HELOC Closed! $94,000! It was quite an adventure!

HELOC Closed! $94,000! It was quite an adventure!

Manville, NJ · Member since 2015 · 141 posts · 87 votes

Hello. This is probably not as much of a success story as I often see here but... To me, this is big. 

We bough the property at the end of 2015. All cash. $54k with closing costs. Owner occupied. We renovated it big time with leftover cash, some personal loans, and 0% APR credit cards. No contractors, at all. It was a REO and it required work, a lot of work. I can run electrical and plumbing in my sleep now. We are probably in for around $80k-$85k total with the purchase cost. The house is now worth close to $180,000. Now we are working at paying off all that debt and I have to say it hasn't been smooth sailing all the way because things come up but it's going good. Long hours at work, chipping away at that debt. We are closer to the end than ever.

A few months ago (over two months, exactly) we decided to get a HELOC. TRY getting a HELOC. I was pretty positive we would not get approved although our credit is very good. Some leftover debt is still there from the renovation and I change jobs quite often. Very often actually. Whoever pays more! I even changed industries recently, but came back to the original industry I was in. After reading about how difficult it is to get a HELOC nowadays, we decided to try it anyway. Nothing to lose. I was expecting it to get denied and the bank to laugh in my face. The process took OVER two months with TD BANK. I DO NOT recommend them. Just don't do it. Go to your local credit union instead. TD BANK has a tendency to take their time and go back and forth with their customers with the littlest things. Multiple departments, they appear to be overloaded with applications. Two weeks for verbal employment verification, seriously? Right before closing they pointed out that the loan number has to be added to the insurance policy or we can't close. Like if that could not be handled earlier... I sure learned a whole lot about the process.

We wanted to get a $140,000 from them but they could only approve $95,000. No surprise here. They did a drive by appraisal, compared the property to local REOs that were not even similar to our house, and missed the ball by about $70k. It's ok. I'm happy with what we got. I just don't know who wanted this closing to take place more, me or them. When I realized how much they wanted this line to close I was quite surprised. The property is free and clear. No mortgage. They got first position. I got a 10 year HELOC at 5.74% variable with a 20 year repayment. Not the BEST rate but definitely good enough for our purpose of buying out of state and refinancing within 6 to 8 months or sooner if possible, with he ultimate goal of holding the properties. As you may have guessed, I will be doing most of the work myself, out of state. It's a crazy idea, but so was buying this house in the first place. We also have the option to lock into three loans at (I believe) 1.99% within that $95,000 without any additional paperwork. Quite secure, in my opinion. If the market starts to tank I guess I will just max out the HELOC, hold the proceeds, and pay the interest to have the funds liquid in my account. The interest payment is somewhere below $400 a month. Wait, can I even play game like that? I sure hope I can... Buy when everybody else is selling!

So, my point here is. Do not get a HELOC with TD BANK unless you have all the time in the world to hang on the phone with them and send additional/ corrected paperwork every day. On the other hand, if you have a free and clear property, you might wanna give them a shot. Chances are they will approve it, even if your tax returns show low income for the past few years, and you change jobs twice a year with some unemployment benefits in-between and a single maxed out credit card on your credit report and a few additional personal loans.

Now the goal is to become debt free and build up some more cash reserves before even thinking about investing into the next property. We probably could pull it off at this moment, but I sleep better at night knowing that I have no debt, before I jump into more debt, even if its good debt, such as a mortgage.

If anybody has any questions about the HELOC process feel free to ask. I'm still fresh, and my head is still spinning from all the paperwork. I will do my best to answer to the best of my abilities.

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Real Estate Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 5 posts · 3 votes
8y

If anyone is looking for a HELOC, I got an offer in the mail through Third Federal Savings & Loan for prime - .76%. They are based out of Ohio and I am not sure which states they operate in, but they are in Colorado. I have never done a HELOC with them, but thought I'd pass along in case someone else is looking for a HELOC. I have never seen a rate that good on a HELOC.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2017 · 9 posts · 1 vote
    8y
    Originally posted by @Brandon Ingegneri:

    I opened a TD account just because they had the free change machines that I could cash in from my coin ops. I didn't have any of my operating accounts with them... initially. They roped me into opening one, so I gave them a shot but still kept everything with my main bank. Long story short, they were the mess you described. I closed the account and stayed with my long term bank. If you find the right bank, a HELOC can be a very simple expedient process. A good bank makes the process so much more manageable in so many scenarios. We both learned the hard way I guess.

     Is there any specific bank you recommend for HELOCs and what in your opinion would qualify them as a "good bank"?

  • Rental Property Investor · Providence, RI · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 594 votes
    8y

    I would unfortunately not have a referral in the Midwest.

  • Investor · Jackson, MS · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 769 votes
    8y

     Is there any specific bank you recommend for HELOCs and what in your opinion would qualify them as a "good bank"?

    Understand there are a limited number of financial institutions that will do HELOCs on investment properties. I work with Wells Fargo because they do. But the process is painfully and ridiculously slow. The advantage to me are those teaser rates when I pay off the HELOC each year and then take it out again. But mind you, my HELOCs are small 20-50K.

  • Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2017 · 9 posts · 1 vote
    8y
    Originally posted by @Susan Maneck:

     Is there any specific bank you recommend for HELOCs and what in your opinion would qualify them as a "good bank"?

    Understand there are a limited number of financial institutions that will do HELOCs on investment properties. I work with Wells Fargo because they do. But the process is painfully and ridiculously slow. The advantage to me are those teaser rates when I pay off the HELOC each year and then take it out again. But mind you, my HELOCs are small 20-50K.

     I understand and I've added Well Fargo to my list; and thank you for answering my question.

  • Real Estate Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 5 posts · 3 votes
    8y

    @Michael Phillips

    That's great you were able to lock in that rate. I just opened a HELOC with another credit union for prime +.25% and haven't tapped into it yet. I am wondering if I should close the other one out and switch to this. I am curious about your strategy to use it as a checking account to pay off your primary. I'd love to hear more.

  • Investor · Jackson, MS · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 769 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Megan Haubelt:

    @Michael Phillips

    That's great you were able to lock in that rate. I just opened a HELOC with another credit union for prime +.25% and haven't tapped into it yet. I am wondering if I should close the other one out and switch to this. I am curious about your strategy to use it as a checking account to pay off your primary. I'd love to hear more.

    I would not close any account that gives you easy access to affordable credit. Access to credit is what allows us to be investors and keep in mind that our credit scores are largely based on the amount of credit we use in relationship to the credit available to us. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Manteno, IL · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    I actually close on a heloc that I got on my primary residence. This bank went to 100% LTV on the heloc. Here were the terms:

    TERMS APPROVED:

    $100,000 – line of credit which is max we can offer at 100% loan to value

    Rate = 5.88% variable OR 1.63% above prime rate

    No required payoffs

    Rate includes .40% discount for taking at least a $40,000 draw at closing


    I'm also going to refi one of my investment properties to 75%. They could have done it on one rental property as a heloc but my stuff is almost all under my corp and they required 6 mos of seasoning for the property to be in my name so I would have had to quit claim it and wait 6 mos.  Instead I'm going to just do a basic refi.

    But there are some unique heloc's out there for sure. And most of them do take some time - it just goes with the business.  Real estate is all about hurry up and wait - with a strong emphasis on wait. :-)

  • Bend, OR · Member since 2017 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    8y
    Hello Scott, thank you for your feedback and recommendation. I agree that we need to be more stable cash and income wise. My husband lost his job and has had a hard time finding work so that has effected our monthly income. When we bought our current home we had his income prior to getting financed.

    The $1640 a month is net income. Thanks again for the advice. Looks like we'll have to wait it out and get more monthly income, less debt, and more into savings. I do have separate savings for each home which is about $2k each. The 4k savings I mentioned before isn't our complete savings because I have designated the other income to property emergencies also our household emergency fund of 1k. So total in liquid cash savings including money put away for rentals is $7800.

    Originally posted by @Scott Edmonds:

    @Sherry Sprayberry - You might consider increasing your monthly income before purchasing additional properties (i.e. do not take on additional debt as you do not have an adequate amount of cash for funding). I'm not sure if $1,640/mo. is your net or gross figure, regardless that is quite low (generally speaking) with or without additional rental income. Honestly, it's pretty impressive that you were able to qualify for a loan on your primary residence given the level of your monthly 'working' income. I would mainly concentrate on significantly increasing your monthly 'working' income (if possible), and potentially bump up your savings a bit so that you don't have to C.C. finance any personal/business emergencies. 

  • Bend, OR · Member since 2017 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    8y
    Hello Pratapa,

    Thank you for your reply and advise. 

    So you're saying I can use HELOC loan for my down payment and finance the rest of the duplex with an FHA loan if the numbers check out via income to debt ratio. 

    The house we are in now required us to provide a long term lease agreement and proof of rental funds from the property we were living in that became a rental. 

    Thanks again,

    Sherry S.

    Originally posted by @Pratapa Sanaga:
    My guess, the bank you'd go to for loan on new property will take the heloc monthly payment into account when doing debt to income math. If your numbers look good even with new house payments and heloc, then you don't have to worry. 

    But if you are planning on using the rent from your current house as income, lender might ask for long term rental agreement and first month rent check to be deposit before financing the loan - happened to me. 

    Originally posted by @Sherry Sprayberry:

    Hi Jake, thank you for sharing your story and experience with us, its very helpful. 

    I wanted to ask you some questions about our situation based on your recent experience. What do you think we would qualify for in regards to HELOC loan, or if we could find a home loan for 250k to 300k covering 97%?

    We finance/own three properties, live in one and rent the other two out to long term tenants, both of us have 780 credit scores, 1st property is worth $140k - owe 50k - monthly rent profit after sewer, water, garbage, mortgage, pool maintanace - profit $350 a month, 2nd property is worth 185k - owe 67k- monthly rent profit after mortgage is $700 a month, 3rd property is worth 275k - owe 237k - no monthly rent profit because its our primary residence. 

    We have three accounts with three different credit unions. currently have 4k in savings, 10k in investments, a monthly income of $1640 not including rental income of $1050. 

    We wanted to purchase a duplex for around 250k to 300k, live in one side and rent out the other and rent the house we are in now with a monthly profit of $500 after mortgage is paid. Could also double monthly profits by renting out other side via AIRBNB making $2800 a month or $700 weekly or $1200 monthly to long term tenant. 

    We would need to finance the duplex at 97%, based on what we have available in savings 4k. Not sure what we could qualify for and what to apply for at this time? 

    I'm thinking we may need to wait another year and save up to 11k to 15k for 3.5% down payment for an FHA loan. I'd like to not have to wait a year and make the move instead around January 2018 or February 2018. We're open to any ideas.

    This purchase would also relocate me to be in the same area as my family. The move would also give us the extra $500 a month from current home renting and give my husband a better job market. 

    It seemed recently when I went to apply for a HELOC loan through Chase Bank they made it seem like I couldn't use the loan money to purchase another property. Not sure what was said to me to think that, I just was under that impression - it wasn't possible. I kinda gave up on the idea until I read your post and it ignited my goal again.

    Thanks for any help or ideas, they would be greatly appreciated,

    Sherry S.

    Bend Oregon

  • Investor · Grosse Pointe Shores, MI · Member since 2017 · 160 posts · 74 votes
    8y

    @Megan Hirlehey  You should check with your lender about the variable rate.  The one I have applied for is variable in the sense that they could increase the rate some time during your 10 years, but that my rate is locked in on the money I borrow at the moment I draw funds.  I could be mistaken about this, but that is what I was told today.

  • Sunnyvale, CA · Member since 2017 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    8y

    @Sherry Sprayberry Yes. When I was buying my 2nd house and was in the process of getting HELOC on the then current house, I was told that if the HELOC approval goes through, they would have to consider the max HELOC amount as the current debt and adjust my debt to income ratio calculations, even if I didn't actually withdraw any amount from HELOC yet. It kind of makes sense, because what they want to make sure is that any debt that you are legally bound to pay back is considered while looking at your monthly income/expenditure and an open line with HELOC falls under that category.

    So, when your banker told you that you cannot use the HELOC money towards another house, what he probably meant was that given the debt to income ratio you have, you may not be able to pull the numbers to buy another house after taking a HELOC - that is my guess.

  • Accountant · CO · Member since 2018 · 195 posts · 23 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Mike H.:

    I actually close on a heloc that I got on my primary residence. This bank went to 100% LTV on the heloc. Here were the terms:

    TERMS APPROVED:

    $100,000 – line of credit which is max we can offer at 100% loan to value

    Rate = 5.88% variable OR 1.63% above prime rate

    No required payoffs

    Rate includes .40% discount for taking at least a $40,000 draw at closing


    I'm also going to refi one of my investment properties to 75%. They could have done it on one rental property as a heloc but my stuff is almost all under my corp and they required 6 mos of seasoning for the property to be in my name so I would have had to quit claim it and wait 6 mos.  Instead I'm going to just do a basic refi.

    But there are some unique heloc's out there for sure. And most of them do take some time - it just goes with the business.  Real estate is all about hurry up and wait - with a strong emphasis on wait. :-)

    Hi Mike,

    May I ask you which bank it is did the 100% LTV HELOC? THANK YOU!

  • Rental Property Investor · Manteno, IL · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    @Ashley Zhang Huntington National Bank did the 100% LTV>

  • Accountant · CO · Member since 2018 · 195 posts · 23 votes
    8y

    Thanks mike!

  • Accountant · CO · Member since 2018 · 195 posts · 23 votes
    8y

    One more question for you Mike, when you take apply the HELOC, was the appraisal a in house full appraisal or drive by? Thanks!

  • Real Estate Investor · chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 231 votes
    8y

    Huntington does drive bys for primary; walk ins for rentals. I got a heloc at 70% for a rental but I don't think they do them if you have an llc (gotta be under your name).

  • Member since 2018 · 79 posts · 5 votes
    8y

    What is HELOC ? I have few cash but I am new in this real estate. I am not familiar with financing and I am still afraid to do it.

    If I have someone to teach me, make me more confident, I can overcome my fear.

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