i do in many large cities outside CA.
People seldom look at actual crime numbers. What they see is what their media presents to them. A crime in a low crime area may be media worthy but the same crime in a high crime area may be just another day.
in my neighborhood (poway), kids playing doorbell ditch or riding 3 on an electric bike warrants posting on social media and dozens of comments (no exaggeration). Must be nice that those “crimes” deserve so much attention.It is my belief that most RE investors are best served initially investing near their home. After they have some experience they can decide if other markets are likely to suit them better. I believe this is true for high price san Francisco and lower priced detroit and most markets in between.
Best wishes
San Diego, Los Angeles, and San Francisco having a lower violent crime rate than Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Toledo is not an accomplishment by any means. You are comparing 3 cities where you pay one of the highest premiums in the USA to live to 3 of the cheapest cities in the USA. This would be like me telling you my Escalade drives better than your KIA. Duhhhh, of course it does.
The post i was replying to implied a serious crime rate in CA cities. That is not true.
i also do not associate crime rate with cost of living and find it interesting that you do. If you look at the list, there is not a strong correlation between price and violent crime rate but more important, the large california cities are lower than most large cities in other states. The stats seem to indicate there is not a violent crime issue in large CA cities that some people believe exists. They have that belief in large part due to media sensationalizing certain crimes. The violent crime stats tell a different story.
best wishesWhat kind of person doesn't associate crime rate with cost of living? Of course one would and should assume that the cost of a property in a "safe neighborhood" would be more than the cost of a similar property in a "dangerous neighborhood." That's common sense.
I agree on a neighborhood basis. In general higher cost neighborhoods are safer than lower cost neighborhoods. Howevr, look at the stats on a city basis. There are LCOL cities with low crime rates and HCOL cities with high crime rates. There is not a tight coupling between price and violent crime rates. for example denton texas has one of the lowest violent crime rates. I highly suspect few people consider it a HCOL city. As indicated the correlation of LCOL cities having high crime rates and HCOL cities having low crime rates appears to not be strong.
Ca large cities have lower violent crime rates than many cities in other states that are a similar size.
California has the highest rate of investor homes in the nation because of the returns that can be achieved. There is nothing that trumps the return on why it has so many investor owned homes. Great appreciation, great cash flow on long holds, great value add opportunities, good tenants in most areas (my city delinquency and eviction rates are near the lowest in the country). There are lots of ways to make money in CA real estate for those that know what they are doing.
However, i recommend newbies start in or close to their home market. They need to identify the possibilities in their market. After that if they believe CA is the right market for them, they can join the plethora of investors that invest from all over the world in CA RE.
good luckLet’s look at my claims:
- there is not a strong correlation between safety and cost of living of the city. Not sure how that is biased, but I also provided the link and an example of one of the safer cities on the list not having a high cost of living.
- California has highest investor ownership rate and I provided the link to the source.- California has higher rate of return for the large coastal cities matches the stats case Shiller used to provide for total residential return for this century. The 3 top cities where all coastal CA cities but CA cities made up a majority of top 10 cities on the list with my market at number 3 for total return for this century. I will challenge you to find a single reputable source that does not show San Diego to have achieved outstanding long term return.
- I posted a recent rehab that I added half a bathroom out of existing space and the comps showed that half bathroom added $50k of value. Good luck getting such significant value add in a low cost market. This was in a property where the psf is over $1k.
- I pointed out that my market (San Diego) has one of the lowest eviction and delinquent rates in the country. I challenge you to find a single reputable source that shows otherwise.I then advocated for all newbies start close to their home market.
I stand by my remarks and challenge you to show one statement to not be factual. Facts, no need for confirmation bias. In addition, I do not need to make more money so I am not needing to push CA RE. Not a realtor, not a mortgage broker, not selling any mentorships (my protégés do not pay but are a very limited group). I do not need to push CA RE and have little to gain which places me in a different category than many of the people who have posted on this thread including the OP who is a realtor, property manager, and sells mentoring (at what appears a reasonable price) in his Ohio markets.
.
I simply notice that L.A. is burning because the mayor cut fire support by $17 million dollars, she wanted to cut it more. It's fire season and she fled the state. The fire hydrants don't work, the "water lady" who gets paid $750,000 a year to turn the tap on didn't do that, and on and on and on. (I feel sorry for those firemen trying to handle the chaos, they weren't told by the reservoir people they had drained the water) The money was diverted to DEI programs of which these characters directly benefited. Just watching the news.
That does not build confidence in investing in an area no matter how many friendly seals bark at you.
Do L.A. and California lose carbon credits for all the noxious smoke? (I know, San Diego is considerably south of L.A., been there, done that, nice place, but to most people in the U.S. and the world, L.A. / San Diego distinction is lost on them.
Now, if I was an investor in California, would things like L.A. fires, landslides, earth quakes, taxes, canyon fires, traffic, eviction moratoriums, etc worry me? You betcha.
I spend (not so sure how much now going forward) a fair amount of time from Santa Barbara to Laguna Beach. I love the ocean. Rarely is the beach crowded though, for such a large population. How many people pay for a gym membership that they never use. Same thing. High taxes, high rate of crime. Some violent, some not, still too much crime no matter what goes on in Detroit, Baltimore, D,C., Philadelphia and so on. Just because they have more problems doesn't make California desirable. That's called a straw man argument.
My only question is if property taxes are going to go up for the people of Pacific Palisades to cover the damage the People caused to the city. Strike, that, the damage the city caused to the people. ;-) But, the people voted for them again & again, didn't they? At some point, even the worst carpenter stops hitting his thumb on purpose, so he can experience how much better it feels when he stops.
Frankly I'm glad guys like you choose to invest where you do instead of adding yet more competition to where I invest. No harm, no foul.Fire victims maintain their property tax basis by law after rebuild.
not sure what any of the things you mentioned trumps return.
I have offer accepted on a luxury cabin in a high fire risk area. The insurance is high. If it burns down it will be a pain in the *** to deal with the consequence. However it still comes down to return and desired area. The mountains (sierras) this cabin is in exceeds what can be found in virtually every state.
My little beach STRs have appreciated enough that most people,e could retire on the appreciation alone from either unit. My best revenue year was about 50% of the purchase price.My most recent purchase is up $1m above my costs in 3 years.
It’s the return. That is why people invest in CA RE and more homes are investor owned in CA than any other state. Do you think that happens without years of awesome returns?
We have owned out of state but currently all our RE is in CA because of the outstanding return.
-
- 1yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
Quote from @Steve K.:
A) I had to fact check this after your last statement about the CA population declining ended up being false due to only accounting for our-migration and not including immigration,
B) The actual estimate is that less than 25% of the nations homeless people live in California, not 51%.A) Immigration by foreign individuals is not counted (generally) because it is not a definitive marker. As you probably know, California includes all foreign immigration - both legal and illegal to boost the numbers. What does counting hordes of illegals tell us? Other than that we're all F'ed. Even legal immigrants are not reliable numbers because they will/may be short-term residents and also do not have the same benefits or detriments of US citizens. Using state-to-state numbers is much more accurate as far as telling us what is going on with our country and states.We need to know where US CITIZENS want to live and why. It's just common sense. (BTW - The NET loss was about 700 people per day.)
Newsweek - More Americans left California between 2023 and 2024 than any other state across the country, according to new data released by the Census Bureau.
The Golden State lost a total of 239,575 residents to other states, the largest net domestic migration loss in the country over the past year.
B) So you're going to combine unsheltered people and basic homeless? They are different according to the homeless community. https://invisiblepeople.tv/homeless-houseless-unhoused-or-un...
"Unsheltered is a more general term that is only sometimes meant as a synonym for homeless. In everyday use, it could just mean “exposed to the elements” like an unsheltered bus stop. When it comes to homelessness, it usually refers to someone who is living in an area that is not meant for human habitation, like a car, sidewalk, or park. In that sense, it would exclude homeless people who are living in shelters or other temporary housing."So when you add up the 'homeless' and the 'unsheltered' you actually do get 51%....
- 1yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Chris Wilson:
Not trolling but just trying to provide some context about why states and other countries like CA have such stringent earth quake codes that keep getting updated.
I will never really understand the power of a Cat4 or Cat5 hurricane until I experience one. I have been in a 6.8 and 6.9 earthquake in WA and CA respectively. The 6.8 was some 65 miles south of me, I was on the 2nd floor of an office building that shook so hard for a minute that people were having problems staying standing up. A 7.0 releases some 32 times the amount of energy as the atomic bomb used on Hiroshima.
I am fully aware and well versed.
I have been a Building Contractor for over 30yrs. Master Journey Carpenter, Journey Mason, Journey HVAC. My last remodeling co. was a specialty Design Build firm. I had been scouted more times than I can recount to come to CA to apply my skills because the standards I came up in exceed that of CA and most places.
Building for seismic zones is actually not all that difficult. Wind and water, those are tricky ones, especially wind. Wind is an exerted force in many more ways than just the direct most think of. And hydraulic is a force that's very extreme.
Point is, the predominant production method of housing in the US is rather lack luster. The framing lumber popularly used is pathetic. And there is a lot of superior options out there in both product and methodology.
If you want a good CA home, do timber balloon frame, mortise and tenon joinery with masonry facade. Slate roof or even Spanish tile. Now you have seismic resilient with fire preventative.
Rockwool insulation...... I mean, your doing $1m+ for a property, why not get one built like it's a $1m+ home????
No, I'm hearing reports of shake roofs being predominant in a FIRE ZONE.... I'm sorry but anyone doing that is literally begging for it.
You tempt the Devil, bad things happen.
James shake roofs were the go to product back in the thats why there are so many in CA the material came from the Cedar industry in Oregon and Washington.. My bizz partner when I was doing timber in the 90s prior to us doing our thing.. he had a Cedar shake mill.. things changed in San Jose area tile roofs are very prevalent. Its all about the heavy brush with Manzanita and other dense brush full of oils that burn so hot and fast.. thats why in many areas in CA they have control burns.. And keep in mind the Indians used to burn this stuff hundreds of years ago as well - Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes1y
California is on fire and they don't have enough water to stop it.
California is the richest state in the USA.
California has 3,427 miles of Coastline.
___
___
Make it make sense.
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Chris Wilson:
Not trolling but just trying to provide some context about why states and other countries like CA have such stringent earth quake codes that keep getting updated.
I will never really understand the power of a Cat4 or Cat5 hurricane until I experience one. I have been in a 6.8 and 6.9 earthquake in WA and CA respectively. The 6.8 was some 65 miles south of me, I was on the 2nd floor of an office building that shook so hard for a minute that people were having problems staying standing up. A 7.0 releases some 32 times the amount of energy as the atomic bomb used on Hiroshima.
I am fully aware and well versed.
I have been a Building Contractor for over 30yrs. Master Journey Carpenter, Journey Mason, Journey HVAC. My last remodeling co. was a specialty Design Build firm. I had been scouted more times than I can recount to come to CA to apply my skills because the standards I came up in exceed that of CA and most places.
Building for seismic zones is actually not all that difficult. Wind and water, those are tricky ones, especially wind. Wind is an exerted force in many more ways than just the direct most think of. And hydraulic is a force that's very extreme.
Point is, the predominant production method of housing in the US is rather lack luster. The framing lumber popularly used is pathetic. And there is a lot of superior options out there in both product and methodology.
If you want a good CA home, do timber balloon frame, mortise and tenon joinery with masonry facade. Slate roof or even Spanish tile. Now you have seismic resilient with fire preventative.
Rockwool insulation...... I mean, your doing $1m+ for a property, why not get one built like it's a $1m+ home????
No, I'm hearing reports of shake roofs being predominant in a FIRE ZONE.... I'm sorry but anyone doing that is literally begging for it.
You tempt the Devil, bad things happen.
James shake roofs were the go to product back in the thats why there are so many in CA the material came from the Cedar industry in Oregon and Washington.. My bizz partner when I was doing timber in the 90s prior to us doing our thing.. he had a Cedar shake mill.. things changed in San Jose area tile roofs are very prevalent. Its all about the heavy brush with Manzanita and other dense brush full of oils that burn so hot and fast.. thats why in many areas in CA they have control burns.. And keep in mind the Indians used to burn this stuff hundreds of years ago as wellThat helps to make a lot more sense. The fire prevention policies were different, more aggressive, so far less imperative reasons to sway away from a then amply supplied and I imagine price adjusted material of shake vs fire resilient material.
I saw news other day of those winds and just clouds of embers and that, holly-cow with shake roof's, wow, that's literally an impossible fire to fight as it could jump homes and blocks in a blink, with every ember filled gust.
It drives me nuts seeing the lions share of blame being placed on weather in main stream media (talking as an aggregate whole not going to cherry pick individual ones of differing messaging) when I see a laundry list of obvious human caused contributing factors.
Because next thing, without a doubt, will be all about taking Federal funds to pay for all this. And that means YOU, me, WE paying the bill for what was in fair-share a CA person-made catastrophe via there idiotic actions.
FL can't do a dang thing to stop a hurricane, but they at least try to put in place mitigation items to lesson impact.
CA, stopping doing fire breaks because it messes with a mouse..... How's that mouse doing now? Crispy fried right....
Or not topping off reservoirs in advance of a known annual heightened fire risk season.
I am not saying it would have been 100% prevented if hadn't done these dumb actions, but with 100% certainty the scale of it all would have been different, lessor.
People died because of this, and thus there needs to be a criminal inquiry. Criminal negligence, that's a thing. And this, what I am hearing, wreaks of criminal negligence. Accountability must be demanded by Californians, and the nation as a whole.
But let me guess, Biden will issue pardons for entire CA political class...... Retroactive for any crimes known or unknown for the last however many years......
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @James Wise:
California is on fire and they don't have enough water to stop it.
California is the richest state in the USA.
California has 3,427 miles of Coastline.
___
___
Make it make sense.
I had a house fire as a kid, on an epic windy day. Rural, no fire hydrants.
They had pumper trucks at the river, and water trucks running back n fourth filling and refilling.
How do homes burn due to "no water" along the freaking ocean???????
So, they don't have water pumps??????
Makes 0 sense.
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes1y
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @James Wise:
California is on fire and they don't have enough water to stop it.
California is the richest state in the USA.
California has 3,427 miles of Coastline.
___
___
Make it make sense.
I had a house fire as a kid, on an epic windy day. Rural, no fire hydrants.
They had pumper trucks at the river, and water trucks running back n fourth filling and refilling.
How do homes burn due to "no water" along the freaking ocean???????
So, they don't have water pumps??????
Makes 0 sense.
In rural Ohio ponds are required every so many feet when fire hydrants aren't available.
- 1yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Chris Wilson:
Not trolling but just trying to provide some context about why states and other countries like CA have such stringent earth quake codes that keep getting updated.
I will never really understand the power of a Cat4 or Cat5 hurricane until I experience one. I have been in a 6.8 and 6.9 earthquake in WA and CA respectively. The 6.8 was some 65 miles south of me, I was on the 2nd floor of an office building that shook so hard for a minute that people were having problems staying standing up. A 7.0 releases some 32 times the amount of energy as the atomic bomb used on Hiroshima.
I am fully aware and well versed.
I have been a Building Contractor for over 30yrs. Master Journey Carpenter, Journey Mason, Journey HVAC. My last remodeling co. was a specialty Design Build firm. I had been scouted more times than I can recount to come to CA to apply my skills because the standards I came up in exceed that of CA and most places.
Building for seismic zones is actually not all that difficult. Wind and water, those are tricky ones, especially wind. Wind is an exerted force in many more ways than just the direct most think of. And hydraulic is a force that's very extreme.
Point is, the predominant production method of housing in the US is rather lack luster. The framing lumber popularly used is pathetic. And there is a lot of superior options out there in both product and methodology.
If you want a good CA home, do timber balloon frame, mortise and tenon joinery with masonry facade. Slate roof or even Spanish tile. Now you have seismic resilient with fire preventative.
Rockwool insulation...... I mean, your doing $1m+ for a property, why not get one built like it's a $1m+ home????
No, I'm hearing reports of shake roofs being predominant in a FIRE ZONE.... I'm sorry but anyone doing that is literally begging for it.
You tempt the Devil, bad things happen.
James shake roofs were the go to product back in the thats why there are so many in CA the material came from the Cedar industry in Oregon and Washington.. My bizz partner when I was doing timber in the 90s prior to us doing our thing.. he had a Cedar shake mill.. things changed in San Jose area tile roofs are very prevalent. Its all about the heavy brush with Manzanita and other dense brush full of oils that burn so hot and fast.. thats why in many areas in CA they have control burns.. And keep in mind the Indians used to burn this stuff hundreds of years ago as wellThat helps to make a lot more sense. The fire prevention policies were different, more aggressive, so far less imperative reasons to sway away from a then amply supplied and I imagine price adjusted material of shake vs fire resilient material.
I saw news other day of those winds and just clouds of embers and that, holly-cow with shake roof's, wow, that's literally an impossible fire to fight as it could jump homes and blocks in a blink, with every ember filled gust.
It drives me nuts seeing the lions share of blame being placed on weather in main stream media (talking as an aggregate whole not going to cherry pick individual ones of differing messaging) when I see a laundry list of obvious human caused contributing factors.
Because next thing, without a doubt, will be all about taking Federal funds to pay for all this. And that means YOU, me, WE paying the bill for what was in fair-share a CA person-made catastrophe via there idiotic actions.
FL can't do a dang thing to stop a hurricane, but they at least try to put in place mitigation items to lesson impact.
CA, stopping doing fire breaks because it messes with a mouse..... How's that mouse doing now? Crispy fried right....
Or not topping off reservoirs in advance of a known annual heightened fire risk season.
I am not saying it would have been 100% prevented if hadn't done these dumb actions, but with 100% certainty the scale of it all would have been different, lessor.
People died because of this, and thus there needs to be a criminal inquiry. Criminal negligence, that's a thing. And this, what I am hearing, wreaks of criminal negligence. Accountability must be demanded by Californians, and the nation as a whole.
But let me guess, Biden will issue pardons for entire CA political class...... Retroactive for any crimes known or unknown for the last however many years......
well typically middle of January is winter and not fire season so you have that .. Fire breaks work for sure I remember a big fire in Lake co. cA when I lived there and there were 4 to 5 dozer in a line doing fire breaks along ridge lines.. keep in mind though this is steep country so moving dozer through there is not that easy.. That fire in 1980 burnt 35,000 acres between ukiah CA and Lakeport Ca and only stopped when it got to the pear orchards in lake co.. there was not stopping it.. moved at about 10 to 20 miles per hour.. all over 8 hours.. until you see it in person you simply cant understand it..
Also keep in mind in LA most of those lots were created from 1900 to 1950s and well they are lots of record.. and were developed with the standards of the day.. Todays standards are far different as you know.. I deal with it in all the subdivisions I have built.. Fire department is the toughest one to deal with.. U need 1500 GPH at the hydrants.. no street can be longer than 600feet with out dual access.. If you cant meet GPH you need to sprinkler the houses so add 8 to 12k per track house to the build cost and oh by the way we need starter houses.. Etc etc. - Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
Quote from @Steve K.:
A) I had to fact check this after your last statement about the CA population declining ended up being false due to only accounting for our-migration and not including immigration,
B) The actual estimate is that less than 25% of the nations homeless people live in California, not 51%.A) Immigration by foreign individuals is not counted (generally) because it is not a definitive marker. As you probably know, California includes all foreign immigration - both legal and illegal to boost the numbers. What does counting hordes of illegals tell us? Other than that we're all F'ed. Even legal immigrants are not reliable numbers because they will/may be short-term residents and also do not have the same benefits or detriments of US citizens. Using state-to-state numbers is much more accurate as far as telling us what is going on with our country and states.We need to know where US CITIZENS want to live and why. It's just common sense. (BTW - The NET loss was about 700 people per day.)
Newsweek - More Americans left California between 2023 and 2024 than any other state across the country, according to new data released by the Census Bureau.
The Golden State lost a total of 239,575 residents to other states, the largest net domestic migration loss in the country over the past year.
B) So you're going to combine unsheltered people and basic homeless? They are different according to the homeless community. https://invisiblepeople.tv/homeless-houseless-unhoused-or-un...
"Unsheltered is a more general term that is only sometimes meant as a synonym for homeless. In everyday use, it could just mean “exposed to the elements” like an unsheltered bus stop. When it comes to homelessness, it usually refers to someone who is living in an area that is not meant for human habitation, like a car, sidewalk, or park. In that sense, it would exclude homeless people who are living in shelters or other temporary housing."So when you add up the 'homeless' and the 'unsheltered' you actually do get 51%....
Look, we can split hairs all day long and argue "well by this metric it looks...." blah blah blah.....
Here's the deal:
One Hundred and eight seven THOUSAND!!!!!!! Spin spin SPIN away, that's still a TON of people. That literally a major city of homeless.
To put this into context:
CA has more than 20X the homeless MN has.
And CA has only 6.8X the population of MN.......
Facts.......
So yes, to me, CA has a SIGNIFICANT amount more of homeless than what I am used to seeing, because IT DOES.
And before we cry "weather, but MN is cold weather in winter":
California has 6.24X the homeless of Florida.
Yet CA only has 1.7X the population of FL.
Fruit for thought.
- 1yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @James Wise:
California is on fire and they don't have enough water to stop it.
California is the richest state in the USA.
California has 3,427 miles of Coastline.
___
___
Make it make sense.
I had a house fire as a kid, on an epic windy day. Rural, no fire hydrants.
They had pumper trucks at the river, and water trucks running back n fourth filling and refilling.
How do homes burn due to "no water" along the freaking ocean???????
So, they don't have water pumps??????
Makes 0 sense.
In rural Ohio ponds are required every so many feet when fire hydrants aren't available.
good luck building ponds on the west coast..you need water rights for those .. In Oregon we do have to build retention ponds for water run off to save the salmon and Steelhead.. which is OK by me since I enjoy fishing for both.. but again add 50 to 200k per project and then build starter housing.. ??? - Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Chris Wilson:
Not trolling but just trying to provide some context about why states and other countries like CA have such stringent earth quake codes that keep getting updated.
I will never really understand the power of a Cat4 or Cat5 hurricane until I experience one. I have been in a 6.8 and 6.9 earthquake in WA and CA respectively. The 6.8 was some 65 miles south of me, I was on the 2nd floor of an office building that shook so hard for a minute that people were having problems staying standing up. A 7.0 releases some 32 times the amount of energy as the atomic bomb used on Hiroshima.
I am fully aware and well versed.
I have been a Building Contractor for over 30yrs. Master Journey Carpenter, Journey Mason, Journey HVAC. My last remodeling co. was a specialty Design Build firm. I had been scouted more times than I can recount to come to CA to apply my skills because the standards I came up in exceed that of CA and most places.
Building for seismic zones is actually not all that difficult. Wind and water, those are tricky ones, especially wind. Wind is an exerted force in many more ways than just the direct most think of. And hydraulic is a force that's very extreme.
Point is, the predominant production method of housing in the US is rather lack luster. The framing lumber popularly used is pathetic. And there is a lot of superior options out there in both product and methodology.
If you want a good CA home, do timber balloon frame, mortise and tenon joinery with masonry facade. Slate roof or even Spanish tile. Now you have seismic resilient with fire preventative.
Rockwool insulation...... I mean, your doing $1m+ for a property, why not get one built like it's a $1m+ home????
No, I'm hearing reports of shake roofs being predominant in a FIRE ZONE.... I'm sorry but anyone doing that is literally begging for it.
You tempt the Devil, bad things happen.
James shake roofs were the go to product back in the thats why there are so many in CA the material came from the Cedar industry in Oregon and Washington.. My bizz partner when I was doing timber in the 90s prior to us doing our thing.. he had a Cedar shake mill.. things changed in San Jose area tile roofs are very prevalent. Its all about the heavy brush with Manzanita and other dense brush full of oils that burn so hot and fast.. thats why in many areas in CA they have control burns.. And keep in mind the Indians used to burn this stuff hundreds of years ago as wellThat helps to make a lot more sense. The fire prevention policies were different, more aggressive, so far less imperative reasons to sway away from a then amply supplied and I imagine price adjusted material of shake vs fire resilient material.
I saw news other day of those winds and just clouds of embers and that, holly-cow with shake roof's, wow, that's literally an impossible fire to fight as it could jump homes and blocks in a blink, with every ember filled gust.
It drives me nuts seeing the lions share of blame being placed on weather in main stream media (talking as an aggregate whole not going to cherry pick individual ones of differing messaging) when I see a laundry list of obvious human caused contributing factors.
Because next thing, without a doubt, will be all about taking Federal funds to pay for all this. And that means YOU, me, WE paying the bill for what was in fair-share a CA person-made catastrophe via there idiotic actions.
FL can't do a dang thing to stop a hurricane, but they at least try to put in place mitigation items to lesson impact.
CA, stopping doing fire breaks because it messes with a mouse..... How's that mouse doing now? Crispy fried right....
Or not topping off reservoirs in advance of a known annual heightened fire risk season.
I am not saying it would have been 100% prevented if hadn't done these dumb actions, but with 100% certainty the scale of it all would have been different, lessor.
People died because of this, and thus there needs to be a criminal inquiry. Criminal negligence, that's a thing. And this, what I am hearing, wreaks of criminal negligence. Accountability must be demanded by Californians, and the nation as a whole.
But let me guess, Biden will issue pardons for entire CA political class...... Retroactive for any crimes known or unknown for the last however many years......
well typically middle of January is winter and not fire season so you have that .. Fire breaks work for sure I remember a big fire in Lake co. cA when I lived there and there were 4 to 5 dozer in a line doing fire breaks along ridge lines.. keep in mind though this is steep country so moving dozer through there is not that easy.. That fire in 1980 burnt 35,000 acres between ukiah CA and Lakeport Ca and only stopped when it got to the pear orchards in lake co.. there was not stopping it.. moved at about 10 to 20 miles per hour.. all over 8 hours.. until you see it in person you simply cant understand it..
Also keep in mind in LA most of those lots were created from 1900 to 1950s and well they are lots of record.. and were developed with the standards of the day.. Todays standards are far different as you know.. I deal with it in all the subdivisions I have built.. Fire department is the toughest one to deal with.. U need 1500 GPH at the hydrants.. no street can be longer than 600feet with out dual access.. If you cant meet GPH you need to sprinkler the houses so add 8 to 12k per track house to the build cost and oh by the way we need starter houses.. Etc etc.I always heard the fire risk season was tied to Santa Ana winds, Sept. - May..
- 1yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Chris Wilson:
Not trolling but just trying to provide some context about why states and other countries like CA have such stringent earth quake codes that keep getting updated.
I will never really understand the power of a Cat4 or Cat5 hurricane until I experience one. I have been in a 6.8 and 6.9 earthquake in WA and CA respectively. The 6.8 was some 65 miles south of me, I was on the 2nd floor of an office building that shook so hard for a minute that people were having problems staying standing up. A 7.0 releases some 32 times the amount of energy as the atomic bomb used on Hiroshima.
I am fully aware and well versed.
I have been a Building Contractor for over 30yrs. Master Journey Carpenter, Journey Mason, Journey HVAC. My last remodeling co. was a specialty Design Build firm. I had been scouted more times than I can recount to come to CA to apply my skills because the standards I came up in exceed that of CA and most places.
Building for seismic zones is actually not all that difficult. Wind and water, those are tricky ones, especially wind. Wind is an exerted force in many more ways than just the direct most think of. And hydraulic is a force that's very extreme.
Point is, the predominant production method of housing in the US is rather lack luster. The framing lumber popularly used is pathetic. And there is a lot of superior options out there in both product and methodology.
If you want a good CA home, do timber balloon frame, mortise and tenon joinery with masonry facade. Slate roof or even Spanish tile. Now you have seismic resilient with fire preventative.
Rockwool insulation...... I mean, your doing $1m+ for a property, why not get one built like it's a $1m+ home????
No, I'm hearing reports of shake roofs being predominant in a FIRE ZONE.... I'm sorry but anyone doing that is literally begging for it.
You tempt the Devil, bad things happen.
James shake roofs were the go to product back in the thats why there are so many in CA the material came from the Cedar industry in Oregon and Washington.. My bizz partner when I was doing timber in the 90s prior to us doing our thing.. he had a Cedar shake mill.. things changed in San Jose area tile roofs are very prevalent. Its all about the heavy brush with Manzanita and other dense brush full of oils that burn so hot and fast.. thats why in many areas in CA they have control burns.. And keep in mind the Indians used to burn this stuff hundreds of years ago as wellThat helps to make a lot more sense. The fire prevention policies were different, more aggressive, so far less imperative reasons to sway away from a then amply supplied and I imagine price adjusted material of shake vs fire resilient material.
I saw news other day of those winds and just clouds of embers and that, holly-cow with shake roof's, wow, that's literally an impossible fire to fight as it could jump homes and blocks in a blink, with every ember filled gust.
It drives me nuts seeing the lions share of blame being placed on weather in main stream media (talking as an aggregate whole not going to cherry pick individual ones of differing messaging) when I see a laundry list of obvious human caused contributing factors.
Because next thing, without a doubt, will be all about taking Federal funds to pay for all this. And that means YOU, me, WE paying the bill for what was in fair-share a CA person-made catastrophe via there idiotic actions.
FL can't do a dang thing to stop a hurricane, but they at least try to put in place mitigation items to lesson impact.
CA, stopping doing fire breaks because it messes with a mouse..... How's that mouse doing now? Crispy fried right....
Or not topping off reservoirs in advance of a known annual heightened fire risk season.
I am not saying it would have been 100% prevented if hadn't done these dumb actions, but with 100% certainty the scale of it all would have been different, lessor.
People died because of this, and thus there needs to be a criminal inquiry. Criminal negligence, that's a thing. And this, what I am hearing, wreaks of criminal negligence. Accountability must be demanded by Californians, and the nation as a whole.
But let me guess, Biden will issue pardons for entire CA political class...... Retroactive for any crimes known or unknown for the last however many years......
well typically middle of January is winter and not fire season so you have that .. Fire breaks work for sure I remember a big fire in Lake co. cA when I lived there and there were 4 to 5 dozer in a line doing fire breaks along ridge lines.. keep in mind though this is steep country so moving dozer through there is not that easy.. That fire in 1980 burnt 35,000 acres between ukiah CA and Lakeport Ca and only stopped when it got to the pear orchards in lake co.. there was not stopping it.. moved at about 10 to 20 miles per hour.. all over 8 hours.. until you see it in person you simply cant understand it..
Also keep in mind in LA most of those lots were created from 1900 to 1950s and well they are lots of record.. and were developed with the standards of the day.. Todays standards are far different as you know.. I deal with it in all the subdivisions I have built.. Fire department is the toughest one to deal with.. U need 1500 GPH at the hydrants.. no street can be longer than 600feet with out dual access.. If you cant meet GPH you need to sprinkler the houses so add 8 to 12k per track house to the build cost and oh by the way we need starter houses.. Etc etc.I always heard the fire risk season was tied to Santa Ana winds, Sept. - May..
I am sure your right on the winds.. I spent a winter in Palm Springs and brought my plane down there and you talk about some wicked winds .. I got caught in a mtn wave on one trip from Napa to Thermal Ca and we had 2k ft ups and downs un commanded you just ride the wave like a surfer and on the back side of the wave U pick up some pretty impressive ground speed. - Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @James Wise:
California is on fire and they don't have enough water to stop it.
California is the richest state in the USA.
California has 3,427 miles of Coastline.
___
___
Make it make sense.
I had a house fire as a kid, on an epic windy day. Rural, no fire hydrants.
They had pumper trucks at the river, and water trucks running back n fourth filling and refilling.
How do homes burn due to "no water" along the freaking ocean???????
So, they don't have water pumps??????
Makes 0 sense.
In rural Ohio ponds are required every so many feet when fire hydrants aren't available.
Luckily in MN we have those by nature. Lake, pond, river literally everywhere.
It's called land of 10,000 lakes but MN has closer to 11,500 and that just lakes of 10acres+. If we go bodies of water it's closer to 48,000.
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Chris Wilson:
Not trolling but just trying to provide some context about why states and other countries like CA have such stringent earth quake codes that keep getting updated.
I will never really understand the power of a Cat4 or Cat5 hurricane until I experience one. I have been in a 6.8 and 6.9 earthquake in WA and CA respectively. The 6.8 was some 65 miles south of me, I was on the 2nd floor of an office building that shook so hard for a minute that people were having problems staying standing up. A 7.0 releases some 32 times the amount of energy as the atomic bomb used on Hiroshima.
I am fully aware and well versed.
I have been a Building Contractor for over 30yrs. Master Journey Carpenter, Journey Mason, Journey HVAC. My last remodeling co. was a specialty Design Build firm. I had been scouted more times than I can recount to come to CA to apply my skills because the standards I came up in exceed that of CA and most places.
Building for seismic zones is actually not all that difficult. Wind and water, those are tricky ones, especially wind. Wind is an exerted force in many more ways than just the direct most think of. And hydraulic is a force that's very extreme.
Point is, the predominant production method of housing in the US is rather lack luster. The framing lumber popularly used is pathetic. And there is a lot of superior options out there in both product and methodology.
If you want a good CA home, do timber balloon frame, mortise and tenon joinery with masonry facade. Slate roof or even Spanish tile. Now you have seismic resilient with fire preventative.
Rockwool insulation...... I mean, your doing $1m+ for a property, why not get one built like it's a $1m+ home????
No, I'm hearing reports of shake roofs being predominant in a FIRE ZONE.... I'm sorry but anyone doing that is literally begging for it.
You tempt the Devil, bad things happen.
James shake roofs were the go to product back in the thats why there are so many in CA the material came from the Cedar industry in Oregon and Washington.. My bizz partner when I was doing timber in the 90s prior to us doing our thing.. he had a Cedar shake mill.. things changed in San Jose area tile roofs are very prevalent. Its all about the heavy brush with Manzanita and other dense brush full of oils that burn so hot and fast.. thats why in many areas in CA they have control burns.. And keep in mind the Indians used to burn this stuff hundreds of years ago as wellThat helps to make a lot more sense. The fire prevention policies were different, more aggressive, so far less imperative reasons to sway away from a then amply supplied and I imagine price adjusted material of shake vs fire resilient material.
I saw news other day of those winds and just clouds of embers and that, holly-cow with shake roof's, wow, that's literally an impossible fire to fight as it could jump homes and blocks in a blink, with every ember filled gust.
It drives me nuts seeing the lions share of blame being placed on weather in main stream media (talking as an aggregate whole not going to cherry pick individual ones of differing messaging) when I see a laundry list of obvious human caused contributing factors.
Because next thing, without a doubt, will be all about taking Federal funds to pay for all this. And that means YOU, me, WE paying the bill for what was in fair-share a CA person-made catastrophe via there idiotic actions.
FL can't do a dang thing to stop a hurricane, but they at least try to put in place mitigation items to lesson impact.
CA, stopping doing fire breaks because it messes with a mouse..... How's that mouse doing now? Crispy fried right....
Or not topping off reservoirs in advance of a known annual heightened fire risk season.
I am not saying it would have been 100% prevented if hadn't done these dumb actions, but with 100% certainty the scale of it all would have been different, lessor.
People died because of this, and thus there needs to be a criminal inquiry. Criminal negligence, that's a thing. And this, what I am hearing, wreaks of criminal negligence. Accountability must be demanded by Californians, and the nation as a whole.
But let me guess, Biden will issue pardons for entire CA political class...... Retroactive for any crimes known or unknown for the last however many years......
well typically middle of January is winter and not fire season so you have that .. Fire breaks work for sure I remember a big fire in Lake co. cA when I lived there and there were 4 to 5 dozer in a line doing fire breaks along ridge lines.. keep in mind though this is steep country so moving dozer through there is not that easy.. That fire in 1980 burnt 35,000 acres between ukiah CA and Lakeport Ca and only stopped when it got to the pear orchards in lake co.. there was not stopping it.. moved at about 10 to 20 miles per hour.. all over 8 hours.. until you see it in person you simply cant understand it..
Also keep in mind in LA most of those lots were created from 1900 to 1950s and well they are lots of record.. and were developed with the standards of the day.. Todays standards are far different as you know.. I deal with it in all the subdivisions I have built.. Fire department is the toughest one to deal with.. U need 1500 GPH at the hydrants.. no street can be longer than 600feet with out dual access.. If you cant meet GPH you need to sprinkler the houses so add 8 to 12k per track house to the build cost and oh by the way we need starter houses.. Etc etc.I always heard the fire risk season was tied to Santa Ana winds, Sept. - May..
I am sure your right on the winds.. I spent a winter in Palm Springs and brought my plane down there and you talk about some wicked winds .. I got caught in a mtn wave on one trip from Napa to Thermal Ca and we had 2k ft ups and downs un commanded you just ride the wave like a surfer and on the back side of the wave U pick up some pretty impressive ground speed.No thanks, I'm way too Norwegian for that noise. Put me on a boat with 10' swells and I'm happy as a pig in slop but in air getting thrown.... I'm the guy turning 3 shades of green with the verps. Lol.
- Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2017 · 107 posts · 89 votes1y
I’m not specifically bullish on CA due to debt to income and various social problems. However renting there can be a fun lifestyle if you don’t have kids.
- 1yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Chris Wilson:
Not trolling but just trying to provide some context about why states and other countries like CA have such stringent earth quake codes that keep getting updated.
I will never really understand the power of a Cat4 or Cat5 hurricane until I experience one. I have been in a 6.8 and 6.9 earthquake in WA and CA respectively. The 6.8 was some 65 miles south of me, I was on the 2nd floor of an office building that shook so hard for a minute that people were having problems staying standing up. A 7.0 releases some 32 times the amount of energy as the atomic bomb used on Hiroshima.
I am fully aware and well versed.
I have been a Building Contractor for over 30yrs. Master Journey Carpenter, Journey Mason, Journey HVAC. My last remodeling co. was a specialty Design Build firm. I had been scouted more times than I can recount to come to CA to apply my skills because the standards I came up in exceed that of CA and most places.
Building for seismic zones is actually not all that difficult. Wind and water, those are tricky ones, especially wind. Wind is an exerted force in many more ways than just the direct most think of. And hydraulic is a force that's very extreme.
Point is, the predominant production method of housing in the US is rather lack luster. The framing lumber popularly used is pathetic. And there is a lot of superior options out there in both product and methodology.
If you want a good CA home, do timber balloon frame, mortise and tenon joinery with masonry facade. Slate roof or even Spanish tile. Now you have seismic resilient with fire preventative.
Rockwool insulation...... I mean, your doing $1m+ for a property, why not get one built like it's a $1m+ home????
No, I'm hearing reports of shake roofs being predominant in a FIRE ZONE.... I'm sorry but anyone doing that is literally begging for it.
You tempt the Devil, bad things happen.
James shake roofs were the go to product back in the thats why there are so many in CA the material came from the Cedar industry in Oregon and Washington.. My bizz partner when I was doing timber in the 90s prior to us doing our thing.. he had a Cedar shake mill.. things changed in San Jose area tile roofs are very prevalent. Its all about the heavy brush with Manzanita and other dense brush full of oils that burn so hot and fast.. thats why in many areas in CA they have control burns.. And keep in mind the Indians used to burn this stuff hundreds of years ago as wellThat helps to make a lot more sense. The fire prevention policies were different, more aggressive, so far less imperative reasons to sway away from a then amply supplied and I imagine price adjusted material of shake vs fire resilient material.
I saw news other day of those winds and just clouds of embers and that, holly-cow with shake roof's, wow, that's literally an impossible fire to fight as it could jump homes and blocks in a blink, with every ember filled gust.
It drives me nuts seeing the lions share of blame being placed on weather in main stream media (talking as an aggregate whole not going to cherry pick individual ones of differing messaging) when I see a laundry list of obvious human caused contributing factors.
Because next thing, without a doubt, will be all about taking Federal funds to pay for all this. And that means YOU, me, WE paying the bill for what was in fair-share a CA person-made catastrophe via there idiotic actions.
FL can't do a dang thing to stop a hurricane, but they at least try to put in place mitigation items to lesson impact.
CA, stopping doing fire breaks because it messes with a mouse..... How's that mouse doing now? Crispy fried right....
Or not topping off reservoirs in advance of a known annual heightened fire risk season.
I am not saying it would have been 100% prevented if hadn't done these dumb actions, but with 100% certainty the scale of it all would have been different, lessor.
People died because of this, and thus there needs to be a criminal inquiry. Criminal negligence, that's a thing. And this, what I am hearing, wreaks of criminal negligence. Accountability must be demanded by Californians, and the nation as a whole.
But let me guess, Biden will issue pardons for entire CA political class...... Retroactive for any crimes known or unknown for the last however many years......
well typically middle of January is winter and not fire season so you have that .. Fire breaks work for sure I remember a big fire in Lake co. cA when I lived there and there were 4 to 5 dozer in a line doing fire breaks along ridge lines.. keep in mind though this is steep country so moving dozer through there is not that easy.. That fire in 1980 burnt 35,000 acres between ukiah CA and Lakeport Ca and only stopped when it got to the pear orchards in lake co.. there was not stopping it.. moved at about 10 to 20 miles per hour.. all over 8 hours.. until you see it in person you simply cant understand it..
Also keep in mind in LA most of those lots were created from 1900 to 1950s and well they are lots of record.. and were developed with the standards of the day.. Todays standards are far different as you know.. I deal with it in all the subdivisions I have built.. Fire department is the toughest one to deal with.. U need 1500 GPH at the hydrants.. no street can be longer than 600feet with out dual access.. If you cant meet GPH you need to sprinkler the houses so add 8 to 12k per track house to the build cost and oh by the way we need starter houses.. Etc etc.I always heard the fire risk season was tied to Santa Ana winds, Sept. - May..
I am sure your right on the winds.. I spent a winter in Palm Springs and brought my plane down there and you talk about some wicked winds .. I got caught in a mtn wave on one trip from Napa to Thermal Ca and we had 2k ft ups and downs un commanded you just ride the wave like a surfer and on the back side of the wave U pick up some pretty impressive ground speed.No thanks, I'm way too Norwegian for that noise. Put me on a boat with 10' swells and I'm happy as a pig in slop but in air getting thrown.... I'm the guy turning 3 shades of green with the verps. Lol.
my wife if Norwegian Wika :) raised on a little island in the Columbia River and family were all fishermen and loggers. - Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Chris Wilson:
Not trolling but just trying to provide some context about why states and other countries like CA have such stringent earth quake codes that keep getting updated.
I will never really understand the power of a Cat4 or Cat5 hurricane until I experience one. I have been in a 6.8 and 6.9 earthquake in WA and CA respectively. The 6.8 was some 65 miles south of me, I was on the 2nd floor of an office building that shook so hard for a minute that people were having problems staying standing up. A 7.0 releases some 32 times the amount of energy as the atomic bomb used on Hiroshima.
I am fully aware and well versed.
I have been a Building Contractor for over 30yrs. Master Journey Carpenter, Journey Mason, Journey HVAC. My last remodeling co. was a specialty Design Build firm. I had been scouted more times than I can recount to come to CA to apply my skills because the standards I came up in exceed that of CA and most places.
Building for seismic zones is actually not all that difficult. Wind and water, those are tricky ones, especially wind. Wind is an exerted force in many more ways than just the direct most think of. And hydraulic is a force that's very extreme.
Point is, the predominant production method of housing in the US is rather lack luster. The framing lumber popularly used is pathetic. And there is a lot of superior options out there in both product and methodology.
If you want a good CA home, do timber balloon frame, mortise and tenon joinery with masonry facade. Slate roof or even Spanish tile. Now you have seismic resilient with fire preventative.
Rockwool insulation...... I mean, your doing $1m+ for a property, why not get one built like it's a $1m+ home????
No, I'm hearing reports of shake roofs being predominant in a FIRE ZONE.... I'm sorry but anyone doing that is literally begging for it.
You tempt the Devil, bad things happen.
James shake roofs were the go to product back in the thats why there are so many in CA the material came from the Cedar industry in Oregon and Washington.. My bizz partner when I was doing timber in the 90s prior to us doing our thing.. he had a Cedar shake mill.. things changed in San Jose area tile roofs are very prevalent. Its all about the heavy brush with Manzanita and other dense brush full of oils that burn so hot and fast.. thats why in many areas in CA they have control burns.. And keep in mind the Indians used to burn this stuff hundreds of years ago as wellThat helps to make a lot more sense. The fire prevention policies were different, more aggressive, so far less imperative reasons to sway away from a then amply supplied and I imagine price adjusted material of shake vs fire resilient material.
I saw news other day of those winds and just clouds of embers and that, holly-cow with shake roof's, wow, that's literally an impossible fire to fight as it could jump homes and blocks in a blink, with every ember filled gust.
It drives me nuts seeing the lions share of blame being placed on weather in main stream media (talking as an aggregate whole not going to cherry pick individual ones of differing messaging) when I see a laundry list of obvious human caused contributing factors.
Because next thing, without a doubt, will be all about taking Federal funds to pay for all this. And that means YOU, me, WE paying the bill for what was in fair-share a CA person-made catastrophe via there idiotic actions.
FL can't do a dang thing to stop a hurricane, but they at least try to put in place mitigation items to lesson impact.
CA, stopping doing fire breaks because it messes with a mouse..... How's that mouse doing now? Crispy fried right....
Or not topping off reservoirs in advance of a known annual heightened fire risk season.
I am not saying it would have been 100% prevented if hadn't done these dumb actions, but with 100% certainty the scale of it all would have been different, lessor.
People died because of this, and thus there needs to be a criminal inquiry. Criminal negligence, that's a thing. And this, what I am hearing, wreaks of criminal negligence. Accountability must be demanded by Californians, and the nation as a whole.
But let me guess, Biden will issue pardons for entire CA political class...... Retroactive for any crimes known or unknown for the last however many years......
well typically middle of January is winter and not fire season so you have that .. Fire breaks work for sure I remember a big fire in Lake co. cA when I lived there and there were 4 to 5 dozer in a line doing fire breaks along ridge lines.. keep in mind though this is steep country so moving dozer through there is not that easy.. That fire in 1980 burnt 35,000 acres between ukiah CA and Lakeport Ca and only stopped when it got to the pear orchards in lake co.. there was not stopping it.. moved at about 10 to 20 miles per hour.. all over 8 hours.. until you see it in person you simply cant understand it..
Also keep in mind in LA most of those lots were created from 1900 to 1950s and well they are lots of record.. and were developed with the standards of the day.. Todays standards are far different as you know.. I deal with it in all the subdivisions I have built.. Fire department is the toughest one to deal with.. U need 1500 GPH at the hydrants.. no street can be longer than 600feet with out dual access.. If you cant meet GPH you need to sprinkler the houses so add 8 to 12k per track house to the build cost and oh by the way we need starter houses.. Etc etc.I always heard the fire risk season was tied to Santa Ana winds, Sept. - May..
I am sure your right on the winds.. I spent a winter in Palm Springs and brought my plane down there and you talk about some wicked winds .. I got caught in a mtn wave on one trip from Napa to Thermal Ca and we had 2k ft ups and downs un commanded you just ride the wave like a surfer and on the back side of the wave U pick up some pretty impressive ground speed.No thanks, I'm way too Norwegian for that noise. Put me on a boat with 10' swells and I'm happy as a pig in slop but in air getting thrown.... I'm the guy turning 3 shades of green with the verps. Lol.
my wife if Norwegian Wika :) raised on a little island in the Columbia River and family were all fishermen and loggers.Without doubt a brilliant and fierce women she is, SKOAL!
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