Tenant won't pay utilities- housing choice voucher DC

Tenant won't pay utilities- housing choice voucher DC

Rental Property Investor · Alexandria, VA · Member since 2014 · 46 posts · 6 votes

I've been renting to the same tenant with a housing choice voucher since 12/20. Before getting set up, I spoke to someone from this forum- I wish I retained their info- and they advised me to write into my lease terms that (even though the government was paying the tenant's utilities) the tenant was responsible for any costs above and beyond average usage, meaning anything above what the amount the government was paying me monthly. The government provides $197 per month for utilities and the tenant routinely runs far over this, averaging about $200 per month more than this. I bill her monthly and she eventually pays me back but right now she owes around $800 in back utilities. She is now saying the housing authority says I am not allowed to bill her per the terms of the DCHA lease which is separate from my lease but somewhat in conflict in that it says she does not pay. I understood the DCHA lease to mean that the government pays me for utilities but NOT that it precludes me from billing her for overages. She is also asking that I return the overages that she's paid me over the last four years.  DCHA is notoriously awful to deal with and when I've had to be in touch it can take dozens of calls and emails before I get a response. What measure should I take?
  

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Greg ScottPro Member
Rental Property Investor · SE Michigan · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 6k+ votes
1y

You are probably lucky that DCHA is so difficult to work with.  They will also be hard for your resident to reach too. 

Given that its been over 4 years, and now this is coming to light, I have a feeling your resident had a discussion with someone who gave them this idea.  Whether it is a friend or a lawyer from free legal-aid, you don't know.

Based on your numbers, I calculate your potential liability here at about $10K, assuming there are no penalties from having potentially broken the law.  If there are penalties, they could easily double or triple your potential risk.  Isn't it worth a few hundred bucks to get the opinion of an attorney experienced with this program to make sure you are correct?  

If you find you are on solid legal ground, then just proceed with a lease violation notice for late payment.  If you find you are not on solid legal ground, you have the ability to correct this before things potentially get worse.

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  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    1y

    Your tenant is correct. If you are on thr rent schedule of rent plus utilities, you can not charge extra for utilies. So youve been illegally billing the tenant for years at this point it sounds like. 


    If the tenant takes you to court, you will likely have to not just pay her back that billing, but it will be tripled plus court and lawyer costs.

  • Greg ScottPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · SE Michigan · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    1y

    You are probably lucky that DCHA is so difficult to work with.  They will also be hard for your resident to reach too. 

    Given that its been over 4 years, and now this is coming to light, I have a feeling your resident had a discussion with someone who gave them this idea.  Whether it is a friend or a lawyer from free legal-aid, you don't know.

    Based on your numbers, I calculate your potential liability here at about $10K, assuming there are no penalties from having potentially broken the law.  If there are penalties, they could easily double or triple your potential risk.  Isn't it worth a few hundred bucks to get the opinion of an attorney experienced with this program to make sure you are correct?  

    If you find you are on solid legal ground, then just proceed with a lease violation notice for late payment.  If you find you are not on solid legal ground, you have the ability to correct this before things potentially get worse.

    • Rental Property Investor · Alexandria, VA · Member since 2014 · 46 posts · 6 votes
      1y
      Quote from @Greg Scott:

      You are probably lucky that DCHA is so difficult to work with.  They will also be hard for your resident to reach too. 

      Given that its been over 4 years, and now this is coming to light, I have a feeling your resident had a discussion with someone who gave them this idea.  Whether it is a friend or a lawyer from free legal-aid, you don't know.

      Based on your numbers, I calculate your potential liability here at about $10K, assuming there are no penalties from having potentially broken the law.  If there are penalties, they could easily double or triple your potential risk.  Isn't it worth a few hundred bucks to get the opinion of an attorney experienced with this program to make sure you are correct?  

      If you find you are on solid legal ground, then just proceed with a lease violation notice for late payment.  If you find you are not on solid legal ground, you have the ability to correct this before things potentially get worse.

      @Greg Scott Thank you, Russel Brazil says I've been illegally charging my tenant rent. And yes, would like to talk to an attorney but was hoping to get some insight here.

    • Rental Property Investor · Alexandria, VA · Member since 2014 · 46 posts · 6 votes
      1y
      Quote from @Alexa S.:
      Quote from @Greg Scott:

      You are probably lucky that DCHA is so difficult to work with.  They will also be hard for your resident to reach too. 

      Given that its been over 4 years, and now this is coming to light, I have a feeling your resident had a discussion with someone who gave them this idea.  Whether it is a friend or a lawyer from free legal-aid, you don't know.

      Based on your numbers, I calculate your potential liability here at about $10K, assuming there are no penalties from having potentially broken the law.  If there are penalties, they could easily double or triple your potential risk.  Isn't it worth a few hundred bucks to get the opinion of an attorney experienced with this program to make sure you are correct?  

      If you find you are on solid legal ground, then just proceed with a lease violation notice for late payment.  If you find you are not on solid legal ground, you have the ability to correct this before things potentially get worse.

      @Greg Scott Thank you, Russel Brazil says I've been illegally charging my tenant rent. And yes, would like to talk to an attorney but was hoping to get some insight here.

      That's fair. And I didn't realize that it couldn't be adjusted. I mean if a landlord is covering thousands of dollars in utilities, what benefit is it for them to continue the business? I'd sooner sell than cover overages for the long term.
  • Rental Property Investor · Alexandria, VA · Member since 2014 · 46 posts · 6 votes
    1y

    @Russell Brazil I appreciate your response. Unfortunately, I received information from this forum to the contrary, from a longstanding landlord working with DCHA so of course it wasn't my intention to break the law. I can resolve the back pay but would the best solution then to just change the utilities to the tenant's name moving forward?

    • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
      Moderator
      Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
      1y
      Quote from @Alexa S.:

      @Russell Brazil I appreciate your response. Unfortunately, I received information from this forum to the contrary, from a longstanding landlord working with DCHA so of course it wasn't my intention to break the law. I can resolve the back pay but would the best solution then to just change the utilities to the tenant's name moving forward?

      I've never had a voucher tenant that I've moved from rent plus utilities to just rent, so I'm not sure if it's possible. And if it is possible, what the process is for that. Your tenant very well probably would reject this anyways. If utilities cost more than section 8 will pay, and they're already in the unit on a valid lease (DC leases automaticly extend month to month at expiration, with no ability to non-renew) then why would the tenant agree to change the terms of the lease in favor of the landlord?


    • Rental Property Investor · Alexandria, VA · Member since 2014 · 46 posts · 6 votes
      1y
      Quote from @Russell Brazil:
      Quote from @Alexa S.:

      @Russell Brazil I appreciate your response. Unfortunately, I received information from this forum to the contrary, from a longstanding landlord working with DCHA so of course it wasn't my intention to break the law. I can resolve the back pay but would the best solution then to just change the utilities to the tenant's name moving forward?

      I've never had a voucher tenant that I've moved from rent plus utilities to just rent, so I'm not sure if it's possible. And if it is possible, what the process is for that. Your tenant very well probably would reject this anyways. If utilities cost more than section 8 will pay, and they're already in the unit on a valid lease (DC leases automaticly extend month to month at expiration, with no ability to non-renew) then why would the tenant agree to change the terms of the lease in favor of the landlord?


      Can you explain what you mean that there is "no ability to non-renew"?


    • Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
      1y
      Quote from @Alexa S.:
      Quote from @Russell Brazil:
      Quote from @Alexa S.:

      @Russell Brazil I appreciate your response. Unfortunately, I received information from this forum to the contrary, from a longstanding landlord working with DCHA so of course it wasn't my intention to break the law. I can resolve the back pay but would the best solution then to just change the utilities to the tenant's name moving forward?

      I've never had a voucher tenant that I've moved from rent plus utilities to just rent, so I'm not sure if it's possible. And if it is possible, what the process is for that. Your tenant very well probably would reject this anyways. If utilities cost more than section 8 will pay, and they're already in the unit on a valid lease (DC leases automaticly extend month to month at expiration, with no ability to non-renew) then why would the tenant agree to change the terms of the lease in favor of the landlord?


      Can you explain what you mean that there is "no ability to non-renew"?



       I would guess that in a place like D.C., if that's where this is? Sec 8 capitol of the world, isn't it? Once you have a tenant, you are stuck with them. Landlord cannot terminate a lease. Except, for one reason, failure to pay rent. You would have to read the local laws of course, which I know nothing.

    • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
      Moderator
      Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
      1y
      Quote from @Alexa S.:
      Quote from @Russell Brazil:
      Quote from @Alexa S.:

      @Russell Brazil I appreciate your response. Unfortunately, I received information from this forum to the contrary, from a longstanding landlord working with DCHA so of course it wasn't my intention to break the law. I can resolve the back pay but would the best solution then to just change the utilities to the tenant's name moving forward?

      I've never had a voucher tenant that I've moved from rent plus utilities to just rent, so I'm not sure if it's possible. And if it is possible, what the process is for that. Your tenant very well probably would reject this anyways. If utilities cost more than section 8 will pay, and they're already in the unit on a valid lease (DC leases automaticly extend month to month at expiration, with no ability to non-renew) then why would the tenant agree to change the terms of the lease in favor of the landlord?


      Can you explain what you mean that there is "no ability to non-renew"?


      DC you can not choose to simply non-renew a tenant and get rid of them. The only way to get rid of a paying tenant is if the owner is going to re-occupy the property themselves. There is no other option to remove a paying tenant.
    • Rental Property Investor · Alexandria, VA · Member since 2014 · 46 posts · 6 votes
      1y
      Quote from @Russell Brazil:
      Quote from @Alexa S.:
      Quote from @Russell Brazil:
      Quote from @Alexa S.:

      @Russell Brazil I appreciate your response. Unfortunately, I received information from this forum to the contrary, from a longstanding landlord working with DCHA so of course it wasn't my intention to break the law. I can resolve the back pay but would the best solution then to just change the utilities to the tenant's name moving forward?

      I've never had a voucher tenant that I've moved from rent plus utilities to just rent, so I'm not sure if it's possible. And if it is possible, what the process is for that. Your tenant very well probably would reject this anyways. If utilities cost more than section 8 will pay, and they're already in the unit on a valid lease (DC leases automaticly extend month to month at expiration, with no ability to non-renew) then why would the tenant agree to change the terms of the lease in favor of the landlord?


      Can you explain what you mean that there is "no ability to non-renew"?


      DC you can not choose to simply non-renew a tenant and get rid of them. The only way to get rid of a paying tenant is if the owner is going to re-occupy the property themselves. There is no other option to remove a paying tenant.
      Thank you for clarifying. I just did not understand what you meant but yes, I'm aware of this.
    • MD/DC · Member since 2024 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
      1y
      Quote from @Russell Brazil:
      Quote from @Alexa S.:
      Quote from @Russell Brazil:
      Quote from @Alexa S.:

      @Russell Brazil I appreciate your response. Unfortunately, I received information from this forum to the contrary, from a longstanding landlord working with DCHA so of course it wasn't my intention to break the law. I can resolve the back pay but would the best solution then to just change the utilities to the tenant's name moving forward?

      I've never had a voucher tenant that I've moved from rent plus utilities to just rent, so I'm not sure if it's possible. And if it is possible, what the process is for that. Your tenant very well probably would reject this anyways. If utilities cost more than section 8 will pay, and they're already in the unit on a valid lease (DC leases automaticly extend month to month at expiration, with no ability to non-renew) then why would the tenant agree to change the terms of the lease in favor of the landlord?


      Can you explain what you mean that there is "no ability to non-renew"?


      DC you can not choose to simply non-renew a tenant and get rid of them. The only way to get rid of a paying tenant is if the owner is going to re-occupy the property themselves. There is no other option to remove a paying tenant.

      I'm in the area and know it is big business but this would be a hard no for me. Does selling the property allow for removal of the tenant? 

    • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
      Moderator
      Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
      1y
      Quote from @Jules Aton:
      Quote from @Russell Brazil:
      Quote from @Alexa S.:
      Quote from @Russell Brazil:
      Quote from @Alexa S.:

      @Russell Brazil I appreciate your response. Unfortunately, I received information from this forum to the contrary, from a longstanding landlord working with DCHA so of course it wasn't my intention to break the law. I can resolve the back pay but would the best solution then to just change the utilities to the tenant's name moving forward?

      I've never had a voucher tenant that I've moved from rent plus utilities to just rent, so I'm not sure if it's possible. And if it is possible, what the process is for that. Your tenant very well probably would reject this anyways. If utilities cost more than section 8 will pay, and they're already in the unit on a valid lease (DC leases automaticly extend month to month at expiration, with no ability to non-renew) then why would the tenant agree to change the terms of the lease in favor of the landlord?


      Can you explain what you mean that there is "no ability to non-renew"?


      DC you can not choose to simply non-renew a tenant and get rid of them. The only way to get rid of a paying tenant is if the owner is going to re-occupy the property themselves. There is no other option to remove a paying tenant.

      I'm in the area and know it is big business but this would be a hard no for me. Does selling the property allow for removal of the tenant? 


       Nope

    • MD/DC · Member since 2024 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
      1y
      Quote from @Russell Brazil:
      Quote from @Jules Aton:
      Quote from @Russell Brazil:
      Quote from @Alexa S.:
      Quote from @Russell Brazil:
      Quote from @Alexa S.:

      @Russell Brazil I appreciate your response. Unfortunately, I received information from this forum to the contrary, from a longstanding landlord working with DCHA so of course it wasn't my intention to break the law. I can resolve the back pay but would the best solution then to just change the utilities to the tenant's name moving forward?

      I've never had a voucher tenant that I've moved from rent plus utilities to just rent, so I'm not sure if it's possible. And if it is possible, what the process is for that. Your tenant very well probably would reject this anyways. If utilities cost more than section 8 will pay, and they're already in the unit on a valid lease (DC leases automaticly extend month to month at expiration, with no ability to non-renew) then why would the tenant agree to change the terms of the lease in favor of the landlord?


      Can you explain what you mean that there is "no ability to non-renew"?


      DC you can not choose to simply non-renew a tenant and get rid of them. The only way to get rid of a paying tenant is if the owner is going to re-occupy the property themselves. There is no other option to remove a paying tenant.

      I'm in the area and know it is big business but this would be a hard no for me. Does selling the property allow for removal of the tenant? 


       Nope

       Ugh. Yeah I'd lawyer up and consider moving into the place for a few nights then change my mind. 

    • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
      Moderator
      Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
      1y
      Quote from @Jules Aton:
      Quote from @Russell Brazil:
      Quote from @Jules Aton:
      Quote from @Russell Brazil:
      Quote from @Alexa S.:
      Quote from @Russell Brazil:
      Quote from @Alexa S.:

      @Russell Brazil I appreciate your response. Unfortunately, I received information from this forum to the contrary, from a longstanding landlord working with DCHA so of course it wasn't my intention to break the law. I can resolve the back pay but would the best solution then to just change the utilities to the tenant's name moving forward?

      I've never had a voucher tenant that I've moved from rent plus utilities to just rent, so I'm not sure if it's possible. And if it is possible, what the process is for that. Your tenant very well probably would reject this anyways. If utilities cost more than section 8 will pay, and they're already in the unit on a valid lease (DC leases automaticly extend month to month at expiration, with no ability to non-renew) then why would the tenant agree to change the terms of the lease in favor of the landlord?


      Can you explain what you mean that there is "no ability to non-renew"?


      DC you can not choose to simply non-renew a tenant and get rid of them. The only way to get rid of a paying tenant is if the owner is going to re-occupy the property themselves. There is no other option to remove a paying tenant.

      I'm in the area and know it is big business but this would be a hard no for me. Does selling the property allow for removal of the tenant? 


       Nope

       Ugh. Yeah I'd lawyer up and consider moving into the place for a few nights then change my mind. 


       The law already accounts for that. You need to live there a year plus before selling. If the house gets sold in under that time frame, you get fines from the city and sued by the tenant. 

  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    1y

    I'd talk to an attorney.  If they are running $200 over each month for utilities and don't have to pay them, I would not be renewing their lease.

  • Rental Property Investor · Alexandria, VA · Member since 2014 · 46 posts · 6 votes
    1y

    Plot twist- I looked back through old emails and was reminded that the contact that shared the suggestion to write into the lease the terms that the tenant pays utility overages was not from this forum but was recommended by my initial contact at DCHA. It was a local landlord who has voucher holder tenants and I used the DCHA caseworker's advice to reach out to her for guidance on starting with a tenant in the program. Looks like my fault for not doing further due diligence on this but also unfortunate I took this person's advice that came as a trusted and knowledgeable landlord to voucher holders.

  • Rental Property Investor · Alexandria, VA · Member since 2014 · 46 posts · 6 votes
    1y
  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    1y

    I would consult an attorney to get the definitive answer instead of asking for advice from strangers who may not be accurate. That's what got you into trouble in the first place.

    I would also consider selling the property and investing in a market that protects your rights as a property owner. Average utility use for an apartment in D.C. is $185. Your free-loading Tenant is abusing the utilities and you should have the right to (a) seek reimbursement, or (b) remove them.

    P.S. I use the term "free-loading" but I'm sure your tenant is 100% incapable of supporting herself and deserves to be supported by the taxpayers for life. Cue eye roll.

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    • Rental Property Investor · Alexandria, VA · Member since 2014 · 46 posts · 6 votes
      1y
      Quote from @Nathan Gesner:

      I would consult an attorney to get the definitive answer instead of asking for advice from strangers who may not be accurate. That's what got you into trouble in the first place.

      I would also consider selling the property and investing in a market that protects your rights as a property owner. Average utility use for an apartment in D.C. is $185. Your free-loading Tenant is abusing the utilities and you should have the right to (a) seek reimbursement, or (b) remove them.

      P.S. I use the term "free-loading" but I'm sure your tenant is 100% incapable of supporting herself and deserves to be supported by the taxpayers for life. Cue eye roll.


       Yes, will be contacting an attorney. I posted this on a Sunday night as a jump start since folks on this forum collectively have a lot more experience than I do with my sole property. 

  • MD/DC · Member since 2024 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    1y

    Giving this a bump. OP, after talking with legal counsel, what are your options? 

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