Nightmare Tenant Featured on Local Television and Has a Website

Sioux Falls, South Dakota
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Nightmare Tenant Featured on Local Television and Has a Website

Joe SplitrockPro Member
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Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes

Last night on the news there was a story about nightmare tenants George Zimmer and Jennifer Zimmer. They have been screwing landlords in Sioux Falls, Florida and possibly Chicago for years. I heard the name and realized they applied to rent a house from me back in 2013. Thankfully I didn't rent to them. On paper they looked great. Two long term house rentals at or above my house rent. Over $85K for income, no pets. They were both very nice, well dressed and well spoken. I caught them lying about multiple things on their application:

- Fake landlord phone number. I could tell it wasn't a landlord because I asked leading questions that were wrong and they agreed. Clearly someone trying to vouch for them.

- Last address didn't exist when I pulled it up on Google maps. I drove down the street and there is no house by that address number.

- Addresses on their drivers license didn't match their application addresses even though they were renewed during that time.

- Facebook posts said they were moving back from Florida, but they told me a different story. I also saw on Facebook that their son was into pot and they owned a dog that they didn't disclose on the application.

I denied them quickly and they tried to lie their way out of it. I simply told them I do not rent to people who lie on their application and hung up. Now I see on the news that they have been through 2 or 3 houses since then and have been evicted from two of them. In one house they had three dogs and several cats. The houses are filled with animal poop and pee. Owners need to remove all flooring and do thousands in repairs. Yet, people keep renting to them! There is way too much trust in Sioux Falls. These people are so bad that they have a website dedicated to all the people they have screwed. They have even posted comments on the website trying to deny it. They were JUST evicted so they are house shopping. Beware and spread the word to other landlords in Sioux Falls.

News story with camera footage of the disaster at their last house:

http://www.ksfy.com/content/news/Sioux-Falls-rental-property-destroyed-411830335.html

They are so bad they have their own website where landlords can share their stories:

http://thezimmerexperience.weebly.com/#/

In some ways I feel lucky that I dodged a bullet, but in business luck only comes to the prepared. Our screening process saved us.

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Thomas S.
Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
9y

Professional tenants are becoming more and more common. In my area they are very common and usually target SFHs.

Something landlords should always keep in mind is that the purpose of screening is to find reasons to reject applicants, it requires detective work beyond simply reading a credit score. Always assume every applicant is lying and your purpose in screening is to find the lies.

Nice job screening them out JOE. It's just too bad we can't actually get these people charged with a criminal offense.  

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  • Pete Krentz
    Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 59 posts · 20 votes
    9y

    You were lucky indeed. And they are exactly why every tenant needs to be thoroughly screened!

    1Reply
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
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    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    @Joe Splitrock Most people use a PO Box on their drivers license for the security reasons.

    It was a physical street address in town. I am not sure you can even use a PO Box in South Dakota on your drivers license. The point is that they claimed to have been living at one address, but their license showed a different address. You can learn a lot by just looking at a driver license. I get tenants who drive up to look at a house and it turns out they don't even have a license, just a state ID card. I don't rent to people who lie or break the law.

    1Reply
  • Jeff Brower
    Real Estate Agent · Willoughby, OH · Member since 2014 · 560 posts · 690 votes
    9y

    Can you give some examples of the leading questions that you asked when you called their 'previous landlord'? Great idea! And smart to check on facebook btw. People don't know how much the public can see when they post things.

    1Reply
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
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    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Jeff Brower:

    Can you give some examples of the leading questions that you asked when you called their 'previous landlord'? Great idea! And smart to check on facebook btw. People don't know how much the public can see when they post things.

    The first thing I do when get a landlord phone reference is Google the name and phone number. If it is a management company, I find their office phone number online and call that number instead of the manager 'unverified' cell phone number. Sometimes the cell numbers show up in Google linked to the manager owner. You can find them on LinkedIn or Facebook and see they are real person.

    In this case, I couldn't find the person or verify the phone number. That left me suspicious before I even called. I always assume people are lying and try to prove they are not. So I called the number and told the guy I wanted to verify information. I gave the wrong rent amount and he said, yes that was correct. I gave the wrong move-in year and he said yes that was correct. At that point it seemed he was just going to agree with whatever I said. That means either he was their landlord and wanted them out of the house or he was a friend pretending to be their landlord. I called the number later that day again and got a voice mail with a totally different name on it.

    10Reply
  • Jeff Brower
    Real Estate Agent · Willoughby, OH · Member since 2014 · 560 posts · 690 votes
    9y

    Nice! Im sure there are many ways to work them into a corner on the phone. I have heard about people searching for an outside number for employment listed, but never for a previous landlord. Great tip! Thanks.

    0Reply
  • Dennis Jones
    New York City, NY · Member since 2017 · 24 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    Great tips by @Joe Splitrock! Very helpful to newbie landlords like me.

    2Reply
  • Chinmay J.
    Investor · Northern, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 904 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
    Originally posted by @Jeff Brower:

    Can you give some examples of the leading questions that you asked when you called their 'previous landlord'? Great idea! And smart to check on facebook btw. People don't know how much the public can see when they post things.

    The first thing I do when get a landlord phone reference is Google the name and phone number. If it is a management company, I find their office phone number online and call that number instead of the manager 'unverified' cell phone number. Sometimes the cell numbers show up in Google linked to the manager owner. You can find them on LinkedIn or Facebook and see they are real person.

    In this case, I couldn't find the person or verify the phone number. That left me suspicious before I even called. I always assume people are lying and try to prove they are not. So I called the number and told the guy I wanted to verify information. I gave the wrong rent amount and he said, yes that was correct. I gave the wrong move-in year and he said yes that was correct. At that point it seemed he was just going to agree with whatever I said. That means either he was their landlord and wanted them out of the house or he was a friend pretending to be their landlord. I called the number later that day again and got a voice mail with a totally different name on it.

     Awesome !!! My mom always did that when I was a kid to catch me in a lie. lol

    2Reply
  • Rob Lane
    Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2016 · 91 posts · 78 votes
    9y

    Ive certainly become more strict on who I lease to.  Ive been doing this for over 20 years and got my first big burn by a tenant.  My first lawsuit too if I can find them.  Same kind of story, animal feces etc. terrible.  These people are very good at staying hidden and Im married to a cop.  People can be real bad sometimes.  Its a shame.    

    0Reply
  • Michael Boyer
    Investor · Juneau, AK · Member since 2015 · 980 posts · 741 votes
    9y

    Your detective work paid off...you screened them out. Good work.

    The professional tenants seem to find the least careful or most trusting landlords and exploit small gaps in the screening process and squeeze through..

    The red flags or things that don't make sense in the overall "tenant story" should be followed up on. How often does the unexplained item, inconsistency or suspect reference result in a "nice surprise". 

    You have to take a "what if" or "worst case" approach and protect yourself for sure. Good cautionary tale.

    2Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    Professional tenants are becoming more and more common. In my area they are very common and usually target SFHs.

    Something landlords should always keep in mind is that the purpose of screening is to find reasons to reject applicants, it requires detective work beyond simply reading a credit score. Always assume every applicant is lying and your purpose in screening is to find the lies.

    Nice job screening them out JOE. It's just too bad we can't actually get these people charged with a criminal offense.  

    5Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Account Closed  most state do not allow PO box's  I guess FLA is an outlier..

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    2Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Joe Splitrock  good catch.

    having been in the finance side of distressed assets for more than a few decades I see this stuff routinely.. you should see the 5 hoarder houses I bought this year... stuffed to the rafters with stuff stink so bad you need a bunny suit.. LOL.

    but when its a rental its really.. bad I had one in Mississippi that was so bad my insurance actually covered it as willful distruction not typical tenant turn over or wear and tear.. 45k in damage  had to take the house down to the studs.

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Joe Splitrock  and on the 45k one the insurance company did file criminal charges.

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    1Reply
  • Jerry Miller
    Virtual Assistant · Hollywood, FL · Member since 2016 · 60 posts · 11 votes
    9y

    I hope First time Landlords here on BP  see Joe SplitRock's post.  Newbies this is great advice on due diligence when vetting a possible tenant. When I started, computers were prevalent but not the free tools available now to research. I started with this detective work by going to the court house. 

    I always tell people if you don't have a PM to check them selves and use Joe's post as a a starting point. It takes some looking but county and state sites *.gov* have most of what you need for people and properties. Always follow up but many of  applicants won't pass the sniff test. Then you can concentrate on the remaining candidates and use a finer filter.

    1Reply
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
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    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    9y

    @Thomas S. you are both right that a tenant like this is a major criminal and they can/should be prosecuted. In this case they have done enough that the law is starting to catch up with them. George Zimmer was recently in court on fraud charges. Every local TV station and social media is hounding them, so this is all escalating. More landlords are coming forward. 

    Lies are a house of cards and once they start falling, it all collapses. My guess is the kids will be taken away and one or both parents will end up in jail. Thankfully this last landlord called the TV stations and decided he wasn't going to let this happen to anyone else. I guess they messed with the wrong person.

    0Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Joe Splitrock   off to a new state they go  :)

    when I was running my HML shop I used an accurant product that was a fraud detection worked like a charm put in info they fill in on app.. if public records and utl bills don't jive you get a red flag back took about 60 seconds to compute. I suppose big prop management companies could get this.. private folks cannot.

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    0Reply
  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    @Joe Splitrock good job avoiding a major headache!

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    1Reply
  • Jonathan Johnson
    Rental Property Investor · Charleston, WV · Member since 2013 · 262 posts · 109 votes
    9y

    @Joe Splitrock Thank you for this post and the articles/news. It's very helpful for aquiring the backbone to screen hard.

    Question: For legal reasons, do you always need a valid reason for rejecting an application? Do you need to respond to them? I read often that landlords put the background checks/credit checks/income verification in an envelope and mail it to the applicants; are you supposed to do that? Can you just ignore the application and move on to better ones? 

    I guess I just am timid about which discriminations are legal/illegal. I understand the race/religion/sex anit-discrimination, but what about the stuff you find on Facebook? Or if they've had a history of drugs?

    1Reply
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
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    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Jonathan Johnson:

    @Joe Splitrock Thank you for this post and the articles/news. It's very helpful for aquiring the backbone to screen hard.

    Question: For legal reasons, do you always need a valid reason for rejecting an application? Do you need to respond to them? I read often that landlords put the background checks/credit checks/income verification in an envelope and mail it to the applicants; are you supposed to do that? Can you just ignore the application and move on to better ones? 

    I guess I just am timid about which discriminations are legal/illegal. I understand the race/religion/sex anit-discrimination, but what about the stuff you find on Facebook? Or if they've had a history of drugs?

    Requirements vary by state, but yes you need a valid reason for rejecting an applicant. I always let the applicant know if they are denied as fast as possible, out of respect so they can keep looking. Most common reason I deny is due to income not being sufficient. Most applicants are good people, they just don't make enough money for the rent level. I always tell someone the reason for denial.

    I would recommend you contact your local fair housing authority and see if they offer classes or have information to avoid discrimination. 

    I have never denied anyone due to Facebook. It is just one tool to verify information. For example if I saw a dog on their Facebook page, but none on the application, I would ask them to explain. The dog may be going to stay with a relative. In this case there were so many other problems, that a dog were the least of their concerns. 

    1Reply
  • Thomas Williamson
    Investor · atlanta , GA · Member since 2012 · 287 posts · 148 votes
    9y

    Great job, good vetting process!  I too have had people give me names and numbers for people that the applicant's said we're their current landlords.  Most of the time you can tell if the person is really a landlord by the way they answer questions.  If they just say the people are great, never had any problems with them, and they're moving because of something we did (meaning the landlord) then that alone should be a red flag.  At least start investigating the alleged current landlord more.

    Again great job on your vetting process!

    1Reply
  • Mark Pavlak
    Investor · Venice, FL · Member since 2016 · 21 posts · 5 votes
    9y

    Wow..... thanks everybody. I am new to owning rentals. Lots of good info here, even if it is painful.

    0Reply
  • Tami DuBose
    Lender · Prairieville, LA · Member since 2014 · 146 posts · 114 votes
    9y

    I love these stories. I love vetting tenants, vetting borrowers, vetting deals. I always thought it would be cool to be a private investigator. Now, I'm doing it without a license. I've called employers, family members, the SEC, looked at public records, & all the social media outlets. If my gut tingles, I know I'm going to 'cut' them. I just like backing up my gut.

    Of course, I have made some monster mistakes - despite my gut.

    It's part of the real estate investor journey. And, without these mistakes, I wouldn't have much to talk about at parties.

    3Reply
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
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    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    9y

    @Tami DuBose I agree with you that it is interesting to dig in and investigate people. There is so much information out there. In this story, they have interviewed several landlords who keep saying, "I don't know how the got through the screening, they are good." The truth is they are not good, they are just liars and the landlords are not making much effort. They are not checking social media, not running the name through Google and they are definitely not doing credit, eviction checks or criminal checks. The sad thing is with technology, none of this really even hard to do.

    I have had plenty of problems as a landlord including tenants leaving a property in bad condition. Every mistake I have made makes it easier to say NO to the next person that I have a bad feeling about. I think landlords are very afraid of vacancy, but a bad tenant costs more than leaving the property vacant for months.

    1Reply
  • Deanna McCormick
    Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    The video is a landlord nightmare, glad you avoided it and glad the guy that got stuck actually had the guts to go on TV and discuss his case.

    The courts are slow to action and even with screening a tenant can go off the deep end and cause trouble. 

    Like most of us know Pay or Quits after 3 days of not getting rent payments, Follow the law and evict. Pay attention to your property and be on utility bills if power, water, or gas is shut off's so your aware of utility non-payment .

    1Reply
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
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    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Deanna McCormick:

    The video is a landlord nightmare, glad you avoided it and glad the guy that got stuck actually had the guts to go on TV and discuss his case.

    The courts are slow to action and even with screening a tenant can go off the deep end and cause trouble. 

    Like most of us know Pay or Quits after 3 days of not getting rent payments, Follow the law and evict. Pay attention to your property and be on utility bills if power, water, or gas is shut off's so your aware of utility non-payment .

    Yes, great advice on the utilities. I get notified if the gas or electric is being shut off. That is a good sign the tenant is in trouble. In cold climates, without gas or electric in the winter, your property is at risk. I have a clause in my lease that tenants must maintain utilities in the property. That could be used as a violation in an eviction proceedings. One common theme in the Zimmer story is landlords who took fast action to evict sustained lower damages.

    You are right that some people can screen fine and even be good tenants for years before having trouble. I accept the fact that I will have some of those. It is the ones who are trouble from day one that I work hard to avoid.

    Every landlord should watch videos of destruction like this as a reminder that vacancy is better than accepting a bad tenant.

    1Reply
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