Shouldn't Prop Manager handle eviction?
Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2023 · 13 posts · 8 votes
Shouldn't Prop Manager handle eviction?
Most Popular Reply
Greg ScottPro Member
Rental Property Investor · SE Michigan · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 6k+ votesIt is very common for a PM to hire an experienced lawyer to handle the eviction process. In that way they are handling it. However, $1K is much higher than what we pay.
We do not allow partial payments and I find it curious that your PM accepted that. If they had followed our policy, you might already have possession of your unit.
30 Replies
- 2yGreg ScottPro MemberRental Property Investor · SE Michigan · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 6k+ votes
It is very common for a PM to hire an experienced lawyer to handle the eviction process. In that way they are handling it. However, $1K is much higher than what we pay.
We do not allow partial payments and I find it curious that your PM accepted that. If they had followed our policy, you might already have possession of your unit.
- Property Manager · DE · Member since 2023 · 248 posts · 133 votes2y
What does your management agreement say? It should be spelled out there. Also, is it allowable for them to handle where you are? Check the landlord-tenant code. The eviction process in DE has become so tough and time intensive to do that we use an attorney as needed.
- 2yMichael SmytheBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Metro Detroit · Member since 2023 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
@John Lubin in Michigan, only the property owner or an attorney can go to court.
Also, many judges "discriminate" against owners that do not hire an attorney.
I would ask for a breakdown of the $1,000 - does it include bailiffs?
Logical Property Management4.9446 Reviews - 2yAlecia LovelessPro MemberMember since 2019 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
@John Lubin If it solves your problem and gets rid of the tenant $1000 is short money and I’d pay that in a heartbeat to not have a prolonged issue.
The question of how the management company handles this should be spelled out in your contract with them.
If it’s not now you know what else should be included in the contract when you move to a different manager.
- Contractor · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes2y
obviously sounds like you have the wrong PM. Just get past this point, hit the reset button with a new PM. Would recommend elenis at thirdstone properties.
- 2yGregory SchwartzBusiness MemberRental Property Investor · College Station, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Sounds like you are frustrated about the situation and taking out on the PM.
Does the PM agreement spell out how they handle evictions? Did you ask?
I manage my properties and don't post eviction notices until the 15th-20th of every month. And even then as long as the tenant pays something I don't file for the eviction. As long as they're caught up by the end of the month then they're good.
Good luck
Schwartz Realty Group5116 Reviews - Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes2y
Quote from @John Lubin:
This is a question you should have asked before hiring them. Does your PM Agreement address this? It should.
Not all property managers handle eviction. In my company, we handle evictions, cover the cost of the eviction, and I even pay the Landlord up to a month of lost rent. Why? Because I rarely have to evict (one every 5-6 years) and because I always win my evictions. It doesn't make sense to hire an attorney for $1,500 when I can do it for $300 and make the tenant pay the costs (or eat the loss).
It's also important to understand the PM process. Your PM didn't even post a 3-day Notice until the tenant was over 50 days late on their July rent and 20 days late on August rent. That's terrible. I post 3-day Notices on the 11th day and file for court right after the 3-day expires. That means I have a court date within 30-40 days of the rent being late, I win the case, and the tenant is out within 48 hours, minimizing losses to the owner.
I recommend you consider educating yourself on what a good PM does, then consider moving your rentals to someone else. Be careful that you don't incur penalties for terminating with the current PM.
Remember: cheaper doesn't mean you'll make more money.
Start by going to www.narpm.org to search their directory of managers. These are professionals with additional training and a stricter code of ethics. It's no guarantee but it's a good place to start. You can also search Google and read reviews. Try interviewing at least three managers.
1. Ask how many units they manage and how much experience they have. Feel free to inquire about their staff qualifications if it's a larger organization.
2. Review their management agreement. Make sure it explicitly explains the process for termination if you are unhappy with their services, especially if they violate the terms of your agreement.
3. Understand the fees involved and calculate the total cost for an entire year of management so you can compare the different managers. It may sound nice to pay a 6% management fee but the extra fees can add up to be more than the other company that charges 10% with no additional fees. Fees should be clearly stated in writing, easy to understand, and justifiable. Common fees will include a set-up fee, a leasing fee for each turnover or a lease renewal fee, marking up maintenance, retaining late fees, and more. If you ask the manager to justify a fee and he starts hemming and hawing, move on or require them to remove the fee. Don't be afraid to negotiate, particularly if you have a lot of rentals.
4. Review their lease agreement and addenda. Consider all the things that could go wrong and see if the lease addresses them: unauthorized pets or tenants, early termination, security deposit, lease violations, late rent, eviction, lawn maintenance, parking, etc.
5. Don't just read the lease! Ask the manager to explain their process for dealing with maintenance, late rent, evictions, turnover, etc. If they are professional, they can explain this quickly and easily. If they are VERY professional, they will have their processes in writing as verification that policies are enforced equally and fairly by their entire staff.
6. Ask to speak with some of their current owners and current/former tenants. You can also check their reviews online at Google, Facebook, or Yelp. Just remember: most negative reviews are written by problematic tenants. A tenant complaining online might indicate that the property manager handled them appropriately, so be sure to ask the manager for their side of the story.
7. Look at their marketing strategy. Are they doing everything possible to expose properties to the broadest possible market? Are their listings detailed with good-quality photos? Can they prove how long it takes to rent a vacant property?
This isn't inclusive but should give you a good start. If you have specific questions about property management, I'll be happy to help!
The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews - 2yAdam BartomeoBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Listen up, everyone on this thread, the PM is NOT responsible for eviction costs just like they are not responsible for maintenance costs or any other costs. Even if the PM did handle the eviction there would still be costs associated with it that the owner would have to pay.
@John Lubin What else are you paying them for? Hmmm... lets think about this and list just a few things that you are paying them for... tenant communication, owner communication, managing expenses, maintenance concerns, vendor communication, negotiating vendor pricing, rent collections, accounts payable, accounts receivable, tenant procurement, 3-day notices, 7-day notices, 1099s, accounting, and 24/7/365 MANAGEMENT OF YOUR PROPERTY, for pennies of the rent... I missed a bunch but the point is DON'T TAKE YOUR PM FOR GRANTED.
Bartomeo Property Management4.7150 Reviews - 2yGregory SchwartzBusiness MemberRental Property Investor · College Station, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Quote from @Adam Bartomeo:
Listen up, everyone on this thread, the PM is NOT responsible for eviction costs just like they are not responsible for maintenance costs or any other costs. Even if the PM did handle the eviction there would still be costs associated with it that the owner would have to pay.
@John Lubin What else are you paying them for? Hmmm... lets think about this and list just a few things that you are paying them for... tenant communication, owner communication, managing expenses, maintenance concerns, vendor communication, negotiating vendor pricing, rent collections, accounts payable, accounts receivable, tenant procurement, 3-day notices, 7-day notices, 1099s, accounting, and 24/7/365 MANAGEMENT OF YOUR PROPERTY, for pennies of the rent... I missed a bunch but the point is DON'T TAKE YOUR PM FOR GRANTED.
This is a very good point. 10% a month or $100-200 bucks, how much do you really expect the PM to do. That only really buys you 1-2 hours per week!
Schwartz Realty Group5116 Reviews - 2yJeyo PunnakottilPro MemberRental Property Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2019 · 141 posts · 48 votes
@Adam Bartomeo
John was asking " shouldnt PCM handle the eviction " .The answer is ,"REFER BACK TO YOUR PMC AGREEMENT". Some PMC handle it themselves inhouse.Most donot, but hires an attorney and send the bill to Landlord.It all depends on what is written in your PMC agreement.That is why it is very crutial to vet your PPC same as you vet your tenants when you are self managing .
- 2yAdam BartomeoBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
@Jeyo Punnakottil Based on my experience, I have never seen the eviction process spelled out in a PMA. So, then what? The PM is not responsible for the costs.
Bartomeo Property Management4.7150 Reviews - Member since 2022 · 35 posts · 16 votes2y
A thousand dollars seems a little high but it does depend on what's involved. I would check state law; in some states, if your property is in an LLC you actually have to have an attorney for the eviction process. The attorney can explain their fees pretty accurately. Might be good to speak to them separately and see how much they actually charge.
In the future, if possible, I'd suggest putting the tenant on a payment plan with a deadline and once the payment plan is signed sending that to an attorney. At least from my experience, that allows you to still collect some of what you're owed and is something you can show the judge if you need to evict which helps to speed the process. That way even if you have to cut the tenant loose, you're not taking as much of a loss.
- Member since 2022 · 186 posts · 192 votes2y
John I also wonder same thing I’ve yet to discover what a PM actually does. They don’t do this they don’t do that. Especially for the amount of money they want. What are they doing each month that they deserve 10% of my return when I take all the risk? If there is a problem and I need a plumber I will call the plumber. I’m not gonna be charged a monthly fee to “manage property” then when something needs done be charged again. I don’t know I feel like if I am putting a someone In place to manage something they should well…….. manage it
- Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2023 · 13 posts · 8 votes2y
Thanks everyone for the responses.
This is a PM I put in place on my very first rental, so I've learned a lot of 'what not to do's' since.
I understand I would be responsible for paying associated court fees with an eviction, but assumed a PM would be able to handle the process and not need to outsource it to a lawyer. I could just hire a lawyer directly (and for less based on what most are saying). - Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2023 · 13 posts · 8 votes2y
Quote from @Jeremiah Dunakin:
John I also wonder same thing I’ve yet to discover what a PM actually does. They don’t do this they don’t do that. Especially for the amount of money they want. What are they doing each month that they deserve 10% of my return when I take all the risk? If there is a problem and I need a plumber I will call the plumber. I’m not gonna be charged a monthly fee to “manage property” then when something needs done be charged again. I don’t know I feel like if I am putting a someone In place to manage something they should well…….. manage it
Yea exactly. They have gotten repair quotes 2x what the market is (I'm convinced contractors give PM super high numbers because they know they can), they put the contract in touch directly with the tenant (so they aren't even managing the repair), and now they don't seem to be acting very quickly to collect rent or get the tenant out.
I've started self managing two other rentals to see how it goes. The main reason I kept a PM was in the case of eviction I didn't want to have to handle it myself. But knowing I have to pay a lawyer anyway, I can just work with them directly if needed.
- Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2023 · 13 posts · 8 votes2y
Quote from @Adam Bartomeo:
Listen up, everyone on this thread, the PM is NOT responsible for eviction costs just like they are not responsible for maintenance costs or any other costs. Even if the PM did handle the eviction there would still be costs associated with it that the owner would have to pay.
@John Lubin What else are you paying them for? Hmmm... lets think about this and list just a few things that you are paying them for... tenant communication, owner communication, managing expenses, maintenance concerns, vendor communication, negotiating vendor pricing, rent collections, accounts payable, accounts receivable, tenant procurement, 3-day notices, 7-day notices, 1099s, accounting, and 24/7/365 MANAGEMENT OF YOUR PROPERTY, for pennies of the rent... I missed a bunch but the point is DON'T TAKE YOUR PM FOR GRANTED.
"Listen up"? That's a bit of a patronizing way to start a post. Sorry if I offended you as a PM....
Clearly I'm not happy with my PM, but let me lay out your points of what a PM does and explain why none of that is happening:
-tenant comms - they put contractors in touch directly with the tenant for repairs. the Pm isnt' even managing the repair
-owner comms - it takes me forever to get responses
-rent collection - happens through a portal, they aren't going and picking up checks...
-3- day notice - they didn't service it for 50 days....
-Negating vendor pricing - 100% NOT the case. They get quotes FAR higher than I am able to, to the point that I've taken over handling all contractors and maintenance. (They paid a handyman $150 to put the weight back on the kitchen sink faucet line! And no, that wasn't the minimum charge to go out to the house)
- 2yAdam BartomeoBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
I am the first one to tell you that not all PM's are created equal and that there are a lot of really bad ones out there. Good PM's have to defend themselves on the daily because goof ball owners have no clue of what they are doing, look at the lowest price, and pick terrible PM's.
Bartomeo Property Management4.7150 Reviews - Member since 2022 · 35 posts · 16 votes2y
Quote from @John Lubin:
Quote from @Jeremiah Dunakin:
John I also wonder same thing I’ve yet to discover what a PM actually does. They don’t do this they don’t do that. Especially for the amount of money they want. What are they doing each month that they deserve 10% of my return when I take all the risk? If there is a problem and I need a plumber I will call the plumber. I’m not gonna be charged a monthly fee to “manage property” then when something needs done be charged again. I don’t know I feel like if I am putting a someone In place to manage something they should well…….. manage it
Yea exactly. They have gotten repair quotes 2x what the market is (I'm convinced contractors give PM super high numbers because they know they can), they put the contract in touch directly with the tenant (so they aren't even managing the repair), and now they don't seem to be acting very quickly to collect rent or get the tenant out.
I've started self managing two other rentals to see how it goes. The main reason I kept a PM was in the case of eviction I didn't want to have to handle it myself. But knowing I have to pay a lawyer anyway, I can just work with them directly if needed.
A good property manager should be able to negotiate with contractors and shouldn't just accept whatever rate is handed to them. One reason they should be able to do that is literally because they manage a lot of properties and can toss contractors business on a regular basis. Another reason is just market knowledge and knowing what a repair of a certain type given material and labor rates in an area should cost.
- 2yDrew SygitBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
Quote from @John Lubin:
Thanks everyone for the responses.
This is a PM I put in place on my very first rental, so I've learned a lot of 'what not to do's' since.
I understand I would be responsible for paying associated court fees with an eviction, but assumed a PM would be able to handle the process and not need to outsource it to a lawyer. I could just hire a lawyer directly (and for less based on what most are saying).In most states PMC personnel are NOT allowed to represent an owner in court.
Please check your state laws before repeating your statement about this!
Logical Property Management4.9451 Reviews - Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2023 · 13 posts · 8 votes2y
Quote from @Drew Sygit:
Quote from @John Lubin:
Thanks everyone for the responses.
This is a PM I put in place on my very first rental, so I've learned a lot of 'what not to do's' since.
I understand I would be responsible for paying associated court fees with an eviction, but assumed a PM would be able to handle the process and not need to outsource it to a lawyer. I could just hire a lawyer directly (and for less based on what most are saying).In most states PMC personnel are NOT allowed to represent an owner in court.
Please check your state laws before repeating your statement about this!
PM is able to file an eviction on owners behalf in FL, as long as it is for non-payment and uncontested, and the owner give authorization.
- 2yColleen F.Pro MemberInvestor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
@John Lubin if the PM says a lawyer will be $1000 I would go pick your own lawyer based on who handles the most evictions in the area. It is probably worth it at this point since they are so far behind. I would not be confident the PM has a good legal option if they served pay or quit so late. What PMs do should be in the aggreement. So when you pick your next PM you have learned what to look for.
- 2yDrew SygitBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
Quote from @John Lubin:
Quote from @Drew Sygit:
Quote from @John Lubin:
Thanks everyone for the responses.
This is a PM I put in place on my very first rental, so I've learned a lot of 'what not to do's' since.
I understand I would be responsible for paying associated court fees with an eviction, but assumed a PM would be able to handle the process and not need to outsource it to a lawyer. I could just hire a lawyer directly (and for less based on what most are saying).In most states PMC personnel are NOT allowed to represent an owner in court.
Please check your state laws before repeating your statement about this!
PM is able to file an eviction on owners behalf in FL, as long as it is for non-payment and uncontested, and the owner give authorization.
John, I'm confused as I didn't say a PMC couldn't file.
I stated they couldn't represent an owner in court.
That implies that an attorney is needed at some point.
What most PMC's in Michigan do, is send out the initial eviction notice and when needed, send that notice to an attorney to file a case with the appropriate court.
Why don't we file the case to try to save an owner money?
1) We want the court responses going to the attorney, not us.
2) We use eviction-focused attorneys that have scales of efficiency & price accordingly, so we really wouldn't save the owner much anyways.Have tried to share the "other side's perspective" with you, but you seem stuck on proving you're a victim.
WIsh you the best of luck.
Logical Property Management4.9451 Reviews - Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2023 · 13 posts · 8 votes2y
Quote from @Drew Sygit:
Quote from @John Lubin:
Quote from @Drew Sygit:
Quote from @John Lubin:
Thanks everyone for the responses.
This is a PM I put in place on my very first rental, so I've learned a lot of 'what not to do's' since.
I understand I would be responsible for paying associated court fees with an eviction, but assumed a PM would be able to handle the process and not need to outsource it to a lawyer. I could just hire a lawyer directly (and for less based on what most are saying).In most states PMC personnel are NOT allowed to represent an owner in court.
Please check your state laws before repeating your statement about this!
PM is able to file an eviction on owners behalf in FL, as long as it is for non-payment and uncontested, and the owner give authorization.
John, I'm confused as I didn't say a PMC couldn't file.
I stated they couldn't represent an owner in court.
That implies that an attorney is needed at some point.
What most PMC's in Michigan do, is send out the initial eviction notice and when needed, send that notice to an attorney to file a case with the appropriate court.
Why don't we file the case to try to save an owner money?
1) We want the court responses going to the attorney, not us.
2) We use eviction-focused attorneys that have scales of efficiency & price accordingly, so we really wouldn't save the owner much anyways.Have tried to share the "other side's perspective" with you, but you seem stuck on proving you're a victim.
WIsh you the best of luck.
Thanks for providing the 'other side's perspective'. I was just telling you what I read about the law in FL. Not sure how that is me playing the victim...
Seem to be a lot of defensive and confrontational PM's on this thread. But I appreciate the ones who have told me what to look out for when hiring a PM in the future. - 2yMichael McVetyBusiness MemberFort Myers, FL · Member since 2024 · 45 posts · 20 votes
Hi John.
I am a long-term property manager in Florida.
I think that some people may have confused what you were asking. While the property management agreement may contain whether the property manager will help file the eviction, I would say that in my 25 years, professional management companies file the eviction on behalf of their clients. If they are more of a part-time real estate/ property manager, maybe not.
The reason is that a professional management company knows the eviction process in Florida much like they should know other real estate laws. They should have a preferred attorney and procedures on delinquent rent. Whether the property manager charges to file the eviction (we do not) is a separate issue- a professional management company should file the eviction for you.
Regarding the arrears rent, again, a professional manager should be letting you know that the renter has fallen behind and why (did they have a medical emergency? lose a job but started a new one? They just want to live rent free?). More importantly, when the renter can make up the rent. Then you can decide to evict or not and when. Some managers may just file and never consult an owner, others like ourselves will communicate with you.
If you would like a referral for a property manager in Jacksonville (I have several long-standing friends up there), let me now. And no, I do not get paid for it! Just trying to help.
I hope this helps.
Red Fortress Property Management Co.4.2327 Reviews - Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2023 · 13 posts · 8 votes2y
Quote from @Michael McVety:
Hi John.
I am a long-term property manager in Florida.
I think that some people may have confused what you were asking. While the property management agreement may contain whether the property manager will help file the eviction, I would say that in my 25 years, professional management companies file the eviction on behalf of their clients. If they are more of a part-time real estate/ property manager, maybe not.
The reason is that a professional management company knows the eviction process in Florida much like they should know other real estate laws. They should have a preferred attorney and procedures on delinquent rent. Whether the property manager charges to file the eviction (we do not) is a separate issue- a professional management company should file the eviction for you.
Regarding the arrears rent, again, a professional manager should be letting you know that the renter has fallen behind and why (did they have a medical emergency? lose a job but started a new one? They just want to live rent free?). More importantly, when the renter can make up the rent. Then you can decide to evict or not and when. Some managers may just file and never consult an owner, others like ourselves will communicate with you.
If you would like a referral for a property manager in Jacksonville (I have several long-standing friends up there), let me now. And no, I do not get paid for it! Just trying to help.
I hope this helps.
Thanks so much for your response, Michael!
For now, I've started self-managing new acquisitions, and will take over on this property once the tenant is out. But I will certainly reach out in the future if I move properties to a PM. Much appreciated!
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