Memphis Class C Neighborhood Investment Profile - Actual Numbers

Memphis Class C Neighborhood Investment Profile - Actual Numbers

Investor · Pasadena, CA · Member since 2013 · 28 posts · 26 votes

I’m currently focused on A- and B+ properties in Memphis because of the better tenant pool, vacancy, repairs, etc. however, I’ve heard that my overall returns may be better if I focused on a few C properties (comparisons were made between the risk and return of large and small cap stocks). However I’m hesitant because of all the challenges I’ve seen on BiggerPockets. What I (and probably others in a similar position would be interested in seeing) are some actual real life numbers (not fluffy opinions) from experienced property management companies who work in those areas (I'm looking at you @Douglas Skipworth, @alex craig, @James Wachob, @Chris Clothier, @James Martin, @Curt Davis).

Most of you are using professional property management software (such as PropertyWare, Appfolio, yardi, buildium, etc.) that makes finding this information about your portfolio fairly straight forward. I know that these kinds of numbers may be considered competitive intelligence so there may be some reservations about posting. However, as BP is a sharing space some of you may be open to it – and it would certainly go a long way to making me (and probably others) open to investing in those neighborhoods.

I think it would be great if you could filter down to a given zip code (37127, Frayser, in this case) and provide the following information:

  • Zip Code: 37127
  • Time Period (please filter your results for a three year time period, if possible, otherwise please state the period of time used)
  • Number of Properties Currently Under Management (if possible, please remove any of the properties owned by you to remove any bias; also, include properties that were held in your management for any period during this time – not just those that were held the full period)
  • Total Potential Monthly Rent (the value of rent that would have been brought in if there was no vacancy)
  • Total Contracted Monthly Rent
  • Total Rents Received
  • Total Late Fees Assessed
  • Total Late Fees Received
  • Total Deposits Collected (initially provided by tenant)
  • Total Amount of Deposits Retained (not returned to tenant due to damages, etc.)
  • Total Maintenance/Repairs/Make Ready/Expenses Paid
  • Total Number of Evictions

I’ll leave out Cost of Evictions, Utilities, Property Management Expenses, Property Insurance, financing, and Property Taxes as these may vary widely per property and may not be paid through the Property Management Company. After I get some responses I’ll make some reasonable assumptions for these and include those when I repost with the summary findings.

An example response may look like:

  • Zip Code: 37127
  • Time Period: 36 months
  • Number of Properties Under Management During This Time: 150
  • Total Potential Monthly Rent: $2,970,000
  • Total Contracted Monthly Rent: $2,673,000
  • Total Rents Received: $2,138,400
  • Total Number of Late Fees Assessed: 1,350
  • Total Amount of Late Fees Assessed: $67,500
  • Total Amount of Late Fees Received: $50,000
  • Total Deposits Collected (initially provided by tenant): $200,000
  • Total Amount of Deposits Retained (not returned to tenant due to damages, etc.): $150,000
  • Total Maintenance/Repairs/Make Ready/Expenses Paid: $400,000
  • Total Number of Evictions: 30

If you can provide the information in this format, we can get a really good picture of the investment profile for these neighborhoods. Thanks for considering it!

1Reply
40 views

Most Popular Reply

Alex CraigBusiness Member
Real Estate Professional · Memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y

@Joseph S.given that 3 providers that do a lot of volume, well one that does a ton of volume (MI) and the other 2 are selling 70 homes a year in Memphis (Curt and I) all have said they do not actively engage in 38127 is a good indication of the troubles one could face in that area.  I can't speak for Chris and Curt, but I would imagine like me, they get referral business.  Putting clients into an low income area and spinning it as anything but that is a terrible way to grow from within. I know have managed here and I know the first hand challenges the area faces. There are 3 people I can think of that I would trust in 38127 to buy from or be represented by.  Besides the 3 that I think highly of, the rest of the hucksters are bottom feeders who only have the skill set to sell properties based on false marketing and high pro forma's. If you are using leverage, it only cost about $30,000 more to buy in a better area, which basically comes out to $6,000 more out of pocket. I have seen vandalism in low income areas far more then $6,000. 

See this reply in the discussion

8 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Curt DavisBusiness Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Memphis, TN · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    @Joesph S

    Unfortunately we dont manage hardly any homes in this area so I would not be able to provide the type of data you are looking for.  I know there are several management companies who dont want to manage or sell there for several reasons.  If you were to ever truly consider buying property in this area you would want to contact Terry Kerr at Mid South Home Buyers.  He is not a BP member but for Frayser homes, he does the nicest revocations to them and you can get one for around $57,900 - $62,900.

    Also know that regardless of how nice the home is, its still Frayser and your chances of having a bad experience are far greater here then compared to other areas where you could do a lot better.  It doesnt matter how good a management company is, this area is tough so plan to have things go wrong but if they go well consider that a bonus. 

    Good luck

    Curt Davis - KAIZEN Realty538 Reviews
  • Alex CraigBusiness Member
    Real Estate Professional · Memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    @Joseph S. same here too. We have given most of our 38127 portfolio away as that is not a focus area for us. The area, unless you have a large presence is not profitable mostly because its location being so far North and higher vacancy. 9% of $0 is not very profitable for a PM company. We get request all the time to manage homes in 38127, but decline.  The last 2 we have left have long term tenants. Sorry.

    James Martin and Douglas Skipworth may be able to help.

  • Chris ClothierBusiness Member
    Rental Property Investor · memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    @Joseph S.  -  "However, as BP is a sharing space some of you may be open to it – and it would certainly go a long way to making me (and probably others) open to investing in those neighborhoods."

    Joseph, we don't seek to actively manage any property in this area and haven't for a few years.  We have slowly given up the properties we managed in this area to other management companies.  I think this quote is a key point for you to understand.  There will be some companies on here who manage in 38127 and actively continue to buy and sell properties in this area to out of state investors.  I am sure they do a great job and they should be able to give you the data you are looking for.  However, some of us have migrated away from trying to convince investors to be open to investing in 38127.

    For us, it does not make sense for our company to manage in 38127.  Managing our assets (people and time) is paramount and this zip code proved to be a poor use of those assets.  We are able to better leverage our people and time and manage more property in a more profitable manner by not managing in 38127.  

  • Investor · Gilroy, CA · Member since 2016 · 255 posts · 195 votes
    10y

    @Joseph S.

    You may consider reaching out to @Dwayne Jones, or to @Derrick Craig. I do not know why I have not made them colleagues online yet, since they both invest in Memphis, but they might have insight. In particular @Dwayne Jones has a personal goal of rehabilitating the C class areas you are referencing, and actually made a passionate post about it recently. Not only that, but Mr. Jones is a contractor and probably has very detailed numbers on the rehab costs as well. Derrick Craig has positive feedback on BP as a property manager and he may be able to help you. I am interested in the numbers myself. 

  • Alex CraigBusiness Member
    Real Estate Professional · Memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    @Joseph S.given that 3 providers that do a lot of volume, well one that does a ton of volume (MI) and the other 2 are selling 70 homes a year in Memphis (Curt and I) all have said they do not actively engage in 38127 is a good indication of the troubles one could face in that area.  I can't speak for Chris and Curt, but I would imagine like me, they get referral business.  Putting clients into an low income area and spinning it as anything but that is a terrible way to grow from within. I know have managed here and I know the first hand challenges the area faces. There are 3 people I can think of that I would trust in 38127 to buy from or be represented by.  Besides the 3 that I think highly of, the rest of the hucksters are bottom feeders who only have the skill set to sell properties based on false marketing and high pro forma's. If you are using leverage, it only cost about $30,000 more to buy in a better area, which basically comes out to $6,000 more out of pocket. I have seen vandalism in low income areas far more then $6,000. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2013 · 404 posts · 421 votes
    10y

    @Joseph S.,

    As you can see you won't find many turnkey companies in that area.  Only one or two are successful in that area.  I know from experience as I own several homes in Frasier, and again, only a few companies are successful in that zip code.  Especially starting out in Memphis, I wouldn't start there unless you are ok with high turnover, repairs and evictions.  The trick, or should I say gamble, is that you find a good person/family to be the tenants.

    I know Douglas Skipworth and he manages several of my homes and his company has good property management if you want to buy and pay to have the home repaired.  I also know Alex Craig, I meet with him when I go out to Memphis, and Chris Clothier, his company is the biggest in the US.  I met Chris for the first time in person a few weeks ago and chat with him often on BP.  Curt Davis is also very experienced in Memphis and sells many homes.  So I would follow their advice. 

    You are asking for a lot of details but I can sum it up quickly using a very small sampling since I have 12 homes there and an investor from CA.  Frasier is a lot of work.  The returns are higher when you get a good tenant as they maintain the home and pay their rent.  It takes longer to find that tenant though and may take 3-4 turnovers to find the right one.

    Good luck.

  • Investor · Pasadena, CA · Member since 2013 · 28 posts · 26 votes
    10y

    @Alexander Price Thanks for the referrals. I’d love to hear detailed feedback from any of those you suggested.

    @David Hutson Thanks for the response. I did look into turnkey, but based on the limited returns I decided to go the route you mentioned regarding buying and paying to have the homes repaired - so far it's working out quite well in the areas I’m investing. I am willing to take on additional risk (in the forms of higher turnover, repairs, evictions, etc.) if the returns are high enough to make it worth it (I'm thinking of it as small cap or international stocks). However, I’m not willing to take on the risk without a well founded estimate of what I should expect. I appreciate you sharing your personal experience and it does help to show that some people are making a go of it in Frayser, however I think I need a broader pool to better gauge the asset base.

    In all honesty, I've seen a number of people who do manage large portfolios post positively in other threads regarding investing in this area, so I'm trying not to read too heavily into the fact that they aren't willing to share their results (but who knows, maybe they just haven't had an opportunity to respond yet). For the time being, I’m going to take the advice of most of those who shared their experience on this thread (thank you @Curt Davis, @Alex Craig, @Chris Clothier) and keep my investment target on A and B properties. I’m certainly open to reviewing areas like Frayser if those with active experience managing properties successfully in that area would be willing to share their raw results.

  • Alex CraigBusiness Member
    Real Estate Professional · Memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    @Joseph S. if you were looking for a turnkey provider that operates excellent and 38127,  then reach out to Terry Kerr's team at Midsouth homebuyers.  He has been very successful in Frasyer  and I would recommend his team. 

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.