Contacted by "Bird Dogger"?

Question

Hello all. I am new to this website and look forward to learning new things.

Here is my question.

Recently I was contacted by a man who was interested in purchasing one of my properties.  I assume he pulls names of Tax Records and calls until he finds an owner willing to sell.  Well it just so happens he caught me at the right time.  I have one property I told him I would like to sell.  He was very interested and began to talk as if he represented investors. The following day he submits to me the most basic contract I had ever seen in my life with no signature.  I immediately call my agent and have him write up a standard gar contract.  We then ask to see proof of funds and proof of earnest money.  Before we had a binding agreement I agreed to let someone come out and look at the property. Well this individual comes out and takes a few pictures and says that its in good shape and they will defiantly be purchasing the property.  The next day the original guy gives me a call and puts me through to a woman who is claiming to be the "investor". She then explains to me that they will need to bring out a couple more people to view the property before they purchase.

I then explain to her that we have no binding contract and I have not seen proof of funds.  She almost gets defensive and seems like I am requesting the world of her to see the funds.  Well finally she sends them to me, and let me tell you that it smelled a little fishy.  I told her that I will send over a binding agreement if I want to still do the transaction.  Well I replied saying I would not and about an hour later the original guy gives me a call back asking what happened.  I explained something does not seem right about this whole deal.

After some investigation into this guys email I come across a website that looks to have listings of some distressed and abandoned properties.  In addition there is a section outlining "Birddogging" and asking for people who would like to try this out.

I apologize for this lengthy email and I am awful at telling stories. So I will try to sum this up with a question.

As a real estate investor/homeowner, when approached by someone who is "Birddogging" what type if things do I need to be cautious of and how do I handle the situation?

There have been so many red flags, yet I would hate to lose out on someone who is willing to buy my property at a fair market value while Im motivated to sale.

Any advice?

Account Closed · Answer

I dont think he was expecting to get a hold of someone that actually has somewhat of a clue about real estate. It seems to me they actually are looking for the distressed homeowner looking for a fast sale that can be taken advantage of. I looked up properties on their website in the tax records and many of them were vacant county owned properties.  Oh, and in regards to the proof of funds I was sent, I called the company listed in the letter and they had no involvement.  They thanked me for telling them. Obviously I am dealing with some sort of fraud, but I just dont understand what the end goal is for these people. Thats why part of me still wants to see where it goes

Account Closed · Answer

Ya. These people are awfully persistent. Even after I have told them the deal is off. Its funny because they claim to have done close to 100 deals, but when I asked for an address of a house they purchased they never told me.  Part of me wants to just see what this is all about, and then the other part doesn't want to get caught up in a scam, which it feels like.

Account Closed · Answer

Thanks. Yes they seem very concerned about using their own attorney. If I cant use mine there will be no deal. As far as FMV goes, I bought the house for 25k with about 5k invested and am getting 45k in return.  Im happy with that.  But it just seems so shady to me.

Steve Babiak · Answer

Bird-doggers and wholesalers are what you were dealing with.  They are looking to make money, so these people in the middle of the transaction will need to have you agree to sell for less than you might expect or want to sell for.

William Bannister · Answer

Sound like people with a lot of free time on there hands.

William Bannister · Answer

Its hard to avoid getting your chain yanked around in this business if your active. For me usually its tenants trying to either get into my units without cash or stay without cash. I know some will call me crude but money talks and b$ walks.  
  Once I discover some one is wasting my time I generally avoid them like the plague. I have too many hobbies i enjoy like time with my family.

Tiger M. · Answer

I get the same kind of sketch calls. I never like to shut them down without some investigation. Sounds like you did the same. But when we get to 3 delays, or non performance, we cut the line. I have a guy now calling about a bulk sale, asking us to write contracts but he never provides the entire item list we ask for, close to it like 10 out of 11 pages executed, but never quite 100%. Third time, we stopped taking his calls. If he closes a deal with someone else, oh well, at least we didn't beat our heads against the wall and God Bless them.

William Bannister · Answer

A little wasted time there but what to worry they came they saw they didnt write on property and leave earnest money I would say next;)
   I have had several try this on my multi units. It seems those things get a consistent amount low ball  offers over time. 
    I had one guy say Il get you an offer standing in front of my unit when I was finishing hanging a brand new garage door on a 3 unit I own. I said you have 5 minutes? he said sure. I said why not take a look now rather then waste time then give me an offer right here?
  So we go through the building and all 3 tenants have no problem with me showing the building since I am pretty active on the property anyways.  Then standing outside it was like ok what do you think you want to make me an offer?  He says would you take 30k and give me 29k owner financing.  I said nope I sit on it for that offer. Then he asks whats your exit strategy. I said I have 3 exit strategies. The 1st is death, The second is I give it to my son to sell or keep as an income property, the 3rd is I sell if a good offer comes along. 
  Im 44 so I figure If I dont drink and dont smoke and go to the Y every day I have a pretty good chance to make 80 years old. That gives me about 35+ years to make one of these exit strategies work.
   So instead of getting negative I just slowed down a little and asked him did he have more then 1k to invest. He said yes I said how much?
He says I got 3k I said ok I will sit down with you over a cup of coffee and show you what I do have. 
   Then later I showed him a junker, sfh I am buying from another retiring landlord I know. I said this is 3k down 300 a month for 24 months.   your rent on  this 650 a month and its a little rehab but aside from carpets and a couple broken windows its a property he could have less then 10k into right off the bat and get some nice cash flow. 
  I have 3k into this deal and I am just looking to get my money back and get some cash flow going on this deal quickly without rolling up my sleeves. I get several calls later from him over the next few weeks but he never could get the  full 3k. I just figure I have to go through the process to make sure good customers arent getting thrown away. 
   I knew right from the start he would not be buying my triplex I just had that feeling but I have moved people into what they could afford when I can.
  You can avoid all this bs with Patlive and just filter out what type of people you show property too. You can have an answering machine that sends cash buyers to message a) then credit buyers to message b) and then maybe credit with fat down pmt buyers to message c)
   You pay a little bit for patlive to set up a secretary that filters your calls and pretty soon you have a prospecting machine to stop all this nonsense that you might go through on a Saturday when you would rather be at the park with your boy. patlive is just an example you could use any type of virtual  live secretarial service to accomplish what im talking about. 
  Most of the time when someone gets smart and wants to make me an offer I pre qualify them but that day I just didnt.

Wayne Brooks · Answer

Don't expect FMV from them.  If they do offer an acceptable price, have your attorney review the contract, and YOU pick the closing agent/attorney.