We're being overrun by fake finance, investing, and RE gurus

We're being overrun by fake finance, investing, and RE gurus

Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 887 posts · 1k+ votes

Who's your favorite fake guru?

Oh my... this is not an easy question - so many to chose from. From the fake lifestyles, the rented yachts, private jets, Lamborghini's/ Ferrari's, and most of all the fake success. One thing that almost all of these gurus have in common is that they built their "wealth" (or at least a vast majority of it) from their students, not from investments!!! This can be from selling courses, memberships, subscriptions, or just forming a large cult following which carries sponsorships and high ad revenue. And of course, if you follow them, watch all their videos, and purchase their courses you can be successful just like them! or not. 

On a serious note folks, please, please do not listen to "gurus" for investing advice. Join a local REIA and network with folks on forums like BP where real investors who operate in the real-world are. This fantasy land where grifters are promising insane returns (100%-5,000%) is a scam. Plain and simple.

One of my favorites, Brian Rose... 

Brian is a serial grifter well known for his get rich quick scams... "How to go from zero to a seven-figure business". He recently partnered with "the wolf of wall street" convicted felon & well-known fraudster Jordan Belfort. These two recently offered a two-day "crypto, DeFi, NFT, and Metaverse mastermind" for a whopping $24,000!!!!  

Another one of my favorites is "Swaggy C" from the "Swag Academy". An exact quote from him "9:00-5:00's are the biggest scams in the world!" He sells "forex training", which packages have totaled over $3,300. Those who have performed an analysis of it have found it to be very, very close to other material readily available on the internet for free. Basically a slight rebranding of other info that's already "out there". 

Honorable mention is Graham Stephan.

Graham is a new breed in this arena, a "high-tech" innovator of sorts. He is much more subtle, no direct "get rich quick" claims from him. Most who are familiar with him would agree that he had some generally good info (although rudimentary) on his channel when he first started. He has since went full click-baiter with the sole goal of getting a lot of likes & subscribers for ad revenue. He has fed off the idea that he is a multi-millionaire and achieved most of his wealth in his 20s. However, truth is that he has made most of his money from being a social media influencer. It's estimated that he made $6,000,000 alone from his primary YouTube channel in 2021. he also has several other YouTube channels, and a $500 course geared toward those wanting to be a realtor. He previously worked as a realtor in "selling sunset" reality show and has since become a celebrity realtor. You're not likely to get scammed out of a lot of money (yet) from following Graham. But you will waste a lot of time and watch videos that are 95% sensationalism to get a few small nugget of information. 

These are a few thumbs from his YouTube channel, and yes, they are real! lol


**Disclaimer because fake guru's like to sue people when they are exposed. 

All points made in this thread are an opinion and in no way should be construed as statements of fact. scams, bad business opportunities, and fake gurus are subjective terms that mean different things to different people. I think someone who promises $100K/month for an upfront fee of $2K is a scam. 


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Member since 2022 · 54 posts · 47 votes
4y

For me, it's Grant Cardone. A lot of folks buy into him, but I attended his conference in Las Vegas a few years back and have never felt more ripped off. 

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  • Rental Property Investor · RVA · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    4y

    Anyone interested in this topic should follow Ballerbusters on Instagram, Coffeezilla on YouTube, and Spencer Cornelia (also on YouTube). 

  • Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 887 posts · 1k+ votes
    4y

    Yup, some of those guys have some good content. Thx @Taylor L.

  • Member since 2022 · 54 posts · 47 votes
    4y

    For me, it's Grant Cardone. A lot of folks buy into him, but I attended his conference in Las Vegas a few years back and have never felt more ripped off. 

  • Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 887 posts · 1k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Trevor Oldham:

    For me, it's Grant Cardone. A lot of folks buy into him, but I attended his conference in Las Vegas a few years back and have never felt more ripped off. 

    Lol yup, Grant Cardone. What a joker that guys is. I was recently watching a court proceeding where attorneys were presenting evidence against him. He might be able to evade charges of defrauding his investors, but he can't escape how poor his capital investments were. They laid out a few deals where he paid significantly over value for different properties and lost money. This was at a time that virtually any purchase (2018-2019) was going to make money. 

    Out of curiosity how much did you pay for his conference, and did you purchase any additional training?

    And thanks for sharing this. No shame whatsoever... this guy is a really good scammer, gets a lot of people. 

  • Member since 2022 · 54 posts · 47 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Greg R.:
    Quote from @Trevor Oldham:

    For me, it's Grant Cardone. A lot of folks buy into him, but I attended his conference in Las Vegas a few years back and have never felt more ripped off. 

    Lol yup, Grant Cardone. What a joker that guys is. I was recently watching a court proceeding where attorneys were presenting evidence against him. He might be able to evade charges of defrauding his investors, but he can't escape how poor his capital investments were. They laid out a few deals where he paid significantly over value for different properties and lost money. This was at a time that virtually any purchase (2018-2019) was going to make money. 

    Out of curiosity how much did you pay for his conference, and did you purchase any additional training?

    And thanks for sharing this. No shame whatsoever... this guy is a really good scammer, gets a lot of people. 


     I believe I paid around $500 ticket for the event. I do recall purchasing books him his online store and never getting them and then his team never responding. There's one investor I follow and he's been harping on Grant for a while for saying you can overpay for any property no matte where... I would suffice to say he was right

  • Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 887 posts · 1k+ votes
    4y

    Sucks that you spent $500 for the ticket and got burned on the books. If it's any consolation, you're probably better off having not received the books. 

    In contrast to other people who were scammed by him, you got off lite. Happy to see that you're on the right track now on BP. 

  • Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    4y

    Almost always... It takes money to make money.

    The more you have the more you might make.

    There is a floor amount of money you will need to be able to be (more likely) to make money.

    Zero (or thereabouts) is most likely a stalled hand in most things.

    Go for the GOLD!

    Just my 2 cents.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Taylor L.:

    Anyone interested in this topic should follow Ballerbusters on Instagram, Coffeezilla on YouTube, and Spencer Cornelia (also on YouTube). 


     I remember Spencer starting out here on BP and i think he lives in Vegas.. but thats the power of U tube .. i am late to the U tube party having not looked at it up until a few years ago.. its quite something and it truly is a wealth builder maker if you hit it right and stay consistent daily at it..  

    there is the other guy  Like Kevin i think it is done well.  But got to hand it to Spencer though I think he has done a pretty neat job.  I have not watched any of his in the last few months.   

    now you have the doom and gloom Real estate is dead and every investors is going to go broke along with home builders there is one kid on there that really cherry picks his info..  and his adoring fans are like:  good for those greedy investors they should lose all their money  he feeds right into that mentality. 

  • Lender · Washington DC · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    If you attended a scam feel free to share the content on your no name blog and deflate the hot air balloon, private plane, and jewels.

    A seminar with 200 attendees and speaker on stage for two hours might be worth $25 if you learn something. At a minimum, try to network with everyone and get a bag of business cards. 

    There are so many conferences you could spend $1500 every day to attend where 20 companies have booths and there is one influencer speaker. I hope the cold bologna sandwich and the pep talk is worth the admission, generally you can get someone with a booth to provide a free ticket.

    Nothing is easy peasy. This market is going to be a rough rodeo for two years. Get yourself and your team ready to buy deals. Research is good, but failure is a fabulous teacher. I bet no one on this thread will pay hard earned money for a dog and pony show again.

  • Rental Property Investor · Prince George's County, MD · Member since 2022 · 177 posts · 187 votes
    4y

    Great post.

    I make it a practice to write off anyone who market themselves in photos with luxury cars, lol.  It's just too obvious they're most often fraudsters who prey on gullible people that are attracted to "status symbols" and therefore buy into the hype.

    Just from looking at the photos, it didn't surprise me at all those you mentioned offer little to no real substantive information on the industry.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Greg R.:
    Quote from @Trevor Oldham:

    For me, it's Grant Cardone. A lot of folks buy into him, but I attended his conference in Las Vegas a few years back and have never felt more ripped off. 

    Lol yup, Grant Cardone. What a joker that guys is. I was recently watching a court proceeding where attorneys were presenting evidence against him. He might be able to evade charges of defrauding his investors, but he can't escape how poor his capital investments were. They laid out a few deals where he paid significantly over value for different properties and lost money. This was at a time that virtually any purchase (2018-2019) was going to make money. 

    Out of curiosity how much did you pay for his conference, and did you purchase any additional training?

    And thanks for sharing this. No shame whatsoever... this guy is a really good scammer, gets a lot of people. 


     I saw a video of Grants new G 550  you dont buy that airplane with smoke and mirrors or even lease it yet alone pay to fly and maintain it.. so he is making some serious dough somewhere. 

  • Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 887 posts · 1k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Greg R.:
    Quote from @Trevor Oldham:

    For me, it's Grant Cardone. A lot of folks buy into him, but I attended his conference in Las Vegas a few years back and have never felt more ripped off. 

    Lol yup, Grant Cardone. What a joker that guys is. I was recently watching a court proceeding where attorneys were presenting evidence against him. He might be able to evade charges of defrauding his investors, but he can't escape how poor his capital investments were. They laid out a few deals where he paid significantly over value for different properties and lost money. This was at a time that virtually any purchase (2018-2019) was going to make money. 

    Out of curiosity how much did you pay for his conference, and did you purchase any additional training?

    And thanks for sharing this. No shame whatsoever... this guy is a really good scammer, gets a lot of people. 


     I saw a video of Grants new G 550  you dont buy that airplane with smoke and mirrors or even lease it yet alone pay to fly and maintain it.. so he is making some serious dough somewhere. 


     Yes, he's a con artist who steals money from his investors. Plus he rips of people for thousands selling them training plans and "mentorship". Guy is one of the biggest crooks out there. He is certainly not wealthy from investing, its from all the suckers who follow him. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Greg R.:
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Greg R.:
    Quote from @Trevor Oldham:

    For me, it's Grant Cardone. A lot of folks buy into him, but I attended his conference in Las Vegas a few years back and have never felt more ripped off. 

    Lol yup, Grant Cardone. What a joker that guys is. I was recently watching a court proceeding where attorneys were presenting evidence against him. He might be able to evade charges of defrauding his investors, but he can't escape how poor his capital investments were. They laid out a few deals where he paid significantly over value for different properties and lost money. This was at a time that virtually any purchase (2018-2019) was going to make money. 

    Out of curiosity how much did you pay for his conference, and did you purchase any additional training?

    And thanks for sharing this. No shame whatsoever... this guy is a really good scammer, gets a lot of people. 


     I saw a video of Grants new G 550  you dont buy that airplane with smoke and mirrors or even lease it yet alone pay to fly and maintain it.. so he is making some serious dough somewhere. 


     Yes, he's a con artist who steals money from his investors. Plus he rips of people for thousands selling them training plans and "mentorship". Guy is one of the biggest crooks out there. He is certainly not wealthy from investing, its from all the suckers who follow him. 


     he had a very popular BP podcast and I still think its in the Archives..  I think he is a MF syndicator as well.. so we know there is big money in that if you hit it right.

  • Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 887 posts · 1k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Greg R.:
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Greg R.:
    Quote from @Trevor Oldham:

    For me, it's Grant Cardone. A lot of folks buy into him, but I attended his conference in Las Vegas a few years back and have never felt more ripped off. 

    Lol yup, Grant Cardone. What a joker that guys is. I was recently watching a court proceeding where attorneys were presenting evidence against him. He might be able to evade charges of defrauding his investors, but he can't escape how poor his capital investments were. They laid out a few deals where he paid significantly over value for different properties and lost money. This was at a time that virtually any purchase (2018-2019) was going to make money. 

    Out of curiosity how much did you pay for his conference, and did you purchase any additional training?

    And thanks for sharing this. No shame whatsoever... this guy is a really good scammer, gets a lot of people. 


     I saw a video of Grants new G 550  you dont buy that airplane with smoke and mirrors or even lease it yet alone pay to fly and maintain it.. so he is making some serious dough somewhere. 


     Yes, he's a con artist who steals money from his investors. Plus he rips of people for thousands selling them training plans and "mentorship". Guy is one of the biggest crooks out there. He is certainly not wealthy from investing, its from all the suckers who follow him. 


     he had a very popular BP podcast and I still think its in the Archives..  I think he is a MF syndicator as well.. so we know there is big money in that if you hit it right.

    I heard some of his very early stuff, and he actually sounded like a smart and reasonable person. He had measured advice about the importance of spending, building reserves, etc. 

    However, he learned that flaunting a millionaire lifestyle with jets, mansions, yachts, etc., was more appealing to the public. He used that to suck them to buying his training courses and other material. @Trevor Oldham spent $500 on his seminar and who knows how much more on books. Others have spent tens of thousands to learn "the secret" to becoming a millionaire. Smoke and mirrors. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Greg R.:
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Greg R.:
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Greg R.:
    Quote from @Trevor Oldham:

    For me, it's Grant Cardone. A lot of folks buy into him, but I attended his conference in Las Vegas a few years back and have never felt more ripped off. 

    Lol yup, Grant Cardone. What a joker that guys is. I was recently watching a court proceeding where attorneys were presenting evidence against him. He might be able to evade charges of defrauding his investors, but he can't escape how poor his capital investments were. They laid out a few deals where he paid significantly over value for different properties and lost money. This was at a time that virtually any purchase (2018-2019) was going to make money. 

    Out of curiosity how much did you pay for his conference, and did you purchase any additional training?

    And thanks for sharing this. No shame whatsoever... this guy is a really good scammer, gets a lot of people. 


     I saw a video of Grants new G 550  you dont buy that airplane with smoke and mirrors or even lease it yet alone pay to fly and maintain it.. so he is making some serious dough somewhere. 


     Yes, he's a con artist who steals money from his investors. Plus he rips of people for thousands selling them training plans and "mentorship". Guy is one of the biggest crooks out there. He is certainly not wealthy from investing, its from all the suckers who follow him. 


     he had a very popular BP podcast and I still think its in the Archives..  I think he is a MF syndicator as well.. so we know there is big money in that if you hit it right.

    I heard some of his very early stuff, and he actually sounded like a smart and reasonable person. He had measured advice about the importance of spending, building reserves, etc. 

    However, he learned that flaunting a millionaire lifestyle with jets, mansions, yachts, etc., was more appealing to the public. He used that to suck them to buying his training courses and other material. @Trevor Oldham spent $500 on his seminar and who knows how much more on books. Others have spent tens of thousands to learn "the secret" to becoming a millionaire. Smoke and mirrors. 


     well I dont know him personally never done anything with him.  I just know what planes cost having been and owner pilot LOL.. 

  • Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 887 posts · 1k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Malkia Ra:

    Great post.

    I make it a practice to write off anyone who market themselves in photos with luxury cars, lol.  It's just too obvious they're most often fraudsters who prey on gullible people that are attracted to "status symbols" and therefore buy into the hype.

    Just from looking at the photos, it didn't surprise me at all those you mentioned offer little to no real substantive information on the industry.

    That's a great rule of thumb. I've found that people who try to flaunt their wealth and talk about how much money they have are generally not doing nearly as good as they lead on. They are all about maintaining an image and keeping up with the joneses. 

    I am lucky enough to know a legitimate multi-millionaire. I don't know his worth exactly, but it's above 50m. An older gentleman and one of the most humble people I know. Extremely soft spoken, wears worn off brand clothes and only get his hair cut about two or three times a year. He also drove the same car from 1990 to 2020. 

    I know some other (less) wealthy folks and they are also very private about their finances. If you're not part of their inner circle you'd have no clue. 


  • Rental Property Investor · Prince George's County, MD · Member since 2022 · 177 posts · 187 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Greg R.:
    Quote from @Malkia Ra:

    Great post.

    I make it a practice to write off anyone who market themselves in photos with luxury cars, lol.  It's just too obvious they're most often fraudsters who prey on gullible people that are attracted to "status symbols" and therefore buy into the hype.

    Just from looking at the photos, it didn't surprise me at all those you mentioned offer little to no real substantive information on the industry.

    That's a great rule of thumb. I've found that people who try to flaunt their wealth and talk about how much money they have are generally not doing nearly as good as they lead on. They are all about maintaining an image and keeping up with the joneses. 

    I am lucky enough to know a legitimate multi-millionaire. I don't know his worth exactly, but it's above 50m. An older gentleman and one of the most humble people I know. Extremely soft spoken, wears worn off brand clothes and only get his hair cut about two or three times a year. He also drove the same car from 1990 to 2020. 

    I know some other (less) wealthy folks and they are also very private about their finances. If you're not part of their inner circle you'd have no clue. 


    Precisely, Greg.  And those examples you mentioned are the caliber of people I'd rather connect with and pull advice from.
  • Real Estate Agent · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2020 · 4 posts · 0 votes
    4y

    @Greg R. I noticed you said join a local REIA. What REIA here in Dallas would you recommend? I got burned on my first two that I found before joining BP.

  • Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 887 posts · 1k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Tawaine Hall:

    @Greg R. I noticed you said join a local REIA. What REIA here in Dallas would you recommend? I got burned on my first two that I found before joining BP.

    Hello Tawaine, really good question. I just moved here from San Diego and haven't yet identified one. Sorry to hear you've had a bad experience. Would you mind explaining how you got burned? 

  • Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    I have people message me sometimes who fall for these get rich quick gurus and once I tell them the realistic returns i can find them in an investment property they disappear.

  • Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 887 posts · 1k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Henry Lazerow:

    I have people message me sometimes who fall for these get rich quick gurus and once I tell them the realistic returns i can find them in an investment property they disappear.

    Ha! I believe it. I don't know what it is, but people are drawn to "get rich quick" schemes like a fly to flame. You pair that with these slick talking salesman who are standing in front of a lambo or private jet, and it's a wrap. 

    Being a fake guru is much more lucrative than being an actual investor. They make a ton of money off growing a following and pumping out YouTube videos for ad revenue. That's usually phase 1, then they move into phase 2 which is selling courses which are basically free information that's branded with their name & logo. 

    What's funny is that most these guys make a ton of unsubstantiated claims. "Last week I made $221,000, the week before I made $186,323", etc. They buy prop money from Amazon, rent yachts, rent exotic cars, etc. It's all part of the act to attract people and build a following. 

    Guys like Grant Cardone are actually very wealthy, his wealth is definitely real. But a majority is from selling training & mentorship programs to his followers - not from RE investing. 

  • Real Estate Broker · Coppell, TX · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    4y

    Fun post.

    I tell almost everyone I know if you have $25000 or $50,000 to invest in real estate training, lets put that money in real estate instead of training. Much better chance of success even if you don't have one clue.  At least at the exit you probably get all or most of your capital back.  Maybe you learn some lessons along the way.   However at the end of $50,000 of training, you have nothing but likely a basic knowledge, but maybe no capital left to invest.  At worst maybe you have a big credit card bill at 18% interest.   If you are a bit lucky you might have some CDs and a fat binder.

    Lots of great REIAs in DFW area.....use the magnifying glass at the top right side of this page to search Dallas or Fort Worth or DFW REIA and you can find some lists. There is one that I don't like that trys to scam you for big bucks, but that is easy to figure out.

    @Tawaine Hall try Robin Carriagers REIA in Ft. Worth...typically about $20-$25/session on Saturday morning in East Ft. Worth. Small group, great people, great info in my opinion. Most smaller local investors....get rich slowly, more jeans and boots, less or no planes and Ferraris.

    GC is on a whole different level.  Saw a video of him a few weeks ago trying to explain one of his deals.   It was pretty bad, he had the bare basics down, but messed things up quite a bit.  He is obviously an excellent promoter, not sure he is a great investor.  Time will tell.  Probably ever apartment syndicator made money the past 5 years or so, but the real proof will be in the next 5 year and we find out how conservative their projections really were.  When you exit cap rate goes from 4 to 7 and the new interest rates are 7-8 vs 4-5, and your leverage falls from 80-85% to 60-65% a lot of these deals will be impossible to refinance or to sell at a profit...and a lot of people will get wiped out.

  • Gene HackerPro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Lake Isabella, CA · Member since 2011 · 969 posts · 488 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Bruce Lynn:

    Probably ever apartment syndicator made money the past 5 years or so, but the real proof will be in the next 5 year and we find out how conservative their projections really were.  When you exit cap rate goes from 4 to 7 and the new interest rates are 7-8 vs 4-5, and your leverage falls from 80-85% to 60-65% a lot of these deals will be impossible to refinance or to sell at a profit...and a lot of people will get wiped out.

    I agree. And with short-term treasuries returning 4%+, there will not be much investor interest in commercial/multifamily deals with low cap rates.  
  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Greg R.:
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Greg R.:
    Quote from @Trevor Oldham:

    For me, it's Grant Cardone. A lot of folks buy into him, but I attended his conference in Las Vegas a few years back and have never felt more ripped off. 

    Lol yup, Grant Cardone. What a joker that guys is. I was recently watching a court proceeding where attorneys were presenting evidence against him. He might be able to evade charges of defrauding his investors, but he can't escape how poor his capital investments were. They laid out a few deals where he paid significantly over value for different properties and lost money. This was at a time that virtually any purchase (2018-2019) was going to make money. 

    Out of curiosity how much did you pay for his conference, and did you purchase any additional training?

    And thanks for sharing this. No shame whatsoever... this guy is a really good scammer, gets a lot of people. 


     I saw a video of Grants new G 550  you dont buy that airplane with smoke and mirrors or even lease it yet alone pay to fly and maintain it.. so he is making some serious dough somewhere. 


     Yes, he's a con artist who steals money from his investors. Plus he rips of people for thousands selling them training plans and "mentorship". Guy is one of the biggest crooks out there. He is certainly not wealthy from investing, its from all the suckers who follow him. 


     Anyone watch undercover billionaire when grant was on it?   The premise is  “billionaires” (I use quotes because at the time most sources did not have him as a billionaire) are provided $100 and a vehicle and given like 90 days to make $1m without their contacts, name, etc.  it is my opinion having a film crew following the billionaire provides opportunity that would not otherwise exist.  

    Of the 4 billionaires that have been on the show, he is the only one that came off as sleazy. One example is the show provides a well used vehicle for each of the billionaires.  He offered to sell someone’s Wrangler but instead he sold his own vehicle, drove the wrangler all over without any attempt at selling it.  The nicer vehicle was of course better for marketing himself than the well used vehicle.  On this alone, I would be leery of participating in any of his investments. 

    by the way he used to have a BP account (or at least someone doing a good job impersonating him did).

  • Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y

    @Greg R.

    Patrick Bet David is the most recent one I've seen pop up all over social media. He's not a real estate guru but portrays himself as a success/finance/investing/entrepreneur guru. Selling conference tickets on how to survive and thrive in the recession.

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