First wholesale deal. Traditional mortgage. *100% BPers.*

First wholesale deal. Traditional mortgage. *100% BPers.*

Chris MasonPro Member
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Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes

This was a unique transaction, and as much as I'd like to say I've "been there, done that, seen it all," this was my first transaction involving a wholesaler. 

Cast of characters: 

@Account Closed - Wonky-deal-friendly escrow officer. I believe in giving credit where due: she is good at putting up with my BS.

Me - Lender for end-buyers who are sitting pretty in a 30 year fixed with the normal (read: minimal) owner-occupied down payment.

On my end, literally everyone in my company said this was impossible to put together while complying with all the normal mortgage rules. I had many conversations. The way they played out was "you can't do that" - "why?" - "because xyz" - "ok but we're going to do xyA, not xyZ" - "ok but you still can't do it" - and one by one I overcame all objections (btw this is one where you ask the end-lender what to write in the contract, not the other way around). Even after overcoming each and every itemized objection, I was still told repeatedly "it's not going to happen" by small-picture people who could not grasp that there's no rule explicitly against this.

Ya know what it means when someone who doesn't understand the situation says "no" but can't articulate why? It means "yes, but I don't know it yet." So you convince them by doing it, and asking forgiveness rather than permission. I have some polite "I told you so" phone calls to make tomorrow.

We did have some bumps in the road. Honestly this was not the sexiest/smoothest transaction I've worked on, but hey it was my first wholesale deal as a traditional lender, and I learned a lot. 

I do not believe Chelsea made a super duper killing, but she came out ahead and we all learned enough so that net profits in the future should be larger now that we know our limitations/parameters/etc of staying in "soft money" world with these deals, combined with what Shari's transactional end-lender's expect.

The theoretical framework here is that if wholesalers can expand their marketing to include end-buyer owner occupants using Fannie/Freddie financing, that vastly wider pool of potential buyers should let them unload the property for much closer to full retail than if they can only sell to folks using hard money or all cash that aren't going to live there. Now, in practice, this is constrained by what transactional hard money mortgage rates/terms look like, which is the financing that the wholesaler must use. It's a little uglier than vanilla hard money, but if the spread between "all cash" and "traditionally financed end-buyer with minimal down payment" values is large enough, it'll be worth it. You've got to find that balance, it will be very deal specific. Shari did not lend based on anything to do with Chelsea, but based on looking at the loan approval and appraisal of the end buyers, which makes sense. 

Tying it up "all cash" with a 60 day close of escrow (LOL!) helps too. Incidentally, I'm pretty sure that everyone won on this except the seller. 

  • Chelsea made money and learned, so she won. 
  • I lost money because it was a baby deal and opportunity cost is a thing, but I learned a lot, so big picture I won. 
  • Shari and her end-lenders won. 
  • Shannon... I made you do a lot of extra BS, you can comment here if you won or not. 
  • The original seller lost out. But the original seller is a big bank that likes to cause Great Recessions and has the IQ of a potato (see above: "all cash, 60 day close..."), so F em. 
  • End buyers won too: appraiser was being super conservative (I told her in no uncertain terms what all was going on; there was no fraud or secrecy in any facet this transaction), but even according to that appraisal the end buyers got it for about 5% less than appraised value. Who knows what an 'impartial' appraisal would bring it in at, but end-buyer's father is a contractor who will be fixing that place up big time without charging what a contractor normally charges, so it's moot.

OK, that's all I got. Was a fun and unique deal. All BP team made it happen.

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Escrow Officer · Temecula, Ca. · Member since 2016 · 418 posts · 152 votes
10y

It was definitely a win for me, in a lot of ways! Having an ALL BP TEAM was pretty cool, too!! 

I loved being able to call our end buyer on the phone yesterday to tell her that their loan funded and they will be first-time homebuyers! We all do this for money but at the end of this deal there is a couple moving into their first home together where they will start a family (they are also getting married later this year) and they are excited for their future, a goal everyone should have in America. She almost cried on the phone in disbelief. *heart melting*

Being a part of the bigger picture gives our professions relevance and that is why working in an ethical manner matters, especially when getting creative. :)

It solidified working business relationships, which is another key to success in this business. The dollars aside, again.

I also had my first end-lender hurdle on a double that I had not encountered before, that is just the evolution of lending in California, and we are always learning and adjusting along the way.  

Every transaction, closed or cancelled, bad or good, has takeaways for everyone involved, it is all about perspective.

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  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    10y

    That's awesome, Chris. Well done by the whole 'team' working together toward a common goal. Love the way you overcame each little objection . It's almost like they are  looking for reasons to say no, right?  

    The mind fears what it doesn't understand. This is huge. A new frontier. Well done!

  • Wholesaler · Mckinleyville, CA · Member since 2015 · 192 posts · 69 votes
    10y

    Chris, this deal was such a learning opportunity, thank you for not being one of the naysayers when I was first trying to put this deal together. I went through a bunch of " you can't do that" as well, and it feels great knowing that we overcame the challenges and did somthing we had never done before. 

    And for the record, I made more money than I would have selling to a cash buyer. It was a little more lengthy but for the experience gained I think it was worth it. 

  • Chris MasonPro Member
    Moderator
    OP
    Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    And for the record, I made more money than I would have selling to a cash buyer. It was a little more lengthy but for the experience gained I think it was worth it. 

     Excellent! I wasn't sure if that was the case or not.

  • Escrow Officer · Temecula, Ca. · Member since 2016 · 418 posts · 152 votes
    10y

    It was definitely a win for me, in a lot of ways! Having an ALL BP TEAM was pretty cool, too!! 

    I loved being able to call our end buyer on the phone yesterday to tell her that their loan funded and they will be first-time homebuyers! We all do this for money but at the end of this deal there is a couple moving into their first home together where they will start a family (they are also getting married later this year) and they are excited for their future, a goal everyone should have in America. She almost cried on the phone in disbelief. *heart melting*

    Being a part of the bigger picture gives our professions relevance and that is why working in an ethical manner matters, especially when getting creative. :)

    It solidified working business relationships, which is another key to success in this business. The dollars aside, again.

    I also had my first end-lender hurdle on a double that I had not encountered before, that is just the evolution of lending in California, and we are always learning and adjusting along the way.  

    Every transaction, closed or cancelled, bad or good, has takeaways for everyone involved, it is all about perspective.

  • Lender · St. Louis, MO · Member since 2009 · 348 posts · 164 votes
    10y

    I was very happy to be part of this transaction. The key element here was the communication between @Chris Mason  a ton of money. 

    I love overcoming obstacles. It is very satisfying and I was thrilled to be working with Chris who had the same mind-set!

  • Real Estate Professional · Fullerton, CA · Member since 2015 · 9 posts · 6 votes
    10y

    A lot of the private hard money lenders are not familiar with wholesale transaction and also most REO or bank own sales will not allow it. Wholesale start to be more common in SOCAL, as an underwriter for private money lender this is treated as regular purchase. The hurtle on wholesale if there's a double escrow on the transaction and when escrow and title will not allow such transaction because of policy and title insurance coverage. Or REO as a seller like big banks may not allow due to their policy of 90 days rule using future value of the subject property. Not unless the transaction are being done to a standard sale not an REO or short sale then wholesale should be treated as regular purchase. Hope this help.

  • Lender · Elk Grove, CA · Member since 2016 · 190 posts · 94 votes
    10y

    Great job, everyone. Glad you were able to get a unique deal done and that you shared it with us.

    @Account Closed Can you share how the end buyers were found? I'm trying to understand a little more about how I could connect with end buyers. Was it through word-of-mouth, or other marketing?

  • Escrow Officer · Temecula, Ca. · Member since 2016 · 418 posts · 152 votes
    10y

    @Paul Alvarez, Party A was an REO and they did not have a problem with the Double Escrow, I have to legslly include this disclosure in my Escrow Instructions. REO's don't all have the deed restriction, most issues arise with Short Sale lenders and then it is a tiered restriction based on profit and timing.

    If you use the right vendors (title, escrow, and lenders), you can get just about anything done.

  • Lender · St. Louis, MO · Member since 2009 · 348 posts · 164 votes
    10y

    @Shannon Wright is right -- it is sooo important to have vendors on your team that really know their stuff and know how to ethically and legally overcome any hurdles the deal throws at you. I commend both Shannon and @Chris Mason  on both their knowledge and professionalism.

  • Escrow Officer · Temecula, Ca. · Member since 2016 · 418 posts · 152 votes
    10y

    Thanks, @Shari Peterson! :)

  • Rental Property Investor · Decatur, GA · Member since 2016 · 155 posts · 57 votes
    10y

    Love it!!! Great job @Chris Mason on being creative and doing whatever it takes to get the deal done! 

    All the Best,

    Will G

  • Wholesaler · Mckinleyville, CA · Member since 2015 · 192 posts · 69 votes
    10y

    @Jake Knight

    I had made a cash offer on an REO, which other people had bid on with conventional financing. Even though their bids were for more than mine was, the bank took my lower cash offer instead.

    I had gotten the house for a few buyers of mine, thinking that they were looking for a quick rehab, but the we're looking for something with a bit more meat on the bone, even if it took them longer. So I threw an ad up on Craigslist looking for another cash buyer. I was contacted by one of the people who had bid more for the same house but didn't win. That's who I ended up selling to, and I'm very happy that it worked out for everyone involved. 

  • Chris MasonPro Member
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    OP
    Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    @Jake Knight

    I had made a cash offer on an REO, which other people had bid on with conventional financing. Even though their bids were for more than mine was, the bank took my lower cash offer instead.

    I had gotten the house for a few buyers of mine, thinking that they were looking for a quick rehab, but the we're looking for something with a bit more meat on the bone, even if it took them longer. So I threw an ad up on Craigslist looking for another cash buyer. I was contacted by one of the people who had bid more for the same house but didn't win. That's who I ended up selling to, and I'm very happy that it worked out for everyone involved. 

     Worth noting that Chelsea's offer was all cash with a 60 day close. Any human with an IQ greater than a cabbage instantly knows that "60 day close" is not truly "all cash." And indeed this "all cash" deal involved not one but two mortgages. 

    But the big bank is not a human with an IQ greater than a cabbage. They accepted an "all cash" 60 day COE offer. That "all cash" offer had an appraisal, could have had two appraisals, had multiple underwrites of multiple mortgages, etc. 60 days is a lot of time to make "all cash" a funny phrase. 

    All made possible by exploiting the stupidity of big banks.

    I do believe Chelsea's earnest money was at risk if she couldn't line up an end-buyer.

  • Wholesaler · Mckinleyville, CA · Member since 2015 · 192 posts · 69 votes
    10y

    @Chris Mason Actually I had written the offer with a 30 day close, the Bank was the one that set the closing date so far out.

    And yes my deposit was on the line. But that's the way I like to work, with honesty. I always intended on closing on the property.

  • Dylan VargasPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Chico, CA · Member since 2016 · 625 posts · 336 votes
    10y

    @Chris Mason is the man. He really came through on a deal for me that no other lender said was possible. The deal couldn't finalize however due to my seller wanting al cash in 10 days. Chris did get me approved for financing when no one else could or would even try. This was a multi unit family property. Chris really knows his stuff. Feel free to correct me on any of this Chris. Thank s again.

  • Chris MasonPro Member
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    Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    10y

    @Dylan Vargas - I REALLY wanted to do that first-in-kind deal too. On the one that this thread is the subject of, all our internal people said "no Chris you can't do that" but it was done anyways.

    Yours, I was at least getting hesitant "well, in theory yes..." answers. So much stronger than Chelsea's "nope, can't be done period." heh.

  • Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2015 · 345 posts · 138 votes
    10y

    This is really something. Way over my head but so much fun to read all the angles that this deal had to go through.  Wow.  Well done @Chris Mason and everyone involved! Thanks for posting too as this is excellent information for someone like me to see all the different sides of how deals can be accomplished.  

  • Chris MasonPro Member
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    Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Paul Alvarez:

    A lot of the private hard money lenders are not familiar with wholesale transaction and also most REO or bank own sales will not allow it.

     ...I don't think the big bank knew. The listing agent knew, but @Account Closed didn't write "this is a wholesale deal" in her offer or anything.

  • Lender · Granite Bay, CA · Member since 2014 · 456 posts · 454 votes
    10y

    @Chris Mason  It would be great to hear the whole story. I read the thread but lots of details are missing.  I am sure a lot of people like me are interested in how the deal was found, why it was believed to be a good deal, how much was paid for the property, how much work did it need, was any work done to the home before the end-buyers purchased, how much did it ultimately sell for, what kind of financing did they get, etc... I know that's a lot of questions, but it sounds like an interesting story, so it would be great to hear way more details!  

    I deal with wholesalers all the time with my investing group, and I buy flips etc..., like many investors here. I have thought many times that it would be great to buy the wholesale deal and resell to an end-buyer (who will always pay more than an investor) , but the home is usually in need of too much repair for a Fannie or Freddie or FHA deal. It would be great to hear more about how all that happened, and more details about how you made the loan work, or what type of loan you did.

    Congrats on making it happen!

  • Nashville, TN · Member since 2016 · 99 posts · 28 votes
    10y
    Just awesome guys! This is the perfect example of having the proper team in place & how BP can connect you with those people. Great job guys on working ethically & not letting small time thinkers tell you what will or won't work. I also would love to hear some of the obstacles y'all encountered. And if the end buyers father wasn't a contractor willing to do the work at no cost would it had been "meat on the bone" for all involved? (Except for Chris M. of course but he still won)
  • Nashville, TN · Member since 2016 · 99 posts · 28 votes
    10y
    *as much* "meat on the bone"
  • Chris MasonPro Member
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    Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @David Oldenburg:

    @Chris Mason  It would be great to hear the whole story. I read the thread but lots of details are missing.  I am sure a lot of people like me are interested in how the deal was found, why it was believed to be a good deal, how much was paid for the property, how much work did it need, was any work done to the home before the end-buyers purchased, how much did it ultimately sell for, what kind of financing did they get, etc... I know that's a lot of questions, but it sounds like an interesting story, so it would be great to hear way more details!  

    I deal with wholesalers all the time with my investing group, and I buy flips etc..., like many investors here. I have thought many times that it would be great to buy the wholesale deal and resell to an end-buyer (who will always pay more than an investor) , but the home is usually in need of too much repair for a Fannie or Freddie or FHA deal. It would be great to hear more about how all that happened, and more details about how you made the loan work, or what type of loan you did.

    Congrats on making it happen!

     Hi David,

    Most of that stuff is Chelsea's private information and it's really not my place to share. 

    The end-buyers (who aren't on here and who you have no way of finding) did 3% down, w/ PMI, 30 year fixed, 4.125%, Fannie Mae, with a lender credit to help with closing costs. These end buyers were determined to get this house no matter what (now that the deal is done, I'm comfy letting Chelsea know that), but I strongly suspect they would not have been willing to go to the price point they did if they were forced to use hard money.

    One of the biggest obstacles I faced was the father/father-in-law of the end buyers. Not sensitive at all to Chelsea's transactional funding carrying costs. Telling the girls "oh that's Chelsea's problem, don't worry about it, it says right here on the contract that we have a zillion days to close," which I had to do my best to counter-balance with "ummm we gotta get moving girls, go go go, is there any reason you can't have [insert task here] done tonight by 6 pm?"

  • Bulawayo, Zimbabwe · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 253 votes
    10y

    congratulations on the deal.creativity at work

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