Direct Mail Almost Killed My Business - SEO Saved It

Direct Mail Almost Killed My Business - SEO Saved It

Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

I wanted to share my experience, frequently I'm contacted about direct mail marketing from listeners of the BP Podcast I was interviewed on in 2014. It was an honor to be interviewed, while the mindset and business organization tips offered still hold true. The marketing information is outdated and dangerous. Let me explain... 

From 2012 - 2015 I mailed 5,000 - 15,000 mail pieces per month in Southern California. Various types of letters and postcards with a good amount of success. But in 2015 I started to notice a shift, my marketing was becoming less effective as competition for off market properties grew and new wholesalers and house flippers began to try their luck at direct mail. 

Midway through 2016 I pulled the plug on all forms of direct mail and PPC marketing. I was fighting a losing battle, it took 10-15k mail pieces to get a deal and most sellers I reached were inciting bidding wars that I couldn't win. If I did get the deal, the wholesale fee would barely cover my marketing costs to get the deal. I was getting frustrated and felt embarrassed and afraid that my business model was no longer viable. 

At that point, 1/3 of my deals were coming from a website I had created in 2014. It was poorly designed but was ranking fairly well in my market. I noticed a trend that the sellers I reached via my site were much easier to deal with. To survive in my competitive market I knew I had to make big changes or I'd bleed out on the marketing costs of direct mail and PPC. 

Over the last two years I've sourced 100% of my deals from my website, which tends to rank in the top 3 spots for most keywords in my market. This change eliminated most of the stress and pressure I felt from high budget marketing. If I don't think a deal or a seller align with my goals, I can easily pass on it since my costs to reach them are negligible. In the past I'd be trying to fit round pegs in square holes to cover my marketing costs, running myself ragged on every lead to squeeze something out of it. 

I now spend under $1000 a year on design and maintenance to allow a fast, efficient, clean and safe website. This helps Google take notice and I am routinely making little tweaks to try and stay ahead of the curve. For a small company like mine, this provides me enough deals to thrive on while not stressing the typical costs and pressures of marketing in a fiercely competitive market. 

The intent of this post is shed light on the alternatives to large marketing budgets, technology is our friend and frankly I don't see many people looking in their mailbox for answers to their questions these days. They are on their phone. Direct mail might be a great way to reach sellers (especially the old ones) but the trend is shifting and it is no longer a creative form of marketing. Dealing with tech savvy sellers (of all ages) has made my life much easier and relieved a lot of stress. Feel free to ask any questions if you'd like to open a discussion on SEO, web marketing and its merits.

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Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
7y

seo is god. The problem many investors have is the lack of u understanding what seo is. If you say "I do seo" and you do not rank #1 I am sorry but SEO = picking your nose.

Seo is only useful being #1 or getting there. Period!

Then the second mistake people make is thinking that being number one is the end goal. SEO without credibility equals nothing. Credibility without SEO equals nothing unless you drive traffic to your website manually. People need to understand that SEO alone will not get you anywhere. Deals = SEO + credibility

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Tim G.:
    Originally posted by @Jamiel Strickland:

    Hey everyone,

    Are you all using investor carrot or using just a godaddy.com website and making it yourself?

    @Tim G. @Jerryll Noorden @Sam Craven@David Friedman@Adrien C.

    I use wordpress, I purchased the Divi theme and run that. I have podio automations built into the site. I do not believe investor carrot is that special. They use Yoast premium which is an SEO service you can buy on your own. It serves a purpose for someone who wants a turn key site, but its sort of like buying a turn key rental, not that special or profitable. 

     Dudes, I mean come on...

    Do I need to say anything else?

    It's a quarter after 8 and I ... have a bunch of leads already. 

    Tim... I am carefully saying this because your site is generating leads you say? I feel like if you improved a few things on your site you would get a TON more leads!

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jackson Pontsler:

    Really simple and slightly stupid question where can I get started to understand how to optimize my website for SEO?

     Be careful where you learn SEO from.

    Everyone claims they are experts, but we all  know I am the only expert.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2016 · 807 posts · 815 votes
    7y

    @Jerryll Noorden You always make me feel jealous with your screenshots!

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Pratik P.:

    @Jerryll Noorden You always make me feel jealous with your screenshots!

     Haha thank you brother. :)

  • Syndicator and Fund Manager · Victor, NY · Member since 2012 · 760 posts · 345 votes
    7y
    @Jerryll Noorden Give me a call when you get a chance. Thx.
  • Rental Property Investor · Portage, WI · Member since 2018 · 33 posts · 11 votes
    7y
    @Adrien S. Thank you. I was going to start doing direct. I can completely understand, where you are coming from, so I believe I will take your advice and focus on SEO.
  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
    Originally posted by @Tim G.:
    Originally posted by @Jamiel Strickland:

    Hey everyone,

    Are you all using investor carrot or using just a godaddy.com website and making it yourself?

    @Tim G. @Jerryll Noorden @Sam Craven@David Friedman@Adrien C.

    I use wordpress, I purchased the Divi theme and run that. I have podio automations built into the site. I do not believe investor carrot is that special. They use Yoast premium which is an SEO service you can buy on your own. It serves a purpose for someone who wants a turn key site, but its sort of like buying a turn key rental, not that special or profitable. 

     Dudes, I mean come on...

    Do I need to say anything else?

    It's a quarter after 8 and I ... have a bunch of leads already. 

    Tim... I am carefully saying this because your site is generating leads you say? I feel like if you improved a few things on your site you would get a TON more leads!

    That is correct, my site produces 100% of the deals I've done in the last two years, generating over half a million dollars in revenue. I appreciate the input, you are a true marketer... I'm sure your home buying and SEO consulting businesses are where they are today because of those abilities.  

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Tim G.:
    Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
    Originally posted by @Tim G.:
    Originally posted by @Jamiel Strickland:

    Hey everyone,

    Are you all using investor carrot or using just a godaddy.com website and making it yourself?

    @Tim G. @Jerryll Noorden @Sam Craven@David Friedman@Adrien C.

    I use wordpress, I purchased the Divi theme and run that. I have podio automations built into the site. I do not believe investor carrot is that special. They use Yoast premium which is an SEO service you can buy on your own. It serves a purpose for someone who wants a turn key site, but its sort of like buying a turn key rental, not that special or profitable. 

     Dudes, I mean come on...

    Do I need to say anything else?

    It's a quarter after 8 and I ... have a bunch of leads already. 

    Tim... I am carefully saying this because your site is generating leads you say? I feel like if you improved a few things on your site you would get a TON more leads!

    That is correct, my site produces 100% of the deals I've done in the last two years, generating over half a million dollars in revenue. I appreciate the input, you are a true marketer... I'm sure your home buying and SEO consulting businesses are where they are today because of those abilities.  

    Let's connect.

    I think it is worth listening what I have to say about your site. I will then leave it up to you to change these things. I am convinced you can increase your leads input and even rankings with a few tweaks. 

  • Specialist · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 134 posts · 81 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Tim G.:
    Originally posted by @Jamiel Strickland:

    Hey everyone,

    Are you all using investor carrot or using just a godaddy.com website and making it yourself?

    @Tim G. @Jerryll Noorden @Sam Craven@David Friedman@Adrien C.

     I use wordpress, I purchased the Divi theme and run that. I have podio automations built into the site. I do not believe investor carrot is that special. They use Yoast premium which is an SEO service you can buy on your own. It serves a purpose for someone who wants a turn key site, but its sort of like buying a turn key rental, not that special or profitable. 

     I could not agree more... here is my take "If everyone can do it, who will stand out" If a market is saturated with carrot sites, which factors will Google choose to rank them against each other? Most of the structure and copy is the same... I think there is a huge opportunity to have a power-house wordpress site using yoast and other tools mentioned here.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Collin Goodwin:
    Originally posted by @Tim G.:
    Originally posted by @Jamiel Strickland:

    Hey everyone,

    Are you all using investor carrot or using just a godaddy.com website and making it yourself?

    @Tim G. @Jerryll Noorden @Sam Craven@David Friedman@Adrien C.

     I use wordpress, I purchased the Divi theme and run that. I have podio automations built into the site. I do not believe investor carrot is that special. They use Yoast premium which is an SEO service you can buy on your own. It serves a purpose for someone who wants a turn key site, but its sort of like buying a turn key rental, not that special or profitable. 

     I could not agree more... here is my take "If everyone can do it, who will stand out" If a market is saturated with carrot sites, which factors will Google choose to rank them against each other? Most of the structure and copy is the same... I think there is a huge opportunity to have a power-house wordpress site using yoast and other tools mentioned here.

     You could not be more wrong. Seems you don't really understand SEO.

    SEO Google ranks is about hosting speed. Mobile friendliness. Time on page. Backlinks

    Etc etc

    Part has to do with what you write on your page. Part has to do with the hosting (investor carrot).

    You are saying all contractors use hammers so how will these houses they build be any different.

    Its a tool. You have to use that tool. Some hammers are better than others.

    This is not an opinion it is a fact. What you said is flat out simply wrong.

    And I have proof. Do a search for "we buy houses in..."

    And see which sites are on top every time.

    You can disagree all you want. The numbers simply do not lie. 

    Period

  • Specialist · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 134 posts · 81 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
    Originally posted by @Collin Goodwin:
    Originally posted by @Tim G.:
    Originally posted by @Jamiel Strickland:

    Hey everyone,

    Are you all using investor carrot or using just a godaddy.com website and making it yourself?

    @Tim G. @Jerryll Noorden @Sam Craven@David Friedman@Adrien C.

     I use wordpress, I purchased the Divi theme and run that. I have podio automations built into the site. I do not believe investor carrot is that special. They use Yoast premium which is an SEO service you can buy on your own. It serves a purpose for someone who wants a turn key site, but its sort of like buying a turn key rental, not that special or profitable. 

     I could not agree more... here is my take "If everyone can do it, who will stand out" If a market is saturated with carrot sites, which factors will Google choose to rank them against each other? Most of the structure and copy is the same... I think there is a huge opportunity to have a power-house wordpress site using yoast and other tools mentioned here.

     You could not be more wrong. Seems you don't really understand SEO.

    SEO Google ranks is about hosting speed. Mobile friendliness. Time on page. Backlinks

    Etc etc

    Part has to do with what you write on your page. Part has to do with the hosting (investor carrot).

    You are saying all contractors use hammers so how will these houses they build be any different.

    Its a tool. You have to use that tool. Some hammers are better than others.

    This is not an opinion it is a fact. What you said is flat out simply wrong.

    And I have proof. Do a search for "we buy houses in..."

    And see which sites are on top every time.

    You can disagree all you want. The numbers simply do not lie. 

    Period

     Not saying they're bad. At all. I'm saying there is an opportunity. There are hundreds of factors that influence SEO... no one thing will make you're website dominant. It's about having a solid framework, and maximizing the on-page and off-page factors using solid SEO strategies (many of which you mentioned above). 

  • Investor · Oxnard, CA · Member since 2014 · 438 posts · 187 votes
    7y

    @Jerryll Noorden  It's funny you mention that.  I searched "We buy houses in..." and "Sell my house fast" across the country a year or two ago just to see what other investors were doing.  What I found was that most, if not all, of the top positions were carrot sites. Although i was ranking fairly decent at the time with my wordpress site, i figured they had to be doing something right and switched to their services. 

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
    Originally posted by @Tim G.:
    Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
    Originally posted by @Tim G.:
    Originally posted by @Jamiel Strickland:

    Hey everyone,

    Are you all using investor carrot or using just a godaddy.com website and making it yourself?

    @Tim G. @Jerryll Noorden @Sam Craven@David Friedman@Adrien C.

    I use wordpress, I purchased the Divi theme and run that. I have podio automations built into the site. I do not believe investor carrot is that special. They use Yoast premium which is an SEO service you can buy on your own. It serves a purpose for someone who wants a turn key site, but its sort of like buying a turn key rental, not that special or profitable. 

     Dudes, I mean come on...

    Do I need to say anything else?

    It's a quarter after 8 and I ... have a bunch of leads already. 

    Tim... I am carefully saying this because your site is generating leads you say? I feel like if you improved a few things on your site you would get a TON more leads!

    That is correct, my site produces 100% of the deals I've done in the last two years, generating over half a million dollars in revenue. I appreciate the input, you are a true marketer... I'm sure your home buying and SEO consulting businesses are where they are today because of those abilities.  

    Let's connect.

    I think it is worth listening what I have to say about your site. I will then leave it up to you to change these things. I am convinced you can increase your leads input and even rankings with a few tweaks. 

     Sounds like a plan, I'll reach out via PM

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    There are some good points being brought up and I would agree with almost all of them. I have the same skepticism of Investor Carrot. How does every investor in one market who pays for their service get a top ranking site? They can't. Only one will be on top. That was my reasoning to why I couldn't jump on investor carrot. 

    In my market, investor carrot sites aren't the top dogs. But I'm operating in a big market, for smaller metros and cities their model could be the path to least resistance. For those of us who enjoy getting really into our websites, working on its speed, security, links, content and traffic driving a wordpress site with premium yoast services could be a good option. That is the path I chose to take. 

    SEO is such a mystery to the general public and it feels like real estate investors in general are terrible marketers... but then again most of marketing is failing and taking that data and adjusting. Any success rate even slightly over 50% is good, sort of like the house odds on blackjack. I'm enjoying this dialogue and hope it continues, that we can share more insight on what is working and provide some good content for others who hope to improve their sites and understand what SEO is and how to navigate it. 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Cornelius Charles:

    @Jerryll Noorden  It's funny you mention that.  I searched "We buy houses in..." and "Sell my house fast" across the country a year or two ago just to see what other investors were doing.  What I found was that most, if not all, of the top positions were carrot sites. Although i was ranking fairly decent at the time with my wordpress site, i figured they had to be doing something right and switched to their services. 

     Look. Like I said. Numbers do not lie. Plain and simple. Being skeptical is on you. That has nothing to do with facts.

    The facts are IC sites outrank other sites time and time again. You combine their fast platform with solid SEO knowledge and you are god online.

    Now you he she it can have the biggest voice saying "BS!"

    But the fact of the matter remains that while they are protesting the validity of this claim...IC sites continue to outperform other sites.

    So the point is simply this. What do you do..

    Keep standing your ground denying the facts or jump on the boat and get leads..

    Again... Say what you will... Numbers don't lie

  • Owen DashnerPro Member
    Lender · Omaha, NE · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    I put up a Leadpropeller site almost 2 years ago, mostly for the purposes of PPC, which we have bought a consistent number of deals from, but the number of leads we get in is not very high.  Granted, I am operating in the Omaha, NE metro area, so the population is a factor (700K in the surrounding area).  In the beginning, I also paid for LP to do some drip articles on various motivated seller attracting content, but my SEO/organic ranking is terrible for the major search phrases.  I see newer investors that started about a year ago ranking in the top 3, and I believe all of them have Carrot sites.

    Does anyone use 2 different sites for PPC/SEO (LP and Carrot both perhaps)?  We spend over $5K a month on PPC, and I would reallocate some of that spend toward SEO, but I also don't want to just pull the plug on my LP site necessarily after having it for 2 years...  Does anyone out there with a LP site rank high organically, or is Carrot the 500 lb gorilla with template investor sites for SEO?  Anyone have thoughts on this - LP vs. Carrot vs. both?  Our content quantity is on the low side as well, but working on improving it.  We also do a fair amount of direct mail which is also generating some deals, but I'd really like some expert opinions on marketing spend for both short and long term leadgen.  

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Owen Dashner:

    I put up a Leadpropeller site almost 2 years ago, mostly for the purposes of PPC, which we have bought a consistent number of deals from, but the number of leads we get in is not very high.  Granted, I am operating in the Omaha, NE metro area, so the population is a factor (700K in the surrounding area).  In the beginning, I also paid for LP to do some drip articles on various motivated seller attracting content, but my SEO/organic ranking is terrible for the major search phrases.  I see newer investors that started about a year ago ranking in the top 3, and I believe all of them have Carrot sites.

    Does anyone use 2 different sites for PPC/SEO (LP and Carrot both perhaps)?  We spend over $5K a month on PPC, and I would reallocate some of that spend toward SEO, but I also don't want to just pull the plug on my LP site necessarily after having it for 2 years...  Does anyone out there with a LP site rank high organically, or is Carrot the 500 lb gorilla with template investor sites for SEO?  Anyone have thoughts on this - LP vs. Carrot vs. both?  Our content quantity is on the low side as well, but working on improving it.  We also do a fair amount of direct mail which is also generating some deals, but I'd really like some expert opinions on marketing spend for both short and long term leadgen.  

     Hey 

    Don't misunderstand. Having a carrot site gives you some perks sure. Just don't think because you have carrot equals #1 ranks.

    Its your awesome SEO skills that takes you That rest of the 95% of the way

  • Owen DashnerPro Member
    Lender · Omaha, NE · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Jerryll Noorden, so I assume you just use Carrot's basic template package, then you do all of your own content?  I've read through your blog and it is impressive, although it makes me wonder if you are involved in starting an "Edge of Tomorrow" type scenario in the future...  ;)

    I'd like to know more about your consulting work/pricing, maybe offline?

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Owen Dashner:

    @Jerryll Noorden, so I assume you just use Carrot's basic template package, then you do all of your own content?  I've read through your blog and it is impressive, although it makes me wonder if you are involved in starting an "Edge of Tomorrow" type scenario in the future...  ;)

    I'd like to know more about your consulting work/pricing, maybe offline?

     Investor carrot will HATE me for saying this but...

    I got the template, deleted the entire thing and started from scratch. I did it all completely custom. I just think their hosting is great. Perfect setup technically to rank great. All it needed was someone that knows SEO better than well.. most.. And you have yourself a money making machine!

    ;)

    My advice... take the template, rewrite each paragraph into your own words, and roll with it!

    Do your credibility score, and onpage SEO and you are ready to rock!

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Greater San Diego Area · Member since 2018 · 5 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    This is an interesting case study, and I'm glad to hear you are having success with the SEO on your website. Keep up the great work!

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Collin Goodwin:
    Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
    Originally posted by @Collin Goodwin:
    Originally posted by @Tim G.:
    Originally posted by @Jamiel Strickland:

    Hey everyone,

    Are you all using investor carrot or using just a godaddy.com website and making it yourself?

    @Tim G. @Jerryll Noorden @Sam Craven@David Friedman@Adrien C.

     I use wordpress, I purchased the Divi theme and run that. I have podio automations built into the site. I do not believe investor carrot is that special. They use Yoast premium which is an SEO service you can buy on your own. It serves a purpose for someone who wants a turn key site, but its sort of like buying a turn key rental, not that special or profitable. 

     I could not agree more... here is my take "If everyone can do it, who will stand out" If a market is saturated with carrot sites, which factors will Google choose to rank them against each other? Most of the structure and copy is the same... I think there is a huge opportunity to have a power-house wordpress site using yoast and other tools mentioned here.

     You could not be more wrong. Seems you don't really understand SEO.

    SEO Google ranks is about hosting speed. Mobile friendliness. Time on page. Backlinks

    Etc etc

    Part has to do with what you write on your page. Part has to do with the hosting (investor carrot).

    You are saying all contractors use hammers so how will these houses they build be any different.

    Its a tool. You have to use that tool. Some hammers are better than others.

    This is not an opinion it is a fact. What you said is flat out simply wrong.

    And I have proof. Do a search for "we buy houses in..."

    And see which sites are on top every time.

    You can disagree all you want. The numbers simply do not lie. 

    Period

     Not saying they're bad. At all. I'm saying there is an opportunity. There are hundreds of factors that influence SEO... no one thing will make you're website dominant. It's about having a solid framework, and maximizing the on-page and off-page factors using solid SEO strategies (many of which you mentioned above). 

     That, my friend I totally agree with.

    There are many many factors that determine rankings... some big, some small, some insignificantly small..

    My secret.. I do not discriminate. I will give every factor my full attention, from the big to insignificantly small.

    And ... voila!

    Leads while I sleep, eat, and heaven.. poop!

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @David Smith:

    This is an interesting case study, and I'm glad to hear you are having success with the SEO on your website. Keep up the great work!

     Thank you my man!

    It's the monkey in me. It makes me brilliant!

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    I might have missed it in the discussion, but where are the numbers and data that is being referenced showing IC websites are the best and ranking the highest. Lets see some data. 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Cornelius Charles:

    @Jerryll Noorden  It's funny you mention that.  I searched "We buy houses in..." and "Sell my house fast" across the country a year or two ago just to see what other investors were doing.  What I found was that most, if not all, of the top positions were carrot sites. Although i was ranking fairly decent at the time with my wordpress site, i figured they had to be doing something right and switched to their services. 

     Yes yes,

    You are smart beyond your years my friend!!!

    Totally with you on this!

  • Flipper/Rehabber · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 48 posts · 5 votes
    7y
    @Jerryll Noorden can we chat? I have been playing around with web things but would love these results for my business.
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